Job Entry Questions

Epicor ERP 10
1

First, some background info. My company is in the stone age as far as their implementation of Epicor - we are still have not upgraded to Kinetic and will not be doing so for at least another year (apparently we made absolutely way too many customized fields / screens when they first adopted it and everything has to be redone from scratch in Kinetic). The other issue is that they have never truly implemented any of the core tools Epicor provides and therefore don’t really have any knowhow on how to actually run things in Epicor. We have no on-site expert and don’t have any sort of training on how to use the software. We’re running on band-aids and hopium, in all honesty.

My production team has issues pushing jobs through the operation steps frequently, because they code the jobs for say 60 pieces and don’t account for scrap at any of the operation steps. So Epicor expects to see 60 good/completed pieces at the end of the final operation in order to close out the job, but we may only have 59 because they scrapped one. Until this point, operations would either just kind of grab another material and make the 60th part without capturing it (so technically they would use 61) or just drop the job quantity from 60 to 59 to allow the operations to be completed. Now that I’m trying to implement actual quality tools/data captures for KPI’s, things are getting difficult. We have the operators not able to complete out their steps (say Op 20) due to not having the correct quantity of parts to complete out, so they just physically move it on and don’t do anything in the MES to push the job, since they can’t complete the step if they have 59 of 60 completed. This is putting a major strain on my final inspection team because they are receiving jobs where 2 to sometimes 5 operations haven’t been completed yet in Epicor but physically the parts are ready for final inspection. I have started getting some operators to begin using the Nonconformance entry when they have a nonconforming part, but not all (I’m still trying to get the training in place and have supervisors push the issue with people).

I found on the Job Entry screen that there is a place for putting in scrap rates at the operation level, but I don’t know how it works and I couldn’t find a previously discussed topic thread for it (could be I just wasn’t hitting the right buzzwords). Is there a way to put in a scrap rate for the whole job? It looks like at the operation level, I can dictate either by quantity or by percentage of the job total; is there a way to apply that to the whole job or do we have to set it at each operation each time we make a job?

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If we can input a scrap rate on some of these jobs and it would allow the operations to continue flowing that would be a big help. My initial thought was to basically dictate a straight quantity, so for example if the job is 60pcs put in a scrap of 5pcs, so my thinking is it would bump the production value to 65, and allow the job to flow operation-to-operation as long as we have 60pcs good or more. After seeing that it’s tied to the individual operation (screenshot above), I am not sure if that’s how it can work now. Can someone explain how that highlighted section functions?

My next question is related to what do we need to do when a part is contained as a nonconformance? I would think that if we issued enough raw material to make 60 parts, we would need to issue 1 extra raw material piece to make up for the one that was scrapped (60 total OK, 1 scrap). However, this seems to cause issues because when we tried this this week it pushed a job from a total of 40 completed to a total of 42 completed. My final inspection team had to “pass” -2 parts in order to close out the operation step to get it to balance out. For clarification, it said operation 10 completed 42 parts, but the operator created a nonconformance on op 10 for 2 parts and it didn’t capture it in the job data for some reason. So he ended up passing 42 parts OK parts instead of 40 OK and 2 Nonconformance while still having an active nonconformance record for 2 parts. Final inspection was Op 20 and since the job total quantity due was 40 it required a -2 to be input to end the task/close it out. What is the proper way of handling adding in additional material? Or should we always just reduce the due quantity and create a second job for the missing pieces (so for the above example it would have been 38pc and 2pc jobs)? Obviously something screwed up with the reporting, I’m just not sure what since the record was updated/changed so many times before I could look at it and I guess that isn’t recorded in the change log. I imagine it was a data entry error but the operator doesn’t remember since this apparently happened over a week ago (and they just informed me yesterday). We jerry-rigged a solution for this one, but I would like to know how to do it the correct way for the (inevitable) next time.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully it all makes sense.

2

Wow, there is a lot here… first off: “running on hopium”! Love it! :laughing:

First thoughts (and others will hopefully chime in)… you don’t HAVE to complete the required quantity in order for an operation to be “completed”. Yes, completing the required quantity will automatically mark the operation complete. But an operator can enter a production qty of 59, and then manually mark the operation complete.

And yes, if they do scrap one, and grab another raw material… someone SHOULD make sure that extra raw material is issued to the job so your costing and raw material inventories stay correct.

Getting operators to click that “Operation Complete” button is the bane of my existence! Hell, I’d be happy if they even reported accurate Production Qty on their time entries! Bad quantities and unchecked Operation Complete happens all the time! The good thing is, nothing is preventing them from starting Op 30 is Op 20 isn’t marketed complete (they may get a shop warning)… unless you put in some functionality to not allow it. But each operation being marked complete is not necessarily required.

I could be wrong about this… but this is an “expected / planned” scrap value. And I believe it will actually increase your material requirements. So, for example, I’m running a job to bake cookies… I know I need to mix all the materials in a mixer BEFORE I start baking. Not all of the material is going to come out… some sticks to the sides of the bowl (or I plan to eat the dough that sticks to the beaters). This is planned scrap. My operation is to mix 10 lbs of good product… but I’m going to account for start-up scrap and I’ll need 10.25 lbs of raw materials. (Cause I’m gonna plan on losing (me eating) 0.25 lbs of the mixed dough. This “scrap” value is tied to the materials required for that particular operation.

The next operation (baking) should receive 10 lbs from the previous operation and output 10 lbs. (no planned scrap in that operation). If that all makes sense. But that’s why this is an operational setting, not necessarily a job setting.

Putting a part into non-conformance starts a whole Inspection/DMR process. I believe the nonconforming part goes into an inspection queue. It should be evaluated by an inspector and it CAN be released BACK to the job… the inspector says “its not THAT bad… keep going”. In that case, its not scrapped and it goes back into the operational flow. Or, the inspector could say “yep, this one’s junk”… and that part fails inspection and can be scrapped. But if you’re not completing those nonconformance/DMR processes, I’m not 100% sure how that impacts the job quantities.

There are also a setting in various places like Company Config > Production > QA which can control where COSTS of noncoformance/inspection/DMR goes when parts are flagged. Material costs are taken off the job as soon as a part (qty) is flagged for nonconformance, but the costs of the “assembly” (labor/burden costs) stay on the job until the part is rejected in inspection and moves to DMR.

A lot of toggles to consider how you want costing to occur, etc.

There are also some settings in Site Config > Production which circle around Production Yield which you may want to investigate.

Can’t say I have an answer to all your questions, sorry… again, a lot of switches, toggles, etc. Hard to keep them all straight and its been a while since our implementation and we worked with a consultant on all the various settings.

3

Another setting to explore (akin to the Production Yield settings in Site Config) is each operation has a “Recalculate expected Yield” checkbox.

Field Help:

Recalculate Expected Yield

Select this check box if you want the application to adjust the job production yield of any job that uses this operation and has been flagged to use the automatic recalculation feature. The application will adjust the job production quantity only if the operation results in under-production. Because of this feature, the option is only an under-production delta. You enter this threshold in the Recalculate Yield Under % field on this sheet. (If you want to monitor over-production, use the Create Shop Warning check box and/or the Send Shop Warning Alert check box and set a threshold in the Variance Over % field on this sheet.)

To determine if under-production has occurred, the application looks for a variance between the actual and estimated production quantities of the operation. If the variance is above the threshold established for this operation in the Recalculate Yield Under % field on this sheet, the application automatically changes the estimated production yield quantity of the job that uses this operation. The recalculated quantity displays in the Prod. field (Quantities section) in Job Entry . (The original job production quantity is not displayed in Job Entry but is available for reporting purposes. Your system administrator will need to create the report through Crystal Reports or dashboards.)

For this setting to activate, the Production Yield check box on the Job Entry > Header sheet needs to be selected for the job that uses this operation. If a job uses multiple operations, you need to select the Recalculate Expected Yield option for each of the operations in Operation Maintenance.

… and the Production Yield checkbox on Job Entry:

Field Help:

Production Yield

When selected, this check box instructs the Epicor application to perform production yield recalculation for this job in the event that its operations result in over-production or under-production. You also need to select one or more of the three system actions available on the Operation master for every operation used in this job to enable production yield recalculation to result in some action. If a system action is not selected on the Operation masters for operations for this job, the Epicor application performs production yield recalculation, but cannot undertake further action such as sending a warnings or alerts, or adjusting the job quantity automatically.

In addition, you also need to select the Production Yield Default option on the Plant master of each plant that stocks the parts used in this job (and its operations), along with one or both Production Yield system actions available on the Plant master. If this job does not have any operations, the recalculation process is not executed even if the Production Yield check box is selected for the job.

This check box is automatically selected if this job uses a part stocked in a plant that has the Production Yield Default check box selected on the Plant master.

The actual production quantity of the operation is the quantity reported in Labor Entry or in Office Data Collection. Once the operation is marked as Complete on the Labor Entry - Labor Detail sheet, the Epicor application can start production yield recalculation. The estimated production quantity of the operation is the required quantity plus the estimated scrap.

The recalculation process does not start automatically after labor entry. You need to schedule or run the automated recalculation by scheduling the Production Yield Recalculation Process. This is a batch process.

If you select the Recalculate Expected Yield checkbox and the job holds an operation in its method that includes the Recalculate Yield Under % value of zero, as defined in Operation Maintenance, and the last operation on the job is completed short, but marked as Completed, the job production quantity will be recalculated after you run the Production Yield Recalculation process.

4

The exciting part about this is there’s a lot of opportunity to help out and improve. And there’s hope still, just like there was when they decided to buy the software.

Hopefully you can find the support there to re-implement the ERP system.

5

Yeah, as @utaylor noted… this really sounds like a re-implementation. It’ll cost ya… but if you want to get the value out of the system/software, it may be worth working with a consultant who can walk you through all the variables for how your company operates.

6

And your company would need to all get together and support it, every stakeholder that leads every department if you really want to see it come together how you hope.

7

We may have done something like this, because when the error message pops up it says quantities have to match exactly (I’ve asked my inspection team to let me grab a screenshot of the error on the next job they go to complete here today, maybe it will help).

I have started pushing the operations team to begin using the nonconformances and DMRs the way they should be, however we just only this week got our work instructions updated and are still in the process of getting everyone signed off on them. I guess perhaps my understanding is still lacking in that department, because I thought once a DMR was created (the nonconformance inspection failed) it was pulled off the job and would only be added back on if the part was given an Accept disposition. At least that’s how it works for some of the jobs (maybe that’s due to the parts being coded as material, so the nonconformance is a material vs. operation).

No, I appreciate all the help I can get! The business went through an ownership change so that’s kind of driving the push to get Epicor working properly vs. the years of just “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality.

8

I certainly hope so; I would like to at least be able to figure out the system and get it somewhat functioning correctly before we make the jump to Kinetic and have to restart with some of the people ‘set in their ways’ around here.

9

We do have a consultant we’re partnered with, but my understanding is he’s more of a programmer / BAQ type guy for reports. That, and he’s busy trying to get our customization (sigh) into Kinetic.

I don’t know who’s bright idea it was to try to make Epicor mirror our previous ERP system as much as possible instead of learn how to use Epicor properly, but it has been nothing but a nightmare for us new people coming in. That decision was made 10 years ago, well before my time here.

10

Ooh boy, I can’t even get them to budge on simple things (I’ve been trying to get nonconformances and DMRs going for over a year), I don’t know if I can swing something like that. I’ll have to go talk my boss on that one.

I appreciate all the solid advice!

11

Josh, it’s going to be the fastest and most complete way to implement Kinetic. If you have everyone on the same page, aligned, etc. you’ll be like, man, why didn’t we do this 10 years ago.

It’s easier said than done, but you’ll burn yourself out quick if you try and go it alone, or just as a one or two person team.

12

This is the key… forcing Epicor to look/act like something its not means over-customization and confusion.

The GOOD thing I just saw is:

Change comes with pain and cost. The previous ownership bought the software but didn’t “implement” it. If new ownership wants to use the system as it should be used, there is going to be costs involved (consultants to train the trainers)… and pain involved (the trainers training the masses). … all those people who are “set-in-their-ways”.

Spending is always going to see pushback. And you can’t make that decision. But if new ownership wants it done right, all you can do is recommend. If they want you to pursue some inquiries on consultant rates, then you can do that step… get some consultant quotes and budgetary proposals, etc. At the end of the day though… the edict needs to come from on-high. Ownership needs to REQUIRE what @utaylor mentioned. You need subject matter experts from each department to take ownership and drive training, implementation, acceptence. Without that, you’ll just be screaming into the void.

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Look in your system for BPMs on LaborSvc…

Here’s a thread demonstrating how to turn a shop warning into a hard stop… perhaps you already have something like this in place:

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