Joe,

I find your posts to be very valuable. One thing that we
all must keep in mind, moderators included, is that this
list is by and for Vantage users. This is not the Epicor
cheer-leading team.

Most of us are running critical business processes on the
back of Vantage. We rely upon the information and support
we get from this group to help us make decisions about
patches, upgrades and functionality.

If on occasion messages seem a bit strident, I'm sure
we're all capable of understanding why. We spend a lot
of money for annual support (a whole lot in our case, much
more than $10K), so we certainly feel we should get our
money's worth.

There are responsive people at Epicor to be sure. Our
sales rep is excellent at cutting through the red tape
for us. Some of the tech support reps our outstanding,
and the people doing the training are well qualified.

But we need a way to keep the heat on Epicor in order for
us to enjoy a mature, well-tested and useful product.
This group is a great way for all users to stay informed.

have fun,
john

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Konecny
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:28 AM
> To: Vantage List; mike@...;
> vzone@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] bad testing

Nothing I post is epicor bashing. When there's a problem
you'd better believe that I'm going to tell everyone.
If there's a design flaw, poor logic or bad decisions... I'm
going to tell everyone. Many users pay $10,000+ to epicor
each year for support and bug fixes/enhancements. I expect
good value for that money.

I enjoy working with and using vantage but face it... v5 has
serious problems. I'm not going to stand by and let it happen.

Something went wrong at epicor with v5. I don't know who was
responsible but the product was never tested completely. It
was pushed out the door to make a deadline and many of us had
to suffer.

Now many of the bug fixes are half baked also. How many tries
did it take to get the standard cost rollup to work? Take a
read of the fixes since the initial release.

We were pushed into upgrading to v5 so we could have (and pay for)
APS. Now they won't even release APS to us. It was just a
horrible experience and if I can prevent others from the same
then I've done some good. Epicor may or may not be a great
company, I could care less. All I want is to get what I paid for.

Mike England wrote:

>
> Joe -
> Many of your comments lately have been borderline epicor bashing. This one
> crosses the line, and the moderators have to ask you to stop. The
> information you are providing is extremely valuable; the comments, although
> completely true, don't help the list in their negativity. Please try to be
> a bit lighter in your comments in the future.
>
> Mike England
> List Moderator
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
> To: Vantage List <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:27 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] bad testing
>
> >Here's an example of the poor bug fixing/testing procedures at epicor.
> >
> >There was a bug in data collection where the discrepant qty did
> >not prompt you for a reason code. Same in labor entry. They
> >fixed labor entry but not data collection.
> >
> >Someone really needs to take charge up there so things can
> >be fixed once and thoroughly tested.
> >
> >
> >To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >

Joe:

I know exactly how you feel. I was the primary person that selected and pushed for Vantage as our new software to run our company with. I get very upset when things go wrong. Some are seemingly little things to others but are major to me because often I
feel that it makes me look like a moron in front of my boss or co-workers. When I rant online about Epicor, I am ranting (ie: last outburst & subsequent apology).

When I read you statements, it reads like a rant. If it isn't, thats okay by me, but others are more sensitive I guess. I have had a few "talks" from the moderators as well, so you're not alone.

I guess we have to learn to tone it down on the list. It doesn't feel as good when I send only to the "E", but, oh well...

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco

Joe Konecny wrote:

> Nothing I post is epicor bashing. When there's a problem
> you'd better believe that I'm going to tell everyone.
> If there's a design flaw, poor logic or bad decisions... I'm
> going to tell everyone. Many users pay $10,000+ to epicor
> each year for support and bug fixes/enhancements. I expect
> good value for that money.
>
> I enjoy working with and using vantage but face it... v5 has
> serious problems. I'm not going to stand by and let it happen.
>
> Something went wrong at epicor with v5. I don't know who was
> responsible but the product was never tested completely. It
> was pushed out the door to make a deadline and many of us had
> to suffer.
>
> Now many of the bug fixes are half baked also. How many tries
> did it take to get the standard cost rollup to work? Take a
> read of the fixes since the initial release.
>
> We were pushed into upgrading to v5 so we could have (and pay for)
> APS. Now they won't even release APS to us. It was just a
> horrible experience and if I can prevent others from the same
> then I've done some good. Epicor may or may not be a great
> company, I could care less. All I want is to get what I paid for.
>
> Mike England wrote:
> >
> > Joe -
> > Many of your comments lately have been borderline epicor bashing. This one
> > crosses the line, and the moderators have to ask you to stop. The
> > information you are providing is extremely valuable; the comments, although
> > completely true, don't help the list in their negativity. Please try to be
> > a bit lighter in your comments in the future.
> >
> > Mike England
> > List Moderator
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
> > To: Vantage List <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:27 PM
> > Subject: [Vantage] bad testing
> >
> > >Here's an example of the poor bug fixing/testing procedures at epicor.
> > >
> > >There was a bug in data collection where the discrepant qty did
> > >not prompt you for a reason code. Same in labor entry. They
> > >fixed labor entry but not data collection.
> > >
> > >Someone really needs to take charge up there so things can
> > >be fixed once and thoroughly tested.
> > >
> > >
> > >To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
> > linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I usually don't fuel these threads, BUT
I appreciate Joe's honest comments regarding V5. I sent a list
of enhancements that my users could expect when I received the
program CD and told them that it would be few months before
we migrated to the upgrade. Were it not for the accurate
assessment that Joe provided, I would be living in hell
because of the problems he's uncovered. He's right, Epicor
should not have rushed this version to market in its current
state. Those of us who blow our horns for Epicor look like
idiots when a version upgrade has so many problems. In my
opinion, the people at Epicor are adults and should expect
this kind of criticism when they launch an upgrade with
so many holes. Keep up the good work Joe, I really appreciate
it. AND, I am staying with version 4. for the forseeable
future.

I totally agree. I came to this group for support and guidance with
Vantage, from fellow users, with both technical and non-technical
backgrounds. I appreciate the valuable information and comments from
the group, including Joe. I personally don't think anyone's
*negative* comments detract any from the group at all. I prefer and
appreciate the honesty. As a programmer, I also have my Epicor pet-
peeves. To not thoroughly test software before releasing it to users
is a major mistake.

Thanks, Joe!

Denise Brown

--- In vantage@y..., PLAMAN DICK <dick.plaman@T...> wrote:
> I usually don't fuel these threads, BUT
> I appreciate Joe's honest comments regarding V5. I sent a list
> of enhancements that my users could expect when I received the
> program CD and told them that it would be few months before
> we migrated to the upgrade. Were it not for the accurate
> assessment that Joe provided, I would be living in hell
> because of the problems he's uncovered. He's right, Epicor
> should not have rushed this version to market in its current
> state. Those of us who blow our horns for Epicor look like
> idiots when a version upgrade has so many problems. In my
> opinion, the people at Epicor are adults and should expect
> this kind of criticism when they launch an upgrade with
> so many holes. Keep up the good work Joe, I really appreciate
> it. AND, I am staying with version 4. for the forseeable
> future.

More support here, I spec'd, sourced, proposed and implemented Vantage,
seems to me if the wheel comes off my M.D. is justified in looking to me for
answers. Q.E.D.

Regards to all and Power to People
Chris Reed

This is a personal opinion and may not represent the views of Professional
Welding Services Limited.

-----Original Message-----
From: dbrown@... [mailto:dbrown@...]
Sent: Monday 09 April, 2001 15:06
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: bad testing

I totally agree. I came to this group for support and guidance with
Vantage, from fellow users, with both technical and non-technical
backgrounds. I appreciate the valuable information and comments from
the group, including Joe. I personally don't think anyone's
*negative* comments detract any from the group at all. I prefer and
appreciate the honesty. As a programmer, I also have my Epicor pet-
peeves. To not thoroughly test software before releasing it to users
is a major mistake.

Thanks, Joe!

Denise Brown

--- In vantage@y..., PLAMAN DICK <dick.plaman@T...> wrote:
> I usually don't fuel these threads, BUT
> I appreciate Joe's honest comments regarding V5. I sent a list
> of enhancements that my users could expect when I received the
> program CD and told them that it would be few months before
> we migrated to the upgrade. Were it not for the accurate
> assessment that Joe provided, I would be living in hell
> because of the problems he's uncovered. He's right, Epicor
> should not have rushed this version to market in its current
> state. Those of us who blow our horns for Epicor look like
> idiots when a version upgrade has so many problems. In my
> opinion, the people at Epicor are adults and should expect
> this kind of criticism when they launch an upgrade with
> so many holes. Keep up the good work Joe, I really appreciate
> it. AND, I am staying with version 4. for the forseeable
> future.

Ditto

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Solobay [SMTP:jsolobay@...]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:21 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] bad testing

Better software would make for more relaxed IT personnel, Joe
has only
spoke the true and if a little frustration shows through so be
it.

Joe, thank you for the effort you put in getting your Ver 5
experience out
to the user group.

Best regards,

Jerry Solobay

IS/IT Manager

Ebco Aerospace

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