FW: Attn: Vantage User

At 01:05 PM 1/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't care who it is. I get enough unsolicited mail as it is. If it is
>possible for someone to get our email address and send us all unsolicited

Now Hold On... There's a big difference between the spam jerks peddling
get-rich-quick-schemes, porn, etc that send messages anonymously to
thousands or millions of strangers, usually through a "hijacked" server
-- Compared with a niche market vendor [that contributes to this forum]
sending a specially targeted message via their own facilities once in a while.

I don't mind hearing from Vantage consultants, even if they did grab my
name from this mailing list. So long as they keep the emails reasonably
infrequent (twice a year max?)

There's a big gray area between the two extremes, and everyone draws their
line at a slightly different point, I guess. Just to let you know, I
really despise anything that's not targeted to individuals, or a *very
small* audience. I had some jerk email me about his window washing service
in the metro area -- probably bought a CD from some spammer of local
addresses. After bitching to his ISP, heard his account was cancelled and
he'd sent it to over 20,000 addresses! HAHA! Die spammer!

-Wayne Cox
Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..
Brian,

I got this email as well.
It didn't appear to come from onelist.

Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Boyes
To: Vantage List (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with Mike. I have found comfort with the other providers and have
been able to find excellent customer service as well as competent services.

Lori A. Baker
Accountant/Information Systems
CardioPak Inc.
406.259.6387
Fax: 406.256.9875
lori_baker@...
www.cardiopak.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lowe [mailto:MLowe@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:10 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:[Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


It was sent privately to me.

I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to third party
providers of Vantage services.

I personally find comfort in knowing I have choices.

Again, just curious.


Mike Lowe
Corporate I.S. Manager
Connor Manufacturing Services
MLowe@...
(909) 273-1282


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 1/11/2002 11:57 AM

Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This had to be a private send. I work with ISI and this is not something
they would post to the Onelist (ourlist). And for new member's this list
IS subscribed to by many consultants as well as users as well as Epicor.

Shirley H. Graver
(End User)
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:57 AM
To: Vantage List (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User

Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Keep in mind also that some of these consultants provide answers to a lot of
our questions here on the vantage list.

Nora Story
Spectra Technologies, Inc.
817-540-4475, ext. 105
Nora_Story@...
I don't care who it is. I get enough unsolicited mail as it is. If it is
possible for someone to get our email address and send us all unsolicited
email in this way, who is to say they can't take our address and sell them
to a spam company?

Maybe this is something for the mods to address, but is it possible for
someone to get a list of our address from Yahogroups somehow? I know this
option can be turned off and I would like to suggest that be made to happen.
I would also like to suggest that one of the membership policies be that no
unsolicited commercial mail be sent to list members.

Brian

> -----Original Message-----
> I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to
> third party
> providers of Vantage services..
I got this to. I know it didn't come as a post to the list, those messages
sort to a special inbox. This one was sent to Jim Knight, and probably all
our addresses were put into a BCC. So I can't tell which of my email
addresses it came to.
Nancy

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Boyes [mailto:brianb@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:57 AM
To: Vantage List (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Personally I don't have a problem with a vendor of Vantage product/service sending a modest email to me. Specifically: vantage, modest, minimal qty. That's one of the few ways to even find these folks. And they do provide a service.

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Boyes
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


I don't care who it is. I get enough unsolicited mail as it is. If it is
possible for someone to get our email address and send us all unsolicited
email in this way, who is to say they can't take our address and sell them
to a spam company?

Maybe this is something for the mods to address, but is it possible for
someone to get a list of our address from Yahogroups somehow? I know this
option can be turned off and I would like to suggest that be made to happen.
I would also like to suggest that one of the membership policies be that no
unsolicited commercial mail be sent to list members.

Brian

> -----Original Message-----
> I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to
> third party
> providers of Vantage services..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I received it also, I agree with Mike I like to know there are others out
there with assistance. Choices are always good.

Warren R. Eddy
Information Services Manager
National Tube Form
A Leggett & Platt Company
Phone: (219) 478-2363 ext 217
Fax: (219) 478-1043
Warren.Eddy@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lowe [mailto:MLowe@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:[Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User

It was sent privately to me.

I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to third party
providers of Vantage services.

I personally find comfort in knowing I have choices.

Again, just curious.


Mike Lowe
Corporate I.S. Manager
Connor Manufacturing Services
MLowe@...
(909) 273-1282


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 1/11/2002 11:57 AM

Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This are was discussed in the core group ages ago, ISI has not violated the
rules of the group as I understand them

Shirley H. Graver
(End User)
Systems Administrator
Rubber Associates Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Eddy [mailto:warren.eddy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User

I received it also, I agree with Mike I like to know there are others out
there with assistance. Choices are always good.

Warren R. Eddy
Information Services Manager
National Tube Form
A Leggett & Platt Company
Phone: (219) 478-2363 ext 217
Fax: (219) 478-1043
Warren.Eddy@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lowe [mailto:MLowe@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:[Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User

It was sent privately to me.

I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to third party
providers of Vantage services.

I personally find comfort in knowing I have choices.

Again, just curious.


Mike Lowe
Corporate I.S. Manager
Connor Manufacturing Services
MLowe@...
(909) 273-1282


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 1/11/2002 11:57 AM

Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=216105.1806326.3318126.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=915130/R=0/O=1/I=brandr-lrec/postholidaygroup/*http://shopping.yahoo
.com/domain?d=holiday&cf=posthol01>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just discovered the BOOKMARKS section of the list, which has links to
third party vendors that provide services to vantage users.

Those interested in third party vendors should browse this list and check
them out. Many users on this list could very well benefit from the services
of these third parties. Many others have support and custom programming
capability in house, and have no need to receive unsolicited advertisements
via e-mail. I personally do not believe that it is ethical for a vendor to
send unsolicited advertisements to members of this free-information based
list, even if the member's e-mail address is exposed to every other member
of the group.

Besides posting a link in the BOOKMARKS section, I believe another
acceptable means for advertisement is posting helpful responses to the list
as much as posssible. I believe it is perfectly acceptable for a vendor to
put in the footer of the list some sort of BRIEF indication that they are a
3rd party vendor that provides services to Vantage users, and that users are
welcome to contact them off list for more info on the billable services
provided.

The more helpful responses a 3rd party service provider makes on this list,
the more likely it is that they will be solicited by list members for their
services.

However, one of the main things I LOVE about this list is all information
that is provided to me for FREE, and that being a member of this list rarely
exposes me to unsolicited advertisements on or off list.

However, I also believe that it is perfectly acceptable for a list member to
reccommend the services of a third party to other list members, in response
to an issue, citing directly how the third party's services enabled the
member to solve the particular issue. Mike Podlin's timeout utility, for
instance.

Best Regards,

Thaddeus Jacobs


-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Eddy [mailto:warren.eddy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:10 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


I received it also, I agree with Mike I like to know there are others out
there with assistance. Choices are always good.

Warren R. Eddy
Information Services Manager
National Tube Form
A Leggett & Platt Company
Phone: (219) 478-2363 ext 217
Fax: (219) 478-1043
Warren.Eddy@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lowe [mailto:MLowe@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:10 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:[Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User

It was sent privately to me.

I'm curious as to why some people respond with such rancor to third party
providers of Vantage services.

I personally find comfort in knowing I have choices.

Again, just curious.


Mike Lowe
Corporate I.S. Manager
Connor Manufacturing Services
MLowe@...
(909) 273-1282


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 1/11/2002 11:57 AM

Was this sent to the list or privately? If the latter, how did they get my
address? Someone has just earned a nice spot on my blocked domains list!

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Knight [mailto:jimk@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:11 AM
To: Jim Knight
Subject: Attn: Vantage User


Intelligent Systems Integration> , Inc. (ISI, Inc.) would like > to
> introduce ourselves to you as a business partner..

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
You know this is all fine and good, but considering that EVERY one of our emails contains a flashy blinking ad I still don't have a problem with a couple ad-type emails regarding the very product that we are all living with.

my 4 cents (2 now, 2 prior)...

Rick Gors


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To add a stripe to a dead horse...
1. To Nancy, if you use outlook, open the email and look under
tools/options and then read the header info for the address it was delivered
to.
2. I personally have to delete some 50 messages or more per day of Spam.
It is refreshing to get something that is of value even if it is
unsolicited.
3. I think it was very responsible of the sender to add us all (that it was
sent to) to the Bcc field where our address would not be advertised to
everyone that was included. No this is not the best way to get your
information out there, but I doubt Epicor is going to set up a web page for
the competition to advertise on.
4. And finally, I would hate to do the math for time wasted complaining
about the mail compared to time spent determining it was not of value to you
and hitting the delete key. I am not in any way suggesting that I am for
Spam, but only getting one copy of a message from one person on one day (so
long as I don't get this same add weekly or something) that has relevance to
me, is not my idea of Spam.

Just my .02... $.04

Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:35 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


This are was discussed in the core group ages ago, ISI has not violated the
rules of the group as I understand them
(909) 273-1282
Just FYI regarding the ads at the bottom of the list: In your yahoo groups
subscription options, you can change the format of the mail to plain text.
Then you don't get the graphics, just text ads.

Brian

> You know this is all fine and good, but considering that
> EVERY one of our emails contains a flashy blinking ad I still
> don't have a problem with a couple ad-type emails regarding
> the very product that we are all living with..
OK I tried to sit by idle but can't resist anymore. We are also one of
"those consulting companies". As consultant's we try and help the user's.
Although we give free information out to the community we don't turn down
the possibility of doing work on a chargeable basis also. I was once a user
and loved the opportunity to receive information from other resources and to
be able to make a decision as to who I wanted to work with. Without fair
competition no one would be able to survive. AS a user you have choices - do
the work in house, Use Epicor, use an independent, use a consulting company,
etc.

I don't think that ISI did anything wrong by sending an email out to the
user's. He did not broadcast to the list via the group list. I have from
time to time send emails direct to users of this list and if requested we
remove the person from our list and do not contact them again.

My 2 cents worth on a "no charge basis".

Keith E. Taylor
Vice President

LBSi
Information systems consulting
Specializing in Progress based ERP packages
Training, customization, programming and Business Consulting

12120 Elmwood Ave., Cleveland, OH 44111
Phone: 216-476-1416 ext 26
Fax: 216-476-1452
email: keith@...
I too have tried to not respond to this thread, but I must add my 2 cents.
Of all the groups I belong to this one has the least amount of
self-publication from consultants. I have worked with Made2Manage, Macola
Progression, and Mas90, as well as Vantage. All of these software
manufacturers have a robust cadre of independent consultants. Consultants
that they treat as partners to help provide support for their products.
They have special training and company meetings (similar to Perspectives)
for consultants. They work with their consultants and users' groups to get
as much information out about their software, about bugs and fixes, and
about how the product is used in the field as they can.

Information and knowledge are power, the more power you possess to deal with
day-to-day problems the more problem free you become and the more successful
you are. We expend a tremendous amount of time and money on the issues we
discuss on this group. I say time and money because the time you spend
reviewing the e-mail and responding is money your employer is paying you.
We pursue many off-topic discussions, we revisit the same threads over and
over again, and we provide a lot of free experience and expertise. There
are certain individuals on this list that act as if independent consultant
are lepers. Epicor discourages the use of independent consultants and we
don't hear from all the users' groups around the country. Every time we
refuse to accept new information, no matter what source it comes from, we
are passing up the opportunity to learn and grow.

So an independent consultant posted an e-mail to some people from this list
or maybe not? How about the next time someone brings up AP Check printing
thread again we start screaming about revisiting this thread. That wouldn't
be fair to all the new users who weren't on Vantage the last time that was
discussed and this is new to them. They have to sift through all the
traffic from advanced Vantage users, Progress programmers, and techies that
speak a foreign language. Every e-mail isn't for everyone on the list. We
would like to hope that the range of topics is broad and varied so that
everyone gets something out of this list and yes sometimes that something is
knowing they have choices in how they get help for their problems.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1 cameron@...
Toll Free: 866-464-7421
Office: 708-445-7509
Cell: 630-712-9520
Office Fax: 630-893-1307
Direct Fax: 443-638-0489
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cameron,

I want to thank you personally for your responses to this list, and want to
assure you that I don't consider you to be a "Leper", and completely
apologize if for any reason if my e-mail gave you that impression in any
way.

Part of my negative tone was based on the fact that I'm annoyed at the
relatively few truly helpful posts in the last month by members of the
particular firm that was cited as sending unsolicited e-mails. I'm still of
the opinion that for a vendor to deserve free business exposure on the free
yahoogroups list, or to deserve the right to send e-mails to addresses
acquired for free as a member of this list, the vendor ought to contribute
regularly to the list with helpful thought out responses.

I'm constantly deleting responses that are irrelevant to our implemenation
of vantage, yet remains 8 of your responses, and my archive only dates back
one month. All of your responses have been thorough, helpful, and most
educational.

Please feel free to add me to any of Misha1's mailing lists that relate to
Vantage or Progress. At this point, my employer is more interested in
training me to learn how to develop reports and vantage related applications
rather than hiring outside consultants at a significantly greater rate than
12.60/hour to do our custom reports and programming for us. However, there
may very well be some projects on my plate in the future that would best be
outsourced to a company such as yours.

Also if your company provides any training in the realms of how to write
visual studio or progress applications that interface with vantage, I'm
definitely interesed in learning whatever I can, and my employer is
definitely open to paying for me to learn things that will improve my value
to the Company.

Best Regards,

Thaddeus

-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron A. Janish [mailto:cameron@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] FW: Attn: Vantage User


I too have tried to not respond to this thread, but I must add my 2 cents.
Of all the groups I belong to this one has the least amount of
self-publication from consultants. I have worked with Made2Manage, Macola
Progression, and Mas90, as well as Vantage. All of these software
manufacturers have a robust cadre of independent consultants. Consultants
that they treat as partners to help provide support for their products.
They have special training and company meetings (similar to Perspectives)
for consultants. They work with their consultants and users' groups to get
as much information out about their software, about bugs and fixes, and
about how the product is used in the field as they can.

Information and knowledge are power, the more power you possess to deal with
day-to-day problems the more problem free you become and the more successful
you are. We expend a tremendous amount of time and money on the issues we
discuss on this group. I say time and money because the time you spend
reviewing the e-mail and responding is money your employer is paying you.
We pursue many off-topic discussions, we revisit the same threads over and
over again, and we provide a lot of free experience and expertise. There
are certain individuals on this list that act as if independent consultant
are lepers. Epicor discourages the use of independent consultants and we
don't hear from all the users' groups around the country. Every time we
refuse to accept new information, no matter what source it comes from, we
are passing up the opportunity to learn and grow.

So an independent consultant posted an e-mail to some people from this list
or maybe not? How about the next time someone brings up AP Check printing
thread again we start screaming about revisiting this thread. That wouldn't
be fair to all the new users who weren't on Vantage the last time that was
discussed and this is new to them. They have to sift through all the
traffic from advanced Vantage users, Progress programmers, and techies that
speak a foreign language. Every e-mail isn't for everyone on the list. We
would like to hope that the range of topics is broad and varied so that
everyone gets something out of this list and yes sometimes that something is
knowing they have choices in how they get help for their problems.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1 cameron@...
Toll Free: 866-464-7421
Office: 708-445-7509
Cell: 630-712-9520
Office Fax: 630-893-1307
Direct Fax: 443-638-0489
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/