ASP Offerings from Epicor

Yahoo Archive
1
I think ASP has great potential. Let epicor spend the weekend camping out in
St Paul doing my Morocco conversion.

Patrick


-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 12:48 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ASP Offerings from Epicor



> hosting fee would be
> somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase
> hardware,
> maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
> Probably not?
>
I would like to be making that $75k a year!!! I would think prices for this
service would have to be more reasonable for this type of service to be
effective. Even with ASP you would still need essentially the same hardware
in place to handle other none database functions within the network
structure. Thus you would still need someone to support the other functions
and equipment. My position and I'm sure others do more than sit around
baby-sitting the Vantage system. Who would take care of these other tasks.
What about in-house training, email services, computer repairs, custom
reports, etc. Would Epicor perform all these tasks?? I'm sure they would
for a $$$$$ price. I really do not see this as being a threat to my current
role here or anywhere else. It looks to me that this is a ploy by software
manufacturers to get a little more dependency on them to get a little deeper
in our pockets!!! The only market for this that I can see advantages for
this service would be the REAL small guys who can not afford a full-time
person for IT. But they probably could not afford Epicor either.

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.
IT Manager



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2
I have three questions for our online Vantage users group:

1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
Made 2 Manage (see below)?
2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
Vantage hosted by an ASP?
3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
maintenance fee?

Scott A. Lepley
Systems Administrator
Mauell Corporation
Email: sal@...


Manufacturing Systems on the Internet (MSi) News-Line Weekly
August 21, 2000
Volume 2, Issue 34

Welcome to Manufacturing Systems on the Internet (MSi) News-Line Weekly,
from the editors of Manufacturing Systems magazine. Inside you will find
breaking market news and issues analysis for extended enterprise, supply
chain planning & execution, plant operations, and e-Business applications.
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>

<>~~~~~<>~~~ TABLE OF CONTENTS ~~~<>~~~~~<>

News-Line Weekly, August 21, 2000
View News-Line Weekly in its entirety at
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10. Made2Manage launches ASP for ERP

Indianapolis-based enterprise solutions provider Made2Manage Systems (M2M)
now offers an application service provider (ASP) offering for its
back-office software product called M2MEXPRESS. The hosted model will allow
small and medium-size companies to implement a business solution that meets
their specific system management needs. Early on, small companies are
expected to use functionality like quotes and sales, production management,
advanced financials and inventory management. As the company grows, it can
begin to utilize additional functionality already available in the
Made2Manage software, including more advanced features such as material
requirement planning, product configuration, and lot control.

According to Gary Rush, chief technology officer for Made2Manage,
"M2MEXPRESS allows manufacturers to utilize their business applications
early. Further, there no longer is the need to invest time and money in
expensive information technology infrastructures and support staff."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
Scott,

I think the high speed connection costs for the software to be run by an asp
would be too high. Plus I like being able to control my own destiny and not
have a corporation dictate what version we use, and know that downtime would
be next to zero since I keep everything running smooth here. Without the
headaches of Epicor having problems or the high speed provider having
problems.

Eric Tolliver
IT\MIS
Continental Industries Inc.
5456 E. Mcdowell Rd.
Mesa, Az 85215
http://ciirelays.com/
mailto:e.tolliver@...

-----Original Message-----

I have three questions for our online Vantage users group:

1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
Made 2 Manage (see below)?
2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
Vantage hosted by an ASP?
3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
maintenance fee?

Scott A. Lepley
Systems Administrator
Mauell Corporation
Email: sal@...
4
Please see red highlighted text for your answers.

The official announcements will go out sometime in September, outlining
"eCenter by Epicor".

1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
Made 2 Manage (see below)?
Absolutely... Epicor has built "eCenter by Epicor" an ASP hosting center
for all Epicor applications, managed and supported by Epicor people.
2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
Vantage hosted by an ASP?
I would hope so. They can insure they are on the most current software,
get access to new modules and features with no added cost for
infrastructure.
3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
maintenance fee?
This is one of the misunderstood areas of an ASP offering. Maintenance
fees have nothing to do with hosted applications fee. The savings come from
the ability to have access to high quality applications without the cost of
the infrastructure, hardware or people to manage it. For example. If a
Vantage customer were to buy a 15 user system. The purchase price with
maintenance is about $75k with all of the options. The hosting fee would be
somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase hardware,
maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
Probably not?

Michael Holton
e p i c o r S o f t w a r e
Customer Account Manager
Manufacturing Systems
(800)638-3208 Ext. 5242
www.epicor.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lepley, Scott A. [mailto:sal@...]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:17 PM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] ASP Offerings from Epicor

I have three questions for our online Vantage users group:
5
Michael,

What happens to a company who's only link to the outside world is only a 56
k modem. Since there are no provisions for the area to run any faster? What
happens when the lines are out and there is no connection possible to
Epicor?

Eric Tolliver
IT\MIS
Continental Industries Inc.
5456 E. Mcdowell Rd.
Mesa, Az 85215
http://ciirelays.com/
mailto:e.tolliver@...

Please see red highlighted text for your answers.

The official announcements will go out sometime in September, outlining
"eCenter by Epicor".

1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
Made 2 Manage (see below)?
Absolutely... Epicor has built "eCenter by Epicor" an ASP hosting center
for all Epicor applications, managed and supported by Epicor people.
2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
Vantage hosted by an ASP?
I would hope so. They can insure they are on the most current software,
get access to new modules and features with no added cost for
infrastructure.
3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
maintenance fee?
This is one of the misunderstood areas of an ASP offering. Maintenance
fees have nothing to do with hosted applications fee. The savings come from
the ability to have access to high quality applications without the cost of
the infrastructure, hardware or people to manage it. For example. If a
Vantage customer were to buy a 15 user system. The purchase price with
maintenance is about $75k with all of the options. The hosting fee would be
somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase hardware,
maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
Probably not?

Michael Holton
e p i c o r S o f t w a r e
Customer Account Manager
Manufacturing Systems
(800)638-3208 Ext. 5242
www.epicor.com
6
> hosting fee would be
> somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase
> hardware,
> maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
> Probably not?
>
I would like to be making that $75k a year!!! I would think prices for this
service would have to be more reasonable for this type of service to be
effective. Even with ASP you would still need essentially the same hardware
in place to handle other none database functions within the network
structure. Thus you would still need someone to support the other functions
and equipment. My position and I'm sure others do more than sit around
baby-sitting the Vantage system. Who would take care of these other tasks.
What about in-house training, email services, computer repairs, custom
reports, etc. Would Epicor perform all these tasks?? I'm sure they would
for a $$$$$ price. I really do not see this as being a threat to my current
role here or anywhere else. It looks to me that this is a ploy by software
manufacturers to get a little more dependency on them to get a little deeper
in our pockets!!! The only market for this that I can see advantages for
this service would be the REAL small guys who can not afford a full-time
person for IT. But they probably could not afford Epicor either.

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.
IT Manager
7
It's hard for existing customers to get excited about things
like this when so many current modules need serious enhancements.
Epicor goes for new product after new product, new module after
new module to get sales. Can't blame them. But once you're in
you can see the problems.

Michael Holton wrote:
>
> Please see red highlighted text for your answers.
>
> The official announcements will go out sometime in September, outlining
> "eCenter by Epicor".
>
> 1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
> service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
> Made 2 Manage (see below)?
> Absolutely... Epicor has built "eCenter by Epicor" an ASP hosting center
> for all Epicor applications, managed and supported by Epicor people.
> 2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
> interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
> Vantage hosted by an ASP?
> I would hope so. They can insure they are on the most current software,
> get access to new modules and features with no added cost for
> infrastructure.
> 3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
> ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
> about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
> maintenance fee?
> This is one of the misunderstood areas of an ASP offering. Maintenance
> fees have nothing to do with hosted applications fee. The savings come from
> the ability to have access to high quality applications without the cost of
> the infrastructure, hardware or people to manage it. For example. If a
> Vantage customer were to buy a 15 user system. The purchase price with
> maintenance is about $75k with all of the options. The hosting fee would be
> somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase hardware,
> maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
> Probably not?
>
> Michael Holton
> e p i c o r S o f t w a r e
> Customer Account Manager
> Manufacturing Systems
> (800)638-3208 Ext. 5242
> www.epicor.com
8
Michael Holton wrote:...
> For example. If a
> Vantage customer were to buy a 15 user system. The purchase price
with
> maintenance is about $75k with all of the options. The hosting fee
would be
> somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase
hardware,
> maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
> Probably not?

What about all the holidays Epicor takes... will the customer have
access to their data when they are closed for "Presidents Day"?
What if there is a billing dispute, will Epicor "pull the plug" until
payment is made?
The more the customer is dependant on their software, the MORE they
should maintain control of their servers!

Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co., Inc.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Darren,

I think it's more of a way to ensure License's are paid for. Microsoft would
like to go ASP on all their software to get into all the pockets of those
who copy and crack their software illegally.

Eric Tolliver
IT\MIS
Continental Industries Inc.
5456 E. Mcdowell Rd.
Mesa, Az 85215
http://ciirelays.com/
mailto:e.tolliver@...

-----Original Message-----

> hosting fee would be
> somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase
> hardware,
> maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
> Probably not?
>
I would like to be making that $75k a year!!! I would think prices for this
service would have to be more reasonable for this type of service to be
effective. Even with ASP you would still need essentially the same hardware
in place to handle other none database functions within the network
structure. Thus you would still need someone to support the other functions
and equipment. My position and I'm sure others do more than sit around
baby-sitting the Vantage system. Who would take care of these other tasks.
What about in-house training, email services, computer repairs, custom
reports, etc. Would Epicor perform all these tasks?? I'm sure they would
for a $$$$$ price. I really do not see this as being a threat to my current
role here or anywhere else. It looks to me that this is a ploy by software
manufacturers to get a little more dependency on them to get a little deeper
in our pockets!!! The only market for this that I can see advantages for
this service would be the REAL small guys who can not afford a full-time
person for IT. But they probably could not afford Epicor either.

Darren Mann
Miller Products Co.
IT Manager
10
Michael,

You may have opened a can of worms here. I could write a book on why I
would love to use an ASP. This book would include disagreements with some
of the things you have read in other replies to your email. The book on why
I agree with the other replies is very short, but it would still win.

Basically, the price you suggest is prohibitive. Darren Mann wrote "Even
with ASP you would still need essentially the same hardware in place to
handle other none database functions within the network structure." I have
experienced this at three of Epicor's customers as an IT employee, and at
several others as a consultant. There is absolutely no hardware,
networking, infrastructure cost savings by going to an ASP. There is also
no labor cost savings, since Vantage/Avante/whatever maintenance is done as
a fractional part of someone's job. This is the way things work in your
target market, the midrange manufacturers. We all have one, two, or three
IT people, who are necessary with or without the ERP system. We also have
network systems that are necessary with or without the ERP system.

Based on this, the only reason to consider an ASP solution is if the annual
cost is less than the annual maintenance we are paying now.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Holton [mailto:mholton@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:42 AM
To: 'vantage@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] ASP Offerings from Epicor


Please see red highlighted text for your answers.

The official announcements will go out sometime in September, outlining
"eCenter by Epicor".

1. Has anyone heard of any intent by Epicor to provide an application
service similar to that now being offered by one of Epicor's competitors,
Made 2 Manage (see below)?
Absolutely... Epicor has built "eCenter by Epicor" an ASP hosting center
for all Epicor applications, managed and supported by Epicor people.
2. If Epicor did provide such a service, would current users be
interested in switching from hosting their own Vantage application to having
Vantage hosted by an ASP?
I would hope so. They can insure they are on the most current software,
get access to new modules and features with no added cost for
infrastructure.
3. If current users would be interested in having Vantage hosted by an
ASP, would you expect the annual service fee to be significantly less than,
about the same as, or significantly higher than your current annual
maintenance fee?
This is one of the misunderstood areas of an ASP offering. Maintenance
fees have nothing to do with hosted applications fee. The savings come from
the ability to have access to high quality applications without the cost of
the infrastructure, hardware or people to manage it. For example. If a
Vantage customer were to buy a 15 user system. The purchase price with
maintenance is about $75k with all of the options. The hosting fee would be
somewhere between $75k-$80k per year. Can a company purchase hardware,
maintain an infrastructure and hire and keep people for $75k a year.
Probably not?

Michael Holton
e p i c o r S o f t w a r e
Customer Account Manager
Manufacturing Systems
(800)638-3208 Ext. 5242
www.epicor.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lepley, Scott A. [mailto:sal@...]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:17 PM
To: Vantage eGroup (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] ASP Offerings from Epicor

I have three questions for our online Vantage users group:





We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
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choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)