ERP Developer/Admin Career Growth

This is really key. Great list of resources, @Mark_Wonsil. Not too many people know that Dr. Goldratt also wrote a book about ERP implementation called “Necessary but not sufficient”. The content is a bit dated compared to today’s Epicor, but it’s still really good to see how the system needs to fit into the business and how we need to make changes based on the new tools at our disposal.

And if you’re going to go there, a great place to study production management is

http://dbrmfg.co.nz/

Thanks for this thread @jnbadger, it’s a great conversation to follow.

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Mark, love hearing about your background! My degree is actually in Physics :smiley:, and I happened in the math and comp. sci. community because of the program’s requirements.

Lol, love your therapist analogy! I’ve been so surprised by the amount of coaching and people coordination that comes with the ERP admin role. That is a wonderful suggestion though! I am lucky to work for the CFO who has that broad understanding at my company and tries to give me opportunities to learn the entire “enterprise.”

Thank you so much for all of the suggestions/advice! That’s exactly what I was trying to get out of this conversation :slight_smile:

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Calvin, that is a great point you bring up about helping others in this community. I always appreciate your help!! :slight_smile: Someone else on this thread mentioned putting aside time for learning each day or week. I think i’ll run with that concept and also add that I should set aside time for solving problems on this forum! I try to when I think of it, but actually putting aside the time would probably be more beneficial than I realize.

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Yep. I actually saw Eli at the APICS conference in Orlando in 2000. (Did someone hear a name hitting the floor???) Colin Powell was the key note speaker prior to the election that Florida is famous for. Eli also did a version of the The Goal for sales and marketing, production control, conflict resolution called “It’s Not Luck”.

Anywho, I saw him sitting at a picnic table outside the convention center. There were five or six young women sitting around him - probably students. I walked up to him with a copy of “Necessary But Not Sufficient” to be signed. It took a few moments to catch his attention and when I did I said, “It appears to me that you are the constraint here.” He chuckled, signed my book, and got back to the ladies.

BTW, the heroine in “The Phoenix Project” is the ERP manager!

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Cool!

Yup… a friend met a famous singer who Shall Be Nameless at an AA meeting and said "I’m feeling Wonderful Tonight … " and got one of those slightly pained chuckles that famous people give who actually earned their fame through hard work

I never went to college… probably learned half of what little I know of business from Dr. Goldratt, and the rest from experience. First read “The Goal” when I was 15 working in my dad’s machine shop!

Basically in the context of @jnbadger 's thread, every problem you solve adds to a unique set of knowledge that will help your career move forward. So the trick is to selectively engage in as many problems as possible.

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Steve, glad you are enjoying the thread! I am thrilled with the amount of responses. This feedback has been wonderful. Thank you for the comments and book suggestion!

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Just make sure you don’t buy the graphic novel version like my company just did when I asked them to buy for people to read here :roll_eyes:… Unless you really like comics.

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oh my…

The movie version isn’t bad, I played it for my kids from age 3 or 4…

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I was sure you were kidding. You are not.

I can’t tell you all how much I enjoyed all of these posts as well. Seems like I am not alone in the crazy-path-to-this-job club. This was not in the guidance counselor’s list in high school.

But it can’t be. Like everyone has said, only human experience prepares you for this job.

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Tim, always love your feedback here and enjoyed reading about your career in the recent Epicor LinkedIn post! Very cool story you have :slight_smile:

Point # 2 is particularly interesting. My boss has been talking about short-term and long-term goals recently, and I struggle with the long-term piece because this job can lead to so many different paths. I think I prefer to further my skills for now, take opportunities to get out of the IT silo on a project basis, and take your # 1 point of advice. Then we’ll see where it goes!

Thank you so much for sharing!

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Glad you are enjoying the thread! Yes, definitely not something a guidance counselor could prepare you for lol! I had no idea this world existed, or at least to what extent it exists. Whenever someone asks what I do for a living, I just say “IT” because I know they won’t understand :laughing:

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Ha how many of us here remotely work from Colorado (Woodland Park) ?
So I have been involved with ERP implementation for over 20 years and over a decade of that working directly with and for Epicor Software Corporation.
As a long term employee of Epicor software I really liked the training tracts that they put together through Epicor University. You basically had three paths; Finance, Operations/Production (Including Distribution), and what they called “Tools” which was somewhat the IT Admin and client side developer role path. I was one of the rare Consultants that did all three paths and specialized in the tools/development side and the Operations side. As I knew the operations side of Epicor in-depth, it also gave me greater insight into manipulating the software through customization and understanding in how those customization would impact other areas in the software.
Here is what I did in addition to learning the Epicor tools and software operations. I went to my local community college on nights and weekends and got several certifications over the years. I first got my IT Project Management cert from Comptia. Then SQL DataWarehousing, SQL Business Intelligence BIDS developer which taught me how to write SSRS reports like a champ. I took a progress ABL class in the early days of Epicor 9 and just before Epicor10 came out I took several C# Classes. I also added the Epicor Product Configurator to my skillset as well as Epicor Data Analytics and EDD, Epicor Service Connect which I eventually replaced with learning Epicor APIs. I have recently began taking Cyber Security certificate classes as well as I see Epicor pushing customers towards cloud environments ran on browser based applications that have need for understanding of SSL and certificates, and URL security.
All of these elements I look at as stepping stones that enhance my skillset and value in the ERP market place. However I see so much of the IT world (including Epicor) moving towards simplifying the coding and customization process by eliminating coding knowledge through the use of drop and drag widgets or smart strings that contain pre-coded snippets you just put in place. The Epicor BPM designer is adding more and more drop and drag functions all the time. I would still encourage anyone wanting to be in this business to learn SQL and C# (or at least some sort of coding language) because even though I find the tools now require less and less of me knowing programming, the knowledge of the underlying logic and how it works I feel has really boosted my ability to resolve ERP tough challenges with innovative ideas.

Jason

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Jacquelyn,
I got started with Epicor ERP in 2007 while working for a company that was implementing Vantage 8.03. At the time I as 3/4 finished with my IS Bachelors Degree but I was not actively pursuing it at the time as more urgent priorities had come up. I was working as the company’s QA Department, so it was my job to implement Epicor’s QA Module. That was tricky because at the time the documentation and guidance was really rough. Before Epicor I had created an Access DB to manage the Nonconformances and DMR’s since their current ‘ERP’ didn’t support any QA. I had to figure out with trial and error how Epicor worked since my Access DB didn’t really flow the same and NC & DMR’s were just kinda smashed into one thing. Worked it out and provided the data for migration and went live. I didn’t really have any issues with my module but others did and since I was in the production office I ended up working out how Inventory, Jobs and scheduling all worked and became the unofficial Epicor Support Guy for the supervisors. Unfortunately, the designated Power Users didn’t have a good understanding how things worked. My involvement got to IT and the CFO and since the other Departments were struggling they needed another Epicor Support Analyst, so I was moved to IT and they got me the rest of my way to my degree. We slowly got things worked out. I implemented other modules that were skipped, implemented Epicor for another sister company in 3 months and then less than a year later moved and reorganized that warehouse to another state and assisted with upgrading to 9.04. In 2011, an opportunity I couldn’t pass up came along to Lead another company in implementing Epicor 905. A few years later we upgraded to 10.0 and a few years after that, due to an acquisition they decided to move to another ERP system. At that point I moved into consulting as it was a good transition plan since the company still needed my services for about 18 months. That gave me time to pick up a few other clients.

Through all of this what seemed to help the most was understanding how Epicor ‘rhymes.’ Epicor has pretty consistently employed the same design and process flows and data structures. I also learned through trial and error a few principles I now use when working with clients:

  1. First, understand how Epicor is intended to work and flow. Throw out any assumptions or expectations and figure out how it’s designed to work. Sometimes how it’s designed to work isn’t even documented nor supported by the documentation.
  2. Second, understand how the business works and answer all the whys. Many times business processes evolve in response to barriers and problems and the solutions are not well planned out.
  3. Third, try to align the software and the business process, preferring the way Epicor is designed. Often times its easier to change the business and user habits than to convince Epicor Dev to change something for one customer.
  4. If a system change is needed pursue it in this order:
    1. Method Directives
    2. Data Directives
    3. Customization
    4. Custom Code/Third Party Solution
  5. When working with the Development Tools in Epicor be sure you are aware of all the options.
  6. With all the Development Tools above, I will only use custom code as a last resort. The reason for this is because of my experience with upgrading many clients. Almost 99% of the time the biggest challenge is fixing custom code. I learned back in my web dev days that using static instead of dynamic data ensures obsolescence and headaches. Custom Code, be in an a BPM, customization or a report is static data and eventually something will change that will cause it to fail. Using the built in BPM widgets and wizards are essentially dynamic components in Epicor and the migration scripts can usually upgrade these without any issues, adjusting for schema and other changes.

My point here is that knowing how to write custom code is not as helpful as knowing how to write a scalable solution.
I had a mentor in College that really encouraged me to look for the ‘Elegant Solution.’
The Elegant solution is not the most complicated or simplest, it’s the one that strikes the best balance between scalability, automation, and low user friction. The elegant solution will usually provide the most and longest term value to the end users.
Also be very aware of, remove and defend against Technical Debt.
If you are not familiar with Technical Debt, or think you are, give it’s Wikipedia article a read:

Usually the ‘Elegant Solution’ will have little or no Technical Debt. Technical Debt usually happens in urgent situations where the easiest and dirtiest solution is deployed. Sometimes this is not avoidable, but often times just a bit more thought will get you to an ‘Elegant Solution.’ The most common technical debt I’ve seen comes in the form of Custom Code in Epicor, among others. Usually the Elegant Solution will not be the first solution. So before you start working on a solution ask yourself what the Technical Debit is of your solution.
Whenever you are trying to accomplish something in Epicor or build a solution, always get input and opinions. This forum is great for that. But back when I was an employee, I had several Epicor Consultants I would pay a few hours of their time just to brainstorm and double check our processes, solutions, or proposed solutions. I would rather pay for solution design than for a developer to write code for me. On that point, I just realized that about half the time I contracted for a developer\code writer I ended up with problems in some form.
So aside from this brain dump of my career path, here are some answers to your questions:

  • Languages to learn - While probably not necessary, for reasons above, for Epicor you would want to learn C# (current versions) & Typescript (for future versions). SQL is good for troubleshooting, but I would not build any part of an Epicor solution in SQL, work with the Dev Tools provided as much as possible. Also, knowing the language that a system uses is only half the battle, the other half is understanding it’s object model, which can be maddening.
  • Certificates to obtain - I am not aware of any Epicor specific Certifications. But if you are currently working for an Epicor Customer or Certified Partner, go through all the train courses you can in every part of the system, quote to cash. You may also consider starting with the Development Tools. I’ve heard Epicor may have a Certificate Program someday. Other than that, a Project Management Professional Certification demonstrates not only your education but your Project Management experience. I have found making it a habit of attending Insights at least every other year is helpful in understanding what is coming up next and getting the ear of Epicor Program Managers.
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@jnbadger Jacquelyn,
I don’t have much to add here with all the feedback that has been provided already, but wanted to say thanks for starting such an awesome thread. The feedback has been fantastic - thanks to all who have taken the time to write some detailed posts! I am in the IT & ERP Manager role (not technical on the ERP side), but I will be passing this thread along to my ERP Technical Analyst.
Good Luck!

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That entire quote is my Epicor story exactly. QA, Access, all of it. That’s eerie.

Except that I had to head the go-live and I didn’t know a thing about Epicor. That was…exciting.

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I’m glad to see that you are interested in growing your skills Jacquelyn! This group is a great resource for me and I’m loving reading the recommendations here.

I started off in manufacturing almost 25 years ago. I’ve worked in every department from logistics to technology management after starting out on the shop floor. I learned sales, accounting, data analysis, operations, lean production practices, inventory control, forecasting, material optimization, pricing, commissions and project management. Those that are telling you to focus on business practices are giving valuable advice. I’m not a skilled programmer - I can hold my own but I don’t consider myself a programmer. I didn’t finish college. I learned customizations, BPM’s, how to build a configurator and how to influence business process by working alongside some great consultants, getting my hands on every piece of information I could find on the system I was working on and attending every business process and management training that my company offers.

At my first “real” job, I was an assistant to the Sales Director. I developed an Access database to manage our sales data that, up until that point, was being done monthly with green bar reports, a calculator and a pad of paper. They were thrilled to have data “automation” and that led to us purchasing our first ERP. I was the project lead on that implementation and learned how to code a configurator along side a seasoned pro. It was a German system but the logic was the same. If you can define a rule for the business process, you can make it work. If you can’t define the rule, then there has to be discussion about what the rule should be, ie. “If the material is plywood and the sky is purple and it is raining on Tuesday, the price is $5”. I started as an Epicor admin over 12 years ago and have implemented and supported it for 3 companies. I attend Insights, read these forums, attend any lunch and learns and user group meetings I can find and, most importantly, learn by asking questions and then doing.

As for learning code, I tell people all the time that my 7-year-old niece can code. Coding is a valuable tool to put in your toolbox but many people can code now. Fewer people can code and understand the business processes they are trying to optimize and implement. Fewer people still have the communication skills to work along side the shop floor associates and the management team and speak their language in order to help facilitate growth and change. I’m not taking anything away from coders as I admire their skills and am always trying to get better myself, but the most valuable advice I can give you has been stated by others on this thread. Learn the business, learn the people, learn how to bring efficiency to your organization and you will go far.

Like you, I also have interest in AI and learning more about REST. I’m learning PowerBI right now and have integrated that with Epicor. Always keep learning and keep up with new technology that can bring efficiency to business processes and you will have a fantastic career in ERP Development and Admin. Best of Luck to you!!

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Hi Jacquelyn
Great to see you reaching out for advice on this.
As a veteran pseudo developer I was in your position many years ago. As a qualified Mech Eng who started using CAD/CAM in the late 80’s and wanted to learn to write scripts to speed things up you can imagine there were little resources available, especially for a closed community such as an individual CAD product. Much the same as you’re looking at now with a narrow focus of Epicor. Developed through MS Access VBA/SQL to Visual Basic to VB.Net to C#.Net, I would never class myself as a developer but I can write in a few languages (more hack, slash and plagiarize than write). I now run our ERP team and have 3 qualified and one junior dev working for me.
Things I am looking for in devs are core skills in C# , SQL and Web Dev. With the rise of OData API for Epicor and the move to Kinetic UI, knowledge of Node, Javascript and REST is going to be a massive advantage and enable leverage to Tech outside of windows. Platforms such as React, React Native and Flutter are easily within reach to develop Web and Native Mobile UI’s that interface to Epicor.

I agree with another commentator on this thread, pick a project and work towards that. You may have to devote some personal time to research and learning but its well worth it.

I wish you all the luck on your journey, this community is a fantastic and helpful resource with some great mentors who help a lot
Let me Know if I can be of any more assistance

Cheers
Greg

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Hi Jacquelyn @jnbadger,
You sound a lot like my younger self and I admire your willingness to ask questions and seek advice. This thread already contains lots of good technical advice and career advice (I think the best is from @Mark_Wonsil), so I won’t repeat what others have shared. My specific advice:

  • Think big picture.
  • Don’t sell yourself short (my first significant role was for a small manufacturer in the late '80s; I was hired to write reports on an accounting system by I guy who thought all the company’s needs would be met after 6 months. I stayed 6+ years and ended up writing a small, custom ERP system–a tremendous learning experience)
  • Don’t give up. My weirdest programming experience was for a device driver I had to write in a language called Business BASIC. The computer had no other language options like C/C++, leaving me the choices of “failure”–boss didn’t like that–or muddle through. But the device this programming project made available proved its weight in gold for the company.
  • Do consider things that can go wrong, and proactively try to address them. My specific examples are security (you’d be surprised how many companies don’t disable user accounts after firing employees) and disaster recovery (why should I care about a backup when I have redundant disks or data stored in the cloud?).

My undergraduate degree was in German, but a can-do attitude has gotten me fairly far in technology. My career not only pays the bills, bu I find the outcomes rewarding.

Guten Tag!
Paul

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Bought & read “The Phoenix Project” last night, @Mark_Wonsil, what a great recommendation. Even though I wear the hats of about 16 of the characters an we’re a very small fraction of the company portrayed, there’s an enormous level of inspiration and actionable ideas in there. Much obliged.

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If you liked it you should also read “The Unicorn Project” by the same author. It is a sequel to the Phoenix and in the same setting.

Vinay Kamboj

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