6.1 to 8.0 Blank Title 65056

system · June 16, 2008, 9:06am

I don't know if this was ever resolved, but...
https://epicweb.epicor.com/Education/Manufacturing/Document%20Library/Feature%20Summary/Feature%20Summary%20-%20Vantage%208.03.405/toc.fs_8_03.htm
The page above offers a link to a PDF for a Feature Summary from 6.1 to
8.00 and a separate one for 6.X to 8.03.
Might be worth a look for those still wondering.
Aaron Hoyt
Vantage Plastics

Jim Frice wrote:

>
> Have you tried looking in the Help under System Managemen> What's new>
> there are choices for 6.x to 8.0 as well as 8.03 try to format changes
> entries.
>
> Jim
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf
> Of Judy Havlik
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:17 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0
>
> It sounds like we're nearly in the same place in that I've been
> walking around in 8.03 since last week and I believe they may be
> working on getting 8.03.404B functional today...at least that's what
> I heard through the grapevine. The look and functionality of 8.03
> versus 6.1 is obvious. However, it's the little things you read in
> the documentation (8.0 to 8.03.404) that become important...such as
> we can finally enter a quantity of xxx,xxx,xxx and we can
> enter "quantity per" 9 places to the right of the decimal. That's
> huge for us. This is why I'd like to read the 6.1 to 8.0 material.
>
> It's gutsy to re-implement...I'm hoping they'll let us do a suitably
> timed training period and parallel run...reimplementation would be
> out of the question here. What I'm most afraid of is they'll do with
> this what they did when we went from 4 to 6...you just come in one
> morning and it's done...now deal with it. Oh, what a mess.
>
> I'll be anxious to stay in touch with you Todd. From what I've seen
> in 8.03 so far, it seems like it will be worth some of the headaches
> for a while...
>
> Sincerely,
> Judy Havlik
> judy.havlik@... <mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
> <mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
> Plitek, L.L.C.
> Des Plaines, IL
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , Todd
> Caughey <caugheyt@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am sure I had something like that way back when 8.0 first came
> out....or perhaps it was just PPT slides on the Perspectives CD back
> when 8.0 was code named Sonoma. Now this is so far in the past it's
> as if the world of 6.1 is no longer important. When you first posted
> the request I was very tempted to do a "me too". As of late last
> week I finally got a test server fired up with 8.03 and am running
> the canned training database for key users to play with and see for
> themselves the interface differences. You can tell them and tell
> them until blue in the face but nothing beats hands-on experience to
> explain grid entry or pin/un-pin sheets & tabs, etc.....
> >
> > I just received the 8.03.400 disks yesterday so will bump up to
> that ASAP since that is what we will re-implement (unless 9.0 is
> better and available by then) I say re-implement because we plan to
> do that from scratch and then see what data we can import with
> Service Connect. We are doing parallel "learn 8.x" and map business
> processes projects so we can do as much customization as we can up-
> front and go live (someday) on a system that truly fits us now...not
> the company of 8 years ago when we implemented 4.0.
> >
> > I will look around for an old Perspectives presentation and send it
> off-list if I find anything but for us I think the best difference
> awareness tool will be the training database.
> >
> > What I might be more interested in from people who have migrated
> already is an anti-feature summary.....such as recent comments about
> screen navigation requiring more clicks, slowness and things that
> worked OK in 6.1 but do not in 8.x. Based on many of the comments in
> group postings I am still not confident that the feature benefits
> outweigh the negative changes (not to mention the re-implement
> effort)....even in the much improved 8.03.400 version.
> >
> > -Todd C.
> >
> > PS...based on my test server I do have to say the client install is
> WAY better in 8.03. Much too easy. ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of Judy Havlik
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:21 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0
> >
> >
> > Is it because there is no such thing as a Feature summary that
> > describes the differences between 6.1 and 8.0 that I haven't gotten
> a
> > response.
> >
> > How did those of you who upgraded from 6.1 to 8.0 know that it had
> > the "bells and whistles" you were looking for if nothing was in
> > writing?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Judy Havlik
> > judy.havlik@...<mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "Judy Havlik" <judy.havlik@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to
> > 8.0.
> > > I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
> > > beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on
> > 6.1.
> > >
> > > I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please
> > direct me
> > > where I can find it.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks
> > for
> > > your help.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Judy Havlik
> > > Plitek, L.L.C.
> > > judy.havlik@
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · May 20, 2008, 11:44am

Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to 8.0.
I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on 6.1.

I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please direct me
where I can find it.

Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks for
your help.

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
Plitek, L.L.C.
judy.havlik@...

system · May 20, 2008, 3:20pm

Is it because there is no such thing as a Feature summary that
describes the differences between 6.1 and 8.0 that I haven't gotten a
response.

How did those of you who upgraded from 6.1 to 8.0 know that it had
the "bells and whistles" you were looking for if nothing was in
writing?

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
judy.havlik@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Havlik" <judy.havlik@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to
8.0.
> I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
> beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on
6.1.
>
> I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please
direct me
> where I can find it.
>
> Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks
for
> your help.
>
> Sincerely,
> Judy Havlik
> Plitek, L.L.C.
> judy.havlik@...
>

system · May 20, 2008, 3:49pm

I am sure I had something like that way back when 8.0 first came out....or perhaps it was just PPT slides on the Perspectives CD back when 8.0 was code named Sonoma. Now this is so far in the past it's as if the world of 6.1 is no longer important. When you first posted the request I was very tempted to do a "me too". As of late last week I finally got a test server fired up with 8.03 and am running the canned training database for key users to play with and see for themselves the interface differences. You can tell them and tell them until blue in the face but nothing beats hands-on experience to explain grid entry or pin/un-pin sheets & tabs, etc.....

I just received the 8.03.400 disks yesterday so will bump up to that ASAP since that is what we will re-implement (unless 9.0 is better and available by then) I say re-implement because we plan to do that from scratch and then see what data we can import with Service Connect. We are doing parallel "learn 8.x" and map business processes projects so we can do as much customization as we can up-front and go live (someday) on a system that truly fits us now...not the company of 8 years ago when we implemented 4.0.

I will look around for an old Perspectives presentation and send it off-list if I find anything but for us I think the best difference awareness tool will be the training database.

What I might be more interested in from people who have migrated already is an anti-feature summary.....such as recent comments about screen navigation requiring more clicks, slowness and things that worked OK in 6.1 but do not in 8.x. Based on many of the comments in group postings I am still not confident that the feature benefits outweigh the negative changes (not to mention the re-implement effort)....even in the much improved 8.03.400 version.

-Todd C.

PS...based on my test server I do have to say the client install is WAY better in 8.03. Much too easy. ;)

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Judy Havlik
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:21 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0

Is it because there is no such thing as a Feature summary that
describes the differences between 6.1 and 8.0 that I haven't gotten a
response.

How did those of you who upgraded from 6.1 to 8.0 know that it had
the "bells and whistles" you were looking for if nothing was in
writing?

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
judy.havlik@...<mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "Judy Havlik" <judy.havlik@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to
8.0.
> I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
> beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on
6.1.
>
> I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please
direct me
> where I can find it.
>
> Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks
for
> your help.
>
> Sincerely,
> Judy Havlik
> Plitek, L.L.C.
> judy.havlik@...
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · May 20, 2008, 4:17pm

It sounds like we're nearly in the same place in that I've been
walking around in 8.03 since last week and I believe they may be
working on getting 8.03.404B functional today...at least that's what
I heard through the grapevine. The look and functionality of 8.03
versus 6.1 is obvious. However, it's the little things you read in
the documentation (8.0 to 8.03.404) that become important...such as
we can finally enter a quantity of xxx,xxx,xxx and we can
enter "quantity per" 9 places to the right of the decimal. That's
huge for us. This is why I'd like to read the 6.1 to 8.0 material.

It's gutsy to re-implement...I'm hoping they'll let us do a suitably
timed training period and parallel run...reimplementation would be
out of the question here. What I'm most afraid of is they'll do with
this what they did when we went from 4 to 6...you just come in one
morning and it's done...now deal with it. Oh, what a mess.

I'll be anxious to stay in touch with you Todd. From what I've seen
in 8.03 so far, it seems like it will be worth some of the headaches
for a while...

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
judy.havlik@...
Plitek, L.L.C.
Des Plaines, IL

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Todd Caughey <caugheyt@...> wrote:
>
> I am sure I had something like that way back when 8.0 first came
out....or perhaps it was just PPT slides on the Perspectives CD back
when 8.0 was code named Sonoma. Now this is so far in the past it's
as if the world of 6.1 is no longer important. When you first posted
the request I was very tempted to do a "me too". As of late last
week I finally got a test server fired up with 8.03 and am running
the canned training database for key users to play with and see for
themselves the interface differences. You can tell them and tell
them until blue in the face but nothing beats hands-on experience to
explain grid entry or pin/un-pin sheets & tabs, etc.....
>
> I just received the 8.03.400 disks yesterday so will bump up to
that ASAP since that is what we will re-implement (unless 9.0 is
better and available by then) I say re-implement because we plan to
do that from scratch and then see what data we can import with
Service Connect. We are doing parallel "learn 8.x" and map business
processes projects so we can do as much customization as we can up-
front and go live (someday) on a system that truly fits us now...not
the company of 8 years ago when we implemented 4.0.
>
> I will look around for an old Perspectives presentation and send it
off-list if I find anything but for us I think the best difference
awareness tool will be the training database.
>
> What I might be more interested in from people who have migrated
already is an anti-feature summary.....such as recent comments about
screen navigation requiring more clicks, slowness and things that
worked OK in 6.1 but do not in 8.x. Based on many of the comments in
group postings I am still not confident that the feature benefits
outweigh the negative changes (not to mention the re-implement
effort)....even in the much improved 8.03.400 version.
>
> -Todd C.
>
> PS...based on my test server I do have to say the client install is
WAY better in 8.03. Much too easy. ;)
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Judy Havlik
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:21 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0
>
>
> Is it because there is no such thing as a Feature summary that
> describes the differences between 6.1 and 8.0 that I haven't gotten
a
> response.
>
> How did those of you who upgraded from 6.1 to 8.0 know that it had
> the "bells and whistles" you were looking for if nothing was in
> writing?
>
> Sincerely,
> Judy Havlik
> judy.havlik@...<mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com>, "Judy Havlik" <judy.havlik@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to
> 8.0.
> > I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
> > beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on
> 6.1.
> >
> > I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please
> direct me
> > where I can find it.
> >
> > Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks
> for
> > your help.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Judy Havlik
> > Plitek, L.L.C.
> > judy.havlik@
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

system · May 20, 2008, 4:27pm

Have you tried looking in the Help under System Managemen> What's new>
there are choices for 6.x to 8.0 as well as 8.03 try to format changes
entries.

Jim

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Judy Havlik
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:17 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0

It sounds like we're nearly in the same place in that I've been
walking around in 8.03 since last week and I believe they may be
working on getting 8.03.404B functional today...at least that's what
I heard through the grapevine. The look and functionality of 8.03
versus 6.1 is obvious. However, it's the little things you read in
the documentation (8.0 to 8.03.404) that become important...such as
we can finally enter a quantity of xxx,xxx,xxx and we can
enter "quantity per" 9 places to the right of the decimal. That's
huge for us. This is why I'd like to read the 6.1 to 8.0 material.

It's gutsy to re-implement...I'm hoping they'll let us do a suitably
timed training period and parallel run...reimplementation would be
out of the question here. What I'm most afraid of is they'll do with
this what they did when we went from 4 to 6...you just come in one
morning and it's done...now deal with it. Oh, what a mess.

I'll be anxious to stay in touch with you Todd. From what I've seen
in 8.03 so far, it seems like it will be worth some of the headaches
for a while...

Sincerely,
Judy Havlik
judy.havlik@... <mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
Plitek, L.L.C.
Des Plaines, IL

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , Todd
Caughey <caugheyt@...> wrote:

>
> I am sure I had something like that way back when 8.0 first came

out....or perhaps it was just PPT slides on the Perspectives CD back
when 8.0 was code named Sonoma. Now this is so far in the past it's
as if the world of 6.1 is no longer important. When you first posted
the request I was very tempted to do a "me too". As of late last
week I finally got a test server fired up with 8.03 and am running
the canned training database for key users to play with and see for
themselves the interface differences. You can tell them and tell
them until blue in the face but nothing beats hands-on experience to
explain grid entry or pin/un-pin sheets & tabs, etc.....

>
> I just received the 8.03.400 disks yesterday so will bump up to

that ASAP since that is what we will re-implement (unless 9.0 is
better and available by then) I say re-implement because we plan to
do that from scratch and then see what data we can import with
Service Connect. We are doing parallel "learn 8.x" and map business
processes projects so we can do as much customization as we can up-
front and go live (someday) on a system that truly fits us now...not
the company of 8 years ago when we implemented 4.0.

>
> I will look around for an old Perspectives presentation and send it

off-list if I find anything but for us I think the best difference
awareness tool will be the training database.

>
> What I might be more interested in from people who have migrated

already is an anti-feature summary.....such as recent comments about
screen navigation requiring more clicks, slowness and things that
worked OK in 6.1 but do not in 8.x. Based on many of the comments in
group postings I am still not confident that the feature benefits
outweigh the negative changes (not to mention the re-implement
effort)....even in the much improved 8.03.400 version.

>
> -Todd C.
>
> PS...based on my test server I do have to say the client install is

WAY better in 8.03. Much too easy. ;)

>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Judy Havlik

> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:21 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: 6.1 to 8.0
>
>
> Is it because there is no such thing as a Feature summary that
> describes the differences between 6.1 and 8.0 that I haven't gotten

a

> response.
>
> How did those of you who upgraded from 6.1 to 8.0 know that it had
> the "bells and whistles" you were looking for if nothing was in
> writing?
>
> Sincerely,
> Judy Havlik
> judy.havlik@...<mailto:judy.havlik%40plitek.com>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com>, "Judy Havlik" <judy.havlik@> wrote:

> >
> > Does anyone have a Feature Summary for the migration from 6.1 to
> 8.0.
> > I currently have one for 8.0 to 8.03.404 but feel it would be very
> > beneficial to see the 6.1 to 8.0 information first, since we're on
> 6.1.
> >
> > I looked in the Files area...if I missed it I'm sorry, please
> direct me
> > where I can find it.
> >
> > Otherwise, maybe someone has a .pdf they can send to me? Thanks
> for
> > your help.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Judy Havlik
> > Plitek, L.L.C.
> > judy.havlik@
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · May 20, 2008, 6:16pm

Due to certain restrictions, I've been tasked with closing work-orders
for some of our jobs, so I've spent a few days "training" with the
person who normally closes WOs. Here's what it takes to close a job in
Vantage - please let me know if this sounds excessive to any of you.
Items with capital letters are steps I'm particularly concerned with:

a) Check NC list to verify no NCs/scrap exists for the work-order
B) For each machining operation (mill/turn/etc), compare quantities on
hand-written job logs to quantities entered into Vantage labor-entry
B2) If different, stop processing and forward to shop-floor traffic
coordinator to correct
C) For each machining operation, compare start/end times on hand-written
job logs to times entered into Vantage labor-entry
C2) If different (beyond more than a couple of minutes), stop
processing and forward to shop-floor asst. manager to correct
D) In "Job Entry," un-release/un-engineer part and update setup and
production-per-machine values
d2) On custom VBForm, update other time fields (program time,
etc...)
d3) Re-enable release/engineer checkmarks
D4) Close the "Job Entry" window, entering "1" as the value for the
comment
e) "Job Closing" - close the job
f) Print paper copy of "Production for a Job" to file with completed
work-order

Granted, it doesn't seem like a lot when its written out like this, but
think of it this way: Some jobs have multiple machining operations, and
for some of the jobs we are running lots of tens of thousands of parts.
This means that steps B and C can literally take hours and hours of
sitting with a calculator trying to figure out what some operator has
written on the sheet or where he/she may have made a
computational-error, and that's not even getting into the disconnect
between paper start/end times and MES start/end times.

Does any of this make sense to anyone? My desire is to get rid of the
paper entry (unless the power is out), but I'm getting some serious
resistance from people claiming we'll have traffic-jams at the MES
stations and that our machine operators don't know how to use the
computers well enough to do this (despite the fact that on every CNC
machine lives a Windows95 computer).

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
--Ari

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · May 21, 2008, 1:06am

Ari,

Seems pretty cumbersome to me. Probably need to tie back into your
payroll process of some sort. Most people are motivated by receiving a
paycheck. I don't know your full situation, but I would guess that tying
this into a person's pay would be a way to increase the accuracy of the
job.

As for backups at the MES stations it should only take a few seconds to
log in and out of a job. If the traveler is bar coded then the process
should be pretty straight forward for any non-computer "techie". You may
want to "double up" in places that have a few more machines to help ease
the transition.

Hope this helps.

Jason Claggett

Microsoft Small Business Specialist

MCP #3856159

2W Technologies, LLC

312.533.4033 x8039

jason@...

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ari Footlik
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Partial OT: Opinions on Process

Due to certain restrictions, I've been tasked with closing work-orders
for some of our jobs, so I've spent a few days "training" with the
person who normally closes WOs. Here's what it takes to close a job in
Vantage - please let me know if this sounds excessive to any of you.
Items with capital letters are steps I'm particularly concerned with:

a) Check NC list to verify no NCs/scrap exists for the work-order
B) For each machining operation (mill/turn/etc), compare quantities on
hand-written job logs to quantities entered into Vantage labor-entry
B2) If different, stop processing and forward to shop-floor traffic
coordinator to correct
C) For each machining operation, compare start/end times on hand-written
job logs to times entered into Vantage labor-entry
C2) If different (beyond more than a couple of minutes), stop
processing and forward to shop-floor asst. manager to correct
D) In "Job Entry," un-release/un-engineer part and update setup and
production-per-machine values
d2) On custom VBForm, update other time fields (program time,
etc...)
d3) Re-enable release/engineer checkmarks
D4) Close the "Job Entry" window, entering "1" as the value for the
comment
e) "Job Closing" - close the job
f) Print paper copy of "Production for a Job" to file with completed
work-order

Granted, it doesn't seem like a lot when its written out like this, but
think of it this way: Some jobs have multiple machining operations, and
for some of the jobs we are running lots of tens of thousands of parts.
This means that steps B and C can literally take hours and hours of
sitting with a calculator trying to figure out what some operator has
written on the sheet or where he/she may have made a
computational-error, and that's not even getting into the disconnect
between paper start/end times and MES start/end times.

Does any of this make sense to anyone? My desire is to get rid of the
paper entry (unless the power is out), but I'm getting some serious
resistance from people claiming we'll have traffic-jams at the MES
stations and that our machine operators don't know how to use the
computers well enough to do this (despite the fact that on every CNC
machine lives a Windows95 computer).

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
--Ari

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · May 21, 2008, 6:47am

From the sound of it. You have some relatively key player in your data flow
structure that does not trust the system well enough to let go of their
pencil. Very common complaint/problem. If you have the scope of authority
I would look at the actual process step by step and see if you can improve
that part of your data collection process. If you can't do that, I'd try to
generate a report, BAQ, or ODBC to excel to get a comparitive list so that
its easier to sort out and bundle the "problems" and whip through the good
ones. I'd also keep track of who owns most of the problems, generally
speaking people working on the factory floor generate things in a consistant
manner, they either get it correct most of the time or they get it wrong
most of the time. If you can isolate that pattern so that you correct the
people that are getting it mostly wrong you lighten your own work load.

Shirley Graver

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rfc822 Compliance issue From: added by system POTENTIAL SPAM
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:17 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Partial OT: Opinions on Process

Due to certain restrictions, I've been tasked with closing work-orders
for some of our jobs, so I've spent a few days "training" with the
person who normally closes WOs. Here's what it takes to close a job in
Vantage - please let me know if this sounds excessive to any of you.
Items with capital letters are steps I'm particularly concerned with:

a) Check NC list to verify no NCs/scrap exists for the work-order
B) For each machining operation (mill/turn/etc), compare quantities on
hand-written job logs to quantities entered into Vantage labor-entry
B2) If different, stop processing and forward to shop-floor traffic
coordinator to correct
C) For each machining operation, compare start/end times on hand-written
job logs to times entered into Vantage labor-entry
C2) If different (beyond more than a couple of minutes), stop
processing and forward to shop-floor asst. manager to correct
D) In "Job Entry," un-release/un-engineer part and update setup and
production-per-machine values
d2) On custom VBForm, update other time fields (program time,
etc...)
d3) Re-enable release/engineer checkmarks
D4) Close the "Job Entry" window, entering "1" as the value for the
comment
e) "Job Closing" - close the job
f) Print paper copy of "Production for a Job" to file with completed
work-order

Granted, it doesn't seem like a lot when its written out like this, but
think of it this way: Some jobs have multiple machining operations, and
for some of the jobs we are running lots of tens of thousands of parts.
This means that steps B and C can literally take hours and hours of
sitting with a calculator trying to figure out what some operator has
written on the sheet or where he/she may have made a
computational-error, and that's not even getting into the disconnect
between paper start/end times and MES start/end times.

Does any of this make sense to anyone? My desire is to get rid of the
paper entry (unless the power is out), but I'm getting some serious
resistance from people claiming we'll have traffic-jams at the MES
stations and that our machine operators don't know how to use the
computers well enough to do this (despite the fact that on every CNC
machine lives a Windows95 computer).

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
--Ari

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · June 11, 2008, 1:17pm

Ari,

In my opinion, most of what you mentioned shouldn't necessarily be
an 'end of job' task. Labor and Material auditing should be a daily
occurance, not an end of job task. Experience tells me that it saves
time when the problem is immediately addressed when it's still fresh
in everyone's minds. What is the reason behind updating production
and setup values (rates?)? Instead of spinning your wheels on the
cleanup, maybe start analyzing and fix it on the front end. Why are
the value's incorrect? If you are talking about rates and estimates,
some engineering training might be considered. If your estimates are
correct, the labor has already been fixed, and the open PO/NC have
been validated, then your job closing should be as simple as
reviewing the Production Detail for estimate vs. actual and then
closing the job.

MES will definitely help clear up some of the entry problems you are
experiencing. The keys to a successfull MES implementation are
effective training, correct setup of hardware/software, and valid
audit reporting. There are a number of things that you can do (even
in the older versions of Vantage) to make the labor entry close to
dummy-proof. Customizing the layout (only show the bare essentials).
Providing either a touchscreen or barcode interface makes the process
even more simplified. One might even post basic Work Instructions at
each terminal.

This is what we do here.

We have 6 terminals for about 40 employees which are scattered around
the shop. Each are thin clients that only run a connection to MES
located on the terminal server. It's the only icon on the desktop
(simple). We've virtually barcoded everything which elimates
the "fat finger" syndrome usually associated with data entry. Each
employee carries a barcoded badge that logs them in. Standard
barcodes for starting activity, ending activity, and logging out are
posted at each terminal. The barcode job traveler is used to enter
job information. Each week, the production managers run a labor
report and make adjustments to time. Of course only half of this
works since the 8.03 upgrade, but will supposedly be fixed with the
8.03.500 service pack. Point is, this setup is not difficult and in
return will cut your production non-value-added data entry by 85%.

Sorry for the book. Just my 2c.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley Graver" <shirleyg@...> wrote:
>
> From the sound of it. You have some relatively key player in your
data flow
> structure that does not trust the system well enough to let go of
their
> pencil. Very common complaint/problem. If you have the scope of
authority
> I would look at the actual process step by step and see if you can
improve
> that part of your data collection process. If you can't do that,
I'd try to
> generate a report, BAQ, or ODBC to excel to get a comparitive list
so that
> its easier to sort out and bundle the "problems" and whip through
the good
> ones. I'd also keep track of who owns most of the problems,
generally
> speaking people working on the factory floor generate things in a
consistant
> manner, they either get it correct most of the time or they get it
wrong
> most of the time. If you can isolate that pattern so that you
correct the
> people that are getting it mostly wrong you lighten your own work
load.
>
> Shirley Graver
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> rfc822 Compliance issue From: added by system POTENTIAL SPAM
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:17 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Partial OT: Opinions on Process
>
>
>
> Due to certain restrictions, I've been tasked with closing work-
orders
> for some of our jobs, so I've spent a few days "training" with the
> person who normally closes WOs. Here's what it takes to close a job
in
> Vantage - please let me know if this sounds excessive to any of you.
> Items with capital letters are steps I'm particularly concerned
with:
>
> a) Check NC list to verify no NCs/scrap exists for the work-order
> B) For each machining operation (mill/turn/etc), compare quantities
on
> hand-written job logs to quantities entered into Vantage labor-entry
> B2) If different, stop processing and forward to shop-floor traffic
> coordinator to correct
> C) For each machining operation, compare start/end times on hand-
written
> job logs to times entered into Vantage labor-entry
> C2) If different (beyond more than a couple of minutes), stop
> processing and forward to shop-floor asst. manager to correct
> D) In "Job Entry," un-release/un-engineer part and update setup and
> production-per-machine values
> d2) On custom VBForm, update other time fields (program time,
> etc...)
> d3) Re-enable release/engineer checkmarks
> D4) Close the "Job Entry" window, entering "1" as the value for the
> comment
> e) "Job Closing" - close the job
> f) Print paper copy of "Production for a Job" to file with completed
> work-order
>
> Granted, it doesn't seem like a lot when its written out like this,
but
> think of it this way: Some jobs have multiple machining operations,
and
> for some of the jobs we are running lots of tens of thousands of
parts.
> This means that steps B and C can literally take hours and hours of
> sitting with a calculator trying to figure out what some operator
has
> written on the sheet or where he/she may have made a
> computational-error, and that's not even getting into the disconnect
> between paper start/end times and MES start/end times.
>
> Does any of this make sense to anyone? My desire is to get rid of
the
> paper entry (unless the power is out), but I'm getting some serious
> resistance from people claiming we'll have traffic-jams at the MES
> stations and that our machine operators don't know how to use the
> computers well enough to do this (despite the fact that on every CNC
> machine lives a Windows95 computer).
>
> Thanks for allowing me to vent.
> --Ari
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>