305K - Report Data Definitions - Adding a Table

Hello,



I duplicated the JobPickL data definition with the goal of adding

PartLot to the definition.



I need to pull FirstRefDate and LastRefDate into the report.



I added the PartLot table but cannot get the data to pull in.



I tried two methods to establish a relationship between JobBin and

PartLot. The first was by creating a new relationship between the two

tables with the field relationship of Company, PartNum, and LotNum. When

this didn't work, I deleted the relationship and specified table

criteria that effectively did the same thing as the relationship.



In both cases, the resulting XML files does define PartLot as a table,

but there are no records created for PartLot.



Any ideas what I might be missing?



I'm wondering if the problem is because JobBin is not really a table.



Joe Rojas

Information Technology Manager

Symmetry Medical New Bedford

P: 508.998.4575

M:508.838.4717

F:508.995.9597

joe.rojas@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn
Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...> wrote:


From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@...>
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM








All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@... <mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRslbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6DEGNPdlyNkQ==> to report this email
as spam.



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry, didnt mean to simplify but there are a lot of people upon go live who cant figure out where the credit hold checkbox is!
Â
There's no set rule, it depends on your order sizes and generally your clients AR history. Most of my clients include open orders in the limit but depending upon the frequency of orders versus your terms you have to accept that you may have to bump the credit limit up to recognize the order frequency within say a net30 if thats what your terms are
Â
This is something your AR people will have to determine. Obviously setting the limits too closely will give you the problem you are experiencing right now which is constant over credit limit
Perhaps creating a dashboard that shows customer, terms, current receivables, credit limit, and open orders would allow them to open up the credit limits somewhat as long as they can monitor daily potential problem customers?

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, LeAnn Marruffo <lmarruffo@...> wrote:


From: LeAnn Marruffo <lmarruffo@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:48 PM








Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@steren. com
<mailto:lmarruffo% 40steren. com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@steren. com <mailto:lmarruffo% 40steren. com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Click here
<https://www. mailcontrol. com/sr/wQw0zmjPo HdJTZGyOCrrhg= =
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRs lbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6 DEGNPdlyNkQ= => to report this email
as spam.

This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LeAnn,
It sounds as though you just need to review and possibly increase the Credit Limit amounts a bit.
I would suggest including Open Orders in the available credit. This could prevent your firm from incurring additional costs for Purchases/Production should a customer fall behind.

Sincerely,


Stephen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is a known bug in 407 (we are on 407b) where the Credit Total is wrong. It seems that it does not recalculate the total as orders are shipped – resulting in Vantage thinking there are more open order dollars than there actually are. This did not seem to happen with all customers – just some. (I think this issue was there is some prior versions as well – but I am not sure.)

SCR: 1178631PSC

There is a conversion program that can be run – but it is a one-time fix – you may need to run it again if things go out of whack.

Good Luck!
Mark

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Schaefer <sschaefer323@...> wrote:
>
> LeAnn,
> It sounds as though you just need to review and possibly increase the Credit Limit amounts a bit.
> I would suggest including Open Orders in the available credit. This could prevent your firm from incurring additional costs for Purchases/Production should a customer fall behind.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Stephen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I guess my first questions would be, why do you have credit limits? Is
there a business reason for those credit limits? Are all customers on
credit limits or just new customers?



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@... <mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRslbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6DEGNPdlyNkQ==> to report this email
as spam.

This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc.
www.surfcontrol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

Very good point.

- leAnn





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








I guess my first questions would be, why do you have credit limits? Is
there a business reason for those credit limits? Are all customers on
credit limits or just new customers?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@... <mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRslbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6DEGNPdlyNkQ==> to report this email
as spam.

This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc.
www.surfcontrol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We don't include open orders, and instead implemented a BPM and some UI customizations that prevent us from shipping to customers where the value of the open order plus the value of the proposed shipment exceeds the customer credit limit. Finance can override this with a checkbox on the OrderRelease. Daily planning and review of potential shipments is also necessary.

Credit gets updated at invoicing, so you can ship and ship, but until you run the invoice capture routine you won't update the available credit.

That's how we do it at least.

I got excellent help here with the BPMs and I'm willing to provide them if necessary.

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy

Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

Very good point.

- leAnn





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








I guess my first questions would be, why do you have credit limits? Is
there a business reason for those credit limits? Are all customers on
credit limits or just new customers?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@... <mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRslbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6DEGNPdlyNkQ==> to report this email
as spam.

This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc.
www.surfcontrol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
When we were on 407, we had to run Mass Credit Information Update on a
regular basis so the Customer Credit would recalculate. This comes from the
Actions menu in Customer Credit Manager.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy








Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

Very good point.

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

I guess my first questions would be, why do you have credit limits? Is
there a business reason for those credit limits? Are all customers on
credit limits or just new customers?

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Thank you- the problem is the way we calculate credit limit- almost all
orders go on hold. I've got to find a model that fits our business
better for setting credit limit while including open orders, or we have
to choose not to include open orders, and accept what that means. Until
that is done, the messages are making everyone nuts.

How do most companies configure this? Do they include all open
orders? Or do they set up a model that allows sufficient limit for open
credit including open orders? I'm not finance- not even a little, other
than being able to click the keys for Vantage. Learning fast, but not
fast enough to save us from the stupid credit messages...

Thanks!

- leAnn

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Mark Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Leann, not sure how you loaded your customers but they automatically go
on credit hold when you set them up. Go to the billing/credit tab and
uncheck the credit hold checkbox

--- On Tue, 7/7/09, leann_37 <lmarruffo@...
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> > wrote:

From: leann_37 <lmarruffo@... <mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com>
<mailto:lmarruffo%40steren.com> >
Subject: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks
crazy
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:31 PM

All,
Obviously, we need a lesson in how to configure so that not everything
goes on credit hold. We get the message constantly, and it's making our
folks nuts. Does anyone have a way to reduce the number of messages from
credit hold? (Just to tide us over while we learn to model credit
better...)Every time you make a change to a release, add a release, add
a line...
Thanks in advance!
leAnn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Click here
<https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg==
zsjdioKgl6w3wcjKVRslbitkoGCgjNSZ3K6DEGNPdlyNkQ==> to report this email
as spam.

This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc.
www.surfcontrol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
limit is actually a zero (0) value.



Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.



Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?



Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
sense.



Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com







________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM



Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well, we have credit limits with all of our customers. Finance sets credit limits based on past payment history, corporate policy, and knowledge of the customer's situation. Our auditors also want to see details of our policies and how we follow them.

Given the current economic situation, I don't think I'd want to extend unlimited credit to my customers. Sending someone a million dollars worth of product with no possibility of getting paid isn't a good way to run a business. :-)

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:58 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy

Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
limit is actually a zero (0) value.



Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.



Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?



Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
sense.



Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com







________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM



Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
As a finance person who has been a credit manager, I will say that there can be good reasons for setting credit limits on a customer no matter how long you have been doing business with them. Among those reasons are:


- Even a good customer can get into financial difficulty. If you are not paying attention, it can happen overnight. A customer that has been paying its bills on time can all of a sudden stop paying.


- Some customers may become too large a part of your business if you don't put some limits on. This really is part of company culture. Some companies will be very uncomfortable if one customer is 10% or more of their sales. Other companies exist to serve just one customer. If you don't feel comfortable with the exposure, then setting credit limits is one way to prevent any customer from being too big.

I will definitely agree with you that the finance people should be able to satisfactorily explain the rationale for whatever credit limits they want to place, and all credit limits should be regularly reviewed. Also, never set credit limits to prevent any chance of a credit loss. I know of only one way to avoid all credit losses and that is to not sell on credit. For most companies, not selling on credit means not selling at all, and, thus, going out of business.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>


From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy





Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
limit is actually a zero (0) value.

Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.

Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?

Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM

Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello,



I duplicated the JobPickL data definition with the goal of adding
PartLot to the definition.

I need to pull FirstRefDate and LastRefDate into the report.



I added the PartLot table but cannot get the data to pull in.

I tried two methods to establish a relationship between JobBin and
PartLot. The first was by creating a new relationship between the two
tables with the field relationship of Company, PartNum, and LotNum. When
this didn't work, I deleted the relationship and specified table
criteria that effectively did the same thing as the relationship.



In both cases, the resulting XML files does define PartLot as a table,
but there are no records created for PartLot.



Any ideas what I might be missing?

I'm wondering if the problem is because JobBin is not really a table.



Joe Rojas

Information Technology Manager

Symmetry Medical New Bedford

P: 508.998.4575

M:508.838.4717

F:508.995.9597

joe.rojas@... <mailto:joe.rojas@...>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I created a dashboard based on a query called CreditHoldDueToShipToday
just for this purpose. It shows the order, customer, credit hold and
credit override and a few other fields.



Our AR person reviews the dashboard throughout the day and tries to get
orders shipped whenever possible via the Credit OverRide.



I also added a context menu for Customer Credit Manager so she can
right-click from the dashboard and get directly to the OverRide form.



Randy Weber



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








As a finance person who has been a credit manager, I will say that there
can be good reasons for setting credit limits on a customer no matter
how long you have been doing business with them. Among those reasons
are:

- Even a good customer can get into financial difficulty. If you are not
paying attention, it can happen overnight. A customer that has been
paying its bills on time can all of a sudden stop paying.

- Some customers may become too large a part of your business if you
don't put some limits on. This really is part of company culture. Some
companies will be very uncomfortable if one customer is 10% or more of
their sales. Other companies exist to serve just one customer. If you
don't feel comfortable with the exposure, then setting credit limits is
one way to prevent any customer from being too big.

I will definitely agree with you that the finance people should be able
to satisfactorily explain the rationale for whatever credit limits they
want to place, and all credit limits should be regularly reviewed. Also,
never set credit limits to prevent any chance of a credit loss. I know
of only one way to avoid all credit losses and that is to not sell on
credit. For most companies, not selling on credit means not selling at
all, and, thus, going out of business.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
limit is actually a zero (0) value.

Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.

Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?

Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM

Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That sounds like a great process Randy and similar to what we do (although my team uses a crystal report that they review once/day for likely shipments). I think one of the points here is that you have to actively manage the process. The system can't manage it for you, and I'm not sure you want to cede control of this kind of activity too heavily to any piece of software.

-bws

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Weber
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:43 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my folks crazy

I created a dashboard based on a query called CreditHoldDueToShipToday
just for this purpose. It shows the order, customer, credit hold and
credit override and a few other fields.



Our AR person reviews the dashboard throughout the day and tries to get
orders shipped whenever possible via the Credit OverRide.



I also added a context menu for Customer Credit Manager so she can
right-click from the dashboard and get directly to the OverRide form.



Randy Weber



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Thomas Rose
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy








As a finance person who has been a credit manager, I will say that there
can be good reasons for setting credit limits on a customer no matter
how long you have been doing business with them. Among those reasons
are:

- Even a good customer can get into financial difficulty. If you are not
paying attention, it can happen overnight. A customer that has been
paying its bills on time can all of a sudden stop paying.

- Some customers may become too large a part of your business if you
don't put some limits on. This really is part of company culture. Some
companies will be very uncomfortable if one customer is 10% or more of
their sales. Other companies exist to serve just one customer. If you
don't feel comfortable with the exposure, then setting credit limits is
one way to prevent any customer from being too big.

I will definitely agree with you that the finance people should be able
to satisfactorily explain the rationale for whatever credit limits they
want to place, and all credit limits should be regularly reviewed. Also,
never set credit limits to prevent any chance of a credit loss. I know
of only one way to avoid all credit losses and that is to not sell on
credit. For most companies, not selling on credit means not selling at
all, and, thus, going out of business.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of CharlieSmith
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
folks crazy

Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
limit is actually a zero (0) value.

Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.

Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?

Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf
Of LeAnn Marruffo
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM

Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
stop flat total, I'm not so sure.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Do you have the dashboard cose you can post?





--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Weber" <rweber@...> wrote:
>
> I created a dashboard based on a query called CreditHoldDueToShipToday
> just for this purpose. It shows the order, customer, credit hold and
> credit override and a few other fields.
>
>
>
> Our AR person reviews the dashboard throughout the day and tries to get
> orders shipped whenever possible via the Credit OverRide.
>
>
>
> I also added a context menu for Customer Credit Manager so she can
> right-click from the dashboard and get directly to the OverRide form.
>
>
>
> Randy Weber
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Thomas Rose
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:36 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
> folks crazy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As a finance person who has been a credit manager, I will say that there
> can be good reasons for setting credit limits on a customer no matter
> how long you have been doing business with them. Among those reasons
> are:
>
> - Even a good customer can get into financial difficulty. If you are not
> paying attention, it can happen overnight. A customer that has been
> paying its bills on time can all of a sudden stop paying.
>
> - Some customers may become too large a part of your business if you
> don't put some limits on. This really is part of company culture. Some
> companies will be very uncomfortable if one customer is 10% or more of
> their sales. Other companies exist to serve just one customer. If you
> don't feel comfortable with the exposure, then setting credit limits is
> one way to prevent any customer from being too big.
>
> I will definitely agree with you that the finance people should be able
> to satisfactorily explain the rationale for whatever credit limits they
> want to place, and all credit limits should be regularly reviewed. Also,
> never set credit limits to prevent any chance of a credit loss. I know
> of only one way to avoid all credit losses and that is to not sell on
> credit. For most companies, not selling on credit means not selling at
> all, and, thus, going out of business.
>
> Thom Rose
> Controller
> Electric Mirror LLC
> HOTEL LUXURY
>
> "The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"
>
> T 425 776-4946
> A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
> www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of CharlieSmith
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:58 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] 407a customer credit hold message is making my
> folks crazy
>
> Ask the question, why is there a credit limit to begin with. If you have
> been doing business with someone for over 5 years, why would you want to
> have a credit limit. If you have been doing business with a customer for
> 5 days or 5 weeks, yes maybe. Remember that no (or unlimited) credit
> limit is actually a zero (0) value.
>
> Secondly who is reviewing these credit limits? Are they adding the
> review dates? If so, create a dashboard for those that need review or
> are to be reviewed in the next x days or weeks.
>
> Question this with the Financial management. "Always done this" is not a
> good answer. Have them give you the business case for the business need.
> Is the business experiencing a number of defaults? What is the reason
> for the defaults. Who checks the D&B on new customers? At what point
> should you stop worrying about the customer and credit issues?
>
> Don't wuss out. Ask the hard questions and require answers that make
> sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf
> Of LeAnn Marruffo
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:20 PM
>
> Well, and there it is. I'm trying to figure out if we have these set
> simply because "we've always done this" or because there is a business
> process driving it. I'm spending some time today with our A/R, learning
> the business process better, so I can recommend something for us to use
> going forward. If we don't include open orders, it will be a limit on
> invoice dollars alone- that should be good enough? If a customer gets to
> a point where we don't even want to take an order, that's when we would
> put them on hard stop- credit hold. Not necessarily when they are within
> terms. I think if we had a longer lead time and more capabilities with
> credit horizon, the credit limit would make more sense. But as a hard
> stop flat total, I'm not so sure.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>