DC Lag Time

May I be permitted to toss in my $0.02 (Cdn)?

It would seem to me that a simple, and relatively inexpensive solution
might be something like this:

Install the Progress Character Client on a Unix(linux?) box. Connect the
Linux to the Vantage host. With custom programming, create a Character
program for entering clock in/out information, and install that on the
linux host. From each time collection station, use a freeware telnet
client (PuTTY works very well) and telnet into the Linux host, run your
clock in/out program in the telnet session, and Bob's your uncle. Every
one is using the same clock - the station is lightly loaded, and all
times are consistent.

Just a thought.


jyargeau2001 wrote:
>
> We have only plant or shop floor icons for DC and we experience this
> lag time. This is a major problem. By the way what do you mean by
> the "Epicor Book"? Do you mean ERA for the answer base or are you
> referring to something else?
>
> --- In vantage@y..., Bob Walton <rwalton@e...> wrote:
> > Nelson,
> > I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't
> remember all of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the
> Plant Floor icon, the client times are
> > synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full
> Vantage DC that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book:
> Support Solutions Page: 1727MPS for a
> > brief write-up.
> > Bob Walton
> >
> > Nelson Dufour wrote:
> >
> > > Hi again,
> > > Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power
> in numbers?
> > > Is there an incident number available to request a fix
> immediately? How many
> > > use DC and do others have the same concerns?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> > > Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> > > I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> > > 1691 Walker Rd.
> > > Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> > > e-mail: ndufour@c...
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
/* ================================================================*/

Specialists in Progress Databases and Software since 1986

William E. Colls william@...
PROComputer Systems Tel 613 591 0079
67 Willow Glen Dr. Fax 613 591 3924
Kanata Ontario Canada www.procomsys.com
K2M 1T1
Hi again,
Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
use DC and do others have the same concerns?

Thanks,
Colonial Tool Group Inc.
Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
1691 Walker Rd.
Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
e-mail: ndufour@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I called this in on Incident # 799874MPS.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Dufour [mailto:ndufour@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:47 PM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] DC Lag Time


Hi again,
Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
use DC and do others have the same concerns?

Thanks,
Colonial Tool Group Inc.
Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
1691 Walker Rd.
Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
e-mail: ndufour@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nelson,
I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't remember all of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the Plant Floor icon, the client times are
synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full Vantage DC that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book: Support Solutions Page: 1727MPS for a
brief write-up.
Bob Walton

Nelson Dufour wrote:

> Hi again,
> Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
> Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
> use DC and do others have the same concerns?
>
> Thanks,
> Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> 1691 Walker Rd.
> Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> e-mail: ndufour@...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I might add...
This is just another great example of something we hadn't noticed yet and
Epicor didn't share. I really wish they would post these things like
Progress does.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Dufour [mailto:ndufour@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:47 AM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] DC Lag Time


Hi again,
Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
use DC and do others have the same concerns?

Thanks,
Colonial Tool Group Inc.
Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
1691 Walker Rd.
Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
e-mail: ndufour@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
If that's true it sounds like a Epicor programming issue and not purely a
progress issue.

Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Walton [mailto:rwalton@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:33 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] DC Lag Time


Nelson,
I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't remember all
of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the Plant Floor icon,
the client times are
synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full Vantage DC
that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book: Support Solutions
Page: 1727MPS for a
brief write-up.
Bob Walton

Nelson Dufour wrote:

> Hi again,
> Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in
numbers?
> Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How
many
> use DC and do others have the same concerns?
>
> Thanks,
> Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> 1691 Walker Rd.
> Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> e-mail: ndufour@...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Greetings,
�
This is surprising that this issue should come up today.� We have a person
who is on the cusp of termination and punched in today 2 minutes late.� I
check the time and Vantage server was 20 seconds faster than the time and
temp service, and our buzzer was 20 seconds slower.� We use DC in the shop.
�
So this is a big issue with us as well.
�
Thanks,
Dan

Daniel C. Spoerl
Estimator/MIS
Toledo Metal Spinning Co.
Phone: (419) 535-5931 ext. 203
Fax:��� (419) 535-0565�
Personal E-fax: (707) 897-1708�
Email:��� HYPERLINK
"mailto:dans@..."dans@...
WebSite: HYPERLINK
"http://www.toledometalspinning.com"http://www.toledometalspinning.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products_configurator.htm" \n



�

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Dufour [mailto:ndufour@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:47 PM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] DC Lag Time


Hi again,
Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
use DC and do others have the same concerns?

Thanks,
Colonial Tool Group Inc.
Nelson L. Dufour�������������� Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
I.S. Services Mgr.��������������� Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
1691 Walker Rd.
Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
e-mail: ndufour@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:� You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/."http://groups.yahoo.com/group
/vantage/files/.�
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p/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: HYPERLINK
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have only plant or shop floor icons for DC and we experience this
lag time. This is a major problem. By the way what do you mean by
the "Epicor Book"? Do you mean ERA for the answer base or are you
referring to something else?

--- In vantage@y..., Bob Walton <rwalton@e...> wrote:
> Nelson,
> I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't
remember all of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the
Plant Floor icon, the client times are
> synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full
Vantage DC that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book:
Support Solutions Page: 1727MPS for a
> brief write-up.
> Bob Walton
>
> Nelson Dufour wrote:
>
> > Hi again,
> > Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power
in numbers?
> > Is there an incident number available to request a fix
immediately? How many
> > use DC and do others have the same concerns?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> > Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> > I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> > 1691 Walker Rd.
> > Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> > e-mail: ndufour@c...
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What you say is interesting. At least here, our Plant Floor users are synchronized with the server, which is synchronized with our external, "official" time source. The
problem you're having has gone away here. I am now working on interfacing the obnoxious buzzer, which should get everything synchronized. Version 5.10.124, if that makes a
difference. Just search for "1727MPS" in the Answerbook to get that doc.

Bob walton

jyargeau2001 wrote:

> We have only plant or shop floor icons for DC and we experience this
> lag time. This is a major problem. By the way what do you mean by
> the "Epicor Book"? Do you mean ERA for the answer base or are you
> referring to something else?
>
> --- In vantage@y..., Bob Walton <rwalton@e...> wrote:
> > Nelson,
> > I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't
> remember all of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the
> Plant Floor icon, the client times are
> > synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full
> Vantage DC that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book:
> Support Solutions Page: 1727MPS for a
> > brief write-up.
> > Bob Walton
> >
> > Nelson Dufour wrote:
> >
> > > Hi again,
> > > Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power
> in numbers?
> > > Is there an incident number available to request a fix
> immediately? How many
> > > use DC and do others have the same concerns?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> > > Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> > > I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> > > 1691 Walker Rd.
> > > Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> > > e-mail: ndufour@c...
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?

These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM looks like
they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details, etc.
automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45 counts as
4:45.

If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and they wait
until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the limit
before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.

Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them at the
time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that up.

When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this problem is more
with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few minutes
early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.

Just my .02.

Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
email: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt: mailto:greg@... Web: www.patriot-machine.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Walton [mailto:rwalton@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 3:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time

What you say is interesting. At least here, our Plant Floor users are
synchronized with the server, which is synchronized with our external,
"official" time source. The
problem you're having has gone away here. I am now working on interfacing
the obnoxious buzzer, which should get everything synchronized. Version
5.10.124, if that makes a
difference. Just search for "1727MPS" in the Answerbook to get that doc.

Bob walton

jyargeau2001 wrote:

> We have only plant or shop floor icons for DC and we experience this
> lag time. This is a major problem. By the way what do you mean by
> the "Epicor Book"? Do you mean ERA for the answer base or are you
> referring to something else?
>
> --- In vantage@y..., Bob Walton <rwalton@e...> wrote:
> > Nelson,
> > I tested this lag time issue several weeks ago. I can't
> remember all of the specifics, but I do recall that if users use the
> Plant Floor icon, the client times are
> > synchronized with the server. It's when our users used the full
> Vantage DC that there was a 30 - 40 sec. lag time. See Epicor Book:
> Support Solutions Page: 1727MPS for a
> > brief write-up.
> > Bob Walton
> >
> > Nelson Dufour wrote:
> >
> > > Hi again,
> > > Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power
> in numbers?
> > > Is there an incident number available to request a fix
> immediately? How many
> > > use DC and do others have the same concerns?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Colonial Tool Group Inc.
> > > Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
> > > I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
> > > 1691 Walker Rd.
> > > Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
> > > e-mail: ndufour@c...
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
We use SFDC (TT5s and Vantage Point) and haven't had the issue arise. I
reboot the DC Gateway regularly and have a net time set to sync with the
Vantage server which is set by the Internet.

Regards Chris
PWSL



-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Dufour [mailto:ndufour@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:47 PM
To: Vantage (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] DC Lag Time


Hi again,
Can we get together on this issue and find out if there is power in numbers?
Is there an incident number available to request a fix immediately? How many
use DC and do others have the same concerns?

Thanks,
Colonial Tool Group Inc.
Nelson L. Dufour Ph. 519-253-2461, x226
I.S. Services Mgr. Ph. 313-965-8680, x226
1691 Walker Rd.
Windsor, Ont. N8W 3P1
e-mail: ndufour@...
At the end of each shift, we have three reports run automatically, WHO'S
CLOCKED IN NOW (also indicates who is "off Shift"), Who Clock in Late, and
Who's Absent. Supervisors are responsible for attending to the time and
making it right. We allow people to clock in up to 45 minutes early, (This
is unpaid, except for defined situations). The "timeclock" uses a neoware
box with a barcode swipe, the server is syncronized with an atomic clock
every twelve hours. We pay our operators a ten minute "incentive" IE: if
you're here 10 minutes early you get paid for it, if you're here 9 minutes
early you dont get it. We also have and extended point process on
attendence. All in all, at the end of the day, here 30 seconds becomes
irrelevent.

Shirley Graver
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron, OH




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered solutions,
including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further explanation to
address some issues about this that have not been covered.
You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We have one
here.
But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters (tolerance
specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow early clock
ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a real
problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue for them
is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find employees
from our second building already passing the end of our driveway because
their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by the fact
that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
example...
Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b changes to
3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom made for
quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update because
there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we have an
example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31 and I
have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality) that they
were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an extra 3
minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so they can
leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another hour and a
half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly anyway, but it
makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to us.
All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the hook for
this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise people.
All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of seconds,
but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and really feel
that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a very
specific issue that could use some attention.
I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne and hope
that this is given some attention.

Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work around", and I
will be addressing this with management to bring other's suggestions to see
if anything is acceptable for our situation.

Aaron Hoyt
Information Systems Manager
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:aaron.hoyt@...>
(Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
http://housecall.antivirus.com/)


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?

These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM looks like
they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details, etc.
automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45 counts as
4:45.

If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and they wait
until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the limit
before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.

Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them at the
time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that up.

When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this problem is more
with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few minutes
early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.

Just my .02.

Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
email: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt: mailto:greg@... Web: www.patriot-machine.com
On the subject of time policy, we have swung to another side of the fence... We recently junked out Time Clocks after we estimated that Employees were costing the company in excess of $200,000 per year just by adding up "the time it takes to clock in and out of jobs, and on and off at the beginning and end of the day." We switched over to a cell (lean manufacturing) concept that has the supervisor keeping track of time on paper (just total hrs per day), while the employee focuses on work. Each 'cell' works on one assembly for each week, so there is little job changeover time required. One clerk can enter the whole company's time into Vantage in under an hour per day.

We found that over the years we used Data Collection we were amassing HUGE amounts of Labor Detail which we didn't trust anyway because of inaccurate time punching. The supervisors were spending just as much (or more) time adjusting the time punches in Vantage as they are now writing things down on paper. Plus, the simplicity of the cells has given us far more accurate efficiencies for our workflow, and the cells are motivated to keep up attendance and production.

I know this can't work in every situation, but it has been a transformation of sorts at Liberty -- thanks to the undying diligence of one of our managers who kept following this process through. It took some time for other managers to get on board and iron out the 'gaps' in functionality, but it is working very well.

Incidently, none of the above means an employee can waltz in 5 minutes late. There are still strict policies for attendance, but many of the Data Collection headaches and time-wasting has been eliminated.

Just trying to think out of the box, so to speak.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Hoyt
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered solutions,
including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further explanation to
address some issues about this that have not been covered.
You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We have one
here.
But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters (tolerance
specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow early clock
ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a real
problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue for them
is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find employees
from our second building already passing the end of our driveway because
their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by the fact
that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
example...
Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b changes to
3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom made for
quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update because
there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we have an
example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31 and I
have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality) that they
were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an extra 3
minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so they can
leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another hour and a
half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly anyway, but it
makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to us.
All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the hook for
this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise people.
All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of seconds,
but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and really feel
that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a very
specific issue that could use some attention.
I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne and hope
that this is given some attention.

Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work around", and I
will be addressing this with management to bring other's suggestions to see
if anything is acceptable for our situation.

Aaron Hoyt
Information Systems Manager
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:aaron.hoyt@...>
(Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
http://housecall.antivirus.com/)


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?

These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM looks like
they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details, etc.
automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45 counts as
4:45.

If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and they wait
until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the limit
before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.

Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them at the
time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that up.

When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this problem is more
with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few minutes
early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.

Just my .02.

Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
email: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt: mailto:greg@... Web: www.patriot-machine.com



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Troy,

You have an extremely interesting story to tell for us Production/Computer
types.
Can you elaborate on some of the 'gaps' that had to be ironed out?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:46 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


On the subject of time policy, we have swung to another side of the fence...
We recently junked out Time Clocks after we estimated that Employees were
costing the company in excess of $200,000 per year just by adding up "the
time it takes to clock in and out of jobs, and on and off at the beginning
and end of the day." We switched over to a cell (lean manufacturing)
concept that has the supervisor keeping track of time on paper (just total
hrs per day), while the employee focuses on work. Each 'cell' works on one
assembly for each week, so there is little job changeover time required.
One clerk can enter the whole company's time into Vantage in under an hour
per day.

We found that over the years we used Data Collection we were amassing HUGE
amounts of Labor Detail which we didn't trust anyway because of inaccurate
time punching. The supervisors were spending just as much (or more) time
adjusting the time punches in Vantage as they are now writing things down on
paper. Plus, the simplicity of the cells has given us far more accurate
efficiencies for our workflow, and the cells are motivated to keep up
attendance and production.

I know this can't work in every situation, but it has been a transformation
of sorts at Liberty -- thanks to the undying diligence of one of our
managers who kept following this process through. It took some time for
other managers to get on board and iron out the 'gaps' in functionality, but
it is working very well.

Incidently, none of the above means an employee can waltz in 5 minutes late.
There are still strict policies for attendance, but many of the Data
Collection headaches and time-wasting has been eliminated.

Just trying to think out of the box, so to speak.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Hoyt
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered solutions,
including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further explanation
to
address some issues about this that have not been covered.
You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We have
one
here.
But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters
(tolerance
specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow early
clock
ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a real
problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue for
them
is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find employees
from our second building already passing the end of our driveway because
their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by the fact
that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
example...
Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b changes to
3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom made
for
quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update because
there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we have an
example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31 and I
have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality) that
they
were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an extra 3
minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so they
can
leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another hour and
a
half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly anyway, but
it
makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to us.
All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the hook
for
this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise people.
All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of seconds,
but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and really feel
that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a very
specific issue that could use some attention.
I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne and
hope
that this is given some attention.

Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work around", and
I
will be addressing this with management to bring other's suggestions to
see
if anything is acceptable for our situation.

Aaron Hoyt
Information Systems Manager
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:aaron.hoyt@...>
(Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
http://housecall.antivirus.com/)


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?

These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM looks
like
they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details, etc.
automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45 counts
as
4:45.

If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and they wait
until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the limit
before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.

Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them at the
time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that up.

When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this problem is
more
with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few minutes
early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.

Just my .02.

Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
email: mailto:greg.krumrey@...
Alt: mailto:greg@... Web: www.patriot-machine.com



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
We have noticed this issue as well. We haven't had it boil over yet,
but there has been grumbling in the shop. I have noticed that when
you first open the Data Collections Screen, the current time is
grabbed from the server. If you open DC and it displays 6:59 it will
then take 60 seconds for the time to change to 7:00, no matter if the
real time on the server was 6:59:00 or 6:59:59, it will take 60
seconds before it displays 7:00. I am hourly and punch in/out in my
office. If I am in a hurry to leave I will repeatedly Enter/Exit the
DC screen, so that when the time changes on the server it will show
up when I open the screen. I have not shared this work around with
production personnel.

Bottom line, this should work better. All DC stations should change
at the same time.

Brian Stenglein
Clow Stamping Co.

--- In vantage@y..., "Aaron Hoyt" <aaron@d...> wrote:
> Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered
solutions,
> including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further
explanation to
> address some issues about this that have not been covered.
> You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We
have one
> here.
> But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters
(tolerance
> specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow
early clock
> ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a
real
> problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue
for them
> is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find
employees
> from our second building already passing the end of our driveway
because
> their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by
the fact
> that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
> example...
> Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b
changes to
> 3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom
made for
> quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update
because
> there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we
have an
> example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31
and I
> have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality)
that they
> were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an
extra 3
> minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so
they can
> leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
> Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another
hour and a
> half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly
anyway, but it
> makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
> Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
> employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
> If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to
us.
> All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the
hook for
> this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise
people.
> All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of
seconds,
> but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and
really feel
> that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a
very
> specific issue that could use some attention.
> I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne
and hope
> that this is given some attention.
>
> Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work
around", and I
> will be addressing this with management to bring other's
suggestions to see
> if anything is acceptable for our situation.
>
> Aaron Hoyt
> Information Systems Manager
> Design Standards Corp.
> PO Box 1620
> Charlestown, NH 03603
> Tel 603-826-7744
> <mailto:aaron.hoyt@d...>
> (Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
> http://housecall.antivirus.com/)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@p...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
> To: 'vantage@y...'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time
>
>
> Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?
>
> These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM
looks like
> they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details,
etc.
> automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45
counts as
> 4:45.
>
> If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and
they wait
> until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the
limit
> before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.
>
> Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them
at the
> time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that
up.
>
> When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this
problem is more
> with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few
minutes
> early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
> Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
> email: mailto:greg.krumrey@p...
> Alt: mailto:greg@k... Web: www.patriot-machine.com
One point I missed or it hasnt been stated. What hardware is being used.
Are these TT5 units, full workstations, or Terminal server boxes?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: B_Stinger [mailto:bstenglein@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


We have noticed this issue as well. We haven't had it boil over yet,
but there has been grumbling in the shop. I have noticed that when
you first open the Data Collections Screen, the current time is
grabbed from the server. If you open DC and it displays 6:59 it will
then take 60 seconds for the time to change to 7:00, no matter if the
real time on the server was 6:59:00 or 6:59:59, it will take 60
seconds before it displays 7:00. I am hourly and punch in/out in my
office. If I am in a hurry to leave I will repeatedly Enter/Exit the
DC screen, so that when the time changes on the server it will show
up when I open the screen. I have not shared this work around with
production personnel.

Bottom line, this should work better. All DC stations should change
at the same time.

Brian Stenglein
Clow Stamping Co.

--- In vantage@y..., "Aaron Hoyt" <aaron@d...> wrote:
> Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered
solutions,
> including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further
explanation to
> address some issues about this that have not been covered.
> You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We
have one
> here.
> But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters
(tolerance
> specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow
early clock
> ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a
real
> problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue
for them
> is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find
employees
> from our second building already passing the end of our driveway
because
> their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by
the fact
> that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
> example...
> Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b
changes to
> 3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom
made for
> quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update
because
> there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we
have an
> example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31
and I
> have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality)
that they
> were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an
extra 3
> minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so
they can
> leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
> Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another
hour and a
> half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly
anyway, but it
> makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
> Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
> employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
> If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to
us.
> All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the
hook for
> this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise
people.
> All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of
seconds,
> but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and
really feel
> that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a
very
> specific issue that could use some attention.
> I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne
and hope
> that this is given some attention.
>
> Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work
around", and I
> will be addressing this with management to bring other's
suggestions to see
> if anything is acceptable for our situation.
>
> Aaron Hoyt
> Information Systems Manager
> Design Standards Corp.
> PO Box 1620
> Charlestown, NH 03603
> Tel 603-826-7744
> <mailto:aaron.hoyt@d...>
> (Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
> http://housecall.antivirus.com/)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@p...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
> To: 'vantage@y...'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time
>
>
> Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?
>
> These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM
looks like
> they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details,
etc.
> automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45
counts as
> 4:45.
>
> If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and
they wait
> until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the
limit
> before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.
>
> Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them
at the
> time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that
up.
>
> When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this
problem is more
> with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few
minutes
> early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
> Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
> email: mailto:greg.krumrey@p...
> Alt: mailto:greg@k... Web: www.patriot-machine.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shirley,

Ours are full workstations running DC. No TT5 or TS here, though I have
considered it.

Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:31 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


One point I missed or it hasnt been stated. What hardware is being used.
Are these TT5 units, full workstations, or Terminal server boxes?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: B_Stinger [mailto:bstenglein@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


We have noticed this issue as well. We haven't had it boil over yet,
but there has been grumbling in the shop. I have noticed that when
you first open the Data Collections Screen, the current time is
grabbed from the server. If you open DC and it displays 6:59 it will
then take 60 seconds for the time to change to 7:00, no matter if the
real time on the server was 6:59:00 or 6:59:59, it will take 60
seconds before it displays 7:00. I am hourly and punch in/out in my
office. If I am in a hurry to leave I will repeatedly Enter/Exit the
DC screen, so that when the time changes on the server it will show
up when I open the screen. I have not shared this work around with
production personnel.

Bottom line, this should work better. All DC stations should change
at the same time.

Brian Stenglein
Clow Stamping Co.

--- In vantage@y..., "Aaron Hoyt" <aaron@d...> wrote:
> Before I start, I first want to thank those who have offered
solutions,
> including the one below by Greg, but feel this needs further
explanation to
> address some issues about this that have not been covered.
> You are exactly right about the "overly rigid clocking policy". We
have one
> here.
> But, that being said, we deal with a shop full of hair splitters
(tolerance
> specs routinely in the range of .0001"). The policy is to allow
early clock
> ins and late clock out's, but the "hair splitters" seem to have a
real
> problem if the clock did not update soon enough. The bigger issue
for them
> is when they wait for the change and walk out the door to find
employees
> from our second building already passing the end of our driveway
because
> their clock updated first. For us, the problem is compounded by
the fact
> that this problem gets worse with activity on other computers. For
> example...
> Computer A refreshes 20 seconds after computer b. Computer b
changes to
> 3:30 and the line starts scanning their bar-coded ID badges (custom
made for
> quicker data collection). Computer A now misses it's next update
because
> there was so much activity on computer b, c, d, and e. Here we
have an
> example where the next update for the clock goes from 3:29 to 3:31
and I
> have a line of 25 employee's that are all upset (group mentality)
that they
> were held up an extra minute and almost 2 minutes in line and an
extra 3
> minutes waiting for the others to pass then end of the driveway so
they can
> leave. Now they all want to see the extra dime in their paychecks.
> Granted This all means nothing to me because I still have another
hour and a
> half before I can make my exit, and I am not based on hourly
anyway, but it
> makes for a bunch of repeatedly unhappy employees.
> Now I am not even touching on the cost of bathroom pranks by unhappy
> employees and poor work performance to "get back at" employer.
> If you start looking at all the extra costs, this is a big deal to
us.
> All that considered, I can't say that I can just let Epicor off the
hook for
> this because our policy is to strict and we have to hire precise
people.
> All in all, I agree, that we are way to uptight about a couple of
seconds,
> but unfortunately I don't see our management changing soon and
really feel
> that if Epicor is concerned with "product improvement" this is a
very
> specific issue that could use some attention.
> I have added myself to Incident # 799874MPS as suggested by Joanne
and hope
> that this is given some attention.
>
> Again, thanks for suggestions. We have our own little "work
around", and I
> will be addressing this with management to bring other's
suggestions to see
> if anything is acceptable for our situation.
>
> Aaron Hoyt
> Information Systems Manager
> Design Standards Corp.
> PO Box 1620
> Charlestown, NH 03603
> Tel 603-826-7744
> <mailto:aaron.hoyt@d...>
> (Practice Save Computing, get a free online virus scan at:
> http://housecall.antivirus.com/)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Krumrey [mailto:gkrumrey@p...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:07 AM
> To: 'vantage@y...'
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time
>
>
> Did anyone mention the allowance times for clock-in/clock-out?
>
> These can be set so a person clocking in between 6:50 and 7:00 AM
looks like
> they clocked in at exactly 7:00. It can also adjust labor details,
etc.
> automatically. Same for clocking out, but in reverse: 4:30 to 4:45
counts as
> 4:45.
>
> If someone is in doubt, they make sure they clock in by 6:58 and
they wait
> until 4:31 or 4:32 (on their watch) to make sure they cleared the
limit
> before clocking out. No close calls, less stress.
>
> Even if someone had 30 seconds to spare, a person in front of them
at the
> time clock, one extra red light or a slow elevator could use that
up.
>
> When Vantage should be exact and correct, I would think this
problem is more
> with employees splitting hairs when they could just clock in a few
minutes
> early and/or management with a overly rigid clocking policy.
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Greg Krumrey, Information Manager, Patriot Machine, Inc.
> Voice: 636-940-1776 x 130, fax: 636-940-8933
> email: mailto:greg.krumrey@p...
> Alt: mailto:greg@k... Web: www.patriot-machine.com


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I am not saying that this shouldn't/couldn't be fixed for regular PC data
collection units, however most of the problems discussed can be solved by
implementing a terminal server solution for your shop data collections
terminals. Using that method, all data collection location will run off of
the same time that is on the Terminal Server box.

Although it may cost $5000+ for this solution (new server and software,
etc.), it sounds that this would be paid back quite easily just from
improved employee morale.

Rick Lane
Intelligent Systems Integration, Inc.
600 Weber Drive
Wadsworth, OH 44281
PH: 330-335-5291
FX: 330-335-7275

"Helping Business Make Intelligent Use of Technology"
Has anyone noticed a difference in lagtime using Terminal server
workstations. I havent when I've tried to compare our "timeclock" to our
server. Within the next 6 months I'm hoping to expand into the factory with
10 terminal server workstations. As prelude, network cables get certified
and I configure and build another new server. I'd hate to spend dollars if
the software cant even keep accurate time.
Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Hoyt [mailto:aaron@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:39 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: DC Lag Time


Shirley,

Ours are full workstations running DC. No TT5 or TS here, though I have
considered it.

Aaron



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]