Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice

Thanks this is helpful, downloading it now.

J

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> https://epicweb.epicor.com/doc/Docs/ICE_SDK25_BO_Methods.pdf
>
> If that link doesn't survive the login process, its mixed in with the other
> docs. It popped up when they started giving the ICE manuals and such out for
> free.
>
> Epicor 9 > Documentation > 905.603
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:39 AM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Joe... I will inquire with Epicor about such.
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Joe Rojas <jrojas@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carlos "Kenny" Rodriquez, from Epicor, has taught at least two Advanced
> > > Programming courses at the request of members of this group.
> > >
> > > I attended the east coast one and I think it was worth every penny.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You might want to contact him to see if he can help get you started.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > > Of James
> > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:14 AM
> > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it
> > > for special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's
> > > would rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes
> > > will be flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly
> > > pulling stock and customer information in a read-only fashion using the
> > > BO's or web services or creating an order inside epicor from the web
> > > site. So its good to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a
> > > small percentage of our transactions and a worst case.
> > >
> > > All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.
> > >
> > > When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where
> > > you provided? or did you just hack through it?
> > >
> > > So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
> > > biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects
> > > are documented.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , Jose
> > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
> > > they
> > > > stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
> > > >
> > > > But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
> > > up.
> > > >
> > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > *
> > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > E: jose@
> > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > >
> > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the
> > > method is
> > > > > documented poorly (if at all).
> > > > >
> > > > > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM
> > > directives which
> > > > > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive.
> > > So you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > actually call some short of external method to do something
> > > ...useful,
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Rojas | Director of Information Technology | Mats Inc
> > > dir: 781-573-0291 | cell: 781-408-9278 | fax: 781-232-5191
> > > jrojas@ | www.matsinc.com Ask us about our clean, green and beautiful
> > matting and flooring
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are not
> > the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this
> > e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received
> > this e-mail by mistake. Please note that any views or opinions presented in
> > this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
> > those of the company.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of James
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
> > > would
> > > > > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
> > > build.
> > > > > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
> > > based
> > > > > so
> > > > > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to
> > > be on a
> > > > > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there
> > > is a
> > > > > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J
> > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > Waffqle
> > > > > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
> > > though:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and
> > > redeploy it
> > > > > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
> > > this a
> > > > > > lot)
> > > > > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
> > > that
> > > > > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
> > > light
> > > > > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > > > > recompile/distribute
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just an FYI.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
> > > option.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder'
> > > (or any
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > > > > Connect,
> > > > > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go
> > > if you
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need
> > > to be
> > > > > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
> > > learn;
> > > > > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
> > > concepts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and
> > > experience are
> > > > > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
> > > supposedly
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
> > > wrong
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point
> > > by his
> > > > > > sales
> > > > > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external
> > > systems
> > > > > into
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > Anyways....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > > > > "Epicor"
> > > > > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
> > > and
> > > > > tie
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > .net
> > > > > > > > camp.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > Jose
> > > > > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no
> > > need for
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr
> > > UI
> > > > > access
> > > > > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
> > > anyways.
> > > > > > > > Although
> > > > > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
> > > and it
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the
> > > direct BO
> > > > > or
> > > > > > Web
> > > > > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to
> > > the DB
> > > > > > (EVER)
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
> > > know
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel
> > > safer
> > > > > > sticking
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor
> > > manage the
> > > > > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what
> > > you can
> > > > > > do.
> > > > > > > > Look
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore
> > > 9.05 and
> > > > > we
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation
> > > about the
> > > > > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from
> > > some of
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes
> > > which are
> > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with
> > > C#.net / XML
> > > > > /
> > > > > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch
> > > and
> > > > > > off-line
> > > > > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
> > > that
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
> > > other
> > > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
> > > from a
> > > > > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also,
> > > any
> > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > > > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
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Hello all,

My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are looking for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA' layers and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our internal applications (web applications and internal processes which are pretty much based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML / SOAP / SQL.

Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would be grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other systems outside of Epicor.

We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a contractor, which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any information anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or arguing this topic.

Thanks again in advance,

Jim
I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do. Look for
videos at yoytube.com/n00164405

Sent from mobile
On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are looking
for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA' layers
and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our internal
applications (web applications and internal processes which are pretty much
based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML / SOAP /
SQL.
>
> Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would be
grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other systems
outside of Epicor.
>
> We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a contractor,
which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any information
anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
arguing this topic.
>
> Thanks again in advance,
>
> Jim
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Jose,

This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the object model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking with the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the "rules".

Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?

J

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do. Look for
> videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
>
> Sent from mobile
> On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are looking
> for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA' layers
> and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our internal
> applications (web applications and internal processes which are pretty much
> based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML / SOAP /
> SQL.
> >
> > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would be
> grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other systems
> outside of Epicor.
> >
> > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a contractor,
> which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any information
> anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> arguing this topic.
> >
> > Thanks again in advance,
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for that ,
that's the whole point of SOA.


In terms of performance you have the following

Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
because it lacks all the UI stuff.
Web Services -> Slower than BO's
BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways. Although
it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it doesn't
handle large data sets well.

For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or Web
Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB (EVER) I
would perhaps find a new contractor.




*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks Jose,
>
> This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the object
> model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking with
> the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the "rules".
>
> Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
>
> J
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
> >
> > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do. Look
> for
> > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> >
> > Sent from mobile
> > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are
> looking
> > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA'
> layers
> > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our internal
> > applications (web applications and internal processes which are pretty
> much
> > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML / SOAP /
> > SQL.
> > >
> > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would be
> > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other systems
> > outside of Epicor.
> > >
> > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> contractor,
> > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any information
> > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> > arguing this topic.
> > >
> > > Thanks again in advance,
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly the "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong doing the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his sales team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into it. Anyways....

Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor" lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie into our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the .net camp.

So thanks again for you advice.

J
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for that ,
> that's the whole point of SOA.
>
>
> In terms of performance you have the following
>
> Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
> because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways. Although
> it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it doesn't
> handle large data sets well.
>
> For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or Web
> Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB (EVER) I
> would perhaps find a new contractor.
>
>
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Jose,
> >
> > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the object
> > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking with
> > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the "rules".
> >
> > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do. Look
> > for
> > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > >
> > > Sent from mobile
> > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are
> > looking
> > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA'
> > layers
> > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our internal
> > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are pretty
> > much
> > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML / SOAP /
> > > SQL.
> > > >
> > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would be
> > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other systems
> > > outside of Epicor.
> > > >
> > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > contractor,
> > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any information
> > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> > > arguing this topic.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:

- You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a lot)
- The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.

These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.

Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute if
the Business Objects you're using have changed.

Just an FYI.

Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any old
method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you want
to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.


On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:


>
> Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly the
> "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong doing
> the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his sales
> team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into it.
> Anyways....
>
> Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
> lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie into
> our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the .net
> camp.
>
> So thanks again for you advice.
>
>
> J
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
> >
> > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for that
> ,
> > that's the whole point of SOA.
> >
> >
> > In terms of performance you have the following
> >
> > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
> > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> Although
> > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> doesn't
> > handle large data sets well.
> >
> > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or Web
> > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB (EVER)
> I
> > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Jose C Gomez*
> > *Software Engineer*
> > *
> > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > E: jose@...
>
> > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> >
> > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Jose,
> > >
> > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
> object
> > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking
> with
> > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> "rules".
> > >
> > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do.
> Look
> > > for
> > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > >
> > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are
> > > looking
> > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA'
> > > layers
> > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
> internal
> > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> pretty
> > > much
> > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
> SOAP /
> > > > SQL.
> > > > >
> > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would
> be
> > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> systems
> > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > >
> > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > contractor,
> > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> information
> > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Waffqle,

Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build. Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based so disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a client from what I have learned so far.

So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a before and after hook we can tie into?

J
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
>
> - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
> everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a lot)
> - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
>
> These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
> difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
>
> Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
> performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute if
> the Business Objects you're using have changed.
>
> Just an FYI.
>
> Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
> are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any old
> method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
> etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you want
> to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
> written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
> especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly the
> > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong doing
> > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his sales
> > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into it.
> > Anyways....
> >
> > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
> > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie into
> > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the .net
> > camp.
> >
> > So thanks again for you advice.
> >
> >
> > J
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for that
> > ,
> > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > >
> > >
> > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > >
> > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
> > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> > Although
> > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> > doesn't
> > > handle large data sets well.
> > >
> > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or Web
> > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB (EVER)
> > I
> > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > *Software Engineer*
> > > *
> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > E: jose@
> >
> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > >
> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > >
> > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
> > object
> > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking
> > with
> > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> > "rules".
> > > >
> > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do.
> > Look
> > > > for
> > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are
> > > > looking
> > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA'
> > > > layers
> > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
> > internal
> > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> > pretty
> > > > much
> > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
> > SOAP /
> > > > > SQL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would
> > be
> > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> > systems
> > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > > contractor,
> > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > information
> > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Yes you get before after and base( allows change of whole method see instead
of trigger)

Sent from mobile
On May 19, 2011 5:06 PM, "James" <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Waffqle,
>
> Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would
know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build.
Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based so
disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a
client from what I have learned so far.
>
> So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a
before and after hook we can tie into?
>
> J
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>>
>> Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
>>
>> - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
>> everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a
lot)
>> - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
>>
>> These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
>> difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
>>
>> Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
>> performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute
if
>> the Business Objects you're using have changed.
>>
>> Just an FYI.
>>
>> Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
>> are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any
old
>> method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
>> etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you
want
>> to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
>> written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
>> especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
>> > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly
the
>> > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong
doing
>> > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his
sales
>> > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into
it.
>> > Anyways....
>> >
>> > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
>> > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie
into
>> > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the
.net
>> > camp.
>> >
>> > So thanks again for you advice.
>> >
>> >
>> > J
>> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for
that
>> > ,
>> > > that's the whole point of SOA.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In terms of performance you have the following
>> > >
>> > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
>> > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
>> > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
>> > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
>> > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
>> > Although
>> > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
>> > doesn't
>> > > handle large data sets well.
>> > >
>> > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or
Web
>> > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB
(EVER)
>> > I
>> > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Jose C Gomez*
>> > > *Software Engineer*
>> > > *
>> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
>> > > E: jose@
>> >
>> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
>> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
>> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
>> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
>> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
>> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
>> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>> > >
>> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks Jose,
>> > > >
>> > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
>> > object
>> > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
sticking
>> > with
>> > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
>> > "rules".
>> > > >
>> > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
>> > > >
>> > > > J
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can
do.
>> > Look
>> > > > for
>> > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Sent from mobile
>> > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
>> > > > > > Hello all,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we
are
>> > > > looking
>> > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the
'SOA'
>> > > > layers
>> > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
>> > internal
>> > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
>> > pretty
>> > > > much
>> > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
>> > SOAP /
>> > > > > SQL.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
off-line
>> > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that
would
>> > be
>> > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
>> > systems
>> > > > > outside of Epicor.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
>> > > > contractor,
>> > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
>> > information
>> > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
accepting or
>> > > > > arguing this topic.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jim
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Actually now that I think about it
Think of bpm as trigger before after or instead of procedure
While data directives are the equivalent of regular triggers.

The problem with bpm is that they are less flexible and cannot be easily
called externally. But since they happen before or after a method you can
call the regular Bo's from .net and have the bpms run.

Sent from mobile
On May 19, 2011 5:06 PM, "James" <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Waffqle,
>
> Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would
know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build.
Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based so
disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a
client from what I have learned so far.
>
> So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a
before and after hook we can tie into?
>
> J
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>>
>> Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
>>
>> - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
>> everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a
lot)
>> - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
>>
>> These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
>> difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
>>
>> Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
>> performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute
if
>> the Business Objects you're using have changed.
>>
>> Just an FYI.
>>
>> Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
>> are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any
old
>> method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
>> etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you
want
>> to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
>> written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
>> especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
>> > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly
the
>> > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong
doing
>> > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his
sales
>> > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into
it.
>> > Anyways....
>> >
>> > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
>> > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie
into
>> > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the
.net
>> > camp.
>> >
>> > So thanks again for you advice.
>> >
>> >
>> > J
>> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for
that
>> > ,
>> > > that's the whole point of SOA.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In terms of performance you have the following
>> > >
>> > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
>> > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
>> > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
>> > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
>> > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
>> > Although
>> > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
>> > doesn't
>> > > handle large data sets well.
>> > >
>> > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or
Web
>> > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB
(EVER)
>> > I
>> > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Jose C Gomez*
>> > > *Software Engineer*
>> > > *
>> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
>> > > E: jose@
>> >
>> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
>> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
>> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
>> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
>> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
>> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
>> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>> > >
>> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks Jose,
>> > > >
>> > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
>> > object
>> > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
sticking
>> > with
>> > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
>> > "rules".
>> > > >
>> > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
>> > > >
>> > > > J
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can
do.
>> > Look
>> > > > for
>> > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Sent from mobile
>> > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
>> > > > > > Hello all,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we
are
>> > > > looking
>> > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the
'SOA'
>> > > > layers
>> > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
>> > internal
>> > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
>> > pretty
>> > > > much
>> > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
>> > SOAP /
>> > > > > SQL.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
off-line
>> > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that
would
>> > be
>> > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
>> > systems
>> > > > > outside of Epicor.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
>> > > > contractor,
>> > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
>> > information
>> > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
accepting or
>> > > > > arguing this topic.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jim
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,

Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives which allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So you can actually call some short of external method to do something ...useful, but I have never used it, just I know that it is there.

Good luck

Dimitris Kavvouras
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice



Thanks Waffqle,

Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build. Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based so disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a client from what I have learned so far.

So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a before and after hook we can tie into?

J
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
>
> - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
> everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a lot)
> - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
>
> These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
> difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
>
> Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
> performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute if
> the Business Objects you're using have changed.
>
> Just an FYI.
>
> Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
> are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any old
> method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
> etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you want
> to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
> written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
> especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly the
> > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong doing
> > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his sales
> > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into it.
> > Anyways....
> >
> > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
> > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie into
> > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the .net
> > camp.
> >
> > So thanks again for you advice.
> >
> >
> > J
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for that
> > ,
> > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > >
> > >
> > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > >
> > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
> > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> > Although
> > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> > doesn't
> > > handle large data sets well.
> > >
> > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or Web
> > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB (EVER)
> > I
> > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > *Software Engineer*
> > > *
> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > E: jose@
> >
> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > >
> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > >
> > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
> > object
> > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer sticking
> > with
> > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> > "rules".
> > > >
> > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can do.
> > Look
> > > > for
> > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we are
> > > > looking
> > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the 'SOA'
> > > > layers
> > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
> > internal
> > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> > pretty
> > > > much
> > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
> > SOAP /
> > > > > SQL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and off-line
> > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that would
> > be
> > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> > systems
> > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > > contractor,
> > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > information
> > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in accepting or
> > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the method is
documented poorly (if at all).

We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives which
> allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So you can
> actually call some short of external method to do something ...useful, but I
> have never used it, just I know that it is there.
>
> Good luck
>
> Dimitris Kavvouras
> ________________________________
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of James
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
>
>
> Thanks Waffqle,
>
> Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would
> know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build.
> Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based so
> disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a
> client from what I have learned so far.
>
> So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a
> before and after hook we can tie into?
>
> J
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Waffqle
> <waffqle@...> wrote:
> >
> > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
> >
> > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
> > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a
> lot)
> > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> >
> > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
> > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> >
> > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
> > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to recompile/distribute
> if
> > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> >
> > Just an FYI.
> >
> > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option. They
> > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any
> old
> > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service Connect,
> > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you
> want
> > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
> > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
> > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly
> the
> > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong
> doing
> > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his
> sales
> > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems into
> it.
> > > Anyways....
> > >
> > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the "Epicor"
> > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and tie
> into
> > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from the
> .net
> > > camp.
> > >
> > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > >
> > >
> > > J
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Jose
> Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for
> that
> > > ,
> > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > >
> > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI access
> > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> > > Although
> > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> > > doesn't
> > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > >
> > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO or
> Web
> > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB
> (EVER)
> > > I
> > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > *
> > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > E: jose@
> > >
> > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > >
> > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know the
> > > object
> > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
> sticking
> > > with
> > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> > > "rules".
> > > > >
> > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can
> do.
> > > Look
> > > > > for
> > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and we
> are
> > > > > looking
> > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the
> 'SOA'
> > > > > layers
> > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of our
> > > internal
> > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> > > pretty
> > > > > much
> > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML /
> > > SOAP /
> > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
> off-line
> > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that
> would
> > > be
> > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> > > systems
> > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > > information
> > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> accepting or
> > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor they
stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)

But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it up.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:

> Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the method is
> documented poorly (if at all).
>
> We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives which
> > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So you
> can
> > actually call some short of external method to do something ...useful,
> but I
> > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > ________________________________
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of James
> > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> >
> >
> > Thanks Waffqle,
> >
> > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would
> > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build.
> > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based
> so
> > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a
> > client from what I have learned so far.
> >
> > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a
> > before and after hook we can tie into?
> >
> > J
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Waffqle
> > <waffqle@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
> > >
> > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
> > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a
> > lot)
> > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > >
> > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
> > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > >
> > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
> > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> recompile/distribute
> > if
> > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > >
> > > Just an FYI.
> > >
> > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option.
> They
> > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any
> > old
> > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> Connect,
> > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you
> > want
> > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
> > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
> > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly
> > the
> > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong
> > doing
> > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his
> > sales
> > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems
> into
> > it.
> > > > Anyways....
> > > >
> > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> "Epicor"
> > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and
> tie
> > into
> > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from
> the
> > .net
> > > > camp.
> > > >
> > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Jose
> > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for
> > that
> > > > ,
> > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > >
> > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI
> access
> > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> > > > Although
> > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > >
> > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO
> or
> > Web
> > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB
> > (EVER)
> > > > I
> > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > *
> > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > E: jose@
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > >
> > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know
> the
> > > > object
> > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
> > sticking
> > > > with
> > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> > > > "rules".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> >,
> > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can
> > do.
> > > > Look
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and
> we
> > are
> > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the
> > 'SOA'
> > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of
> our
> > > > internal
> > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> > > > pretty
> > > > > > much
> > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML
> /
> > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
> > off-line
> > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> > > > systems
> > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > > > information
> > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > accepting or
> > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it for special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's would rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes will be flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly pulling stock and customer information in a read-only fashion using the BO's or web services or creating an order inside epicor from the web site. So its good to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a small percentage of our transactions and a worst case.

All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.

When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where you provided? or did you just hack through it?

So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects are documented.

J


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor they
> stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
>
> But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it up.
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the method is
> > documented poorly (if at all).
> >
> > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives which
> > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So you
> > can
> > > actually call some short of external method to do something ...useful,
> > but I
> > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > > Of James
> > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > >
> > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we would
> > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't build.
> > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server based
> > so
> > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be on a
> > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > >
> > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is a
> > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > >
> > > J
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Waffqle
> > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em though:
> > > >
> > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy it
> > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with this a
> > > lot)
> > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > >
> > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't that
> > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > >
> > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is light
> > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > recompile/distribute
> > > if
> > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > >
> > > > Just an FYI.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best option.
> > They
> > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or any
> > > old
> > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > Connect,
> > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if you
> > > want
> > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to be
> > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to learn;
> > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB concepts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience are
> > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is supposedly
> > > the
> > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go wrong
> > > doing
> > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by his
> > > sales
> > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems
> > into
> > > it.
> > > > > Anyways....
> > > > >
> > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > "Epicor"
> > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn and
> > tie
> > > into
> > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way from
> > the
> > > .net
> > > > > camp.
> > > > >
> > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jose
> > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need for
> > > that
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI
> > access
> > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot anyways.
> > > > > Although
> > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky and it
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct BO
> > or
> > > Web
> > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the DB
> > > (EVER)
> > > > > I
> > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you know
> > the
> > > > > object
> > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
> > > sticking
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage the
> > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > J
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > >,
> > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you can
> > > do.
> > > > > Look
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05 and
> > we
> > > are
> > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about the
> > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some of
> > our
> > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which are
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net / XML
> > /
> > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
> > > off-line
> > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes that
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from other
> > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables from a
> > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > > > > information
> > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jose wrote:
> I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor they
> stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)

I tried it once and it's just not worth it IMHO. Two issues:

1) The server passes a dataset of the BO that you're working with to
the BPM server. I have found that not all tables are included that
should be.

2) Since it runs outside of Progress space, you might not have access
to some variables that are normally available if you use ABL.

Mark W.
haha documentation you say?

NONE! Basically, here is a system it does SOA have fun!
a few messages on the list, a few conferences later, and a lot hacking we
figured this beast out. For what is worth Epicor will train you (on some
stuff) but its expensive and as good as the support you get ;-)


*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:13 AM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:

>
>
> Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it for
> special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's would
> rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes will be
> flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly pulling stock
> and customer information in a read-only fashion using the BO's or web
> services or creating an order inside epicor from the web site. So its good
> to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a small percentage of our
> transactions and a worst case.
>
> All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.
>
> When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where you
> provided? or did you just hack through it?
>
> So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
> biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects are
> documented.
>
> J
>
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
> they
> > stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
> >
> > But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
> up.
> >
> > *Jose C Gomez*
> > *Software Engineer*
> > *
> > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > E: jose@...
>
> > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> >
> > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the method
> is
> > > documented poorly (if at all).
> > >
> > > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...
>
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives
> which
> > > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So
> you
> > > can
> > > > actually call some short of external method to do something
> ...useful,
> > > but I
> > > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck
> > > >
> > > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > > > Of James
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > > >
> > > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
> would
> > > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
> build.
> > > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
> based
> > > so
> > > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be
> on a
> > > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > > >
> > > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is
> a
> > > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Waffqle
> > > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
> though:
> > > > >
> > > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy
> it
> > > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
> this a
> > > > lot)
> > > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > > >
> > > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
> that
> > > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > > >
> > > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
> light
> > > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > > recompile/distribute
> > > > if
> > > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just an FYI.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
> option.
> > > They
> > > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or
> any
> > > > old
> > > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > > Connect,
> > > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if
> you
> > > > want
> > > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to
> be
> > > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
> learn;
> > > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
> concepts.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience
> are
> > > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
> supposedly
> > > > the
> > > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
> wrong
> > > > doing
> > > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by
> his
> > > > sales
> > > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems
> > > into
> > > > it.
> > > > > > Anyways....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > > "Epicor"
> > > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
> and
> > > tie
> > > > into
> > > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
> from
> > > the
> > > > .net
> > > > > > camp.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J
> > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> >,
> > > Jose
> > > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need
> for
> > > > that
> > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI
> > > access
> > > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
> anyways.
> > > > > > Although
> > > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
> and it
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct
> BO
> > > or
> > > > Web
> > > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the
> DB
> > > > (EVER)
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
> know
> > > the
> > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
> > > > sticking
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage
> the
> > > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >,
> > > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you
> can
> > > > do.
> > > > > > Look
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05
> and
> > > we
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about
> the
> > > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which
> are
> > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net /
> XML
> > > /
> > > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
> > > > off-line
> > > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
> that
> > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
> other
> > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
> from a
> > > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and
> > > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Carlos "Kenny" Rodriquez, from Epicor, has taught at least two Advanced
Programming courses at the request of members of this group.

I attended the east coast one and I think it was worth every penny.



You might want to contact him to see if he can help get you started.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of James
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice





Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it
for special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's
would rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes
will be flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly
pulling stock and customer information in a read-only fashion using the
BO's or web services or creating an order inside epicor from the web
site. So its good to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a
small percentage of our transactions and a worst case.

All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.

When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where
you provided? or did you just hack through it?

So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects
are documented.

J


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , Jose
Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
they
> stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
>
> But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
up.
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the
method is
> > documented poorly (if at all).
> >
> > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM
directives which
> > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive.
So you
> > can
> > > actually call some short of external method to do something
...useful,
> > but I
> > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > >










Joe Rojas | Director of Information Technology | Mats Inc
dir: 781-573-0291 | cell: 781-408-9278 | fax: 781-232-5191
jrojas@... | www.matsinc.com Ask us about our clean, green and beautiful matting and flooring


This message is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.



________________________________

> > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> > > Of James
> > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > >
> > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
would
> > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
build.
> > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
based
> > so
> > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to
be on a
> > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > >
> > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there
is a
> > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > >
> > > J
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Waffqle
> > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
though:
> > > >
> > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and
redeploy it
> > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
this a
> > > lot)
> > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > >
> > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
that
> > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > >
> > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
light
> > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > recompile/distribute
> > > if
> > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > >
> > > > Just an FYI.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
option.
> > They
> > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder'
(or any
> > > old
> > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > Connect,
> > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go
if you
> > > want
> > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need
to be
> > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
learn;
> > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
concepts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and
experience are
> > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
supposedly
> > > the
> > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
wrong
> > > doing
> > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point
by his
> > > sales
> > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external
systems
> > into
> > > it.
> > > > > Anyways....
> > > > >
> > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > "Epicor"
> > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
and
> > tie
> > > into
> > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
from
> > the
> > > .net
> > > > > camp.
> > > > >
> > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jose
> > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no
need for
> > > that
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr
UI
> > access
> > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
anyways.
> > > > > Although
> > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
and it
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the
direct BO
> > or
> > > Web
> > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to
the DB
> > > (EVER)
> > > > > I
> > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
know
> > the
> > > > > object
> > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel
safer
> > > sticking
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor
manage the
> > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > J
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > >,
> > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what
you can
> > > do.
> > > > > Look
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore
9.05 and
> > we
> > > are
> > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation
about the
> > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from
some of
> > our
> > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes
which are
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with
C#.net / XML
> > /
> > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch
and
> > > off-line
> > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
that
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
other
> > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
from a
> > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also,
any
> > > > > information
> > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They are getting better though. The new ICE docs are miles better than the
stuff they had before.
There is even a doc that lists the Business Objects and their methods with
(admittedly brief) descriptions.

The best way to learn the BOs is to use the trace functionality. Enable
tracing, then do something in Epicor and the system will give you a log of
every BO method it called. It'll even show you the datasets it's using if
you check the right box.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:

> haha documentation you say?
>
> NONE! Basically, here is a system it does SOA have fun!
> a few messages on the list, a few conferences later, and a lot hacking we
> figured this beast out. For what is worth Epicor will train you (on some
> stuff) but its expensive and as good as the support you get ;-)
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85
> >
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:13 AM, James <jamescompton@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it for
> > special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's
> would
> > rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes will be
> > flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly pulling
> stock
> > and customer information in a read-only fashion using the BO's or web
> > services or creating an order inside epicor from the web site. So its
> good
> > to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a small percentage of our
> > transactions and a worst case.
> >
> > All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.
> >
> > When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where
> you
> > provided? or did you just hack through it?
> >
> > So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
> > biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects are
> > documented.
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
> > they
> > > stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
> > >
> > > But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
> > up.
> > >
> > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > *Software Engineer*
> > > *
> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > E: jose@...
> >
> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > >
> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the
> method
> > is
> > > > documented poorly (if at all).
> > > >
> > > > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@...
> >
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives
> > which
> > > > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > > actually call some short of external method to do something
> > ...useful,
> > > > but I
> > > > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck
> > > > >
> > > > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > > > Of James
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > > > >
> > > > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
> > would
> > > > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
> > build.
> > > > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
> > based
> > > > so
> > > > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be
> > on a
> > > > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there
> is
> > a
> > > > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Waffqle
> > > > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
> > though:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and
> redeploy
> > it
> > > > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
> > this a
> > > > > lot)
> > > > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
> > that
> > > > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
> > light
> > > > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > > > recompile/distribute
> > > > > if
> > > > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just an FYI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
> > option.
> > > > They
> > > > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder'
> (or
> > any
> > > > > old
> > > > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > > > Connect,
> > > > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go
> if
> > you
> > > > > want
> > > > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need
> to
> > be
> > > > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
> > learn;
> > > > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
> > concepts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and
> experience
> > are
> > > > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
> > supposedly
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
> > wrong
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point
> by
> > his
> > > > > sales
> > > > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external
> systems
> > > > into
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > Anyways....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > > > "Epicor"
> > > > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
> > and
> > > > tie
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > .net
> > > > > > > camp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > >,
> > > > Jose
> > > > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no
> need
> > for
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr
> UI
> > > > access
> > > > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
> > anyways.
> > > > > > > Although
> > > > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
> > and it
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the
> direct
> > BO
> > > > or
> > > > > Web
> > > > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to
> the
> > DB
> > > > > (EVER)
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
> > know
> > > > the
> > > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel
> safer
> > > > > sticking
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor
> manage
> > the
> > > > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> > vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > >,
> > > > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what
> you
> > can
> > > > > do.
> > > > > > > Look
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05
> > and
> > > > we
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation
> about
> > the
> > > > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes
> which
> > are
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net
> /
> > XML
> > > > /
> > > > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch
> and
> > > > > off-line
> > > > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
> > that
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
> > other
> > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
> > from a
> > > > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also,
> any
> > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have
> > > > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> > and
> > > > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah... I am learning this... We have seen the blank stare. Well won't be the first time I've hacked through an interface. But it's worth asking. I only got scared when our contractor started talking direct table access for integration. When I grilled him which tables he would touch and why he would not use any of the other tools his response was: "It was the fastest way to do it....". groan.... sounds like the fastest way to unemployment too... I am now second guessing everything from the "expert". :)

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> haha documentation you say?
>
> NONE! Basically, here is a system it does SOA have fun!
> a few messages on the list, a few conferences later, and a lot hacking we
> figured this beast out. For what is worth Epicor will train you (on some
> stuff) but its expensive and as good as the support you get ;-)
>
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:13 AM, James <jamescompton@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it for
> > special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's would
> > rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes will be
> > flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly pulling stock
> > and customer information in a read-only fashion using the BO's or web
> > services or creating an order inside epicor from the web site. So its good
> > to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a small percentage of our
> > transactions and a worst case.
> >
> > All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.
> >
> > When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where you
> > provided? or did you just hack through it?
> >
> > So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
> > biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects are
> > documented.
> >
> > J
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
> > they
> > > stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
> > >
> > > But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
> > up.
> > >
> > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > *Software Engineer*
> > > *
> > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > E: jose@
> >
> > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > >
> > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the method
> > is
> > > > documented poorly (if at all).
> > > >
> > > > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@
> >
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives
> > which
> > > > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > > actually call some short of external method to do something
> > ...useful,
> > > > but I
> > > > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck
> > > > >
> > > > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > > > Of James
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > > > >
> > > > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
> > would
> > > > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
> > build.
> > > > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
> > based
> > > > so
> > > > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be
> > on a
> > > > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there is
> > a
> > > > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > > > >
> > > > > J
> > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Waffqle
> > > > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
> > though:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and redeploy
> > it
> > > > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
> > this a
> > > > > lot)
> > > > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
> > that
> > > > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
> > light
> > > > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > > > recompile/distribute
> > > > > if
> > > > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just an FYI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
> > option.
> > > > They
> > > > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder' (or
> > any
> > > > > old
> > > > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > > > Connect,
> > > > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go if
> > you
> > > > > want
> > > > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need to
> > be
> > > > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
> > learn;
> > > > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
> > concepts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and experience
> > are
> > > > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
> > supposedly
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
> > wrong
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point by
> > his
> > > > > sales
> > > > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external systems
> > > > into
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > > Anyways....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > > > "Epicor"
> > > > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
> > and
> > > > tie
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > .net
> > > > > > > camp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > >,
> > > > Jose
> > > > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no need
> > for
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr UI
> > > > access
> > > > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
> > anyways.
> > > > > > > Although
> > > > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
> > and it
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the direct
> > BO
> > > > or
> > > > > Web
> > > > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to the
> > DB
> > > > > (EVER)
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
> > know
> > > > the
> > > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel safer
> > > > > sticking
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor manage
> > the
> > > > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> > vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > >,
> > > > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what you
> > can
> > > > > do.
> > > > > > > Look
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05
> > and
> > > > we
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation about
> > the
> > > > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes which
> > are
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net /
> > XML
> > > > /
> > > > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch and
> > > > > off-line
> > > > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
> > that
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
> > other
> > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
> > from a
> > > > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also, any
> > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > have
> > > > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> > and
> > > > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Awsome Waffqle... Would you know the name of the doc that lists the objects or link to it? Not getting my hope up for alot of detail... but anything is a starting spot.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Waffqle <waffqle@...> wrote:
>
> They are getting better though. The new ICE docs are miles better than the
> stuff they had before.
> There is even a doc that lists the Business Objects and their methods with
> (admittedly brief) descriptions.
>
> The best way to learn the BOs is to use the trace functionality. Enable
> tracing, then do something in Epicor and the system will give you a log of
> every BO method it called. It'll even show you the datasets it's using if
> you check the right box.
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:
>
> > haha documentation you say?
> >
> > NONE! Basically, here is a system it does SOA have fun!
> > a few messages on the list, a few conferences later, and a lot hacking we
> > figured this beast out. For what is worth Epicor will train you (on some
> > stuff) but its expensive and as good as the support you get ;-)
> >
> >
> > *Jose C Gomez*
> > *Software Engineer*
> > *
> > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > E: jose@...
> > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85
> > >
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> >
> > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:13 AM, James <jamescompton@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well it sounds like one of those tools that is there when you need it for
> > > special occasions. From what I believe we are going to do, the BPM's
> > would
> > > rarely call outside the Epicor universe. I think our processes will be
> > > flowing the other way with Epicor as the target system. Mostly pulling
> > stock
> > > and customer information in a read-only fashion using the BO's or web
> > > services or creating an order inside epicor from the web site. So its
> > good
> > > to know you can do it, but I hope this would be a small percentage of our
> > > transactions and a worst case.
> > >
> > > All of you comments are very good things to know, thank you.
> > >
> > > When you guys started working with Epicor/Vantage.... what tools where
> > you
> > > provided? or did you just hack through it?
> > >
> > > So far we have a manual on service connect and ICE tools (looks like a
> > > biztalk type tool). I am probably naive to think the business objects are
> > > documented.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've used it before is hairy and not supported (AKA if you call Epicor
> > > they
> > > > stare at you blankly... oh wait they do that for every problem -_-)
> > > >
> > > > But If you ever want to know how to use it let me know and I'll dig it
> > > up.
> > > >
> > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > *
> > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > E: jose@
> > >
> > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > >
> > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Waffqle <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Indeed. Fair warning though it's a bit of a pain to use and the
> > method
> > > is
> > > > > documented poorly (if at all).
> > > > >
> > > > > We figured it out one time and haven't touched it since.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Dimitris Kavvouras <d.kavvouras@
> > >
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just a short info, there is also an action method on BPM directives
> > > which
> > > > > > allow you make a .NET method call from inside the BPM directive. So
> > > you
> > > > > can
> > > > > > actually call some short of external method to do something
> > > ...useful,
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > have never used it, just I know that it is there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good luck
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dimitris Kavvouras
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of James
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 12:07 AM
> > > > > > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicore 9.x 'SOA'/BO access advice
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Waffqle,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not a surprise about a recompile... I actually like that since we
> > > would
> > > > > > know if a contract changed between versions since the app wouldn't
> > > build.
> > > > > > Plus all of our connecting applications to epicore would be server
> > > based
> > > > > so
> > > > > > disk space is of no issue. I don't suspect it would ever need to be
> > > on a
> > > > > > client from what I have learned so far.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So the BPM's work like kinda like a trigger then? I suppose there
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > > before and after hook we can tie into?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > J
> > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > Waffqle
> > > > > > <waffqle@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Direct BO's are nice. Couple things to remember when you use em
> > > though:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - You'll need to recompile your app with the new DLL's and
> > redeploy
> > > it
> > > > > > > everytime your version of Epicor changes. (click-once helps with
> > > this a
> > > > > > lot)
> > > > > > > - The DLL's will need to be packaged with the your app.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These may not really be issues for you. Deployment usually isn't
> > > that
> > > > > > > difficult and drive space hasn't been an issue in ages.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Web Services will get you around those 'issues', though there is
> > > light
> > > > > > > performance hit. Upgrades will still require you to
> > > > > recompile/distribute
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > the Business Objects you're using have changed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just an FYI.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, if you can get away with a BPM that's usually the best
> > > option.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > are quick and they affect ALL business logic. If 'getNewOrder'
> > (or
> > > any
> > > > > > old
> > > > > > > method) gets called from a native form, BO, Web Service, Service
> > > > > Connect,
> > > > > > > etc your BPM will still fire. They're by far the best way to go
> > if
> > > you
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > to just adjust the business logic 'across the board'. They need
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > > written in ABL/4GL (progress language) but it's pretty easy to
> > > learn;
> > > > > > > especially if you're already familiar with SQL and general DB
> > > concepts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM, James <jamescompton@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your points reinforce what my thoughts, instincts and
> > experience
> > > are
> > > > > > > > telling me. I was frustrated when our "contractor" who is
> > > supposedly
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > "expert" even suggested that... I am realizing the I won't go
> > > wrong
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > the exact opposite of what he suggests. The main selling point
> > by
> > > his
> > > > > > sales
> > > > > > > > team to us was the SOA layer so we could tie our external
> > systems
> > > > > into
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > Anyways....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your comments are helpful, since I am starting to pick up the
> > > > > "Epicor"
> > > > > > > > lingo to start to focus our team on the correct spots to learn
> > > and
> > > > > tie
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > our application layers. The Direct BO's look like the best way
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > .net
> > > > > > > > camp.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So thanks again for you advice.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> > vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >,
> > > > > Jose
> > > > > > Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would rarely if ever go the direct DB route. There is no
> > need
> > > for
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > that's the whole point of SOA.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In terms of performance you have the following
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Direct BO Access as shown on the vid -> Faster than regualr
> > UI
> > > > > access
> > > > > > > > > because it lacks all the UI stuff.
> > > > > > > > > Web Services -> Slower than BO's
> > > > > > > > > BPM-> Faster then both, but more dificult/ less flexible.
> > > > > > > > > Service Connects -> Un-usable/ slow and its a crap shoot
> > > anyways.
> > > > > > > > Although
> > > > > > > > > it uses either the web services or BO's but the UI is clunky
> > > and it
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > handle large data sets well.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For direct synchronous processes I would use either the
> > direct
> > > BO
> > > > > or
> > > > > > Web
> > > > > > > > > Service. If a contractor is asking you to directly write to
> > the
> > > DB
> > > > > > (EVER)
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > would perhaps find a new contractor.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Jose C Gomez*
> > > > > > > > > *Software Engineer*
> > > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> > > > > > > > > E: jose@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.josecgomez.com
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <
> > > > > > > > http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <
> > > > > > > > http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
> > > > > > > > > <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James <jamescompton@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks Jose,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is really helpful. Looks fairly rudimentary once you
> > > know
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > object
> > > > > > > > > > model. I suspect the contractor is "old school", I feel
> > safer
> > > > > > sticking
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > the business layer whenever possible so we like Epicor
> > manage
> > > the
> > > > > > > > "rules".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any pointers you can offer from a performance stand point?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > J
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
> > > vantage%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > Jose Gomez <jose@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I sent a you tube video a few days ago that shows what
> > you
> > > can
> > > > > > do.
> > > > > > > > Look
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > videos at yoytube.com/n00164405
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2011 12:22 PM, "comptonjames" <jamescompton@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My company is in the process of installing Epicore 9.05
> > > and
> > > > > we
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > > > > > for some advice and maybe some possible documentation
> > about
> > > the
> > > > > > 'SOA'
> > > > > > > > > > layers
> > > > > > > > > > > and how we can access Epicor's Business Objects from some
> > > of
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > > applications (web applications and internal processes
> > which
> > > are
> > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > > based on SOAP). We are a very proficient shop with C#.net
> > /
> > > XML
> > > > > /
> > > > > > > > SOAP /
> > > > > > > > > > > SQL.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Service connect looks like it will be great for batch
> > and
> > > > > > off-line
> > > > > > > > > > > processes, but we are looking many synchronous processes
> > > that
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > grabbing customer and part information in real-time from
> > > other
> > > > > > > > systems
> > > > > > > > > > > outside of Epicor.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > We have gotten advice to go directly to the SQL tables
> > > from a
> > > > > > > > > > contractor,
> > > > > > > > > > > which frankly doesn't pass the smell test to us. Also,
> > any
> > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > anyone could share or point out would be very helpful in
> > > > > > accepting or
> > > > > > > > > > > arguing this topic.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks again in advance,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jim
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> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> > > have
> > > > > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > > > > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> > > and
> > > > > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > > > > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > > > > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
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> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>