Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

Yahoo Archive
1
Thanks to those who have replied (both on and off list) !

The info has been pretty much in line with what I expected, that the App Server and SQL need their fair share of CPU and RAM as well as fast access to Disk.

After discovering the cause for our performance problems (See my other thread) our system is performing pretty well.

Regards,
Neil
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "too_much_hg" <neil_willet@...> wrote:
>
> I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.
>
> We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.
>
> Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4 Proc (quad core) ?
>
> How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?
>
> Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?
>
> Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.
>
> I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !
>
> Thanks !
> Neil (507) 665-6204 x283
>
2
I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4 Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283
3
Are these total or simultaneous users?

If simultaneous, I would buy a quad-socket box and start with 2 quad-cores and add more if you need them. I doubt you'll be CPU-bound though. If total, you're probably fine with a dual-socked box with quad cores.

64-bit Server 2003 and MSSQL 2005.

I would start with 16GB of RAM at least (if for this reason and no other you want 64-bit Windows). MSSQL will take whatever you can give it and be happy to use it.

Most importantly, you want to spread your I/O load across lots of 15K SAS spindles. At a minimum Epicor recommends:

1 RAID0 mirror for C:\ (system)
1 RAID0 mirror for E:\ Epicor app files
1 RAID10 mirror/stripe for F:\ (MSSQL data files)
1 RAID0 mirror for G:\ (MSSQL Log and Tempdb)

My 8.03 install put the Epicor files on C:\ which is bad because you can't take advantage of volume snapshots to back out of upgrades if the files are on the system drives, etc. and in theory you'll get better I/O performance.

My sense is that your rate-limiters are I/O, then memory, then CPU.

-bws

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of too_much_hg
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4 Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
4
not to be too technical, but that should be...

1 RAID1 mirror for C:\ (system)
1 RAID1 mirror for E:\ Epicor app files
1 RAID10 mirror/stripe for F:\ (MSSQL data files)
1 RAID1 mirror for G:\ (MSSQL Log and Tempdb)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian W. Spolarich " <bspolarich@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users


Are these total or simultaneous users?

If simultaneous, I would buy a quad-socket box and start with 2 quad-cores
and add more if you need them. I doubt you'll be CPU-bound though. If
total, you're probably fine with a dual-socked box with quad cores.

64-bit Server 2003 and MSSQL 2005.

I would start with 16GB of RAM at least (if for this reason and no other
you want 64-bit Windows). MSSQL will take whatever you can give it and be
happy to use it.

Most importantly, you want to spread your I/O load across lots of 15K SAS
spindles. At a minimum Epicor recommends:

1 RAID0 mirror for C:\ (system)
1 RAID0 mirror for E:\ Epicor app files
1 RAID10 mirror/stripe for F:\ (MSSQL data files)
1 RAID0 mirror for G:\ (MSSQL Log and Tempdb)

My 8.03 install put the Epicor files on C:\ which is bad because you can't
take advantage of volume snapshots to back out of upgrades if the files are
on the system drives, etc. and in theory you'll get better I/O performance.

My sense is that your rate-limiters are I/O, then memory, then CPU.

-bws

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix
bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
too_much_hg
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4
Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans
out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
5
Doh, thanks. I've built enough of these systems over the years you'd think I could remember RAID0 vs. RAID1.

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix / Picometrix
    bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ned
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:29 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

not to be too technical, but that should be...

1 RAID1 mirror for C:\ (system)
1 RAID1 mirror for E:\ Epicor app files
1 RAID10 mirror/stripe for F:\ (MSSQL data files)
1 RAID1 mirror for G:\ (MSSQL Log and Tempdb)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian W. Spolarich " <bspolarich@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users


Are these total or simultaneous users?

If simultaneous, I would buy a quad-socket box and start with 2 quad-cores
and add more if you need them. I doubt you'll be CPU-bound though. If
total, you're probably fine with a dual-socked box with quad cores.

64-bit Server 2003 and MSSQL 2005.

I would start with 16GB of RAM at least (if for this reason and no other
you want 64-bit Windows). MSSQL will take whatever you can give it and be
happy to use it.

Most importantly, you want to spread your I/O load across lots of 15K SAS
spindles. At a minimum Epicor recommends:

1 RAID0 mirror for C:\ (system)
1 RAID0 mirror for E:\ Epicor app files
1 RAID10 mirror/stripe for F:\ (MSSQL data files)
1 RAID0 mirror for G:\ (MSSQL Log and Tempdb)

My 8.03 install put the Epicor files on C:\ which is bad because you can't
take advantage of volume snapshots to back out of upgrades if the files are
on the system drives, etc. and in theory you'll get better I/O performance.

My sense is that your rate-limiters are I/O, then memory, then CPU.

-bws

--
Brian W. Spolarich ~ Manager, Information Services ~ Advanced Photonix /
Picometrix
bspolarich@... ~ 734-864-5618 ~ www.advancedphotonix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
too_much_hg
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4
Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans
out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
6
We are on Progress and only have 25 users so my server hardware specs won't help you, but I can tell you that the hardware on the client end makes a big difference also. I was running an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ with 2 GB Ram. This was acceptable, but when I upgraded to 4GB Ram it ran even better. Since our server didn't appear to be taxed in any way, we replaced 11 or our workstations with Dell OptiPlex 740 Desktop, Athlon 64 X2 5600+ (2.9GHz,512KBX2) with 4GB Ram, 256MB ATI RADEON HD 2400 XT Graphics dual DVI or VGA, and 22' wide screen monitors. I haven't heard a complaint about performance since. They ran about $1,100 a piece.
Â
All our workstations are on Windows XP Professional.
Â
We have a separate server for our Tie Commerce, Epicor Portal, Service Connect, and Customer Connect. I highly recommend not running anything on your Vantage server except Vantage. The one exception to this is Insite Manifest if you have it. I believe this has to be on the Vantage Server. And make sure you have a fast raid 10 drive setup.
Â
Most of our network is 1gb speed, but we still have a few users on 100mb network. Performance is still pretty good even for those on the 100mb network.




________________________________
From: too_much_hg <neil_willet@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14:29 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users





I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)? 4 Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
Steve,



Do you have multi-plants or a single shop? I'm looking to upgrade many
of our local users, but don't think it would pay to upgrade machines at
our 3 other sites if they are just using Citrix for Vantage.



Travis



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steven Gotschall
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:44 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users








We are on Progress and only have 25 users so my server hardware specs
won't help you, but I can tell you that the hardware on the client end
makes a big difference also. I was running an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual
Core 5200+ with 2 GB Ram. This was acceptable, but when I upgraded to
4GB Ram it ran even better. Since our server didn't appear to be taxed
in any way, we replaced 11 or our workstations with Dell OptiPlex 740
Desktop, Athlon 64 X2 5600+ (2.9GHz,512KBX2) with 4GB Ram, 256MB ATI
RADEON HD 2400 XT Graphics dual DVI or VGA, and 22' wide screen
monitors. I haven't heard a complaint about performance since. They
ran about $1,100 a piece.

All our workstations are on Windows XP Professional.

We have a separate server for our Tie Commerce, Epicor Portal, Service
Connect, and Customer Connect. I highly recommend not running anything
on your Vantage server except Vantage. The one exception to this is
Insite Manifest if you have it. I believe this has to be on the Vantage
Server. And make sure you have a fast raid 10 drive setup.

Most of our network is 1gb speed, but we still have a few users on 100mb
network. Performance is still pretty good even for those on the 100mb
network.

________________________________
From: too_much_hg <neil_willet@...
<mailto:neil_willet%40lesueurinc.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14:29 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)?
4 Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the
veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
8
Single shop, no Citrix.




________________________________
From: "Late, Travis" <tlate@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:52:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users





Steve,

Do you have multi-plants or a single shop? I'm looking to upgrade many
of our local users, but don't think it would pay to upgrade machines at
our 3 other sites if they are just using Citrix for Vantage.

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of Steven Gotschall
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:44 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

We are on Progress and only have 25 users so my server hardware specs
won't help you, but I can tell you that the hardware on the client end
makes a big difference also. I was running an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual
Core 5200+ with 2 GB Ram. This was acceptable, but when I upgraded to
4GB Ram it ran even better. Since our server didn't appear to be taxed
in any way, we replaced 11 or our workstations with Dell OptiPlex 740
Desktop, Athlon 64 X2 5600+ (2.9GHz,512KBX2) with 4GB Ram, 256MB ATI
RADEON HD 2400 XT Graphics dual DVI or VGA, and 22' wide screen
monitors. I haven't heard a complaint about performance since. They
ran about $1,100 a piece.

All our workstations are on Windows XP Professional.

We have a separate server for our Tie Commerce, Epicor Portal, Service
Connect, and Customer Connect. I highly recommend not running anything
on your Vantage server except Vantage. The one exception to this is
Insite Manifest if you have it. I believe this has to be on the Vantage
Server. And make sure you have a fast raid 10 drive setup.

Most of our network is 1gb speed, but we still have a few users on 100mb
network. Performance is still pretty good even for those on the 100mb
network.

____________ _________ _________ __
From: too_much_hg <neil_willet@ lesueurinc. com
<mailto:neil_ willet%40lesueur inc.com> >
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com <mailto:vantage% 40yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:14:29 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Hardware needed for 70+ Vantage & 50 MES users

I am trying to get some real world feedback from existing Epicor sites.

We plan to use SQL 2005 for the database.

Just how much horsepower will this server need .... 2 Proc (quad core)?
4 Proc (quad core) ?

How much RAM can I expect to use under moderate to heavy usage ?

Are most sites going with X64bit or X32bit ? Pro's and Con's ?

Any tips or gotcha's when deciding on my setup.

I need to purchase the hardware very soon and some advice from the
veterans out there would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks !
Neil (507) 665-6204 x283

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]