That's why I originally said that it depends on things like IP addressing
and where you locate your firewall. My firewall is in my router. I have an
Ascend router, with their SecureConnect Manager software, which can be
administered through the ethernet from a desktop. I inherited this
configuration when was hired on here. I don't know if I would have chosen
it had I had the opportunity, but, nevertheless, it works fine for us.

Someone else also responded regarding the fact that I have a block of ip
addresses. As I said, I inherited this configuration. But I have also
installed systems with similar configurations elsewhere. The reason is that
the T1 is shared between voice and data (a number of channels are split off
for voice, and a number for data using a CSU/DSU). A block of IP addresses
is included in the package from AT&T. I have found that it is possible to
save enough money on the voice side, to completely pay for the data side.
Of course this all depends on how much the origination fees are for the T1,
how much voice traffic you can channel over the T1, how many channels you
configure for data, and other factors. It is also very possible to spend
way too much money in this configuration.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: H. Dale Puls [mailto:DPuls@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:28 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

Brian,

Your system is wide open to outside hackers if you do not have some type of
firewall between your T1 and a simple network hub. Any published shares are
directly available to anyone who stumbles onto the IP address of any of your
computers. Each machine, if I understand your configuration correctly, is
effectively directly connected to the internet and could easily be
compromised.

H. Dale Puls

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davis [mailto:bdavis@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:45 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

Maybe I'm confused too, but in my network, the T1 goes to a network hub.
There is only one NIC in my server, which also goes to a network hub. It
seems to me that there are multiple options, depending on things like IP
addressing, and where you locate your firewall. I'm not an expert, but it
may be that two NICs would allow you to have internal IP addressing and a
single published address. I can't see any other reason for it, unless there
are security benefits.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> you only need one.
>
> "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
something
> > >
> > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > unix
> > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
an
> > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > >
> > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
also
> > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > >
> > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
most
> > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
about
> > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > >
> > > -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Wendy,

How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...

You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
<http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions

HTH,

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable
modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get.
ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company that
I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might
not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
anything else from this server (if possible).

Any ideas?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Run, don't walk, and buy the current issue of PC Magazine. It explains
all of the current options...

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco

"Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:

>
> I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection. Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get. ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company that I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1 server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize anything else from this server (if possible).
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We recently ran into the same choices when our dial-on-demand ISP (PSINet)
discontinued the service. The choices came down to DSL and T1. They told
us DSL was available and then tried for three months to work with Covad and
Qwest (old US West, our local carrier) to install it. In the end they gave
up because we are too far away from the phone company office. They started
by saying we could get 384K service and gave up when it was under 100K. DSL
is extremely sensitive to distance and the max rate degrades pretty quickly.
We are 17,200 feet from the switch center and DSL maxes out at about 18,000
feet. Find out the distance to the CO and figure on cutting your speed in
half every 4,000 or so feet (just a rough guide). They should have known
from the start we were too far away to get reasonable service (if at all).

On the bright side there are some real deals to be had with T1 and the
speeds are much faster than "real life" DSL speeds. There ought to be
enough competition in the Flint area to be very competitive with DSL .
Either way you are still very dependent on your local exchange carrier (LEC)
for the "last mile". We are still waiting on Qwest after 6 weeks for our T1
circuit (from @Link Networks). Be sure to watch the the bandwidth the
vendor commits to (maybe not the whole 1.5Mbps) and service level terms.
Also how they connect to the Internet (their bandwidth and redundancy,
etc...). Sorry, can't help with a web site for more info.

Good luck,
-Todd C.
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:09 PM
To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable
modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get.
ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company that
I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might
not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
anything else from this server (if possible).

Any ideas?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Wendy,
My personal recommendation if you have dial-up right now is DSL. For the
cost it is the next step. T1 is prohibitively expensive compared but DSL
also can be set up with a simple cable modem sharing device like the one
they were talking about last week on the list. The connection as far as you
are concerned is an external modem they provide that connects to a computer
(or this sharing device for connecting to several computers) via a network
cable (RJ45 connector). You will want a firewall and the sharing device has
some features for that in place already. If you use standard conventions
(192.168...) you can plug this device into your network, set it's internal
IP and then set the rest to look for it as a gateway (I think that's right).
Then, compared to what you have now...you are flying.
Someone with more experience with T1s will have to fill you in on them but
the DSL is reasonable price and very quick for someone used to a 56K.
Good luck.

PS I may know more about T1s in a few months as we may have to get one here.
We don't even have the DSL option at work but at home...look out world, I
have a cable modem. :)

Aaron Hoyt
System Administrator
Design Standards Corp.
PO Box 1620
Charlestown, NH 03603
Tel 603-826-7744
<mailto:Aaron@...>

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable
modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get.
ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company that
I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might
not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
anything else from this server (if possible).

Any ideas?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Right now I'm uploading our 2.2G database to epicor with DSL with
a sustained rate of 368Kbps. We're about 10000 feet away. That
costs us a mere $53/month. T1 is very expensive. Go with DSL if
you can get it.

Todd Caughey wrote:

>
> We recently ran into the same choices when our dial-on-demand ISP (PSINet)
> discontinued the service. The choices came down to DSL and T1. They told
> us DSL was available and then tried for three months to work with Covad and
> Qwest (old US West, our local carrier) to install it. In the end they gave
> up because we are too far away from the phone company office. They started
> by saying we could get 384K service and gave up when it was under 100K. DSL
> is extremely sensitive to distance and the max rate degrades pretty quickly.
> We are 17,200 feet from the switch center and DSL maxes out at about 18,000
> feet. Find out the distance to the CO and figure on cutting your speed in
> half every 4,000 or so feet (just a rough guide). They should have known
> from the start we were too far away to get reasonable service (if at all).
>
> On the bright side there are some real deals to be had with T1 and the
> speeds are much faster than "real life" DSL speeds. There ought to be
> enough competition in the Flint area to be very competitive with DSL .
> Either way you are still very dependent on your local exchange carrier (LEC)
> for the "last mile". We are still waiting on Qwest after 6 weeks for our T1
> circuit (from @Link Networks). Be sure to watch the the bandwidth the
> vendor commits to (maybe not the whole 1.5Mbps) and service level terms.
> Also how they connect to the Internet (their bandwidth and redundancy,
> etc...). Sorry, can't help with a web site for more info.

No, unfortunately we don't have multiple processors and NIC's. Some days
I'm surprised that our server is still up and running. The only good thing
we have about our 1 server right now is that I have mirrored hard drives to
it. It's a good server, it's just way too overloaded and they don't want me
to spend the time or money right now to put up another server. For now,
about 16-20 people would need Internet access.

But, I'll visit the sites and see what I can get out of them. Todd and
Aaron had some good incite to DSL. Wow! I just hope it's available to us.
It seems as if my choices are getting narrower. If ISDN is not available in
our area, does that mean that DSL wouldn't be available either?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Siebers <paul.siebers@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> Wendy,
>
> How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
> server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...
>
> You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
> http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
> <http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
> They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions
>
> HTH,
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
> To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
> Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless,
cable
> modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
> exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can
get.
> ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
that
> I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of
(might
> not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
> option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
> server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
> anything else from this server (if possible).
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) On Behalf Of Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:09 PM
To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection. Does
anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable
modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get
. ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
that I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (
might not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
anything else from this server (if possible).

Any ideas?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I have been researching the same things. It sounds as though you have
limited it down yourself.

Wireless - fastest, speeds up to 11mps depending on equipment and distance
from transmission point. Weather can impede or degrade performance but even
at 1 mps still fast. Always on. Need line of sight to the transmission
point.

DSL - If available offers the best cost/performance. Guaranteed connection.
Always on thus the need for a firewall.

T1 - Costly. Not really an option with the other options you have
available. You can buy only the bandwidth you would need. 64k, 128k, 256k,
etc. each jump costs $$$$

I would talk to the people using the wireless and their customers to find
out the satisfaction level. If raw speed is what you desire this would be
the ticket. Depending on price/performance and equipment costs. There
would be more equipment for this type of connection. An antenna would
probably need to be attached to the roof and cable ran to a hub attached to
your LAN.

DSL would be second, but a close second. I would say this will probably be
your best bet if the price is right. Our local provider will install DSL
for $2000 install and $200/month. While in Des Moines, IA you can get DSL
for 19.95/month through Qwest. A vast difference! DSL uses standard phone
lines for transmission and equipment costs about the same as the wireless.

I have been looking into the satellite systems such as www.starband.com and
www.directpc.com
Starband is a full two-way satellite connection meaning it uploads and
downloads over a 400-700k, while directpc is in the process of implementing
this two-way transmission (projected 2nd qtr of 2001). DirectPC downloads
only via sat and uploads via your 56k modem. Your ISP can stay the same and
just increase your download from 56k to a min of 400k up to 10 times as
fast. Unlimited time can be had for around $40/month and equipment costs of
$350 to share the connection with 10 users. Quite a difference from the DSL
option.

If I can provide more detailed info let me know.

Regards

Darren Mann

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:09 PM
> To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up
> connection. Does anyone know a good web site that will
> explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable modems, and ISDN for
> networks in plain English? I would like to know the exact
> setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we
> can get. ISDN and cable modems are not available in our
> area. The only company that I know of in my area for
> wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might not say
> much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be
> an option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1.
> We only have 1 server that runs everything on our network, so
> I'd rather not utilize anything else from this server (if possible).
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
>
>

Wendy... We supply about 50 users with internet connection
using DSL (384Kbps both directions) using an old 486 running
FreeBSD. We use freebsd's NAT and ipfw (firewall). All free!

http://www.freebsd.org

"Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:

>
> No, unfortunately we don't have multiple processors and NIC's. Some days
> I'm surprised that our server is still up and running. The only good thing
> we have about our 1 server right now is that I have mirrored hard drives to
> it. It's a good server, it's just way too overloaded and they don't want me
> to spend the time or money right now to put up another server. For now,
> about 16-20 people would need Internet access.
>
> But, I'll visit the sites and see what I can get out of them. Todd and
> Aaron had some good incite to DSL. Wow! I just hope it's available to us.
> It seems as if my choices are getting narrower. If ISDN is not available in
> our area, does that mean that DSL wouldn't be available either?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Siebers <paul.siebers@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> > Wendy,
> >
> > How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
> > server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...
> >
> > You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
> > http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
> > <http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
> > They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
> > To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> > Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> >
> > I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
> > Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless,
> cable
> > modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
> > exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can
> get.
> > ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
> that
> > I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of
> (might
> > not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
> > option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
> > server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
> > anything else from this server (if possible).
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> > 183:N/A=567135/R=2/*http://domains.yahoo.com>
> >
> >
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> >
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> > l/S=1700007183:N/A=567135/rand=603818048>
> >
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> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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An additional thought. Your server should not be an issue on this for pure
Internet access for the 16-20 people unless you will try to run Proxy Server
to control access. As noted you will likely need a firewall anyway and
many of them will handle all the access control issues. User browsers would
point to the firewall as their "gateway" on the LAN and bypass the server
altogether. Especially if the LAN is Switch based rather than a hub.

BTW - I just looked at the articles in PC Magazine and I agree very strongly
with Rick... get a copy quick while still at the newstands (if you don't
subscribe). Lots of very good info.

While I hate to pay $600/mo for full T1 when I pay $40 for the same speed at
home on cable modem without DSL we have no other choice at work. We tried
DSL first.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

No, unfortunately we don't have multiple processors and NIC's. Some days
I'm surprised that our server is still up and running. The only good thing
we have about our 1 server right now is that I have mirrored hard drives to
it. It's a good server, it's just way too overloaded and they don't want me
to spend the time or money right now to put up another server. For now,
about 16-20 people would need Internet access.

But, I'll visit the sites and see what I can get out of them. Todd and
Aaron had some good incite to DSL. Wow! I just hope it's available to us.
It seems as if my choices are getting narrower. If ISDN is not available in
our area, does that mean that DSL wouldn't be available either?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Siebers <paul.siebers@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> Wendy,
>
> How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
> server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...
>
> You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
> http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
<http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
> < http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
<http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html> >
> They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions
>
> HTH,
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
> To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
> Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless,
cable
> modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
> exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can
get.
> ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
that
> I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of
(might
> not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
> option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
> server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
> anything else from this server (if possible).
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmai
>
> l/S=1700007183:N/A=567135/rand=603818048>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wendy,

If you can't get IDSN then you most likely will not be able to get DSL/ADSL.
Another alternative might be wireless. I use DirecPC at home with Satellite
downloading
and dialup uploading. DirecPC Two Way is to be available this quarter which
will use Satellite
both ways. I pay $49 per month for the ISP and unlimited service. Business
use will be a little
higher but I don't know the pricing. You can check it out at
WWW.DIRECPC.COM <http://www.DIRECPC.COM> .
The equipment ran about $300. You can use Winproxy ( WWW.WINPROXY.COM
<http://www.WINPROXY.COM> ) with it to share
it with multiple users or a product called SatServ ( WWW.GETSATSERV.COM
<http://www.GETSATSERV.COM> ). Satserv has it's
own mail server in it. You should be able to use Microsoft Proxy Server
with it also.

I would wait until Two Way was available because the equipment is different.

There is also another satellite service available that is teamed up with
Dish Network. I don't know
much about it except that it has Two Way available now in some parts of the
country.

For my money, I would stick with DirecPC because it is part of Hughes
Network and very reliable.

Dave Cole
Reeder & Kline

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless, cable
modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can get.
ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company that
I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of (might
not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
anything else from this server (if possible).

Any ideas?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

I read the article you attached to this message. Very interesting however I
would like to share my experiences. I ordered DSL and choose the self
install option to save the $150 install fee. In two weeks I received a box
with a modem, two CD's and a single page of directions. In 15 minutes my
service was up and running beautifully. It has been ever since. It is
lightning fast. I also am now able to log onto my LAN from home via VPN
through my firewall and have installed Vantage on my home machine and I
connect to it at the same speed I am accustomed to at the office. Whole
project to get this all to work took less than 1 hour. My two cents...Life
is good with DSL.

Todd Hofert
Spartan Graphics, Inc.
(616)887-8243

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:25 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

With regards to DSL, check out this article....
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,41433,00.html
<http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,41433,00.html>
I keep hearing the same stories about DSL, although I haven't personally
worked with it. I run a couple of T-1's into my office (one for data, the
other for voice), and I have been very satisfied with it lately.
Implementing was not without glitches, but we have been very stable and fast
lately. Especially Citrix runs very well over T-1.

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Just for the record... We had no problems with our Verizon
install. Ordered it... they came out, connected the box...
I plugged it into my server... away we went.

Lydia Coffman wrote:

>
> Wendy:
>
> I too had an extremely bad experience with the installation of DSL...but it
> has certainly been worth it now that it is running. Twenty-five users, our
> average connection is about 324kbps, and even at lunch time (heaviest
> use-not work related, of course), it is fast and flawless. Downloads are a
> special treat-they take seconds or minutes instead of hours. We are at
> 17,750 feet from the PacBell vault, so we were marginal at the time of
> install. And it only costs us $50 a month. With any of them, though, be
> prepared for the agony of the install.
>
> Lydia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Konecny [mailto:jkonecn@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:23 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> Wendy... We supply about 50 users with internet connection
> using DSL (384Kbps both directions) using an old 486 running
> FreeBSD. We use freebsd's NAT and ipfw (firewall). All free!
>
> http://www.freebsd.org
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I visited the site and it was very informative. I have a question
though............is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it something
that your ISP has to provide us? It sounds like NAT would be a good
immediate solution to our expense of separate modems, lines, and accounts.
I realize it will not give us better speed, but it's a quick, simple
solution for now.

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Siebers <paul.siebers@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> Wendy,
>
> How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
> server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...
>
> You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
> http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
> <http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
> They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions
>
> HTH,
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
> To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
> Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless,
cable
> modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
> exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can
get.
> ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
that
> I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of
(might
> not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
> option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
> server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
> anything else from this server (if possible).
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmail/S=1700007
> 183:N/A=567135/R=1/*http://domains.yahoo.com>
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmail/S=1700007
> 183:N/A=567135/R=2/*http://domains.yahoo.com>
>
>
> www.
>
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmai
> l/S=1700007183:N/A=567135/rand=603818048>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

NAT is software. Although I suppose it could be implemented
in firmware. I can't stress enough how cheap it is to take
an old 486, load FreeBSD, configure it with 2 nics, enable
ipfw and nat. After you get it going you'll never have to
touch the box again if you don't want to. NAT is ultra
secure. Just try and ping 10.0.0.57. (my machine)
You can ping my freebsd box (real ip address) but nat makes
all my computers virtually invisible to the internet.

"Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:

>
> I visited the site and it was very informative. I have a question
> though............is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it something
> that your ISP has to provide us? It sounds like NAT would be a good
> immediate solution to our expense of separate modems, lines, and accounts.
> I realize it will not give us better speed, but it's a quick, simple
> solution for now.
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Siebers <paul.siebers@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> > Wendy,
> >
> > How many users are you talking about? And please tell me that your only
> > server is some kind of a monster with multiple processors and NIC's...
> >
> > You might want to take a look at 3COM's site:
> > http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html
> > <http://www.3com.com/smallbusiness/solutions/connect_internet_over.html>
> > They have a pretty good overview of hardware and connectivity solutions
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 1:09 PM
> > To: Vantage Yahoogroups list
> > Subject: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> >
> > I am researching other alternatives to the standard dial-up connection.
> > Does anyone know a good web site that will explain DSL, T1, wireless,
> cable
> > modems, and ISDN for networks in plain English? I would like to know the
> > exact setup of each of these. I am limited right now as to what we can
> get.
> > ISDN and cable modems are not available in our area. The only company
> that
> > I know of in my area for wireless is very difficult to get a hold of
> (might
> > not say much for their service). So, I don't think wireless will be an
> > option either. So, we are narrowed down to DSL and T1. We only have 1
> > server that runs everything on our network, so I'd rather not utilize
> > anything else from this server (if possible).
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmail/S=1700007
> > 183:N/A=567135/R=1/*http://domains.yahoo.com>
> >
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmail/S=1700007
> > 183:N/A=567135/R=2/*http://domains.yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > www.
> >
> >
> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=176325.1307935.2900315.1248727/D=egroupmai
> > l/S=1700007183:N/A=567135/rand=603818048>
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?

Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it something
>
> Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
unix
> systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab an
> old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> Router / NAT / Firewall box.
>
> Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are also
> running some striped down unix in their firmware.
>
> I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think most
> require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed about
> last week will work for many simple situations.
>
> -Wayne
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
you only need one.

"Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:

>
> I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
>
> Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> Network Administrator
> Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> wpursche@...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it something
> >
> > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> unix
> > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab an
> > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> >
> > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are also
> > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> >
> > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think most
> > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed about
> > last week will work for many simple situations.
> >
> > -Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> you only need one.
>
> "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
something
> > >
> > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > unix
> > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
an
> > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > >
> > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
also
> > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > >
> > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
most
> > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
about
> > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > >
> > > -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

Wendy -

It's a NIC NAT Firewall,
give the dog a bone.

I'll be in the office today - call me, we'll discuss security
till you're bored!

Calvin

----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) <wpursche@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the
hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT
computer,
> then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from
the
> NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
> router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So,
in
> that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
> other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
> other NIC, right?
>
> Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!
>
> ~Wendy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> > That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> > you only need one.
> >
> > "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> > >
> > > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > > Network Administrator
> > > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > > wpursche@...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> > >
> > > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
> something
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated
on
> > > unix
> > > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can
grab
> an
> > > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your
own
> > > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > > >
> > > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
> also
> > > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
> most
> > > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
> about
> > > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > > >
> > > > -Wayne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

Wendy,
one NIC is for your internal interface (LAN) the second NIC is for the
external (internet) interface... you internal interface is generally more
open, i.e. more services, etc... where your external interface you deny all
services except the ones you need and then restrict those on an as need
basis. The 'magic' occurs in IP mappings (translations) between those 2
nics.

side note: I had great success with IP port forwarding thru an ssh2 tunnel
to further secure my citrix connections lastnight... elegantly simple ;)

E. Lee Ingalls III
Commercial Tool & Die Inc.
(p)616.785.8100 (f)616.785.8120
eli3@... <mailto:eli3@...>

Fortitudine Vincimus: "by Endurance we conquer."

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

Calvin,

It's a NIC NAT Firewall,
give the dog a bone.

? eGads ... Is this what you sing to yourself in the shower ?

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: calvin [mailto:calvin@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:30 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

Wendy -

It's a NIC NAT Firewall,
give the dog a bone.

I'll be in the office today - call me, we'll discuss security
till you're bored!

Calvin

----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) <wpursche@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the
hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT
computer,
> then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from
the
> NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
> router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So,
in
> that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
> other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
> other NIC, right?
>
> Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!
>
> ~Wendy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
>
> > That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> > you only need one.
> >
> > "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> > >
> > > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > > Network Administrator
> > > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > > wpursche@...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> > >
> > > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
> something
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated
on
> > > unix
> > > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can
grab
> an
> > > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your
own
> > > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > > >
> > > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
> also
> > > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
> most
> > > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
> about
> > > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > > >
> > > > -Wayne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

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vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Maybe I'm confused too, but in my network, the T1 goes to a network hub.
There is only one NIC in my server, which also goes to a network hub. It
seems to me that there are multiple options, depending on things like IP
addressing, and where you locate your firewall. I'm not an expert, but it
may be that two NICs would allow you to have internal IP addressing and a
single published address. I can't see any other reason for it, unless there
are security benefits.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> you only need one.
>
> "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
something
> > >
> > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > unix
> > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
an
> > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > >
> > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
also
> > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > >
> > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
most
> > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
about
> > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > >
> > > -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

That way you don't need a whole block of real addresses ($$$) plus
all the internal ip's can't be seen on the internet.

Brian Davis wrote:

>
> Maybe I'm confused too, but in my network, the T1 goes to a network hub.
> There is only one NIC in my server, which also goes to a network hub. It
> seems to me that there are multiple options, depending on things like IP
> addressing, and where you locate your firewall. I'm not an expert, but it
> may be that two NICs would allow you to have internal IP addressing and a
> single published address. I can't see any other reason for it, unless there
> are security benefits.
>
> B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:09 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
> then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
> NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
> then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
> router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
> that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
> other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
> other NIC, right?
>
> Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!
>
> ~Wendy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
>
> > That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> > you only need one.
> >
> > "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> > >
> > > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > > Network Administrator
> > > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > > wpursche@...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> > >
> > > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
> something
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > > unix
> > > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
> an
> > > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > > >
> > > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
> also
> > > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
> most
> > > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
> about
> > > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > > >
> > > > -Wayne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

Your outside line usually comes straight into one of the NICs in the firewall PC and it connects to your network out through the second NIC to your hub.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davis [SMTP:bdavis@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 08:45 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

Maybe I'm confused too, but in my network, the T1 goes to a network hub.
There is only one NIC in my server, which also goes to a network hub. It
seems to me that there are multiple options, depending on things like IP
addressing, and where you locate your firewall. I'm not an expert, but it
may be that two NICs would allow you to have internal IP addressing and a
single published address. I can't see any other reason for it, unless there
are security benefits.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> you only need one.
>
> "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
something
> > >
> > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > unix
> > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
an
> > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > >
> > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
also
> > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > >
> > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
most
> > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
about
> > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > >
> > > -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian,

Your system is wide open to outside hackers if you do not have some type of
firewall between your T1 and a simple network hub. Any published shares are
directly available to anyone who stumbles onto the IP address of any of your
computers. Each machine, if I understand your configuration correctly, is
effectively directly connected to the internet and could easily be
compromised.

H. Dale Puls

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davis [mailto:bdavis@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:45 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

Maybe I'm confused too, but in my network, the T1 goes to a network hub.
There is only one NIC in my server, which also goes to a network hub. It
seems to me that there are multiple options, depending on things like IP
addressing, and where you locate your firewall. I'm not an expert, but it
may be that two NICs would allow you to have internal IP addressing and a
single published address. I can't see any other reason for it, unless there
are security benefits.

B

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen (Pursche) [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

I'm confused again..............for dial-up, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT computer, then to the modem in the NAT computer,
then dials-up, then goes out to the Internet through the phone line from the
NAT computer modem, right? For DSL & T1, the workstations go to the hub,
then to the NIC in the NAT/Firewall, then through another NIC out to the
router, then through a DSL/T1 connection out to the Internet, right? So, in
that scenario one NIC receives/sends info. from the workstations to the
other NIC, and the other NIC sends/receives info. from the Internet to the
other NIC, right?

Really, I'm not hopeless, it's just a new thing to me!

~Wendy

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Konecny <jkonecn@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives

> That was if you were going to use DSL or T1. For dialup
> you only need one.
>
> "Wendy Bowen (Pursche)" wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious, why would 2 NICs be needed for the box?
> >
> > Wendy Bowen (Pursche)
> > Network Administrator
> > Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
> > (810) 743-1600 ext.323
> > wpursche@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Cox <wmc@...>
> > To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vantage] (off topic)Internet Connection alternatives
> >
> > > At 03:01 PM 1/30/2001 , you wrote:
> > > >........is NAT (Network Address Translation) software? Or is it
> > > >something that you get with your router or LAN modem? Or is it
something
> > >
> > > Yes, and Yes. It's a software based protocol; probably originated on
> > unix
> > > systems, and is included with almost all of them today. You can grab
an
> > > old PC, throw in two NICs, load up FreeBSD or Linux, and roll your own
> > > Router / NAT / Firewall box.
> > >
> > > Nearly all IP routers have it too; and surprise... most of them are
also
> > > running some striped down unix in their firmware.
> > >
> > > I haven't messed with many cable and DSL "modems" yet, but I think
most
> > > require a separate router. The el'cheapo SMC Barricade I blabbed
about
> > > last week will work for many simple situations.
> > >
> > > -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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