EUG - A galaxy far, far away

OH definately Stargate Atlantis. As far as Trek goes I've personally
met James Doohan, Walter Koenig, Mirina Sirtis, Eathan Philips and
Robert Picardo. So.... YEAH....TREK!!!

Shirley


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Robert T. Bruton" <bob@e...> wrote:
> Oh Shirley,
>
> I'll follow you anywhere when you talk Trek. And then you throw in
SW
> and Stargate. Or were you referring to the Pa-Wraiths from DS9?
>
> Bob
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Shirley Graver
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:04 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: EUG - A galaxy far, far away
>
>
> Jeeeezz. I didn't know the BORG were in on this too. I thought
it
> was just the DARK SIDE. Jean Luke where are you when we need you?
> Who's next? The Wraith!
>
> >"Is Rick or Bill Borg still part of Epicor? "
>
> Shirley
>
> Tracking #: 6E62E05132D20547AC3353850E9BDECF473D87E4
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Manufacturing software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufactu
>
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+sof
tw
>
are&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online
+d
> atabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ>
> Membership database software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Man
>
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortga
ge
>
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=
On
> line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piLZhrmuaS0aRTs5A>
Database
> mortgage software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manuf
>
acturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+s
>
oftware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=On
li
> ne+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw>
> Pda database software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufactur
>
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+soft
wa
>
re&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+
da
> tabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ>
Database
> management software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Man
>
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortga
ge
>
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=
On
> line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw>
Online
> database software
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufac
>
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+s
of
>
tware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Onli
ne
> +database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA>
>
> ________________________________
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "vantage
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it seems to
me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite a few
years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of the
Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual user
gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when Vantage
joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante, Manfact,
infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the conference
that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became Epicor,
the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a bit
each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the conference
(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that have value
to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look any
further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually they would
fade away.

Guess not.

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Count me in with this group.

Thomas Wojewoda


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Kula
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ

I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!

_____

From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Shirley,

I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
gain
more control over their users. Independence all the way.


Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Shirley Graver
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
To: Darren Mann
Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ

Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
have
kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make this
perfectly clear:

TO THE EUG

How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I went
to
your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't have
the
courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
Being
one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their services
on
this list.

The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban your
account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
unhappy
with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
button.

Shirley Graver
Moderator





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Most
low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide
today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/PhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
I think you're not too far off Lydia. I played in the inaugural user
golf game as a Vantage user back in 1987 with Rick Borg and his Dad
Duane in Minneapolis. I think the User Conference was still put on by
DCD people at that time.

Just to clarify, there was no real "say" from the Vantage Users. The
actual feedback was when 50 of us were in the same room as DCD
management and we would speak into a microphone held by Phil Moen (I
think that was his last name) and give ideas of what we wanted. As the
only Canadian Customer at the time, I asked for a Foreign Currency
Module Bill and Rick Borg would field most of the questions as they
were the brains behind the product at the time. Not nearly as
sophisticated as this Yahoo Group process is. This is a seriously large
microphone in my opinion, with questions that truly offer opportunities
for improvement, clarification and direction.

All of us are faced with customers who want it CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER.
The only way to make it BETTER is to listen to your Customer base and
recognize what they want and need. I think you pretty much find that in
here. Sanctioned or not!

My Canadian 2 cents, (which is almost 1.75U.S. cents today.....)

Bob Goss
BC Intsruments

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Lydia Coffman
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away

Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it seems
to
me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite a
few
years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of the
Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual user
gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when
Vantage
joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante,
Manfact,
infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the
conference
that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became
Epicor,
the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a
bit
each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the
conference
(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that have
value
to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look any
further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually they
would
fade away.

Guess not.

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Count me in with this group.

Thomas Wojewoda


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Kula
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ

I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!

_____

From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Shirley,

I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
gain
more control over their users. Independence all the way.


Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Shirley Graver
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
To: Darren Mann
Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ

Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
have
kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make this
perfectly clear:

TO THE EUG

How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I went
to
your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't have
the
courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
Being
one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their services
on
this list.

The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban your
account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
unhappy
with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
button.

Shirley Graver
Moderator





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Most
low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide
today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/PhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links







Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob and Lydia...I think you are getting real close to the heart of the issues. I inherited a DCD-Classic site at the tail end of the DCD days just prior to Dataworks. My first IUG confernece was 1988 and I was far too green about the "ownership" structure and history to know the "key players". But as things have evolved I sense that a lot of the issue we as the Vantage user community see are related to the acquisition-merger issues that have made Epicor and the adding on of other totally different user bases. Vantage has always been the "cash cow" product for Epicor and because it arrived with a strong group of users (including this board in its earlier OneList incarnation). If I am not mistaken Rich Dumelle (when he was a "user", now an Epicor CAM I think) was one of the originators of this email group. This in effect pre-organized the Vantage base very early on as a sort of open blog or open-source sharing environment that has been hugely successful and extremely helpful.

On the flip side Dataworks-Platinum-Epicor has acquired so many other products, which all need representation and user interaction that an Epicor wide user group was formed. There has always been a little head butting between Epicor's largest product base (Vantage) anf the "other" product users. When it comes right down to it we are all competing for the same pot of R&D dollars for enhancements and Epicor is a business with shareholders who expect it to grow. Whenever Epicor decides development dollars spent on another product offer a higher potential for return (increased saleability, etc...) we as Vantage users lose options unless we can convince Epicor our needs have growth value.

This all reminds me (the long, long ago part of a galaxy far away) of the Digital Equipment Corp. User Society or DECUS of the late '70's and '80's. DECUS was equivalent to the what EUG is heading to become but DECUS had some important differences. Different product lines were organized about very strong SIG (special interest group) sub-organizations. As I see it now EUG's sub-product organization level is not nearly strong enough to represent the Vantage users. One of DECUS's largest SIGs was the VAX/VMS operating system group (VMS was a non-GUI predecessor to Windows-NT). One of the key factors though with DEC was that development efforts had at least a small link to the size of the SIGs and the overall DECUS structure supported this. Which finally brings me to my point....EUG does not appear to have a formal structure or "charter" and constitution that can handle as large a "SIG" as the Vantage users. If they can offer "more" than we have now I think EUG will be ready for primetime. In the mean time organizing such a "charter" and structure will make the Iraqi Constitution efforts look easy. I have tried without success to dig up a copy of the DECUS constitution or charter. DECUS was absorbed into HP's Encompas group and all links to the old organization have been cut. Some possible useful Encompas charter info is at: http://www.encompassus.org/about/stratplan.html#mission but this does not directly address the disparite needs of seperate product groups. If there are any other old-timers out there with DECUS info please post (or contact me off list). I would very much like to see how DECUS handled the seperate SIG issues with respect to feedbacl or enhancement requests made to DEC.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bob Goss
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away


I think you're not too far off Lydia. I played in the inaugural user
golf game as a Vantage user back in 1987 with Rick Borg and his Dad
Duane in Minneapolis. I think the User Conference was still put on by
DCD people at that time.

Just to clarify, there was no real "say" from the Vantage Users. The
actual feedback was when 50 of us were in the same room as DCD
management and we would speak into a microphone held by Phil Moen (I
think that was his last name) and give ideas of what we wanted. As the
only Canadian Customer at the time, I asked for a Foreign Currency
Module Bill and Rick Borg would field most of the questions as they
were the brains behind the product at the time. Not nearly as
sophisticated as this Yahoo Group process is. This is a seriously large
microphone in my opinion, with questions that truly offer opportunities
for improvement, clarification and direction.

All of us are faced with customers who want it CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER.
The only way to make it BETTER is to listen to your Customer base and
recognize what they want and need. I think you pretty much find that in
here. Sanctioned or not!

My Canadian 2 cents, (which is almost 1.75U.S. cents today.....)

Bob Goss
BC Intsruments

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Lydia Coffman
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away

Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it seems
to
me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite a
few
years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of the
Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual user
gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when
Vantage
joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante,
Manfact,
infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the
conference
that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became
Epicor,
the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a
bit
each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the
conference
(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that have
value
to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look any
further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually they
would
fade away.

Guess not.

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Count me in with this group.

Thomas Wojewoda


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Kula
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ

I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!

_____

From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
PLEASE READ


Shirley,

I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
gain
more control over their users. Independence all the way.


Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Shirley Graver
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
To: Darren Mann
Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ

Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
have
kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make this
perfectly clear:

TO THE EUG

How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I went
to
your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't have
the
courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
Being
one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their services
on
this list.

The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban your
account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
unhappy
with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
button.

Shirley Graver
Moderator





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Most
low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide
today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/PhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links







Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Manufacturing <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ> software Membership <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piLZhrmuaS0aRTs5A> database software Database <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw> mortgage software
Pda <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ> database software Database <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw> management software Online <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA> database software

_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group " vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought this entire mess was somehow caused by Rich.

Patrick Winter

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
todd Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:32 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away

Todd,

FYI - Mike England was user # 1 and the original moderator

Rich was too busy smoking cigarettes out by the curb ...

Todd Anderson

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Todd Caughey
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away


Bob and Lydia...I think you are getting real close to the heart of the
issues. I inherited a DCD-Classic site at the tail end of the DCD days just
prior to Dataworks. My first IUG confernece was 1988 and I was far too
green about the "ownership" structure and history to know the "key players".
But as things have evolved I sense that a lot of the issue we as the Vantage
user community see are related to the acquisition-merger issues that have
made Epicor and the adding on of other totally different user bases.
Vantage has always been the "cash cow" product for Epicor and because it
arrived with a strong group of users (including this board in its earlier
OneList incarnation). If I am not mistaken Rich Dumelle (when he was a
"user", now an Epicor CAM I think) was one of the originators of this email
group. This in effect pre-organized the Vantage base very early on as a
sort of open blog or open-source sharing environment that has been hugely
successful and extremely helpful.

On the flip side Dataworks-Platinum-Epicor has acquired so many other
products, which all need representation and user interaction that an Epicor
wide user group was formed. There has always been a little head butting
between Epicor's largest product base (Vantage) anf the "other" product
users. When it comes right down to it we are all competing for the same pot
of R&D dollars for enhancements and Epicor is a business with shareholders
who expect it to grow. Whenever Epicor decides development dollars spent on
another product offer a higher potential for return (increased saleability,
etc...) we as Vantage users lose options unless we can convince Epicor our
needs have growth value.

This all reminds me (the long, long ago part of a galaxy far away) of the
Digital Equipment Corp. User Society or DECUS of the late '70's and '80's.
DECUS was equivalent to the what EUG is heading to become but DECUS had some
important differences. Different product lines were organized about very
strong SIG (special interest group) sub-organizations. As I see it now
EUG's sub-product organization level is not nearly strong enough to
represent the Vantage users. One of DECUS's largest SIGs was the VAX/VMS
operating system group (VMS was a non-GUI predecessor to Windows-NT). One
of the key factors though with DEC was that development efforts had at least
a small link to the size of the SIGs and the overall DECUS structure
supported this. Which finally brings me to my point....EUG does not appear
to have a formal structure or "charter" and constitution that can handle as
large a "SIG" as the Vantage users. If they can offer "more" than we have
now I think EUG will be ready for primetime. In the mean time organizing
such a "charter" and structure will make the Iraqi Constitution efforts look
easy. I have tried without success to dig up a copy of the DECUS
constitution or charter. DECUS was absorbed into HP's Encompas group and
all links to the old organization have been cut. Some possible useful
Encompas charter info is at:
http://www.encompassus.org/about/stratplan.html#mission but this does not
directly address the disparite needs of seperate product groups. If there
are any other old-timers out there with DECUS info please post (or contact
me off list). I would very much like to see how DECUS handled the seperate
SIG issues with respect to feedbacl or enhancement requests made to DEC.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bob Goss
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away


I think you're not too far off Lydia. I played in the inaugural user golf
game as a Vantage user back in 1987 with Rick Borg and his Dad Duane in
Minneapolis. I think the User Conference was still put on by DCD people at
that time.

Just to clarify, there was no real "say" from the Vantage Users. The actual
feedback was when 50 of us were in the same room as DCD management and we
would speak into a microphone held by Phil Moen (I think that was his last
name) and give ideas of what we wanted. As the only Canadian Customer at the
time, I asked for a Foreign Currency Module Bill and Rick Borg would field
most of the questions as they were the brains behind the product at the
time. Not nearly as sophisticated as this Yahoo Group process is. This is a
seriously large microphone in my opinion, with questions that truly offer
opportunities for improvement, clarification and direction.

All of us are faced with customers who want it CHEAPER, BETTER, FASTER.
The only way to make it BETTER is to listen to your Customer base and
recognize what they want and need. I think you pretty much find that in
here. Sanctioned or not!

My Canadian 2 cents, (which is almost 1.75U.S. cents today.....)

Bob Goss
BC Intsruments

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Lydia Coffman
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:13 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away

Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it seems to
me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite a few
years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of the
Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual user
gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when Vantage
joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante, Manfact,
infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the conference
that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became Epicor,
the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a bit
each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the conference
(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that have value
to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look any
further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually they would
fade away.

Guess not.

Lydia


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ


Count me in with this group.

Thomas Wojewoda


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Robert Kula
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ

I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!

_____

From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ


Shirley,

I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
gain
more control over their users. Independence all the way.


Darren Mann
IT Manager
Miller Products Co.
1015 N. Main St.
Osceola, IA 50213
Ph. 641-342-2103
Fax 641-342-3222

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Shirley Graver
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
To: Darren Mann
Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS PLEASE
READ

Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
have
kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make this
perfectly clear:

TO THE EUG

How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I went
to
your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't have
the
courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
Being
one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their services
on
this list.

The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban your
account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
unhappy
with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
button.

Shirley Graver
Moderator





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Most
low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide
today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/PhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links








********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this
transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material
in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links







Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Manufacturing <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing
+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=P
da+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+soft
ware&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ>
&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+s
oftware&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+m
anagement+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZU
YeLzjLVQ> software Membership <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+databas
e+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piLZhrmuaS0aRTs5A>
&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+data
base+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Data
base+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piL
ZhrmuaS0aRTs5A> database software Database
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&
w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+
software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw>
&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+databa
se+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Databa
se+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfaw
a-Spj4srksIw> mortgage software
Pda <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+
software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pd
a+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+softw
are&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ>
&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+so
ftware&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+ma
nagement+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlS
ALplOdQ> database software Database
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwar
e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+databas
e+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw>
&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+data
base+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Data
base+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1Sn
mwAiBO61ww9nTw> management software Online
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufacturi
ng+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4
=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+so
ftware&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA>
&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database
+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database
+management+software&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF
7BBMh8EfUA> database software

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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da+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+database+soft
ware&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ> software Membership
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are&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ> database software Database
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e&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+databas
e+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw> management software
Online
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ftware&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA> database software

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
This is a very very interesting and valuable thread. So interesting I'm
going to collect these naratives to create a historical view for new users.
What better way to make a new member welcome than to let them know they are
joining a group with a history. Keep it coming folks.

Shirley Graver



Tracking #: 07352356FFC71548B05D51B4D133AAADE7F7CDC9


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"...Epicor's largest product base (Vantage)..."

Sorry but not even close. Vista alone has 3x the user base of
Vantage and Scala is in the 10's of thousands. Vantage is certainly
the darling of sales and the direction for the future but it is far
from the largest product base.

Michael

---- Original Message ----
From: caugheyt@...
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:49:54 -0500

>Bob and Lydia...I think you are getting real close to the heart of
>the issues. I inherited a DCD-Classic site at the tail end of the
>DCD days just prior to Dataworks. My first IUG confernece was 1988
>and I was far too green about the "ownership" structure and history
>to know the "key players". But as things have evolved I sense that a
>lot of the issue we as the Vantage user community see are related to
>the acquisition-merger issues that have made Epicor and the adding on
>of other totally different user bases. Vantage has always been the
>"cash cow" product for Epicor and because it arrived with a strong
>group of users (including this board in its earlier OneList
>incarnation). If I am not mistaken Rich Dumelle (when he was a
>"user", now an Epicor CAM I think) was one of the originators of this
>email group. This in effect pre-organized the Vantage base very
>early on as a sort of open blog or open-source sharing environment
>that has been hugely successful and extremely help
> ful.
>
>On the flip side Dataworks-Platinum-Epicor has acquired so many other
>products, which all need representation and user interaction that an
>Epicor wide user group was formed. There has always been a little
>head butting between Epicor's largest product base (Vantage) anf the
>"other" product users. When it comes right down to it we are all
>competing for the same pot of R&D dollars for enhancements and Epicor
>is a business with shareholders who expect it to grow. Whenever
>Epicor decides development dollars spent on another product offer a
>higher potential for return (increased saleability, etc...) we as
>Vantage users lose options unless we can convince Epicor our needs
>have growth value.
>
>This all reminds me (the long, long ago part of a galaxy far away) of
>the Digital Equipment Corp. User Society or DECUS of the late '70's
>and '80's. DECUS was equivalent to the what EUG is heading to become
>but DECUS had some important differences. Different product lines
>were organized about very strong SIG (special interest group)
>sub-organizations. As I see it now EUG's sub-product organization
>level is not nearly strong enough to represent the Vantage users.
>One of DECUS's largest SIGs was the VAX/VMS operating system group
>(VMS was a non-GUI predecessor to Windows-NT). One of the key
>factors though with DEC was that development efforts had at least a
>small link to the size of the SIGs and the overall DECUS structure
>supported this. Which finally brings me to my point....EUG does not
>appear to have a formal structure or "charter" and constitution that
>can handle as large a "SIG" as the Vantage users. If they can offer
>"more" than we have now I think EUG will be rea
> dy for primetime. In the mean time organizing such a "charter" and
>structure will make the Iraqi Constitution efforts look easy. I have
>tried without success to dig up a copy of the DECUS constitution or
>charter. DECUS was absorbed into HP's Encompas group and all links
>to the old organization have been cut. Some possible useful Encompas
>charter info is at:
>http://www.encompassus.org/about/stratplan.html#mission but this does
>not directly address the disparite needs of seperate product groups.
>If there are any other old-timers out there with DECUS info please
>post (or contact me off list). I would very much like to see how
>DECUS handled the seperate SIG issues with respect to feedbacl or
>enhancement requests made to DEC.
>
>-Todd C.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
>Behalf Of Bob Goss
>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:34 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
>
>
>I think you're not too far off Lydia. I played in the inaugural user
>golf game as a Vantage user back in 1987 with Rick Borg and his Dad
>Duane in Minneapolis. I think the User Conference was still put on
>by
>DCD people at that time.
>
>Just to clarify, there was no real "say" from the Vantage Users. The
>actual feedback was when 50 of us were in the same room as DCD
>management and we would speak into a microphone held by Phil Moen (I
>think that was his last name) and give ideas of what we wanted. As
>the
>only Canadian Customer at the time, I asked for a Foreign Currency
>Module Bill and Rick Borg would field most of the questions as they
>were the brains behind the product at the time. Not nearly as
>sophisticated as this Yahoo Group process is. This is a seriously
>large
>microphone in my opinion, with questions that truly offer
>opportunities
>for improvement, clarification and direction.
>
>All of us are faced with customers who want it CHEAPER, BETTER,
>FASTER.
>The only way to make it BETTER is to listen to your Customer base and
>recognize what they want and need. I think you pretty much find that
>in
>here. Sanctioned or not!
>
>My Canadian 2 cents, (which is almost 1.75U.S. cents today.....)
>
>Bob Goss
>BC Intsruments
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of Lydia Coffman
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:13 PM
>To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
>
>Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it
>seems
>to
>me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite
>a
>few
>years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of
>the
>Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual
>user
>gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when
>Vantage
>joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante,
>Manfact,
>infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the
>conference
>that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became
>Epicor,
>the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a
>bit
>each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the
>conference
>(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
>rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that
>have
>value
>to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look
>any
>further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually
>they
>would
>fade away.
>
>Guess not.
>
>Lydia
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>
>Count me in with this group.
>
>Thomas Wojewoda
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of Robert Kula
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!
>
> _____
>
>From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>
>Shirley,
>
>I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
>gain
>more control over their users. Independence all the way.
>
>
>Darren Mann
>IT Manager
>Miller Products Co.
>1015 N. Main St.
>Osceola, IA 50213
>Ph. 641-342-2103
>Fax 641-342-3222
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of
>Shirley Graver
>Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
>To: Darren Mann
>Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE
>READ
>
>Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
>have
>kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make
>this
>perfectly clear:
>
>TO THE EUG
>
>How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I
>went
>to
>your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't
>have
>the
>courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
>Being
>one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
>response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their
>services
>on
>this list.
>
>The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban
>your
>account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
>unhappy
>with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
>button.
>
>Shirley Graver
>Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
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>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must
>have
>already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and
>Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must
>have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
>* Visit your group "vantage
>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.
>
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>Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must
>have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>********************
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>in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the
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>
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>
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must
>have
>already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and
>Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must
>have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>* Visit your group "vantage
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>of
>Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>________________________________
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
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><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Ma
>nufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mort
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>e&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw>
>mortgage software
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>Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ>
>database software Database
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=
>Manufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mo
>rtgage+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+softw
>are&w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw
>> management software Online
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manu
>facturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortga
>ge+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&
>w6=Online+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA>
>database software
>
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>
>* Visit your group " vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage>
>" on the web.
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>->
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sorry, former largest customer base...but I sort of lump Vista together in my mind with Vantage as Vantage-Lite and Vantage anyway. Scala is the new kid on the block (acquired in June 2004) - one more acquisition distraction. It has its own user group structure in Europe doesn't it? Not withstanding canceling this year's Scala conference Europe due to terrorist fears and merging their meeting with Perspectives. Are they part of the larger EUG discussion or are they seperate (mostly due to geography)? Also, due to size coming into the Epicor fold, do they have a strong user group of their own already?
-Todd C.



-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michael Barry
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:42 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away


"...Epicor's largest product base (Vantage)..."

Sorry but not even close. Vista alone has 3x the user base of
Vantage and Scala is in the 10's of thousands. Vantage is certainly
the darling of sales and the direction for the future but it is far
from the largest product base.

Michael

---- Original Message ----
From: caugheyt@...
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:49:54 -0500

>Bob and Lydia...I think you are getting real close to the heart of
>the issues. I inherited a DCD-Classic site at the tail end of the
>DCD days just prior to Dataworks. My first IUG confernece was 1988
>and I was far too green about the "ownership" structure and history
>to know the "key players". But as things have evolved I sense that a
>lot of the issue we as the Vantage user community see are related to
>the acquisition-merger issues that have made Epicor and the adding on
>of other totally different user bases. Vantage has always been the
>"cash cow" product for Epicor and because it arrived with a strong
>group of users (including this board in its earlier OneList
>incarnation). If I am not mistaken Rich Dumelle (when he was a
>"user", now an Epicor CAM I think) was one of the originators of this
>email group. This in effect pre-organized the Vantage base very
>early on as a sort of open blog or open-source sharing environment
>that has been hugely successful and extremely help
> ful.
>
>On the flip side Dataworks-Platinum-Epicor has acquired so many other
>products, which all need representation and user interaction that an
>Epicor wide user group was formed. There has always been a little
>head butting between Epicor's largest product base (Vantage) anf the
>"other" product users. When it comes right down to it we are all
>competing for the same pot of R&D dollars for enhancements and Epicor
>is a business with shareholders who expect it to grow. Whenever
>Epicor decides development dollars spent on another product offer a
>higher potential for return (increased saleability, etc...) we as
>Vantage users lose options unless we can convince Epicor our needs
>have growth value.
>
>This all reminds me (the long, long ago part of a galaxy far away) of
>the Digital Equipment Corp. User Society or DECUS of the late '70's
>and '80's. DECUS was equivalent to the what EUG is heading to become
>but DECUS had some important differences. Different product lines
>were organized about very strong SIG (special interest group)
>sub-organizations. As I see it now EUG's sub-product organization
>level is not nearly strong enough to represent the Vantage users.
>One of DECUS's largest SIGs was the VAX/VMS operating system group
>(VMS was a non-GUI predecessor to Windows-NT). One of the key
>factors though with DEC was that development efforts had at least a
>small link to the size of the SIGs and the overall DECUS structure
>supported this. Which finally brings me to my point....EUG does not
>appear to have a formal structure or "charter" and constitution that
>can handle as large a "SIG" as the Vantage users. If they can offer
>"more" than we have now I think EUG will be rea
> dy for primetime. In the mean time organizing such a "charter" and
>structure will make the Iraqi Constitution efforts look easy. I have
>tried without success to dig up a copy of the DECUS constitution or
>charter. DECUS was absorbed into HP's Encompas group and all links
>to the old organization have been cut. Some possible useful Encompas
>charter info is at:
> http://www.encompassus.org/about/stratplan.html#mission but this does
>not directly address the disparite needs of seperate product groups.
>If there are any other old-timers out there with DECUS info please
>post (or contact me off list). I would very much like to see how
>DECUS handled the seperate SIG issues with respect to feedbacl or
>enhancement requests made to DEC.
>
>-Todd C.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
>Behalf Of Bob Goss
>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:34 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
>
>
>I think you're not too far off Lydia. I played in the inaugural user
>golf game as a Vantage user back in 1987 with Rick Borg and his Dad
>Duane in Minneapolis. I think the User Conference was still put on
>by
>DCD people at that time.
>
>Just to clarify, there was no real "say" from the Vantage Users. The
>actual feedback was when 50 of us were in the same room as DCD
>management and we would speak into a microphone held by Phil Moen (I
>think that was his last name) and give ideas of what we wanted. As
>the
>only Canadian Customer at the time, I asked for a Foreign Currency
>Module Bill and Rick Borg would field most of the questions as they
>were the brains behind the product at the time. Not nearly as
>sophisticated as this Yahoo Group process is. This is a seriously
>large
>microphone in my opinion, with questions that truly offer
>opportunities
>for improvement, clarification and direction.
>
>All of us are faced with customers who want it CHEAPER, BETTER,
>FASTER.
>The only way to make it BETTER is to listen to your Customer base and
>recognize what they want and need. I think you pretty much find that
>in
>here. Sanctioned or not!
>
>My Canadian 2 cents, (which is almost 1.75U.S. cents today.....)
>
>Bob Goss
>BC Intsruments
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of Lydia Coffman
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:13 PM
>To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] EUG - A galaxy far, far away
>
>Now, I may be complete WRONG (wouldn't be the first time), but it
>seems
>to
>me that the EUG was born from the old Dataworks user group from quite
>a
>few
>years ago...when dataworks first bought DCD (the REAL originators of
>the
>Vantage product)there was a user group that actually ran the annual
>user
>gathering. They were appalled at all of the "cowboys" they got when
>Vantage
>joined their more corporate and established group (this was Avante,
>Manfact,
>infofact all that bunch). We were seriously overlooked at the
>conference
>that year and YELLED TO HIGH HEAVEN. Then, once the company became
>Epicor,
>the "USER GROUP" influence at the annual conference was dialed back a
>bit
>each year, and the Epicor corporate folks took over running the
>conference
>(name changed to Perspectives). Each year, there is less corporate
>rah-rah-rah and more lab offerings, and other group sessions that
>have
>value
>to all 1100+ of us...this is one reason I've never bothered to look
>any
>further into joining the EUG. I honestly thought that eventually
>they
>would
>fade away.
>
>Guess not.
>
>Lydia
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas Wojewoda [mailto:twojewoda@...]
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:40 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>
>Count me in with this group.
>
>Thomas Wojewoda
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of Robert Kula
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:36 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>I agree Shirley. Enough is enough!!!!
>
> _____
>
>From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:33 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE READ
>
>
>Shirley,
>
>I'm with you on this one. This is ridiculous. Just another ploy to
>gain
>more control over their users. Independence all the way.
>
>
>Darren Mann
>IT Manager
>Miller Products Co.
>1015 N. Main St.
>Osceola, IA 50213
>Ph. 641-342-2103
>Fax 641-342-3222
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf
>Of
>Shirley Graver
>Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:20 AM
>To: Darren Mann
>Subject: [Vantage] In Regard to EUG Solicitation Post ALL MEMBERS
>PLEASE
>READ
>
>Sorry to the group for not addressing this post earlier, local issues
>have
>kept my attention focused away from my email. I am going to make
>this
>perfectly clear:
>
>TO THE EUG
>
>How dare you come on this list and try to poach our members. If I
>went
>to
>your list with the same message you would be screaming. You didn't
>have
>the
>courtesy to ask the moderators of this group if it was appropriate.
>Being
>one of the moderators I get the final word on this. This is the same
>response I would give to a consultant that "advertised" their
>services
>on
>this list.
>
>The post is inappropriate, if you post another like it I will ban
>your
>account. That goes for any other member of the list. If members are
>unhappy
>with what I've said here I strongly recomend the "Unsubscribe"
>button.
>
>Shirley Graver
>Moderator
>
>
>
>
>
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>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just had to make my claim to the early DCD company -- I was hired in
1984 to transition BVR from MAPICS to DCD JobShop when there was only
one level allowed on a job. At that time they gave you the source code.
My job was to rewrite the code to allow multiple level bill of materials
to become one job with different levels instead of a separate job for
each level. Rick Borg came down to Rockford after I was finished and
was very interested in what we had done. When Classic came out, we
transitioned to it to avoid the upgrade problem with the custom coding
that we had. We have been a DCD/Dataworks/Epicor customer since their
early beginnings. My only comment on Epicor is that it is a large
company with all the attendant problems and dysfunctionality that any
large company has.

Sandy Morse
BVR Technologies Company
815-874-2471 x112
Just curious. Is Rick or Bill Borg still part of Epicor? I remember
the early days of DCD Classic as well. One of the first DCD
conferences I attended, there was a forum and something was asked as an
enhancement and we were told that would be part of custom programming
and all of about 100 people or more all wanted this enhancement and
right there at that forum it was decided that because everyone felt so
strong about this enhancement that it would be part of the next release
and not custom programming. Oh bring back the good old days of DCD.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Morse" <smorse@b...> wrote:
> Just had to make my claim to the early DCD company -- I was hired in
> 1984 to transition BVR from MAPICS to DCD JobShop when there was only
> one level allowed on a job. At that time they gave you the source
code.
> My job was to rewrite the code to allow multiple level bill of
materials
> to become one job with different levels instead of a separate job for
> each level. Rick Borg came down to Rockford after I was finished and
> was very interested in what we had done. When Classic came out, we
> transitioned to it to avoid the upgrade problem with the custom coding
> that we had. We have been a DCD/Dataworks/Epicor customer since their
> early beginnings. My only comment on Epicor is that it is a large
> company with all the attendant problems and dysfunctionality that any
> large company has.
>
> Sandy Morse
> BVR Technologies Company
> 815-874-2471 x112
Jeeeezz. I didn't know the BORG were in on this too. I thought it
was just the DARK SIDE. Jean Luke where are you when we need you?
Who's next? The Wraith!

>"Is Rick or Bill Borg still part of Epicor? "

Shirley

Tracking #: 6E62E05132D20547AC3353850E9BDECF473D87E4


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh Shirley,

I'll follow you anywhere when you talk Trek. And then you throw in SW
and Stargate. Or were you referring to the Pa-Wraiths from DS9?

Bob

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Shirley Graver
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: EUG - A galaxy far, far away


Jeeeezz. I didn't know the BORG were in on this too. I thought it
was just the DARK SIDE. Jean Luke where are you when we need you?
Who's next? The Wraith!

>"Is Rick or Bill Borg still part of Epicor? "

Shirley

Tracking #: 6E62E05132D20547AC3353850E9BDECF473D87E4


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softw
are&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+d
atabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ>
Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=On
line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piLZhrmuaS0aRTs5A> Database
mortgage software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manuf
acturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+s
oftware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Onli
ne+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw>
Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufactur
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwa
re&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+da
tabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ> Database
management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=On
line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw> Online
database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+sof
tware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online
+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA>

________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The "Q"!!!!!!

_____

From: Robert T. Bruton [mailto:bob@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:25 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: EUG - A galaxy far, far away


Oh Shirley,

I'll follow you anywhere when you talk Trek. And then you throw in SW
and Stargate. Or were you referring to the Pa-Wraiths from DS9?

Bob

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Shirley Graver
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 10:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: EUG - A galaxy far, far away


Jeeeezz. I didn't know the BORG were in on this too. I thought it
was just the DARK SIDE. Jean Luke where are you when we need you?
Who's next? The Wraith!

>"Is Rick or Bill Borg still part of Epicor? "

Shirley

Tracking #: 6E62E05132D20547AC3353850E9BDECF473D87E4


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softw
are&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+d
atabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=AvWEwtBBb2CCZUYeLzjLVQ>
Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=On
line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8uEu2piLZhrmuaS0aRTs5A>
Database
mortgage software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manuf
acturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+s
oftware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Onli
ne+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=WxJOMUVfawa-Spj4srksIw>
Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufactur
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwa
re&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online+da
tabase+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=8c6UocdSpoECWlSALplOdQ> Database
management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=On
line+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=C2nNY1SnmwAiBO61ww9nTw>
Online
database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Online+database+software&w1=Manufac
turing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+sof
tware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Online
+database+software&c=6&s=185&.sig=cYursVrba9nF7BBMh8EfUA>

________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]