Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?

Re (1) I've heard the finite time fence theory before but it just doesn't wash. Vantage uses actual op dtl start dates to determine material requirement dates associated with those ops.
Â
To knowingly use a finite fence assures that MRP will be messaging (beyond the finite fence ) based upon dates almost assuredly having little basis in reality.
Â
I just don't buy it as, if your material planning can be the sloppy beyond the finite fence date, why even commit to ANY plan that far out? Just use contract POs, Bin Kan-Bans and only firm true MTS MRP generated jobs when they get within the fence.
Â
Re (2) Split Ops does seem to offer a means for an experienced planner scheduler to more fully utilize capacity (assuming the model is accurate). Thanks for the tip. I'll play with it to see if it is worth the added effort.
Â
RobÂ

--- On Wed, 4/23/08, Carey S <rotary1@...> wrote:

From: Carey S <rotary1@...>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 8:46 PM






Rob, I agree with what you are saying.
Lead times (and how accurately your vendors can deliver repeatedly) as well as less-than-accuracte BOMs will kill anything given from CTP as far as anticipated availability.

However, regarding the ability to find room in a tightly packed schedule, or at least one modified by GPS on a nightly basis, some people might have luck by doing a couple of things:

1) resources can be scheduled finitely within a fence and then indefinately beyond. So if this limit is 2 weeks out, the scheudule should schedule infinitely based on the required date. I know this seems to be antithetical to the CTP idea, but at least at this point, someone in a tight sitation as you describe might be able to take some advantage of the near schedule, and then look at the indefinite part of thge schedule for what-if analysis, etc.

2) Also, some users might also benefit from the ability to use the "split-operations" functionality in order to schedule the operation in a non-linear manner in order to complete the operation (and or job) by filling in these otherwise "non-acommodating" time gaps.
Users should note that the CTP from the sales order and the ATP from the quote module are not exactly the same. So ATP values may likely change once the job is confirmed and actually put on the schedule and compared against all actual constraints.
Carey

To: vantage@yahoogroups .comFrom: robertb_versa@ yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:14:57 -0700Subject: Re: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?

8.03 (at least since .305) has supported a Capable to Promise Action menu subprocess out of Order Entry. (Perhaps out of quote entry as well as that would be a handy place to also have it.) Frankly though (at least in our complex environment) it is crap and gives ludicrously inflated estimated fulfillment times. It is only going to be as accurate as your purchased item lead times (which, just like internal production lead times are truly variable based on vendor load conditions). Also, if you finite schedule internal production and nightly run the Global to tighten up you schedules and make best use of capacity, CTP will rarely find near term 'free' capacity to fulfill a fabricated part requirement. An experienced human planner (on the other hand) would recognize the typical true 'wiggle room' in tightly packed finite resource schedules and be able to give a much more realistic and reliable delivery estimate/promise. (And a good planner can usually do
this 'by eye' in seconds without doing time consuming 'what if' reschedule simulations. ) CTP was one of those nice ideas dreamed up to sell software but only really accurate in limited manufacturing models (true MTO short L/T and short days of order backlog flow processes -OR- very limited product variation MTS/sell from stock businesses). The vast majority of companies lie between those 2 extremes. You want accurate sales promising? Change policy (so non-material planning experienced people no longer make promises that can't be kept) and hire good planners. People do this stuff better than computer applications as the system's model of your operation and conditions is rarely accurate enough for an application process to give you a good answer. Rob Brown--- On Wed, 4/23/08, Patrick Parker <pbparker@yahoo. com> wrote:From: Patrick Parker <pbparker@yahoo. com>Subject: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?To: vantage@yahoogroups .comDate:
Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 12:05 PMWe've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing. The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for orders.So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have quotes obviously.__ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
We've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next
week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing.

The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it
would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for
orders.

So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and
letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can
promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have
quotes obviously.
> We've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next
> week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing.

Really? <sarcasm>Our guys never do that...</sarcasm>

> The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it
> would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for
> orders.
>
> So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and
> letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can
> promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have
> quotes obviously.

Have you tried Capable to Promise on the Actions menu?

Mark W.
Do you have the APS module?
If so, you would then have access to Capable To Promise from the Sales Order and Available To Promise from the Quote.

From here, your bills and schedules should be really accurate, or CTP won't do you much good.

From CTP window, you can accept the job position and even create the job.
Carey


To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: pbparker@...: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:05:20 +0000Subject: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?




We've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing.The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for orders.So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have quotes obviously.






_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby�how do you know when you�re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ahhh, my bad. I flew right on by that Capable to Promise because it
was grayed out... no we don't have the APS module so I guess that
explains it.

I'll investigate that I guess and see whether it's worse the cost.
Thanks.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Carey S <rotary1@...> wrote:
>
> Do you have the APS module?
> If so, you would then have access to Capable To Promise from the
Sales Order and Available To Promise from the Quote.
>
> From here, your bills and schedules should be really accurate, or
CTP won't do you much good.
>
> From CTP window, you can accept the job position and even create
the job.
> Carey
>
>
> To: vantage@...: pbparker@...: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:05:20
+0000Subject: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?
>
>
>
>
> We've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the
next week when in reality we're already overextended in
manufacturing.The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell
the rep where it would fit in with the current load, but I see no
function like that for orders.So, wondering how people are handling
their sales departments and letting them know how the shop load is
and what timeline they can promise on an order. These are for
straight orders that don't have quotes obviously.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Back to work after baby–how do you know when you're ready?
> http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-
documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
8.03 (at least since .305) has supported a Capable to Promise Action menu subprocess out of Order Entry. (Perhaps out of quote entry as well as that would be a handy place to also have it.)
Â
Frankly though (at least in our complex environment) it is crap and gives ludicrously inflated estimated fulfillment times.
Â
It is only going to be as accurate as your purchased item lead times (which, just like internal production lead times are truly variable based on vendor load conditions).
Â
Also, if you finite schedule internal production and nightly run the Global to tighten up you schedules and make best use of capacity, CTP will rarely find near term 'free' capacity to fulfill a fabricated part requirement.
Â
An experienced human planner (on the other hand) would recognize the typical true 'wiggle room' in tightly packed finite resource schedules and be able to give a much more realistic and reliable delivery estimate/promise. (And a good planner can usually do this 'by eye' in seconds without doing time consuming 'what if' reschedule simulations.)
Â
CTP was one of those nice ideas dreamed up to sell software but only really accurate in limited manufacturing models (true MTO short L/T and short days of order backlog flow processes -OR- very limited product variation MTS/sell from stock businesses). The vast majority of companies lie between those 2 extremes.
Â
You want accurate sales promising? Change policy (so non-material planning experienced people no longer make promises that can't be kept) and hire good planners.
Â
People do this stuff better than computer applications as the system's model of your operation and conditions is rarely accurate enough for an application process to give you a good answer.
Â
Rob Brown

--- On Wed, 4/23/08, Patrick Parker <pbparker@...> wrote:

From: Patrick Parker <pbparker@...>
Subject: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 12:05 PM






We've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next
week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing.

The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it
would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for
orders.

So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and
letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can
promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have
quotes obviously.
















____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Rob, I agree with what you are saying.
Lead times (and how accurately your vendors can deliver repeatedly) as well as less-than-accuracte BOMs will kill anything given from CTP as far as anticipated availability.

However, regarding the ability to find room in a tightly packed schedule, or at least one modified by GPS on a nightly basis, some people might have luck by doing a couple of things:

1) resources can be scheduled finitely within a fence and then indefinately beyond. So if this limit is 2 weeks out, the scheudule should schedule infinitely based on the required date. I know this seems to be antithetical to the CTP idea, but at least at this point, someone in a tight sitation as you describe might be able to take some advantage of the near schedule, and then look at the indefinite part of thge schedule for what-if analysis, etc.

2) Also, some users might also benefit from the ability to use the "split-operations" functionality in order to schedule the operation in a non-linear manner in order to complete the operation (and or job) by filling in these otherwise "non-acommodating" time gaps.
Users should note that the CTP from the sales order and the ATP from the quote module are not exactly the same. So ATP values may likely change once the job is confirmed and actually put on the schedule and compared against all actual constraints.
Carey


To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: robertb_versa@...: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:14:57 -0700Subject: Re: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?




8.03 (at least since .305) has supported a Capable to Promise Action menu subprocess out of Order Entry. (Perhaps out of quote entry as well as that would be a handy place to also have it.) Frankly though (at least in our complex environment) it is crap and gives ludicrously inflated estimated fulfillment times. It is only going to be as accurate as your purchased item lead times (which, just like internal production lead times are truly variable based on vendor load conditions). Also, if you finite schedule internal production and nightly run the Global to tighten up you schedules and make best use of capacity, CTP will rarely find near term 'free' capacity to fulfill a fabricated part requirement. An experienced human planner (on the other hand) would recognize the typical true 'wiggle room' in tightly packed finite resource schedules and be able to give a much more realistic and reliable delivery estimate/promise. (And a good planner can usually do this 'by eye' in seconds without doing time consuming 'what if' reschedule simulations.) CTP was one of those nice ideas dreamed up to sell software but only really accurate in limited manufacturing models (true MTO short L/T and short days of order backlog flow processes -OR- very limited product variation MTS/sell from stock businesses). The vast majority of companies lie between those 2 extremes. You want accurate sales promising? Change policy (so non-material planning experienced people no longer make promises that can't be kept) and hire good planners. People do this stuff better than computer applications as the system's model of your operation and conditions is rarely accurate enough for an application process to give you a good answer. Rob Brown--- On Wed, 4/23/08, Patrick Parker <pbparker@...> wrote:From: Patrick Parker <pbparker@...>Subject: [Vantage] Any what-if capabilities for sales orders?To: vantage@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 12:05 PMWe've got some sales reps that tend to promise everything in the next week when in reality we're already overextended in manufacturing.The quote page has the what if schedule which can tell the rep where it would fit in with the current load, but I see no function like that for orders.So, wondering how people are handling their sales departments and letting them know how the shop load is and what timeline they can promise on an order. These are for straight orders that don't have quotes obviously.__________________________________________________________Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ






_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL

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