Epicor 8.x and SQL Server Standard and Windows 2000 Server Stan

Did you try using this "Progress Explorer" and did it correct your
speed issue?

We too are experiencing EXTREMELY slow service from our Vantage
server, and below are the following specs for our server:

Dual Core 2.8 GHz Xeon 800 MHz FSB PowerEdge 2850 / Dual processor
8 GB RAM
Windows 2003 Enterprise Server

Let me know if you've found anything that helped your slow SQL system.

Thanks,

acp2g99
We have the following software and hardware that was purchased
pretty much the day Vantage 8.0 was released to the general public.
We feel the performance could be better, and would like to know if
anyone is running similar hardware and software, and if so, how they
have it configured.

Software:
--------
Windows 2000 Server (Standard) SP4
SQL Server 2000 (Standard) SP4
Progress OpenEdge 10.0B SP5
Vantage 8.10x, 30 Users

Hardware:
--------
Dell PowerEdge 2800 Server
Dual 3.4Ghz Xeon CPU
4 36GB 15K RPM SCSI Disks, RAID 10
4 GB RAM
Dell Dimension E3100 Workstations
3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 CPU 630, 800 FSB
1 GB RAM
7200 RPM SATA Disk Drives
Gigabit Ethernet Network

For the most part, we are trying to figure out the least cost way to
improve performance on our server. We aren't sure whether memory or
disk IO will help, or possibly another server.

Memory Concept:
Right now, we are using all physical memory, and the RAID controller
is using 750MB (apparently Dell RAID controllers do this when they
see 4GB or more of memory). That leaves 3.25 GB for SQL Server and
OpenEdge and the OS. SQL Server Std will use 2GB if there is enough
memory (we have it limited to 1.25 GB right now), but that only
leaves 1.25GB for OpenEdge and the OS.

Some thoughts are to move to Windows 2003 64-bit, but would SQL
Server Std and OpenEdge gain enough from it? SQL Server Std will
still be limited to 2GB (so we'll gain 750 MB). I'm not sure if
OpenEdge and its app servers can move above the 4GB to free up
memory for the OS and such. Also, SQL Server seems to run speedy
now anyway.

Disk IO Concept:
We are running the logs, the DB the OS and the application on a
single RAID 10 drive, with the OS on its own logical drive.

We could purchase four more drives and build mirror drives for the
OS and mirrored drives for the SQL db logs, and leave the RAID 10
with the db. But is that going to really help? We don't seem to
have huge disk performance issues and, again, sql server is running
fine.

Two Server Concept:
A last thought is to purchase a low-end server with mirrored disks
and run the Vantage App and OpenEdge there, and leave SQL Server on
its own server (the existing one). The catch here is that Epicor
suggests against this above a certain number of users (I think it is
100). While we don't have that many now, this is enough to move us
away from the two server idea.

Of course all these options add cost. OS upgrades seem to be the
highest cost. Also, we know that upgrading to SQL Server Enterprise
is not a cost effective solution. Ideally, we want to keep our
upgrade investment under $5K (preferably nothing at all).

In summary, we are looking to see how people who have similar
hardware and software are configured. In addition, we would like
solicit ideas on how to best improve the performance using our
existing investment. Someone who is running a configuration similar
to ours would probably supply the best information since the are
proving it out in the real world.

Thanks!
What is SQL Server being used for.

I have SQL Server 2K running on my server along with progress but it is
only there to support Backup Exec and is using very little RAM.





Gerard M Wadman

Sr. Network Systems Engineer



Scandius BioMedical Inc.

11A Beaver Brook Road

Littleton, MA 01460





________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of jameswi2000
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:27 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor 8.x and SQL Server Standard and Windows 2000
Server Standard



We have the following software and hardware that was purchased
pretty much the day Vantage 8.0 was released to the general public.
We feel the performance could be better, and would like to know if
anyone is running similar hardware and software, and if so, how they
have it configured.

Software:
--------
Windows 2000 Server (Standard) SP4
SQL Server 2000 (Standard) SP4
Progress OpenEdge 10.0B SP5
Vantage 8.10x, 30 Users

Hardware:
--------
Dell PowerEdge 2800 Server
Dual 3.4Ghz Xeon CPU
4 36GB 15K RPM SCSI Disks, RAID 10
4 GB RAM
Dell Dimension E3100 Workstations
3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 CPU 630, 800 FSB
1 GB RAM
7200 RPM SATA Disk Drives
Gigabit Ethernet Network

For the most part, we are trying to figure out the least cost way to
improve performance on our server. We aren't sure whether memory or
disk IO will help, or possibly another server.

Memory Concept:
Right now, we are using all physical memory, and the RAID controller
is using 750MB (apparently Dell RAID controllers do this when they
see 4GB or more of memory). That leaves 3.25 GB for SQL Server and
OpenEdge and the OS. SQL Server Std will use 2GB if there is enough
memory (we have it limited to 1.25 GB right now), but that only
leaves 1.25GB for OpenEdge and the OS.

Some thoughts are to move to Windows 2003 64-bit, but would SQL
Server Std and OpenEdge gain enough from it? SQL Server Std will
still be limited to 2GB (so we'll gain 750 MB). I'm not sure if
OpenEdge and its app servers can move above the 4GB to free up
memory for the OS and such. Also, SQL Server seems to run speedy
now anyway.

Disk IO Concept:
We are running the logs, the DB the OS and the application on a
single RAID 10 drive, with the OS on its own logical drive.

We could purchase four more drives and build mirror drives for the
OS and mirrored drives for the SQL db logs, and leave the RAID 10
with the db. But is that going to really help? We don't seem to
have huge disk performance issues and, again, sql server is running
fine.

Two Server Concept:
A last thought is to purchase a low-end server with mirrored disks
and run the Vantage App and OpenEdge there, and leave SQL Server on
its own server (the existing one). The catch here is that Epicor
suggests against this above a certain number of users (I think it is
100). While we don't have that many now, this is enough to move us
away from the two server idea.

Of course all these options add cost. OS upgrades seem to be the
highest cost. Also, we know that upgrading to SQL Server Enterprise
is not a cost effective solution. Ideally, we want to keep our
upgrade investment under $5K (preferably nothing at all).

In summary, we are looking to see how people who have similar
hardware and software are configured. In addition, we would like
solicit ideas on how to best improve the performance using our
existing investment. Someone who is running a configuration similar
to ours would probably supply the best information since the are
proving it out in the real world.

Thanks!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the reply.

SQL Server is being used to house all the Vantage data, so there is a
great deal of activity. Progress is only being used as a schema
holder. That is, there is no data stored in Progress. By design,
this is how Vantage 8.0 works with SQL Server. In the case of using
SQL Server for Backup Exec, I wouldn't be surprised it is using
little RAM as you are experiencing, since there is very little data
being written to the database and very few clients.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Gerard Wadman" <gwadman@...> wrote:
>
> What is SQL Server being used for.
>
> I have SQL Server 2K running on my server along with progress but
it is
> only there to support Backup Exec and is using very little RAM.
>
>
>
>
>
> Gerard M Wadman
>
> Sr. Network Systems Engineer
>
>
>
> Scandius BioMedical Inc.
>
> 11A Beaver Brook Road
>
> Littleton, MA 01460
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of jameswi2000
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:27 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Epicor 8.x and SQL Server Standard and Windows
2000
> Server Standard
>
>
>
> We have the following software and hardware that was purchased
> pretty much the day Vantage 8.0 was released to the general public.
> We feel the performance could be better, and would like to know if
> anyone is running similar hardware and software, and if so, how
they
> have it configured.
>
> Software:
> --------
> Windows 2000 Server (Standard) SP4
> SQL Server 2000 (Standard) SP4
> Progress OpenEdge 10.0B SP5
> Vantage 8.10x, 30 Users
>
> Hardware:
> --------
> Dell PowerEdge 2800 Server
> Dual 3.4Ghz Xeon CPU
> 4 36GB 15K RPM SCSI Disks, RAID 10
> 4 GB RAM
> Dell Dimension E3100 Workstations
> 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 CPU 630, 800 FSB
> 1 GB RAM
> 7200 RPM SATA Disk Drives
> Gigabit Ethernet Network
>
> For the most part, we are trying to figure out the least cost way
to
> improve performance on our server. We aren't sure whether memory or
> disk IO will help, or possibly another server.
>
> Memory Concept:
> Right now, we are using all physical memory, and the RAID
controller
> is using 750MB (apparently Dell RAID controllers do this when they
> see 4GB or more of memory). That leaves 3.25 GB for SQL Server and
> OpenEdge and the OS. SQL Server Std will use 2GB if there is enough
> memory (we have it limited to 1.25 GB right now), but that only
> leaves 1.25GB for OpenEdge and the OS.
>
> Some thoughts are to move to Windows 2003 64-bit, but would SQL
> Server Std and OpenEdge gain enough from it? SQL Server Std will
> still be limited to 2GB (so we'll gain 750 MB). I'm not sure if
> OpenEdge and its app servers can move above the 4GB to free up
> memory for the OS and such. Also, SQL Server seems to run speedy
> now anyway.
>
> Disk IO Concept:
> We are running the logs, the DB the OS and the application on a
> single RAID 10 drive, with the OS on its own logical drive.
>
> We could purchase four more drives and build mirror drives for the
> OS and mirrored drives for the SQL db logs, and leave the RAID 10
> with the db. But is that going to really help? We don't seem to
> have huge disk performance issues and, again, sql server is running
> fine.
>
> Two Server Concept:
> A last thought is to purchase a low-end server with mirrored disks
> and run the Vantage App and OpenEdge there, and leave SQL Server on
> its own server (the existing one). The catch here is that Epicor
> suggests against this above a certain number of users (I think it
is
> 100). While we don't have that many now, this is enough to move us
> away from the two server idea.
>
> Of course all these options add cost. OS upgrades seem to be the
> highest cost. Also, we know that upgrading to SQL Server Enterprise
> is not a cost effective solution. Ideally, we want to keep our
> upgrade investment under $5K (preferably nothing at all).
>
> In summary, we are looking to see how people who have similar
> hardware and software are configured. In addition, we would like
> solicit ideas on how to best improve the performance using our
> existing investment. Someone who is running a configuration similar
> to ours would probably supply the best information since the are
> proving it out in the real world.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
The short answer is unless your versions of Vantage/Progress and SQL Server
are designed to utilize the 64bit processors you won't get any improvement
if you move to 64bit Server. They'll just start in 32bit mode on a 64bit
OS.



We're pretty close to your specs. The hardware specs SHOULD be able to
keep up with the amount of uses we have. Our old ERP system (Epicor
Platinum for Windows ) was running on a old Compaq server with only 1 CPU
and 1Gig RAM and it ran faster than Vantage 8 does. We even doubled the
recommended specs as given to use by Epicor last year when we purchased the
hardware.



We have Vantage 8.0 (810c) SQL Server version and 35 users running on a Dell
PowerEdge 2850 server with Dual Xeon processors and 4GB RAM. Our OS is
Windows Server 2003 Standard and SQL Server 2000 Standard. Our performance
is also VERY SLOOOOOOOOWWWWWW, in fact it takes 1.5 hours to run a Job
Traveler report with only 40 jobs on it.



When user(s) report an issue with Vantage, I check the Vantage System
Monitor to see what Active Tasks are running and get the PID(s) of the
active tasks. Then I check the PID(s) in Progress Explorer* (a more
advanced version of Task Manager) to see how much memory/CPU they are using.
Usually it's one of these Progress "_proapsv.exe' processes taking up about
30% (or more) of the total CPU power with SQLServer.exe taking another
20-30%. When you add in the other users, the CPUs are at 99%.



I've noticed that the Job Traveler, Mass Issue, Job Creation, Inventory WIP
Reconciliation, and others all eat up most of the CPU when running leaving
the remaining users to fight over the remaining CPU. Heaven forbid users
try to run more than one of these at a time.



* Progress Explorer is a free utility from SysInternals, who got purchased
by MSoft last year or so.





Thanks,

Randy

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jameswi2000
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor 8.x and SQL Server Standard and Windows 2000
Server Standard



We have the following software and hardware that was purchased
pretty much the day Vantage 8.0 was released to the general public.
We feel the performance could be better, and would like to know if
anyone is running similar hardware and software, and if so, how they
have it configured.

Software:
--------
Windows 2000 Server (Standard) SP4
SQL Server 2000 (Standard) SP4
Progress OpenEdge 10.0B SP5
Vantage 8.10x, 30 Users

Hardware:
--------
Dell PowerEdge 2800 Server
Dual 3.4Ghz Xeon CPU
4 36GB 15K RPM SCSI Disks, RAID 10
4 GB RAM
Dell Dimension E3100 Workstations
3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 CPU 630, 800 FSB
1 GB RAM
7200 RPM SATA Disk Drives
Gigabit Ethernet Network

For the most part, we are trying to figure out the least cost way to
improve performance on our server. We aren't sure whether memory or
disk IO will help, or possibly another server.

Memory Concept:
Right now, we are using all physical memory, and the RAID controller
is using 750MB (apparently Dell RAID controllers do this when they
see 4GB or more of memory). That leaves 3.25 GB for SQL Server and
OpenEdge and the OS. SQL Server Std will use 2GB if there is enough
memory (we have it limited to 1.25 GB right now), but that only
leaves 1.25GB for OpenEdge and the OS.

Some thoughts are to move to Windows 2003 64-bit, but would SQL
Server Std and OpenEdge gain enough from it? SQL Server Std will
still be limited to 2GB (so we'll gain 750 MB). I'm not sure if
OpenEdge and its app servers can move above the 4GB to free up
memory for the OS and such. Also, SQL Server seems to run speedy
now anyway.

Disk IO Concept:
We are running the logs, the DB the OS and the application on a
single RAID 10 drive, with the OS on its own logical drive.

We could purchase four more drives and build mirror drives for the
OS and mirrored drives for the SQL db logs, and leave the RAID 10
with the db. But is that going to really help? We don't seem to
have huge disk performance issues and, again, sql server is running
fine.

Two Server Concept:
A last thought is to purchase a low-end server with mirrored disks
and run the Vantage App and OpenEdge there, and leave SQL Server on
its own server (the existing one). The catch here is that Epicor
suggests against this above a certain number of users (I think it is
100). While we don't have that many now, this is enough to move us
away from the two server idea.

Of course all these options add cost. OS upgrades seem to be the
highest cost. Also, we know that upgrading to SQL Server Enterprise
is not a cost effective solution. Ideally, we want to keep our
upgrade investment under $5K (preferably nothing at all).

In summary, we are looking to see how people who have similar
hardware and software are configured. In addition, we would like
solicit ideas on how to best improve the performance using our
existing investment. Someone who is running a configuration similar
to ours would probably supply the best information since the are
proving it out in the real world.

Thanks!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> * Progress Explorer is a free utility from SysInternals, who got purchased
> by MSoft last year or so.

Randy is correct. Process Explorer is a *very* cool replacement for your task
manager. Want to know who started that SVCHOST program? Process Explorer will
tell you. For more info, see:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/ProcessExplorer.mspx

In addition to Process Explorer, TCPVIEW is a graphical version of NETSTAT. It
will show you all of the socket activity on your machine. All of the
SysInternals stuff is top notch. You can get TCPVIEW at:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Networking/TcpView.mspx

Mark W.
Thanks for the reply, I have heard good things about sysinternals and
will need to pick up a copy.

Question, after you identify a PID taking 30% of your resources, what
do you do? (Start/Stop the App servers, reboot, kill the process,
etc?) Today, we start/stop the appservers, and then reboot if that
doesn't fix it.

Randy, would you mind contacting me offline so I can get some
specifics like the number of appservers you are running? Your
configuration nearly mirrors ours.

Thanks!

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "rstulce" <rstulce@...> wrote:
>
> The short answer is unless your versions of Vantage/Progress and
SQL Server
> are designed to utilize the 64bit processors you won't get any
improvement
> if you move to 64bit Server. They'll just start in 32bit mode on
a 64bit
> OS.
>
>
>
> We're pretty close to your specs. The hardware specs SHOULD be
able to
> keep up with the amount of uses we have. Our old ERP system (Epicor
> Platinum for Windows ) was running on a old Compaq server with only
1 CPU
> and 1Gig RAM and it ran faster than Vantage 8 does. We even
doubled the
> recommended specs as given to use by Epicor last year when we
purchased the
> hardware.
>
>
>
> We have Vantage 8.0 (810c) SQL Server version and 35 users running
on a Dell
> PowerEdge 2850 server with Dual Xeon processors and 4GB RAM. Our
OS is
> Windows Server 2003 Standard and SQL Server 2000 Standard. Our
performance
> is also VERY SLOOOOOOOOWWWWWW, in fact it takes 1.5 hours to run a
Job
> Traveler report with only 40 jobs on it.
>
>
>
> When user(s) report an issue with Vantage, I check the Vantage
System
> Monitor to see what Active Tasks are running and get the PID(s) of
the
> active tasks. Then I check the PID(s) in Progress Explorer* (a more
> advanced version of Task Manager) to see how much memory/CPU they
are using.
> Usually it's one of these Progress "_proapsv.exe' processes taking
up about
> 30% (or more) of the total CPU power with SQLServer.exe taking
another
> 20-30%. When you add in the other users, the CPUs are at 99%.
>
>
>
> I've noticed that the Job Traveler, Mass Issue, Job Creation,
Inventory WIP
> Reconciliation, and others all eat up most of the CPU when running
leaving
> the remaining users to fight over the remaining CPU. Heaven
forbid users
> try to run more than one of these at a time.
>
>
>
> * Progress Explorer is a free utility from SysInternals, who got
purchased
> by MSoft last year or so.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> jameswi2000
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Epicor 8.x and SQL Server Standard and Windows
2000
> Server Standard
>
>
>
> We have the following software and hardware that was purchased
> pretty much the day Vantage 8.0 was released to the general public.
> We feel the performance could be better, and would like to know if
> anyone is running similar hardware and software, and if so, how
they
> have it configured.
>
> Software:
> --------
> Windows 2000 Server (Standard) SP4
> SQL Server 2000 (Standard) SP4
> Progress OpenEdge 10.0B SP5
> Vantage 8.10x, 30 Users
>
> Hardware:
> --------
> Dell PowerEdge 2800 Server
> Dual 3.4Ghz Xeon CPU
> 4 36GB 15K RPM SCSI Disks, RAID 10
> 4 GB RAM
> Dell Dimension E3100 Workstations
> 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 CPU 630, 800 FSB
> 1 GB RAM
> 7200 RPM SATA Disk Drives
> Gigabit Ethernet Network
>
> For the most part, we are trying to figure out the least cost way
to
> improve performance on our server. We aren't sure whether memory or
> disk IO will help, or possibly another server.
>
> Memory Concept:
> Right now, we are using all physical memory, and the RAID
controller
> is using 750MB (apparently Dell RAID controllers do this when they
> see 4GB or more of memory). That leaves 3.25 GB for SQL Server and
> OpenEdge and the OS. SQL Server Std will use 2GB if there is enough
> memory (we have it limited to 1.25 GB right now), but that only
> leaves 1.25GB for OpenEdge and the OS.
>
> Some thoughts are to move to Windows 2003 64-bit, but would SQL
> Server Std and OpenEdge gain enough from it? SQL Server Std will
> still be limited to 2GB (so we'll gain 750 MB). I'm not sure if
> OpenEdge and its app servers can move above the 4GB to free up
> memory for the OS and such. Also, SQL Server seems to run speedy
> now anyway.
>
> Disk IO Concept:
> We are running the logs, the DB the OS and the application on a
> single RAID 10 drive, with the OS on its own logical drive.
>
> We could purchase four more drives and build mirror drives for the
> OS and mirrored drives for the SQL db logs, and leave the RAID 10
> with the db. But is that going to really help? We don't seem to
> have huge disk performance issues and, again, sql server is running
> fine.
>
> Two Server Concept:
> A last thought is to purchase a low-end server with mirrored disks
> and run the Vantage App and OpenEdge there, and leave SQL Server on
> its own server (the existing one). The catch here is that Epicor
> suggests against this above a certain number of users (I think it
is
> 100). While we don't have that many now, this is enough to move us
> away from the two server idea.
>
> Of course all these options add cost. OS upgrades seem to be the
> highest cost. Also, we know that upgrading to SQL Server Enterprise
> is not a cost effective solution. Ideally, we want to keep our
> upgrade investment under $5K (preferably nothing at all).
>
> In summary, we are looking to see how people who have similar
> hardware and software are configured. In addition, we would like
> solicit ideas on how to best improve the performance using our
> existing investment. Someone who is running a configuration similar
> to ours would probably supply the best information since the are
> proving it out in the real world.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>