Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

system · May 24, 2011, 12:39pm

Crystal Report does create temp tables via command feature. The temp table is not created in the database server.

Regards to MS ACCESS vs Crystal - I believe you need to have extensive experience with both programs to come up with conclusion.

At first I thought MS Access was weak in reporting - but as I worked more with it, it turns out to be just as powerful as Crystal. You just need to use the programmer's feature.

Advantage of Crystal is that it can easily be accessible with Vista/Vantage.

Advantage of Access is if you use MS ACCESS GUI as front end to Vista/Vantage.

But overall they are both "Excellent"

My $.02

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> Crystal itself doesn't generate temp tables.
>
>
> Crystal is nothing more than a way to display a bunch of data. For example
> in access, you have Tables, Queries, Forms (Which use Queries, Tables) and
> Reports (which pull data out of said tables or queries)
>
> Crystal is more late the Reports function of MsAccess. You do the queries in
> BAQ's (Business Activity Queries) within Epicor, these generate an XML file
> which you feed to crystal to create the report.
>
> Yes I would asset that any report you write in MsAccess can be written usin
> BAQ and Crystal (With enough patience)
>
> For what is worth, you can use Crystal with MsAccess, simply point Crystal
> to your access DB and you can create reports from there.
>
>
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Todd Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Jose,
> >
> > Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
> > in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
> >
> > Todd G.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of Jose Gomez
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
> >
> > In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
> > reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> > application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> > pain,
> > but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> > reports
> > written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> > integrate it
> > into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents
> >
> > *Jose C Gomez*
> > *Software Engineer*
> > *
> > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > E: jose@...
> > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> > <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> > <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> >
> > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> > Reports
> > > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
> > the
> > > most basic report?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Todd Gilbert
> > > GCM, Inc.
> > > Vantage 6.1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> > and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

system · March 22, 2011, 4:08pm

Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal Reports would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but the most basic report?

Thanks!

Todd Gilbert
GCM, Inc.
Vantage 6.1

system · March 22, 2011, 4:16pm

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal Reports
> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but the
> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 4:26pm

Jose,

Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?

Todd G.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
Reports
> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
the
> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

system · March 22, 2011, 4:34pm

I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.

Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
it's rock-solid.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Jose,

Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?

Todd G.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal

Reports

> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but

the

> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 4:35pm

Crystal itself doesn't generate temp tables.

Crystal is nothing more than a way to display a bunch of data. For example
in access, you have Tables, Queries, Forms (Which use Queries, Tables) and
Reports (which pull data out of said tables or queries)

Crystal is more late the Reports function of MsAccess. You do the queries in
BAQ's (Business Activity Queries) within Epicor, these generate an XML file
which you feed to crystal to create the report.

Yes I would asset that any report you write in MsAccess can be written usin
BAQ and Crystal (With enough patience)

For what is worth, you can use Crystal with MsAccess, simply point Crystal
to your access DB and you can create reports from there.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Todd Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
> > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
> the
> > most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 4:38pm

Vic you are right that Crystal can't do some of the stuff that access does,
but that's bc Crystal is just a reporting tool, while access attempts to
play in all fields (DB, Query Designer and Even UI)

However the Reporting Side (Actual honest to God reports) I would wager you
can do the same if not more with Crystal

I agree with you that going with SQL Or Progress and using BAQ's, Stored
Procedures or a combination there off, is a solid solution.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Vic Drecchio <vic.drecchio@...>wrote:

>
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
> > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
> the
> > most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 4:47pm

Vic,

By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.

Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
it's rock-solid.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Jose,

Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?

Todd G.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal

Reports

> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but

the

> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 4:52pm

Todd
You wouldn't use SQL Sever if you were using Progress its either or. Unless
you buy the replication server and then you can SQL Server for reporting
purposes only.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Todd Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Vic,
>
> By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
> Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)
>
> Todd
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
>
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
> > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
> the
> > most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 5:00pm

Yeah, exactly what Jose said. If you are a Progress customer,
unfortunately your back-end magic is limited due to the archaic Progress
database and admin interface (OK, I'm ready for all you Progress lovers
to start attacking me). :-)

I couldn't imagine doing my job with a Progress database. SQL is the
only choice IMO.

You could, technically, use SQL Server or SQL Server Express and link to
the Progress database via ODBC to do data mining, forensics, etc....
Back in the day when I was Progress I'd use Access or Excel to do my
"back end" forensics and troubleshooting. What a pain.

So nice to have SQL and run a few SQL queries to see WTH is going on
when you have problems/questions/ etc.

Derailed this conversation (sorry), but I will say Crystal Reports is
10x the reporting tool that Access is. Nothing compares AFAIK.

Vic

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Vic,

By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.

Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
it's rock-solid.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Jose,

Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?

Todd G.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal

Reports

> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but

the

> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 22, 2011, 5:26pm

I will let the progress comments slide ;-)
But I will agree that if you don't have much experience Sql is the better
choice

Sent from mobile

On Mar 22, 2011 5:00 PM, "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...> wrote:
> Yeah, exactly what Jose said. If you are a Progress customer,
> unfortunately your back-end magic is limited due to the archaic Progress
> database and admin interface (OK, I'm ready for all you Progress lovers
> to start attacking me). :-)
>
>
>
> I couldn't imagine doing my job with a Progress database. SQL is the
> only choice IMO.
>
>
>
> You could, technically, use SQL Server or SQL Server Express and link to
> the Progress database via ODBC to do data mining, forensics, etc....
> Back in the day when I was Progress I'd use Access or Excel to do my
> "back end" forensics and troubleshooting. What a pain.
>
>
>
> So nice to have SQL and run a few SQL queries to see WTH is going on
> when you have problems/questions/ etc.
>
>
>
> Derailed this conversation (sorry), but I will say Crystal Reports is
> 10x the reporting tool that Access is. Nothing compares AFAIK.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:47 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
>
>
>
>
> Vic,
>
> By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
> Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)
>
> Todd
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
>> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
> the
>> most basic report?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Todd Gilbert
>> GCM, Inc.
>> Vantage 6.1
>>
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 23, 2011, 3:45am

Crystal over Access.

Well for anything using the customer table you'll need Crystal, unless you use the ODBC embedded query which really slows down the report.

If its not a requirement to print it, I prefer using excel so they can manipulate the data easily.

Like most things its down to preference and experience with a tool.

My 2p.

Wayne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 23, 2011, 9:51am

I agree with Vic. IMO, and IMC (In my case.... HA, just thought of that), Access is more of a Data Management tool and Crystal is designed specifically as a Reporting tool; I even utilize Access as my data-source for Crystal for some tasks.

I know Access has Reporting capabilities, forms design and obviously the 100%/user friendly interface with the more commercial software..... but Crystal is a more robust Reporting tool, especially when you require graphical elements and formatting.

Regards.

Roel Martinez
ERP Analyst

SABRE TUBULAR STRUCTURES (tm)
www.sabretubularstructures.com<http://www.sabretubularstructures.com/>
8653 E. Hwy 67 | Alvarado, TX 76009
Phone: 817-852-1700 ext. 11858 | Direct Line: 817-852-1858 |Fax: 817-852-1705

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:00 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Yeah, exactly what Jose said. If you are a Progress customer,
unfortunately your back-end magic is limited due to the archaic Progress
database and admin interface (OK, I'm ready for all you Progress lovers
to start attacking me). :-)

I couldn't imagine doing my job with a Progress database. SQL is the
only choice IMO.

You could, technically, use SQL Server or SQL Server Express and link to
the Progress database via ODBC to do data mining, forensics, etc....
Back in the day when I was Progress I'd use Access or Excel to do my
"back end" forensics and troubleshooting. What a pain.

So nice to have SQL and run a few SQL queries to see WTH is going on
when you have problems/questions/ etc.

Derailed this conversation (sorry), but I will say Crystal Reports is
10x the reporting tool that Access is. Nothing compares AFAIK.

Vic

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Vic,

By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)

Todd

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that you
can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but IMO
it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.

Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
it's rock-solid.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Jose,

Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be generated
in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?

Todd G.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com> <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
<mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal

Reports

> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but

the

> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · March 24, 2011, 11:58am

You are mistaken my friend. Access is much more powerful than Crystal
which is a piece of junk - like you said it's a giant pain. I've spent
about 500 hours using Crystal and much more with Access - give me Access
any day of the week.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:16 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a real
reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
pain,
but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
reports
written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
integrate it
into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.

Just my 2 cents

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...> wrote:

>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
Reports
> would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but
the
> most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

system · March 24, 2011, 12:02pm

I've written over 100 Crystal reports and over 1000 Access reports.
There is nothing in Crystal that I can't do in Access - and generally do
it quicker.
Lon

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Vic you are right that Crystal can't do some of the stuff that access
does,
but that's bc Crystal is just a reporting tool, while access attempts to
play in all fields (DB, Query Designer and Even UI)

However the Reporting Side (Actual honest to God reports) I would wager
you
can do the same if not more with Crystal

I agree with you that going with SQL Or Progress and using BAQ's, Stored
Procedures or a combination there off, is a solid solution.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Vic Drecchio
<vic.drecchio@...>wrote:

>
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that

you

> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but

IMO

> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be

generated

> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]

On

> Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a

real

> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
> > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything

but

> the
> > most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

system · March 24, 2011, 3:33pm

For me it's the other way around. I use Crystal for basic reports and MS Access for complex reports. Crystal does a fine job of simple, linked table reports. The BAQ language itself is very limited, compared to MS Access or SQL queries. It drives me nuts that you can't use wildcard characters in BAQs.

I love both and there are workarounds to prevent "dragging the DB to its knees". For years I was told how badly your database performance would degrade when you ODBC to it but from personal experience, my Access reports are usually MUCH faster than the crystal ones. When I build Access databases with MANY queries I usually import a subset of data into access when the DB starts. This makes your queries run much faster. Otherwise, I've found that if you chain enough queries together, it will time out.

As others have probably mentioned, there are some Vantage fields that are too large for ODBC/Access to handle but once you figure out which tables they are and how to create a view you can work around them.

You can also use MS Access to combine multiple datasources, which we do frequently. We have several databases that track data outside of Vantage's capabilities but we still farm some of the data out of Vantage.

My $0.02

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, tgilbert@... wrote:
>
> Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal Reports would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but the most basic report?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Todd Gilbert
> GCM, Inc.
> Vantage 6.1
>

system · March 25, 2011, 8:37am

Agreed.

Both programs have strengths and weaknesses, but I can create much more complex data analysis programs in Access that I can in Crystal. Combine that with a user friendly UI and automation possibilities through code and macros and Access is far from a useless toy. Crystal does have some advantages though.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "brucewbrannan" <bruce.brannan@...> wrote:
>
> For me it's the other way around. I use Crystal for basic reports and MS Access for complex reports. Crystal does a fine job of simple, linked table reports. The BAQ language itself is very limited, compared to MS Access or SQL queries. It drives me nuts that you can't use wildcard characters in BAQs.
>
> I love both and there are workarounds to prevent "dragging the DB to its knees". For years I was told how badly your database performance would degrade when you ODBC to it but from personal experience, my Access reports are usually MUCH faster than the crystal ones. When I build Access databases with MANY queries I usually import a subset of data into access when the DB starts. This makes your queries run much faster. Otherwise, I've found that if you chain enough queries together, it will time out.
>
> As others have probably mentioned, there are some Vantage fields that are too large for ODBC/Access to handle but once you figure out which tables they are and how to create a view you can work around them.
>
> You can also use MS Access to combine multiple datasources, which we do frequently. We have several databases that track data outside of Vantage's capabilities but we still farm some of the data out of Vantage.
>
> My $0.02
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, tgilbert@ wrote:
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal Reports would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything but the most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
>

system · March 25, 2011, 10:16am

I didn't anticipate such an emotional topic! Now I don't feel so bad
about going around and around with our network admin.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Todd G.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of B_Stinger
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 5:38 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Agreed.

Both programs have strengths and weaknesses, but I can create much more
complex data analysis programs in Access that I can in Crystal. Combine
that with a user friendly UI and automation possibilities through code
and macros and Access is far from a useless toy. Crystal does have some
advantages though.

Brian

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"brucewbrannan" <bruce.brannan@...> wrote:

>
> For me it's the other way around. I use Crystal for basic reports and

MS Access for complex reports. Crystal does a fine job of simple, linked
table reports. The BAQ language itself is very limited, compared to MS
Access or SQL queries. It drives me nuts that you can't use wildcard
characters in BAQs.

>
> I love both and there are workarounds to prevent "dragging the DB to

its knees". For years I was told how badly your database performance
would degrade when you ODBC to it but from personal experience, my
Access reports are usually MUCH faster than the crystal ones. When I
build Access databases with MANY queries I usually import a subset of
data into access when the DB starts. This makes your queries run much
faster. Otherwise, I've found that if you chain enough queries together,
it will time out.

>
> As others have probably mentioned, there are some Vantage fields that

are too large for ODBC/Access to handle but once you figure out which
tables they are and how to create a view you can work around them.

>
> You can also use MS Access to combine multiple datasources, which we

do frequently. We have several databases that track data outside of
Vantage's capabilities but we still farm some of the data out of
Vantage.

>
> My $0.02
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,

tgilbert@ wrote:

> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal

Reports would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for
anything but the most basic report?

> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · April 5, 2011, 10:52am

Sorry to reopen a somewhat painful topic...I am interested in getting
some detail on what it would take to copy our Vantage 6.1 Progress
database into a SQL Server database in order to take advantage of its
reporting tools.

Is this where a SQL Replication Server would be employed? I only see
"replication server" mentioned on the Epicor site in the context of
E9.05.

I would like to set up a Data Warehouse of sorts in a SQL Server
database using filtered data from our Progress database. I know I can
do this with Access so I assume I can do it with SQL Server.

Any info is much appreciated.

Todd Gilbert
GCM, Inc.
Vantage 6.1

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:52 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Todd
You wouldn't use SQL Sever if you were using Progress its either or.
Unless
you buy the replication server and then you can SQL Server for reporting
purposes only.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Todd Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
wrote:

>
>
> Vic,
>
> By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
> Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)
>
> Todd
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
>
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that

you

> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but

IMO

> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ]

On

> Behalf
> Of Todd Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:26 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> Jose,
>
> Would you assert that any report written in MS Access could be

generated

> in Crystal? Does Crystal allow for the creation of temp tables?
>
> Todd G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Jose Gomez
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> In 8 and 9 Crystal is the default choice... Ms Access is not even a

real

> reporting tool, mostly a toy, wouldn't use it in a huge enterprise
> application... The advantages of crystal are endless. Sure its a giant
> pain,
> but if you are progress based ODBC is kinda flaky, also having the
> reports
> written using BAQ's and Crystal ensures that you can seamlessly
> integrate it
> into the application. Using ODBC wrong can bring your DB to its knees.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:07 PM, <tgilbert@...
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com>
> <mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone can tell me a reason that Crystal
> Reports
> > would be the preferred reporting tool over MS Access for anything

but

> the
> > most basic report?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Todd Gilbert
> > GCM, Inc.
> > Vantage 6.1
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

)

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

system · April 5, 2011, 11:33am

We use the SQL reporting tools (SSRS) with Vantage 6.1 for the same
reasons, but we don't use replication server. We have several DTS
packages (DTS in SQL Server 2000, renamed to something I can't remember
in later versions) that pulls data from the 6.1 Progress database via
ODBC and copies it into temporary tables in the SQL database. If you're
using ODBC via MS Access right now, it's the same concept, same driver &
DSN. Our SSRS reports pull data from those temporary tables. Most of
the DTS packages are scheduled nightly (works well) and a few are
on-demand, executed from a stored procedure that provides the report
data (works, but slow).

Contact me off-list if you want more details or examples.

In Epicor 9 (in testing, going live soon!), we choose to have a SQL
backend database, to avoid all these DTS packages. Our SSRS reports
converted pretty smoothly.

Brian.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:53 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Replication Server (Was "Benefits of Crystal Reports
over MS Access?")

Sorry to reopen a somewhat painful topic...I am interested in getting
some detail on what it would take to copy our Vantage 6.1 Progress
database into a SQL Server database in order to take advantage of its
reporting tools.

Is this where a SQL Replication Server would be employed? I only see
"replication server" mentioned on the Epicor site in the context of
E9.05.

I would like to set up a Data Warehouse of sorts in a SQL Server
database using filtered data from our Progress database. I know I can
do this with Access so I assume I can do it with SQL Server.

Any info is much appreciated.

Todd Gilbert
GCM, Inc.
Vantage 6.1

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Jose Gomez
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:52 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?

Todd
You wouldn't use SQL Sever if you were using Progress its either or.
Unless
you buy the replication server and then you can SQL Server for reporting
purposes only.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@... <mailto:jose%40josecgomez.com>
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez>
<http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez>
<http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Todd Gilbert <tgilbert@...
<mailto:tgilbert%40gcmfg.com> >
wrote:

>
>
> Vic,
>
> By SQL, do you mean SQL Server tools? If so, how does that work with a
> Progress db? (Sorry...I'm relatively new to all of this.)
>
> Todd
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Vic Drecchio
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:34 PM
>
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Benefits of Crystal Reports over MS Access?
>
> I would argue there are things you can't do in Crystal Reports that

you

> can do in MS Access and vice-versa. The things that MSA cannot do are
> not relevant to me architecting reports. Crystal Reports is a refined
> and robust reporting tool and MSA is more than a reporting tool but

IMO

> it's not as powerful as Crystal Reports on the reporting side.
>
> Combine Crystal Reports with SQL (using views, stored procs, UDFs) and
> it's rock-solid.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>