Configurator Issue

There was a memory leak that I noticed starting with 5.1, but I never
thought that it had anything to do with Excel. Thank you, that's good to
know.

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Amilbangsa [mailto:gil.amilbangsa@...]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 5:34 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] RE: Configurator Issue


Oleg,
Oops, I forgot to say that the problems with converting the files from 5.1
to 5.2 had nothing to do with the configurator. There was supposed to be
some other corrupt data somewhere and Epicor is "looking into" the database
copy sent to them. Long story, but not related with the configurator.

I certainly agree with your observation of the configurator's behaviour as
complexity increases. I've been testing multi-level configurators with
phantom assemblies, non Part Master parts and multi-stage configurators. If
you're not careful how the BOMs and rules are structured, expect unexpected
results. Or you get no results at all, as in the system hangs.

I've come across problems re assuming the system automatically recognizes
that a returned value is a string or number. It happens sometimes when
typing in an expression directly using the free-form editor and the first
time I used the ExcelLook-up feature. The syntax checker will say OK, but
the results are sometimes funny or the computer will pause for a very long
time before returning with an unexpected result or error message. I remember
tracing the problem back to the fact that a sub-expression is returning a
string and I am trying to evaluate it as a number, or vice-versa.

Just an additional question while we are on the subject, have you noticed
Excel staying open and resident in memory after running a configurator with
an ExcelLookup statement? I have this recurring problem with my computer
running out of memory/resources after running configurators with multiple
ExcelLookup statements. Epicor knows about it but has not come-up with an
answer except to run the latest MS versions and service packs.

Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:28:52 -0400
From: Oleg Tumarkin <olegt@...>
Subject: RE:

Gill,

First of all, what do you mean by having to reenter detail during the
conversion to 5.2? IF you mean what I think you mean there a few companies
out there who simply could not afford to convert. I want to know all the
details about this issue.

Now to answer your question why Configurator sometimes acts in ways other
then you would expect while it is working great for you here are some
thoughts:
Usually, the problems start increasing with increased complexity, such as
multi-level BOM, or data that is used for many parallel calculations, also I
noticed that sometimes while the configurator tests out well in the
real-time mode it sometimes does not correctly do certain things like
updating fields and/or flags, especially if they are updated somewhere else
in the program already.
In the given case it was a specific bug that I ran into before that had to
do with the type of inputs that were used to generate the variables and Keep
When not being able to handle it properly, I don't know the exact cause of
the problem, but what we did to avoid it was one of the normal workarounds
when the configurator starts being goofy.
One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting
different results, but alas sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Hope this helps,

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Amilbangsa [mailto:gil.amilbangsa@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:05 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] RE: Configurator Issue


John/Oleg/Jeff,
I've used the Keep When + Logical OR expression numerous times and came up
with correct results. So I am curious why you are having this problem.

Just to test, I set-up the following in a test part in line with John's. To
test a couple of ways to get the results, 2 materials are set-up with
different, but congruent rules:
Input: FILL-IN-1, String x(3)
Rules:
SeriesB = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(1.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesC = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesD = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(3.00),Integer(1.00))

Material1- Keep When (((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") Or ((SeriesC + SeriesD) =
"10"))
Material2 - Keep When (((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) =
"10") Or ((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) = "11"))

Ran Test Rules withinputs 610, 611, 612, 613. Results for both rules were as
expected. So there does not appear to be a problem with the evaluation of
logical expressions in the configurator.

We tested most of our configurator stuff in 5.10.128 and below. Had a bit of
strife converting files to 5.20 and had to re-enter all the configurator
details to continue our testing. The configurator is the same, exhibits the
same behaviour, including the "buggy interface". The new check-out process
is a bit irritating at times because you have to approve, check-in and then
unapprove a revision before you can work in the configurator.

Any thoughts on why our systems appear to behave differently with regard to
handling these logical statements?


Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

PS. Using the Calculation rule to store the result of a commonly used
expression as a variable is a very good idea. Like Jeff, I found this
simplifies building expressions a lot. If the expression is used only once,
I generally use it directly as a sub-expression.

________________________________________________________________________

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to return a
result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
anyone been successful in using an OR statement?


Thanks in advance

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John,

One thing you can check is what inputs you're using, as odd as it may be the
type of the input matters. For testing purposes do an OR statement that has
to be true like "TRUE OR FALSE".

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walter [mailto:john.w@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:22 PM
To: Vantage, User Group
Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to return a
result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
anyone been successful in using an OR statement?


Thanks in advance

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks to all for the responses,

I wrote from memory and used the term Keep With and should have said Keep
When. I have a programmer on board who could probably explain the problem
better than I, but it goes like this

1. We have a 5000 Series Configuration.
2. We enter the last 3 characters of the series to make it eg 5610 or
perhaps 5511.
3. The last 3 characters define variations on the product.
4. The last 3 characters are then defined as SeriesB, SeriesC and SeriesD

For a part we set up a Keep When Rule

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11")

This returns a result when we enter x10 as per 2. above but fails if we
enter x11
We reversed the order as per

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10")

In this case it also finds the 10 but not the 11. We have tried all
variations on this eg 11 and 12 with nil for both, 10 & 20 - find 10 only,
11 & 20 - nil for both etc. It only finds 10???

We then stripped the rule down to

((SeriesD = "0") OR (SeriesD) = "1"))

Nil result for both!!!

We have tried writing the rule various ways and syntax checker confirms our
syntax with no change in the result.

Any advice on this is valued as it is central to the success of the
Configurator.


Regards

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Glaze [mailto:JGlaze@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 5:56 AM
To: 'john.w@...'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


[Jeff Glaze] Hi John-

The product configurator is a bit fussy, and complicated 'or'
statements or multiple logical (either/or and) just can't get followed. The
better way is the set a variable and then say 'keep when' for that variable.
That style 'keep when' works much better and is simpler. I've also found
that I set a few of those variables early in a configuration and use them
over and over, so you don't have to worry about writing complex calculations
all through a configuration. I have had success asking for two variables of
specific values (ie Keep when x and y), but I'm probably pushing my luck.
The product configurator is very linear and very simple for logical
statements.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm not great
at it, but I'm finding my way around.

Jeff Glaze



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walter [SMTP:john.w@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:22 PM
> To: Vantage, User Group
> Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue
>
> We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to return
> a
> result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
> anyone been successful in using an OR statement?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John Walter
> Systems Administrator
> Hufcor Pty Ltd
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Like Jeff mentioned before do the calculation in the body and store it in a
variable, then use the variable alone in the Keep When statement.
When you test your rules does it compute it properly?
Where does the variable seriesD come from? Is it based on an input using
buttons or dropdown list or something else? If so, try different type of
input.
Sometimes you have to unapprove and reaprove, get out of Vantage client
and/or even reboot the database to clear up weird inconsistencies of compile
vs. real-time.

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walter [mailto:john.w@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:35 PM
To: Vantage, User Group
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Thanks to all for the responses,

I wrote from memory and used the term Keep With and should have said Keep
When. I have a programmer on board who could probably explain the problem
better than I, but it goes like this

1. We have a 5000 Series Configuration.
2. We enter the last 3 characters of the series to make it eg 5610 or
perhaps 5511.
3. The last 3 characters define variations on the product.
4. The last 3 characters are then defined as SeriesB, SeriesC and SeriesD

For a part we set up a Keep When Rule

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11")

This returns a result when we enter x10 as per 2. above but fails if we
enter x11
We reversed the order as per

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10")

In this case it also finds the 10 but not the 11. We have tried all
variations on this eg 11 and 12 with nil for both, 10 & 20 - find 10 only,
11 & 20 - nil for both etc. It only finds 10???

We then stripped the rule down to

((SeriesD = "0") OR (SeriesD) = "1"))

Nil result for both!!!

We have tried writing the rule various ways and syntax checker confirms our
syntax with no change in the result.

Any advice on this is valued as it is central to the success of the
Configurator.


Regards

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Glaze [mailto:JGlaze@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 5:56 AM
To: 'john.w@...'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


[Jeff Glaze] Hi John-

The product configurator is a bit fussy, and complicated 'or'
statements or multiple logical (either/or and) just can't get followed. The
better way is the set a variable and then say 'keep when' for that variable.
That style 'keep when' works much better and is simpler. I've also found
that I set a few of those variables early in a configuration and use them
over and over, so you don't have to worry about writing complex calculations
all through a configuration. I have had success asking for two variables of
specific values (ie Keep when x and y), but I'm probably pushing my luck.
The product configurator is very linear and very simple for logical
statements.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm not great
at it, but I'm finding my way around.

Jeff Glaze



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walter [SMTP:john.w@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:22 PM
> To: Vantage, User Group
> Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue
>
> We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to return
> a
> result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
> anyone been successful in using an OR statement?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John Walter
> Systems Administrator
> Hufcor Pty Ltd
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Jeff and Oleg, storing the calculation in a variable has solved the
problem and restored our confidence. Variable SeriesD is created using the
store substring rule based on an input.

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: Oleg Tumarkin [mailto:olegt@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 1:57 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Like Jeff mentioned before do the calculation in the body and store it in
a
variable, then use the variable alone in the Keep When statement.
When you test your rules does it compute it properly?
Where does the variable seriesD come from? Is it based on an input using
buttons or dropdown list or something else? If so, try different type of
input.
Sometimes you have to unapprove and reaprove, get out of Vantage client
and/or even reboot the database to clear up weird inconsistencies of
compile
vs. real-time.

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walter [mailto:john.w@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:35 PM
To: Vantage, User Group
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Thanks to all for the responses,

I wrote from memory and used the term Keep With and should have said Keep
When. I have a programmer on board who could probably explain the problem
better than I, but it goes like this

1. We have a 5000 Series Configuration.
2. We enter the last 3 characters of the series to make it eg 5610 or
perhaps 5511.
3. The last 3 characters define variations on the product.
4. The last 3 characters are then defined as SeriesB, SeriesC and SeriesD

For a part we set up a Keep When Rule

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11")

This returns a result when we enter x10 as per 2. above but fails if we
enter x11
We reversed the order as per

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10")

In this case it also finds the 10 but not the 11. We have tried all
variations on this eg 11 and 12 with nil for both, 10 & 20 - find 10 only,
11 & 20 - nil for both etc. It only finds 10???

We then stripped the rule down to

((SeriesD = "0") OR (SeriesD) = "1"))

Nil result for both!!!

We have tried writing the rule various ways and syntax checker confirms
our
syntax with no change in the result.

Any advice on this is valued as it is central to the success of the
Configurator.


Regards

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Glaze [mailto:JGlaze@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 5:56 AM
To: 'john.w@...'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


[Jeff Glaze] Hi John-

The product configurator is a bit fussy, and complicated 'or'
statements or multiple logical (either/or and) just can't get followed.
The
better way is the set a variable and then say 'keep when' for that
variable.
That style 'keep when' works much better and is simpler. I've also found
that I set a few of those variables early in a configuration and use them
over and over, so you don't have to worry about writing complex
calculations
all through a configuration. I have had success asking for two variables
of
specific values (ie Keep when x and y), but I'm probably pushing my luck.
The product configurator is very linear and very simple for logical
statements.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm not great
at it, but I'm finding my way around.

Jeff Glaze



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walter [SMTP:john.w@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:22 PM
> To: Vantage, User Group
> Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue
>
> We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to
return
> a
> result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
> anyone been successful in using an OR statement?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John Walter
> Systems Administrator
> Hufcor Pty Ltd
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>



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www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?ad=Yahoo01>


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l/S=:HM/A=1225251/rand=660377322>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John/Oleg/Jeff,
I've used the Keep When + Logical OR expression numerous times and came up with correct results. So I am curious why you are having this problem.

Just to test, I set-up the following in a test part in line with John's. To test a couple of ways to get the results, 2 materials are set-up with different, but congruent rules:
Input: FILL-IN-1, String x(3)
Rules:
SeriesB = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(1.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesC = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesD = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(3.00),Integer(1.00))

Material1- Keep When (((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") Or ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10"))
Material2 - Keep When (((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) = "10") Or ((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) = "11"))

Ran Test Rules withinputs 610, 611, 612, 613. Results for both rules were as expected. So there does not appear to be a problem with the evaluation of logical expressions in the configurator.

We tested most of our configurator stuff in 5.10.128 and below. Had a bit of strife converting files to 5.20 and had to re-enter all the configurator details to continue our testing. The configurator is the same, exhibits the same behaviour, including the "buggy interface". The new check-out process is a bit irritating at times because you have to approve, check-in and then unapprove a revision before you can work in the configurator.

Any thoughts on why our systems appear to behave differently with regard to handling these logical statements?


Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

PS. Using the Calculation rule to store the result of a commonly used expression as a variable is a very good idea. Like Jeff, I found this simplifies building expressions a lot. If the expression is used only once, I generally use it directly as a sub-expression.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:24:13 +1000
From: "John Walter" <john.w@...>
Subject: RE: Configurator Issue

Thanks Jeff and Oleg, storing the calculation in a variable has solved the
problem and restored our confidence. Variable SeriesD is created using the
store substring rule based on an input.

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: Oleg Tumarkin [mailto:olegt@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 1:57 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Like Jeff mentioned before do the calculation in the body and store it in
a
variable, then use the variable alone in the Keep When statement.
When you test your rules does it compute it properly?
Where does the variable seriesD come from? Is it based on an input using
buttons or dropdown list or something else? If so, try different type of
input.
Sometimes you have to unapprove and reaprove, get out of Vantage client
and/or even reboot the database to clear up weird inconsistencies of
compile
vs. real-time.

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walter [mailto:john.w@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:35 PM
To: Vantage, User Group
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Thanks to all for the responses,

I wrote from memory and used the term Keep With and should have said Keep
When. I have a programmer on board who could probably explain the problem
better than I, but it goes like this

1. We have a 5000 Series Configuration.
2. We enter the last 3 characters of the series to make it eg 5610 or
perhaps 5511.
3. The last 3 characters define variations on the product.
4. The last 3 characters are then defined as SeriesB, SeriesC and SeriesD

For a part we set up a Keep When Rule

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11")

This returns a result when we enter x10 as per 2. above but fails if we
enter x11
We reversed the order as per

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10")

In this case it also finds the 10 but not the 11. We have tried all
variations on this eg 11 and 12 with nil for both, 10 & 20 - find 10 only,
11 & 20 - nil for both etc. It only finds 10???

We then stripped the rule down to

((SeriesD = "0") OR (SeriesD) = "1"))

Nil result for both!!!

We have tried writing the rule various ways and syntax checker confirms
our
syntax with no change in the result.

Any advice on this is valued as it is central to the success of the
Configurator.


Regards

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Glaze [mailto:JGlaze@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 5:56 AM
To: 'john.w@...'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


[Jeff Glaze] Hi John-

The product configurator is a bit fussy, and complicated 'or'
statements or multiple logical (either/or and) just can't get followed.
The
better way is the set a variable and then say 'keep when' for that
variable.
That style 'keep when' works much better and is simpler. I've also found
that I set a few of those variables early in a configuration and use them
over and over, so you don't have to worry about writing complex
calculations
all through a configuration. I have had success asking for two variables
of
specific values (ie Keep when x and y), but I'm probably pushing my luck.
The product configurator is very linear and very simple for logical
statements.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm not great
at it, but I'm finding my way around.

Jeff Glaze



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walter [SMTP:john.w@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:22 PM
> To: Vantage, User Group
> Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue
>
> We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to
return
> a
> result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
> anyone been successful in using an OR statement?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John Walter
> Systems Administrator
> Hufcor Pty Ltd
>
Gill,

First of all, what do you mean by having to reenter detail during the
conversion to 5.2? IF you mean what I think you mean there a few companies
out there who simply could not afford to convert. I want to know all the
details about this issue.

Now to answer your question why Configurator sometimes acts in ways other
then you would expect while it is working great for you here are some
thoughts:
Usually, the problems start increasing with increased complexity, such as
multi-level BOM, or data that is used for many parallel calculations, also I
noticed that sometimes while the configurator tests out well in the
real-time mode it sometimes does not correctly do certain things like
updating fields and/or flags, especially if they are updated somewhere else
in the program already.
In the given case it was a specific bug that I ran into before that had to
do with the type of inputs that were used to generate the variables and Keep
When not being able to handle it properly, I don't know the exact cause of
the problem, but what we did to avoid it was one of the normal workarounds
when the configurator starts being goofy.
One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting
different results, but alas sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Hope this helps,

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Amilbangsa [mailto:gil.amilbangsa@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:05 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] RE: Configurator Issue


John/Oleg/Jeff,
I've used the Keep When + Logical OR expression numerous times and came up
with correct results. So I am curious why you are having this problem.

Just to test, I set-up the following in a test part in line with John's. To
test a couple of ways to get the results, 2 materials are set-up with
different, but congruent rules:
Input: FILL-IN-1, String x(3)
Rules:
SeriesB = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(1.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesC = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesD = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(3.00),Integer(1.00))

Material1- Keep When (((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") Or ((SeriesC + SeriesD) =
"10"))
Material2 - Keep When (((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) =
"10") Or ((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) = "11"))

Ran Test Rules withinputs 610, 611, 612, 613. Results for both rules were as
expected. So there does not appear to be a problem with the evaluation of
logical expressions in the configurator.

We tested most of our configurator stuff in 5.10.128 and below. Had a bit of
strife converting files to 5.20 and had to re-enter all the configurator
details to continue our testing. The configurator is the same, exhibits the
same behaviour, including the "buggy interface". The new check-out process
is a bit irritating at times because you have to approve, check-in and then
unapprove a revision before you can work in the configurator.

Any thoughts on why our systems appear to behave differently with regard to
handling these logical statements?


Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

PS. Using the Calculation rule to store the result of a commonly used
expression as a variable is a very good idea. Like Jeff, I found this
simplifies building expressions a lot. If the expression is used only once,
I generally use it directly as a sub-expression.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:24:13 +1000
From: "John Walter" <john.w@...>
Subject: RE: Configurator Issue

Thanks Jeff and Oleg, storing the calculation in a variable has solved the
problem and restored our confidence. Variable SeriesD is created using the
store substring rule based on an input.

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: Oleg Tumarkin [mailto:olegt@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 1:57 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Like Jeff mentioned before do the calculation in the body and store it in
a
variable, then use the variable alone in the Keep When statement.
When you test your rules does it compute it properly?
Where does the variable seriesD come from? Is it based on an input using
buttons or dropdown list or something else? If so, try different type of
input.
Sometimes you have to unapprove and reaprove, get out of Vantage client
and/or even reboot the database to clear up weird inconsistencies of
compile
vs. real-time.

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walter [mailto:john.w@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:35 PM
To: Vantage, User Group
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


Thanks to all for the responses,

I wrote from memory and used the term Keep With and should have said Keep
When. I have a programmer on board who could probably explain the problem
better than I, but it goes like this

1. We have a 5000 Series Configuration.
2. We enter the last 3 characters of the series to make it eg 5610 or
perhaps 5511.
3. The last 3 characters define variations on the product.
4. The last 3 characters are then defined as SeriesB, SeriesC and SeriesD

For a part we set up a Keep When Rule

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11")

This returns a result when we enter x10 as per 2. above but fails if we
enter x11
We reversed the order as per

((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") OR ((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "10")

In this case it also finds the 10 but not the 11. We have tried all
variations on this eg 11 and 12 with nil for both, 10 & 20 - find 10 only,
11 & 20 - nil for both etc. It only finds 10???

We then stripped the rule down to

((SeriesD = "0") OR (SeriesD) = "1"))

Nil result for both!!!

We have tried writing the rule various ways and syntax checker confirms
our
syntax with no change in the result.

Any advice on this is valued as it is central to the success of the
Configurator.


Regards

John Walter
Systems Administrator
Hufcor Pty Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Glaze [mailto:JGlaze@...]
Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2002 5:56 AM
To: 'john.w@...'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Configurator Issue


[Jeff Glaze] Hi John-

The product configurator is a bit fussy, and complicated 'or'
statements or multiple logical (either/or and) just can't get followed.
The
better way is the set a variable and then say 'keep when' for that
variable.
That style 'keep when' works much better and is simpler. I've also found
that I set a few of those variables early in a configuration and use them
over and over, so you don't have to worry about writing complex
calculations
all through a configuration. I have had success asking for two variables
of
specific values (ie Keep when x and y), but I'm probably pushing my luck.
The product configurator is very linear and very simple for logical
statements.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm not great
at it, but I'm finding my way around.

Jeff Glaze



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walter [SMTP:john.w@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:22 PM
> To: Vantage, User Group
> Subject: [Vantage] Configurator Issue
>
> We are setting up the Product Configurator (5.1) and are unable to
return
> a
> result from a Keep With Rule that contains a logical OR statement. Has
> anyone been successful in using an OR statement?
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> John Walter
> Systems Administrator
> Hufcor Pty Ltd
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oleg,
Oops, I forgot to say that the problems with converting the files from 5.1 to 5.2 had nothing to do with the configurator. There was supposed to be some other corrupt data somewhere and Epicor is "looking into" the database copy sent to them. Long story, but not related with the configurator.

I certainly agree with your observation of the configurator's behaviour as complexity increases. I've been testing multi-level configurators with phantom assemblies, non Part Master parts and multi-stage configurators. If you're not careful how the BOMs and rules are structured, expect unexpected results. Or you get no results at all, as in the system hangs.

I've come across problems re assuming the system automatically recognizes that a returned value is a string or number. It happens sometimes when typing in an expression directly using the free-form editor and the first time I used the ExcelLook-up feature. The syntax checker will say OK, but the results are sometimes funny or the computer will pause for a very long time before returning with an unexpected result or error message. I remember tracing the problem back to the fact that a sub-expression is returning a string and I am trying to evaluate it as a number, or vice-versa.

Just an additional question while we are on the subject, have you noticed Excel staying open and resident in memory after running a configurator with an ExcelLookup statement? I have this recurring problem with my computer running out of memory/resources after running configurators with multiple ExcelLookup statements. Epicor knows about it but has not come-up with an answer except to run the latest MS versions and service packs.

Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:28:52 -0400
From: Oleg Tumarkin <olegt@...>
Subject: RE:

Gill,

First of all, what do you mean by having to reenter detail during the
conversion to 5.2? IF you mean what I think you mean there a few companies
out there who simply could not afford to convert. I want to know all the
details about this issue.

Now to answer your question why Configurator sometimes acts in ways other
then you would expect while it is working great for you here are some
thoughts:
Usually, the problems start increasing with increased complexity, such as
multi-level BOM, or data that is used for many parallel calculations, also I
noticed that sometimes while the configurator tests out well in the
real-time mode it sometimes does not correctly do certain things like
updating fields and/or flags, especially if they are updated somewhere else
in the program already.
In the given case it was a specific bug that I ran into before that had to
do with the type of inputs that were used to generate the variables and Keep
When not being able to handle it properly, I don't know the exact cause of
the problem, but what we did to avoid it was one of the normal workarounds
when the configurator starts being goofy.
One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting
different results, but alas sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Hope this helps,

Oleg Tumarkin
Intelligent Systems Integration
(330) 335-5291
olegt@...

"Making Intelligent Use of Technology"

-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Amilbangsa [mailto:gil.amilbangsa@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:05 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] RE: Configurator Issue


John/Oleg/Jeff,
I've used the Keep When + Logical OR expression numerous times and came up
with correct results. So I am curious why you are having this problem.

Just to test, I set-up the following in a test part in line with John's. To
test a couple of ways to get the results, 2 materials are set-up with
different, but congruent rules:
Input: FILL-IN-1, String x(3)
Rules:
SeriesB = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(1.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesC = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(1.00))
SeriesD = Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(3.00),Integer(1.00))

Material1- Keep When (((SeriesC + SeriesD) = "11") Or ((SeriesC + SeriesD) =
"10"))
Material2 - Keep When (((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) =
"10") Or ((Substring(FILL-IN-1,Integer(2.00),Integer(2.00))) = "11"))

Ran Test Rules withinputs 610, 611, 612, 613. Results for both rules were as
expected. So there does not appear to be a problem with the evaluation of
logical expressions in the configurator.

We tested most of our configurator stuff in 5.10.128 and below. Had a bit of
strife converting files to 5.20 and had to re-enter all the configurator
details to continue our testing. The configurator is the same, exhibits the
same behaviour, including the "buggy interface". The new check-out process
is a bit irritating at times because you have to approve, check-in and then
unapprove a revision before you can work in the configurator.

Any thoughts on why our systems appear to behave differently with regard to
handling these logical statements?


Gil Amilbangsa
Australian Healthcare Equipment
gil.amilbangsa@...

PS. Using the Calculation rule to store the result of a commonly used
expression as a variable is a very good idea. Like Jeff, I found this
simplifies building expressions a lot. If the expression is used only once,
I generally use it directly as a sub-expression.

________________________________________________________________________