I vote NO!!!!!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeanne Weiler" <JWEILER@...>
To: <vantage@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

> I vote NO!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Clauser [mailto:gclauser@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:23 AM
> To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
>
> I vote an emphatic NO!
> Greg Clauser
> Lakin General Corporation
> gclauser@... <mailto:gclauser@...>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Wirtz [mailto:SWirtz@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:20 AM
> To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
> our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
> about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
> of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
> already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
> we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
> vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
> is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
> to keep up with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
> in any discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
> holder on the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
> membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
>
> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
> Files, please go to the following link:
> http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> <http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
> try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
> choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
> password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
> please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> <http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
to
> www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups,
> choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link
above
> will work the next time you try it.)
>
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
> please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
to
> www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups,
> choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link
above
> will work the next time you try it.)
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above will work the next time you try it.)
>

Steve,

Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

Another thought on this:

Anybody can be an epicor stockholder. This person could own very little
stock to be a stockholder. This list often tends to complain often about
Epicor and the product. What if many stockholders join this group, read one
of the groups threads where they complain about epicor and decides epicor is
not a good company to invest in? Most stockholders have little power to
change the company or the product. Instead they would decide epicor is a
bad investment and sell. Maybe we should hope that is what epicor will
think and work on taking our suggestions more seriously. However, if many
stockholders join this list and bail out, our software company could out of
business. Maybe that's a bit drastic, but it scares me in such a volatile
market. I am not ready to take this product as is or to invest in another
software package.

Sarah

If the stockholders carry any more clout than the users, by all means let
her in.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

Why not stick to the policy that is in place now? It was set up for a reason. Or are you asking if the policy whould be changed?

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Williams
To: vantage@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

If the stockholders carry any more clout than the users, by all means let
her in.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I regularly monitor the Yahoo Finance message board for EPIC (found at
http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q
<http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=EPIC> &board=EPIC ) and used it
as a source of information before we decided on Vantage. Like most
anonymous message boards it has its share of "characters" and some of the
information is doubtful if not totally bogus. I have posted there a few
times either defending Vantage as a product or Epicor as a vendor as well as
exposing some of the weaker aspects to other potential Vantage buyers. I
have considered buying some of the stock but have held off pending solid
signs of tech market in general recovering.

In a way we are all Epicor investors, as Sarah has pointed out, and we have
a vested interest in the company sticking around and doing well. Exposing
various warts and blemishes may not help this cause. We are the revenue
side of Epicor and the investors are on the profit (they hope) side and
while I want Epicor to succeed big profits at the expense of my employer are
not desirable either.

In the interest of promoting free expression of our mutual views as users
and not having to worry about lurking investors I am not in favor of
admitting non-users. I don't want to have to ever think twice about posting
a request for help or revealing a bug when it might affect the viability of
the company. If a user feels strongly enough to voice an opinion to
investors (and thereby get the company's ear) then they can do so at an
investor BB like Yahoo. IMHO.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up
with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any
discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Sarah. I was even surprised (two weeks ago) that a potential
buyer was on the list. We all have our complaints, but we sure don't want
this software to disappear. There's a big difference between owning shares
of stock and being a front-line user.

Lydia

-----Original Message-----
From: sarah.vareschi@... [mailto:sarah.vareschi@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 8:32 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Another thought on this:

Anybody can be an epicor stockholder. This person could own very little
stock to be a stockholder. This list often tends to complain often about
Epicor and the product. What if many stockholders join this group, read one
of the groups threads where they complain about epicor and decides epicor is
not a good company to invest in? Most stockholders have little power to
change the company or the product. Instead they would decide epicor is a
bad investment and sell. Maybe we should hope that is what epicor will
think and work on taking our suggestions more seriously. However, if many
stockholders join this list and bail out, our software company could out of
business. Maybe that's a bit drastic, but it scares me in such a volatile
market. I am not ready to take this product as is or to invest in another
software package.

Sarah

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

I vote an emphatic NO!
Greg Clauser
Lakin General Corporation
gclauser@... <mailto:gclauser@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wirtz [mailto:SWirtz@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:20 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Steve,

Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

DITTO

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [SMTP:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 12:21 PM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I regularly monitor the Yahoo Finance message board for EPIC
(found at
http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q
<http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=EPIC> &board=EPIC )
and used it
as a source of information before we decided on Vantage. Like
most
anonymous message boards it has its share of "characters" and
some of the
information is doubtful if not totally bogus. I have posted
there a few
times either defending Vantage as a product or Epicor as a
vendor as well as
exposing some of the weaker aspects to other potential Vantage
buyers. I
have considered buying some of the stock but have held off
pending solid
signs of tech market in general recovering.

In a way we are all Epicor investors, as Sarah has pointed out,
and we have
a vested interest in the company sticking around and doing
well. Exposing
various warts and blemishes may not help this cause. We are the
revenue
side of Epicor and the investors are on the profit (they hope)
side and
while I want Epicor to succeed big profits at the expense of my
employer are
not desirable either.

In the interest of promoting free expression of our mutual views
as users
and not having to worry about lurking investors I am not in
favor of
admitting non-users. I don't want to have to ever think twice
about posting
a request for help or revealing a bug when it might affect the
viability of
the company. If a user feels strongly enough to voice an
opinion to
investors (and thereby get the company's ear) then they can do
so at an
investor BB like Yahoo. IMHO.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to
keep up
with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in
any
discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files,
please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose
My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password,
the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

It's not user's complaints that will cause investors to flee a company.
It's decreasing sales, profits and customers actually switching to other
products.
I am a Vantage User and an ex Epicor investor and I don't think that any
negative comment I make in this forum would effect the capital market for
Epicor.
As an investor I would be the most interested in the Vantage/Visual debate
that ran a week or so ago. What I saw was mostly detailed, intelligent and
thoughtful comments about vantage (both positive and negative) With
objective input about the importance of the implementation process for any
product. This would suggest to me that Vantage users are an intelligent
bunch of people that DID pick Vantage over all the other products and after
all the negative venting not many where ready to toss the software.
Though as an investor I might be inclined to contact Epicor and ask about
some of the user's complaints (slow bug fixes, etc.). To which they will
undoubtedly have reasonable responses (and possibly quicker actions to the
user's benefit).

Let the investors in. ( maybe we should change the name from Vantage Users
Group to Epicor Stakeholders Club )

Jerry Solobay

Ebco Aerospace

Well, at first we couldn't see any real problem in letting this type of
member in. We certainly didn't want to make any changes without letting the
group know what was going on, so I threw out the comment to the group to see
what kind of response we would get. As usual, y'all came through with some
really good points that we hadn't considered.

As it turns out, we found other information that led us to believe that this
person was not being entirely up-front about their situation, so the point
is moot. Unless something else changes, I doubt that we will be admitting
this person to the group.

Thanks again for your comments! We really are interested in keeping this
group working at least as well as it has in the past. I promise that we
will keep the group informed before we make any serious changes!

Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Moderator

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:25 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Why not stick to the policy that is in place now? It was set up for a
reason. Or are you asking if the policy whould be changed?

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Williams
To: vantage@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

If the stockholders carry any more clout than the users, by all means
let
her in.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up
with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any
discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on
the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above will work the next time you try it.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not in favor on this issue. I'm sure other corporations and products
have "closed" user groups that aren't available to the Stock Market Place.

I belonged to a local user group, on a different platform, many years ago.
Things were fine until non-users were allowed into membership, ie
salespersons and onlookers. That was the beginning of the down fall of the
organization, we ended up with more non-users than users. The users were not
comfortable discussing issues with people present who had different agendas.
We elected officers and only users could hold office or vote on financial
issues, the group disbanded when there weren't enough people fill the few
offices.

Warren.Eddy@...

219 478-2363 ext 217

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an

excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up
with

what users

are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any
discussions

but really

am interested in reading the list from time to time.

I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the

list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her membership

since it is outside the normal requirements.

Steve Sanders

Vantage eGroups Administrator

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/

(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

Shirley's comment brings another point to mind. Why not request Epicor
provide copies of press releases and other public information which is
presented to stockholder to the egroup for posting. Since Epicor
monitors the egroup, shouldn't we ask that their monitor post such
public information to our members?

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [SMTP:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 12:36 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I have no problem at all adding a stockholder to the group.
Users gripe so
what. Out of courtesy though, they shouldnt be peppered with
expressed
desires to take whats said to a stockholders meeting, and
similarly I
wouldn't expect them to reveal confidential stockholder
information to us.

Shirley H. Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc. (Certified to QS9000/ISO9002)
Cleveland/Akron, Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

Foolishness!

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sanders <ssanders@...>
To: <vantage@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:56 AM
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above will work the next time you try it.)
>

I vote NO!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Clauser [mailto:gclauser@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:23 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I vote an emphatic NO!
Greg Clauser
Lakin General Corporation
gclauser@... <mailto:gclauser@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wirtz [mailto:SWirtz@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:20 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Steve,

Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

I say no also.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeanne Weiler [mailto:JWEILER@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:43 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I vote NO!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Clauser [mailto:gclauser@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:23 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I vote an emphatic NO!
Greg Clauser
Lakin General Corporation
gclauser@... <mailto:gclauser@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wirtz [mailto:SWirtz@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:20 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Steve,

Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

From the 16th to the 24th I have received 168 emails. Most are Technical
items of discussion, I can't see how these items would be relevant or even
make sense to a stockholder that has never used or setup the product. A lot
of the items discussed aren't anything to do with vantage...like Terminal
Sever, OBDC and Crystal and so on. How will the stockholder be able to make
any judgement on the product if they don't know if were talking about it or
a 3rd party product.
Lets face it I can't keep up with the volume of mail and I understand what
is being discussed do think someone that doesn't will.

That is my opinion...no offence intended

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:57 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up
> with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any
> discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
> membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
> please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
> to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
> Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
> link above will work the next time you try it.)

I have the opposite opinion to Mark. I find that a large number of the
messages I get have nothing to do with questions about the product and/or
how to use it. There are entirely too many messages about how to use this
group, what opinions we have about things, and other subjects that don't
relate to Vantage itself (and questions about ODBC, Terminal Server,
Crystal, Etc., ARE related to Vantage if they are being used in conjunction
with Vantage). From my point of view, I don't really care who reads these
messages or why they read them. My only concern is that I can post real
questions that get answered, and I can answer real questions when I have an
answer to give.

The ONLY reason I would be concerned about non-users being members is if
they started posting messages that don't have to do with Vantage (or related
products). This would only add to the already excessive number of
non-value-added messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Howard [mailto:speed@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:46 PM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

From the 16th to the 24th I have received 168 emails. Most are Technical
items of discussion, I can't see how these items would be relevant or even
make sense to a stockholder that has never used or setup the product. A lot
of the items discussed aren't anything to do with vantage...like Terminal
Sever, OBDC and Crystal and so on. How will the stockholder be able to make
any judgement on the product if they don't know if were talking about it or
a 3rd party product.
Lets face it I can't keep up with the volume of mail and I understand what
is being discussed do think someone that doesn't will.

That is my opinion...no offence intended

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:57 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up
> with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any
> discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
> membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
> please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go
> to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
> Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
> link above will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

No!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeanne Weiler [mailto:JWEILER@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:43 PM
To: pmcguire@...
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I vote NO!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Clauser [mailto:gclauser@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:23 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

I vote an emphatic NO!
Greg Clauser
Lakin General Corporation
gclauser@... <mailto:gclauser@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wirtz [mailto:SWirtz@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:20 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

Steve,

Just a couple of thoughts. It might make Epicor pay more attention to
our requests since they are monitoring the lists themselves, but what
about the next investor that has the same request, and the next? Some
of what we talk about may be company confidential and we of course have
already accepted a risk by our discussions with other vantage users, but
we may have to be more guarded if this information is going outside
vantage users and the purpose intended for the egroup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
is an
excerpt from her request:

I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list
to keep up with
what users
are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating
in any discussions
but really
am interested in reading the list from time to time.
I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.

Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
holder on the
list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
membership
since it is outside the normal requirements.
Steve Sanders
Vantage eGroups Administrator

-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files, please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you
try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password,
choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)

This would be a good way for a competitor to get loads of
info. Just buy a share or two of epicor and get on the
list claiming to be a concerned stockholder.

Steve Sanders wrote:

>
> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to keep up with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in any discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock holder on the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files, please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

Doesn't competition make better/cheaper products? Isn't that what drives our
businesses? If they were a competitor they could probably use a little help
figuring out how Vantage works just like the rest of us!

In the original request they claimed not to be a user. If you are not a user
of Vantage then this list is useless to you. Of all the posts on this list,
only the topics concerning Crystal concern me, the rest are over my head. I
can't imagine the investor/lurker will hang around long once the techno
banter starts flying around.

My vote? Kill this thread!
Eric Nelson
Applications-Web Services
Winona Lighting, Inc
3760 West Fourth Street
Winona, MN 55987-7205
P: (507) 454-5113
F: (507) 452-8528
1-800-328-5291
www.winonalighting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Konecny [mailto:jkonecn@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:08 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member

This would be a good way for a competitor to get loads of
info. Just buy a share or two of epicor and get on the
list claiming to be a concerned stockholder.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve
Just a thought... How are you going to keep them out? When I joined
this group, I don't remember being asked whether I was a Vantage
user... and there certainly was no "background check" done on me to see
if I was.. (at least not to my knowledge).

All a person would have to do to be "accepted" by the group would be to
post a question like "Hey, has anyone out there be able to get EDI
working in Vantage?" and EVERYONE would believe them to be a geniune
Vantage user! ;)

Britt Moelling

Steve Sanders wrote:

> Well, at first we couldn't see any real problem in letting this type
> of
> member in. We certainly didn't want to make any changes without
> letting the
> group know what was going on, so I threw out the comment to the group
> to see
> what kind of response we would get. As usual, y'all came through with
> some
> really good points that we hadn't considered.
>
> As it turns out, we found other information that led us to believe
> that this
> person was not being entirely up-front about their situation, so the
> point
> is moot. Unless something else changes, I doubt that we will be
> admitting
> this person to the group.
>
> Thanks again for your comments! We really are interested in keeping
> this
> group working at least as well as it has in the past. I promise that
> we
> will keep the group informed before we make any serious changes!
>
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Moderator
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:25 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
>
> Why not stick to the policy that is in place now? It was set up for
> a
> reason. Or are you asking if the policy whould be changed?
>
> Troy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry Williams
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:25 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
>
> If the stockholders carry any more clout than the users, by all
> means
> let
> her in.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [mailto:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:57 AM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [Admin] New Member
>
> We received a list membership request from Teresa Van Son. Here
> is an
> excerpt from her request:
>
> I am an Epicor stock owner and I want to visit the list to
> keep up
> with
> what users
> are saying about Vantage. I don't plan on participating in
> any
> discussions
> but really
> am interested in reading the list from time to time.
> I don't have a company, I am an independent investor.
>
> Personally, I think it will be great to have an Epicor stock
> holder on
> the
> list, but we wanted you to be aware that we were considering her
> membership
> since it is outside the normal requirements.
> Steve Sanders
> Vantage eGroups Administrator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
> Files,
> please go to the following link:
> http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try
> it, go
> to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
>
> Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password,
> the
> link above will work the next time you try it.)
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor

>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
> Files, please go to the following link:
> http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it,
> go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose
> My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
> password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

--
Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co., Inc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]