The employee can override his shift to one without the
lunch break -- but only in Office Data Collection -- not Plant Floor Data
Collection.

----- Original Message -----
From: <sarah.vareschi@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Data collection

> We are in the process of changing our system so we process payroll off of
> vantage data (we are currently running dual systems).
>
> We have found a problem and I am wondering how others handle it.
>
> In vantage, data collection is set-up to automatically subtract 1/2 hour
> lunch 12-12:30. Our policy is if you leave the building or take a longer
> lunch, you must clock-out. If an employee punches out for lunch at 12:01
> and punches back in at 12:29, vantage still subtracts the lunch time from
> 12:00-12:01 and from 12:29-12:30. So, we are not paying the employees for
> all their time.
>
> Currently, we are handling this via a report that runs to show anyone that
> punched out or in between 12 and 12:30 and we are adjusting all the lunch
> time. This can be time consuming, so I was wondering if anyone has a
better
> method?
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all of
their own programming and system development in-house during the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Our engineers did a study and found that we are spending $200,000 per year in paying employees to clock through the day. That's 200 some employees spending 15 minutes a day at the time clock - a minimum of 9 punches, more if they switch jobs, at several minutes each time punch (clock in, job in, break out, break in, lunch out, lunch in, break out, break in, clock out). We even have custom programming to make it almost as streamlined as Jim just suggested.

What we are considering is a 'cell' based manufacturing where only the supervisor monitors time at his/her station, with 5 or 6 workers per station. Parts are issued enmass (in complete, sealed crates), and costing for the job is done through mass-issue, and supervisor time entry. We're studying this approach very seriously.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim McKechnie
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 2:17 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all of
their own programming and system development in-house during the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection product (go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan inputs the job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other features that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off the job, this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in real-time because I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything we assume to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way to get past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all of
their own programming and system development in-house during the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It all comes down to: Is the time it takes to gather the information... worth the information (and the reliability of the information) that you get when you're done. In our case, we spend lots of time doing data collection, and many times we find that the data is innaccurate - not due to Vantage so much as getting people to CARE about clocking so that they get the right job, the right quantities, etc. That's the main reason we are considering the Cell approach. We collect THOUSANDS of lines of labor data, only to find we can't depend on it for efficiencies or anything else anyway.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sanders
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection product (go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan inputs the job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other features that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off the job, this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in real-time because I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything we assume to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way to get past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all of
their own programming and system development in-house during the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Troy, you are on target. Our situation with CARE and inaccurate data is
the same.

We currently have a Powder Coat work center that has costing for the
eight people and facility rolled into one rate, with only one person
signing on and off jobs. If we were to make our cells different "Work
Centers" based upon the crew size, then we could put in rates to cost
each work center based upon the number of people in the cell. We could
then have only the cell leaders clock into and out of cell jobs. We
could simply change the work centers as each new and repeat job is
released. In 6 weeks we could be operating the entire shop on that
system. For that matter, we could change the work centers on all jobs
on the floor as well and make an instant change say effective a Monday
morning. This would eliminate confusion as to which jobs should now be
signed on and off only by a cell leader.

This of course still leaves individuals to sign on and off out-of-cell
jobs, but it could reduce lost labor from signing in and out, and data
reporting errors. As most all of our jobs now involve cells, this would
also be fairly easy to implement as well.

Do you see any other problems with changes to cell work centers?

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [SMTP:tfunte@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

It all comes down to: Is the time it takes to gather the
information... worth the information (and the reliability of the
information) that you get when you're done. In our case, we spend lots
of time doing data collection, and many times we find that the data is
innaccurate - not due to Vantage so much as getting people to CARE about
clocking so that they get the right job, the right quantities, etc.
That's the main reason we are considering the Cell approach. We collect
THOUSANDS of lines of labor data, only to find we can't depend on it for
efficiencies or anything else anyway.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sanders
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data
Collection product (go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan
inputs the job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other
features that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off
the job, this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities
were completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in
real-time because I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the
production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges
anything we assume to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a
way to get past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of
today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility
and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was
spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about
all of
their own programming and system development in-house during
the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps
created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It
wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent
just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say
this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are
going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps.
An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You
would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the
previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log
into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut
it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is
running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it
is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an
option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous
job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment,
when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest
Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their
employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee
new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the
employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and
the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer
in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no
management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary
to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this
group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the
employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has
to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence.
We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot
department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added
into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but
they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original
version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom
modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You
must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

We have been struggling with this issue too,
We thought if we treat the workcenter as if it were the employees add an
average labor amount based on average amount of employees working on that
machine, and assign a line leader to log the WorkCenter in and out, we make
one person accountable for qty's and one at the data systems to log in and
out of jobs.

Pro's
1. Accurate time of Workcenter running on each job (Burden Correct)
2. Quantities more accurate (1) person accountable at workcenter
3. No wasting time at Data terminals
4. Better analysis of workcenter load

Con's
1. Accountability of each employee
2. Each Employee Efficiencies not trackable
3. Supervisors more responsible keeping track of employees

Please let me know what you think
Thank You

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

It all comes down to: Is the time it takes to gather the information...
worth the information (and the reliability of the information) that you get
when you're done. In our case, we spend lots of time doing data collection,
and many times we find that the data is innaccurate - not due to Vantage so
much as getting people to CARE about clocking so that they get the right
job, the right quantities, etc. That's the main reason we are considering
the Cell approach. We collect THOUSANDS of lines of labor data, only to find
we can't depend on it for efficiencies or anything else anyway.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sanders
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection product
(go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan inputs the
job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other features
that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off the job,
this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in real-time because
I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything we assume
to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way to get
past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all of
their own programming and system development in-house during the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Don,

Regarding your Con's,

I think we are currently addressing some of these issues as we have made
cell leaders the official lead person over the other cell workers. In
our lean manufacturing approach, we track cell production rates on
production boards every 15 to 30 minutes. In order to keep the cells
meeting their target rates, cell leaders have to keep efficiencies up
within the cell. They do this by pushing employees that are not keep up
(in fact sometimes the whole team does) or by moving a slower employee
to a different position within the cell. Individual employee
accountability would be the item that would suffer, but hopefully the
supervision would handle that. In our situation right now all cell
employees currently clocking in and out on jobs, but individual
efficiencies are really dependant on the total cell and how they
function as a unit.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Kollman [SMTP:donk@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:29 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

We have been struggling with this issue too,
We thought if we treat the workcenter as if it were the
employees add an
average labor amount based on average amount of employees
working on that
machine, and assign a line leader to log the WorkCenter in and
out, we make
one person accountable for qty's and one at the data systems to
log in and
out of jobs.

Pro's
1. Accurate time of Workcenter running on each job (Burden
Correct)
2. Quantities more accurate (1) person accountable at workcenter
3. No wasting time at Data terminals
4. Better analysis of workcenter load

Con's
1. Accountability of each employee
2. Each Employee Efficiencies not trackable
3. Supervisors more responsible keeping track of employees

Please let me know what you think
Thank You

Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

It all comes down to: Is the time it takes to gather the
information...
worth the information (and the reliability of the information)
that you get
when you're done. In our case, we spend lots of time doing data
collection,
and many times we find that the data is innaccurate - not due to
Vantage so
much as getting people to CARE about clocking so that they get
the right
job, the right quantities, etc. That's the main reason we are
considering
the Cell approach. We collect THOUSANDS of lines of labor data,
only to find
we can't depend on it for efficiencies or anything else anyway.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sanders
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data
Collection product
(go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan
inputs the
job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other
features
that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off
the job,
this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities
were completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in
real-time because
I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the
production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges
anything we assume
to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a
way to get
past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of
today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility
and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was
spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about
all of
their own programming and system development in-house during
the 60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps
created that most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It
wasn't until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent
just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say
this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are
going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps.
An example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You
would do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the
previous job off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log
into a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut
it off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is
running multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it
is currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an
option in the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous
job. If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment,
when an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest
Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their
employee number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee
new he or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the
employee left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and
the system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer
in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no
management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary
to track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this
group to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the
employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has
to wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence.
We hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot
department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added
into Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but
they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original
version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom
modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You
must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jim
If you are lucky enough to get a response from Caesar Developments can you
ask them to reply to my many faxes & e-mails
Regards

Dennis O'Hara
Finance Controller
The Signcraft Group

Tel 61 3 9687 8455
Fax 61 3 9687 7235
e-mail d.ohara@... <mailto:d.ohara@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2001 23:21 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim,
You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection
product (go
to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan inputs
the job,
assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other
features that
make it well worth the money.

As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off the
job, this
is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were
completed
or scrapped. This is information that I like having in real-time
because I
can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the
production
process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything we
assume to
be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way to
get past.

$0.02
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Hi Patrick,

It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of
today's
systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was
spoiled in
that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about all
of
their own programming and system development in-house during the
60's
and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created that
most
other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It wasn't
until
the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent just
tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say this:

Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are going to
perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps. An
example
would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You would
do
this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous job
off.
In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log into
a
second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut it
off. In
those situations, and we have them, when an operator is running
multiple
machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is
currently
cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an option in
the
transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous job.
If
not, then labor would cease on that job.

This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment, when
an
employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest Wavetek
ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee
number.
The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new he
or she
was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the employee
left the
facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and the
system
now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
attendance.

I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no
management
wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to
track
their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this group
to
set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the employee
barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to
wand
three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence. We
hope to
prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot
department go
live on Monday.

My apologies for the wordiness.

Jim McKechnie
General Manager
Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
jim@...
jrmckechnie@...
(619) 527-6100

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into
Vantage
for
all?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Thanks Lonnie,

We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but they
grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original
version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

The guys at Caesar Development are programmers. Try contacting Kevin Kadamus
at ISI kevink@.... They are consultants that resell Caesar Dev
programs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis O'Hara [mailto:d.ohara@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:38 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim
If you are lucky enough to get a response from Caesar Developments can you
ask them to reply to my many faxes & e-mails
Regards

Dennis O'Hara
Finance Controller
The Signcraft Group

Tel 61 3 9687 8455
Fax 61 3 9687 7235
e-mail d.ohara@... <mailto:d.ohara@...>

version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Misha1 also sells Caesar Dev. Products, they are a good group to work with.

You can reach Calvin Dekker or Dana Rick at Misha1.net
calvin@...
(630) 893-1305

Warren R. Eddy
Information Services Manager
National Tube Form, LLC
Phone: (219) 478-2363 ext 217
Fax: (219) 478-1043
Warren.Eddy@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Laroche, Richard [mailto:rlaroche@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:43 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

The guys at Caesar Development are programmers. Try contacting Kevin Kadamus
at ISI kevink@.... They are consultants that resell Caesar Dev
programs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis O'Hara [mailto:d.ohara@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:38 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

Jim
If you are lucky enough to get a response from Caesar Developments can you
ask them to reply to my many faxes & e-mails
Regards

Dennis O'Hara
Finance Controller
The Signcraft Group

Tel 61 3 9687 8455
Fax 61 3 9687 7235
e-mail d.ohara@... <mailto:d.ohara@...>

version. I
guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.

Paul

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

ditto to that!

Dennis O'Hara wrote:

> Jim
> If you are lucky enough to get a response from Caesar Developments can
> you
> ask them to reply to my many faxes & e-mails
> Regards
>
> Dennis O'Hara
> Finance Controller
> The Signcraft Group
>
> Tel 61 3 9687 8455
> Fax 61 3 9687 7235
> e-mail d.ohara@... <mailto:d.ohara@...>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2001 23:21 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
> Jim,
> You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection
>
> product (go
> to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan
> inputs
> the job,
> assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other
> features that
> make it well worth the money.
>
> As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off
> the
> job, this
> is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were
>
> completed
> or scrapped. This is information that I like having in
> real-time
> because I
> can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the
> production
> process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything
> we
> assume to
> be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way
> to
> get past.
>
> $0.02
> ======================
> Steve Sanders
> Delta Centrifugal Corp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of
> today's
> systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
> elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was
> spoiled in
> that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about
> all
> of
> their own programming and system development in-house during
> the
> 60's
> and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created
> that
> most
> other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It
> wasn't
> until
> the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent
> just
> tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say
> this:
>
> Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are
> going to
> perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps.
> An
> example
> would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You
> would
> do
> this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous
> job
> off.
> In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log
> into
> a
> second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut
> it
> off. In
> those situations, and we have them, when an operator is
> running
> multiple
> machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is
>
> currently
> cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an
> option in
> the
> transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous
> job.
> If
> not, then labor would cease on that job.
>
> This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment,
> when
> an
> employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest
> Wavetek
> ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee
> number.
> The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new
> he
> or she
> was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the
> employee
> left the
> facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and
> the
> system
> now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
>
> attendance.
>
> I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no
> management
> wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to
>
> track
> their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this
> group
> to
> set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the
> employee
> barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to
>
> wand
> three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence.
> We
> hope to
> prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot
> department go
> live on Monday.
>
> My apologies for the wordiness.
>
> Jim McKechnie
> General Manager
> Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
> jim@...
> jrmckechnie@...
> (619) 527-6100
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
> What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into
>
> Vantage
> for
> all?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
>
> Thanks Lonnie,
>
> We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but
> they
> grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original
> version. I
> guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.
>
> Paul
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You
> must
> have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
> have
> already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
> already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Contact www.intelligentsi.com <http://www.intelligentsi.com/> . Perhaps
they can help.

Terry L. Williams I.S. Manager Chipsco, Inc. 9936 Liberty St. Ext.
Meadville, PA 16335 p.8143336331 x236 f.8143372548 tlw@...
<mailto:tlw@...> www.chipsco.com <http://www.chipsco.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: Britt Moelling [mailto:bmoelling@...]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Data collection

ditto to that!

Dennis O'Hara wrote:

> Jim
> If you are lucky enough to get a response from Caesar Developments can
> you
> ask them to reply to my many faxes & e-mails
> Regards
>
> Dennis O'Hara
> Finance Controller
> The Signcraft Group
>
> Tel 61 3 9687 8455
> Fax 61 3 9687 7235
> e-mail d.ohara@... <mailto:d.ohara@...>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sanders [SMTP:ssanders@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2001 23:21 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
> Jim,
> You really should check out Caesar Development's Data Collection
>
> product (go
> to the Links section of our group page on Yahoo). One scan
> inputs
> the job,
> assembly and sequence values. Plus there are a bunch of other
> features that
> make it well worth the money.
>
> As to your comment about eliminating the task of punching off
> the
> job, this
> is where Vantage collects information about what quantities were
>
> completed
> or scrapped. This is information that I like having in
> real-time
> because I
> can give customers a better estimate of where we are in the
> production
> process. I like the critical thinking that challenges anything
> we
> assume to
> be a requirement, but this is one that I can't really see a way
> to
> get past.
>
> $0.02
> ======================
> Steve Sanders
> Delta Centrifugal Corp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim McKechnie [mailto:jrmckechnie@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:17 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> It's funny when I look at the labor transactions in many of
> today's
> systems, Epicor remaining status quo, in that flexibility and
> elimination of non-value added efforts are not there. I was
> spoiled in
> that I worked for a large aerospace firm that did just about
> all
> of
> their own programming and system development in-house during
> the
> 60's
> and 70's. We had all of the rigid, traditional steps created
> that
> most
> other companies had developed to "contain" the inmates. It
> wasn't
> until
> the 80's that we began to realize how much time people spent
> just
> tracking their time. After this long diatribe, let me say
> this:
>
> Labor transactions are non-value added, however if we are
> going to
> perform them then why don't we eliminate some of the steps.
> An
> example
> would be to eliminate the task of punching off the job. You
> would
> do
> this by using the log in of the next job to shut the previous
> job
> off.
> In most instances, it is unlikely that an employee would log
> into
> a
> second job and still be working on the previous job, so shut
> it
> off. In
> those situations, and we have them, when an operator is
> running
> multiple
> machines and he/she had already begun the first job (and it is
>
> currently
> cutting, soldering or machining) then there should be an
> option in
> the
> transaction to ask if you are still working on the previous
> job.
> If
> not, then labor would cease on that job.
>
> This same thing goes for attendance. In my old environment,
> when
> an
> employee came to work, all they did was go to the nearest
> Wavetek
> ten-key terminal and switch it "on" and key in their employee
> number.
> The computer response back would be "OK!" and the employee new
> he
> or she
> was now clocked in for attendance. Likewise, when the
> employee
> left the
> facility, he or she would perform the same transaction, and
> the
> system
> now showed that person as "left" the facility and no longer in
>
> attendance.
>
> I think the labor transactions must be simplified because no
> management
> wants their employees spending any more time than necessary to
>
> track
> their time. We have taken some of the suggestions from this
> group
> to
> set up our wedge barcode readers. We are providing the
> employee
> barcodes at the computer terminal and the employee only has to
>
> wand
> three barcodes: employee, job number and operation sequence.
> We
> hope to
> prove it out tomorrow and Friday so we can have our pilot
> department go
> live on Monday.
>
> My apologies for the wordiness.
>
> Jim McKechnie
> General Manager
> Signtech Electrical Advertising, Inc.
> jim@...
> jrmckechnie@...
> (619) 527-6100
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM
> To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
> What are some of your mods? Any you think should be added into
>
> Vantage
> for
> all?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Lipham [mailto:paull@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:27 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Data collection
>
>
> Thanks Lonnie,
>
> We have the source for Vantage 4... It took some doing, but
> they
> grandfathered us in since we purchased it with the original
> version. I
> guess we will be forced to do yet another custom modification.
>
> Paul
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> < http://groups.yahoocom/group/vantage/files/> Note: You
> must
> have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must
> have
> already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
> already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]