Heads up

In my humble opinion, automatic "OPT IN" is an un ethical approach to
promoting new products. The requirement to "OPT OUT" after the fact, incurs
a cost on a consumer/ customer in time and effort to undo what should have
been in their control in the first place. Additionally, if such a thing is
missed for whatever reason it incurs a cost that the consumer/customer pays
without informed consideration and review. WHATEVER service is being
offered, be it long distance, Spam, pornography, training programs, license
agreements, I retain and require the right of first choice. It's MY
decision to add or not add an optional choice to the cost to my bill, NOT
the vendors marketing department. Regardless of the fact that you can get
an "adjusted" invoice it shouldn't be on there in the first place.

Shirley Graver
Rubber Associates Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 12:36 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Heads up

Quoted from a cover letter sent with the invoice.

"One of these new offerings is to provide you with the option to receive
UNLIMITED eLearning during your maintenance term! An additional two percent
increase on your invoice will allow you and your co-workers to attend all
eighty-five of our eLearning classes, throughout the year.

Vantage eLearning sessions are designed to offer a flexible and
cost-effective way to train your employees. These sessions are offered
on-line so there is no expensive travel or extended time away from the
office. All you need is a phone line, a Web Browser, an Internet
connection, and two hours dedicated to learning. For complete details,
including a schedule of sessions and on-line enrollment, see our eLearning
catalog." Then there is some more bla bla bla and then the part about
opting out.

"The addition of this service has been included in your current maintenance
renewal invoice, which is enclosed herewith. However, this Vantage
Maintenance Plus Plan is elective. Should you choose to participate, please
pay the amount as indicated on the invoice. If you choose not to
participate, and wish to remain at your current maintenance plan level
please contact me as soon as possible to receive an adjusted renewal
invoice." etc etc.....



-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:46 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Heads up


What constitutes "Online training"?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:38 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Heads up

We received our annual bill for maintenance from Epicor this month. It had
a 2% fee for online training that they automatically added. I missed it
but the accountant noticed it. You have to opt out of it not to be
charged. It was $3,532.00 for us. Just thought I would give a heads up.
Normally I don't miss such things but then again I don't expect a vendor to
add on items without us requesting them to do so. I thought it to be a bit
sneaky.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.2928724.4275591.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17050071
83:HM/A=1437763/R=0/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+s
hopping:dmad/M=231971.2928724.4275591.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705007183:HM/A=
1437763/R=1/10443%20>


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We received our annual bill for maintenance from Epicor this month. It had
a 2% fee for online training that they automatically added. I missed it
but the accountant noticed it. You have to opt out of it not to be
charged. It was $3,532.00 for us. Just thought I would give a heads up.
Normally I don't miss such things but then again I don't expect a vendor to
add on items without us requesting them to do so. I thought it to be a bit
sneaky.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation
What constitutes "Online training"?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:38 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Heads up

We received our annual bill for maintenance from Epicor this month. It had
a 2% fee for online training that they automatically added. I missed it
but the accountant noticed it. You have to opt out of it not to be
charged. It was $3,532.00 for us. Just thought I would give a heads up.
Normally I don't miss such things but then again I don't expect a vendor to
add on items without us requesting them to do so. I thought it to be a bit
sneaky.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What online training? Is this something new?

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: [Vantage] Heads up
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2/3/03 9:37 AM

We received our annual bill for maintenance from Epicor this month. It had
a 2% fee for online training that they automatically added. I missed it
but the accountant noticed it. You have to opt out of it not to be
charged. It was $3,532.00 for us. Just thought I would give a heads up.
Normally I don't miss such things but then again I don't expect a vendor to
add on items without us requesting them to do so. I thought it to be a bit
sneaky.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






----------

Received: from alv-web1.alvaka.net [207.213.32.80] by la-smtpg.connorms.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.31.00.5)
; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:26:56 -0800
Return-Path: <sentto-20369-37540-1044283057-MLowe=connorms.com@...>
Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.108])
by alv-web1.alvaka.net (NAVGW 2.5.1.12) with SMTP id M2003020306405416619
for <MLowe@...>; Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:40:55 -0800
X-eGroups-Return: sentto-20369-37540-1044283057-MLowe=connorms.com@...
Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2003 14:37:37 -0000
X-Sender: JLeonard@...
X-Apparently-To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 3 Feb 2003 14:37:36 -0000
Received: (qmail 2518 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2003 14:37:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218)
by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2003 14:37:35 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO k-tsvr1.ktcorp.com) (204.180.44.123)
by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2003 14:37:35 -0000
Received: by k-tsvr1.ktcorp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
id <1FH2HA81>; Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:37:34 -0500
Message-ID: <198ABC1B94AA0643BE422EB10902375817D7@...>
To: "'vantage@yahoogroups.com'" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
From: "Leonard, Jeremy" <jleonard@...>
X-Yahoo-Profile: sqlguy29in
MIME-Version: 1.0
Mailing-List: list vantage@yahoogroups.com; contact vantage-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list vantage@yahoogroups.com
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:37:33 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] Heads up
Reply-To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Quoted from a cover letter sent with the invoice.

"One of these new offerings is to provide you with the option to receive
UNLIMITED eLearning during your maintenance term! An additional two percent
increase on your invoice will allow you and your co-workers to attend all
eighty-five of our eLearning classes, throughout the year.

Vantage eLearning sessions are designed to offer a flexible and
cost-effective way to train your employees. These sessions are offered
on-line so there is no expensive travel or extended time away from the
office. All you need is a phone line, a Web Browser, an Internet
connection, and two hours dedicated to learning. For complete details,
including a schedule of sessions and on-line enrollment, see our eLearning
catalog." Then there is some more bla bla bla and then the part about
opting out.

"The addition of this service has been included in your current maintenance
renewal invoice, which is enclosed herewith. However, this Vantage
Maintenance Plus Plan is elective. Should you choose to participate, please
pay the amount as indicated on the invoice. If you choose not to
participate, and wish to remain at your current maintenance plan level
please contact me as soon as possible to receive an adjusted renewal
invoice." etc etc.....



-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:46 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Heads up


What constitutes "Online training"?

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:38 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Heads up

We received our annual bill for maintenance from Epicor this month. It had
a 2% fee for online training that they automatically added. I missed it
but the accountant noticed it. You have to opt out of it not to be
charged. It was $3,532.00 for us. Just thought I would give a heads up.
Normally I don't miss such things but then again I don't expect a vendor to
add on items without us requesting them to do so. I thought it to be a bit
sneaky.

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/