[Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up

Check out your vantage.st file .... I'm very rusty on this little beast but
as I recollect your "B1" file is the index and the "D1" file is the data.
Putting each on a different hard drive should improve speed.

So:

C: = Op system plus Progress dir plus Vantage dir for 'Code"

D: = B1 file

E: = D1 file

Does this make sense for small DB's ??? I would expect a server setup to
be good for about 4-5 years ... what will your business look like then ???
I generally figure that if a new server / desktop is twice as fast as I
need in the first year ... it will be "Just fine" in the second year ... a
"Bit" slow in the third year ... a "Dog" in the forth year ... and a still
functioning "Boat Anchor" in the fifth year. Of course, your CFO / owners
generally believe that "Boat Anchor's" are still "Functioning". :-)

Ok, having said that with exceptionally little confidence in my voice would
one of the "up to date/current" progress "Experts" like to chime in with a
little more accurate description ? ( I'm feeling very 'Stupid' on this
topic today ... )

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Todd,
Interesting thing you said about the putting your indexes on their own drive
set. Does this gain much performance or is it just nice to have? Do you
know where I might find instructions for such a beast?
Thanks
Jeremy Leonard
IT MAnager
K-T Corporation



-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


My vote would be:

Dual processors - pick your speed
1 gig of RAM - just 'cause
6 drives mirrored - 2 for op-sys and Vantage/progress 'Code', 2 for
indexes, and 2 for data
1 gig Ethernet card feeding up to a 10/100/1000 switch
1 or 2 power supplies - Since I can't remember the last time a power supply
failed I'd only get one
on your RAID controller - make sure you turn off the write cache !!!

Make this a stand alone Vantage server with nothing else on it. Do not use
if for PDC/BDC, or print servers, or files, etc etc.

You are better off with 6 - 9 gig drives mirrored or RAID-10 then you are
with one 27 gig hard drive .... 3 arms grabbing data are faster then 1.

Also, go with at least 10,000 rpm SCSI drives ... use the 15,000 rpm drives
if you can afford them.

If you are in an area that provides 4 hr hardware support and can afford it
- buy it.

On the subject of tape backup equipment - before you buy - check the prices
on the tapes. DDS-3 tapes are about $ 10. DDS-4 tapes are about $ 20.
Some tapes go for up to $ 100 / each. I figure about 30-40 tapes per
server for rotation and history. ( 10 daily - 10 weekly - 6 monthly - Plus
permanent and working tapes such as Year End, Period End, or 'Auditor'
tapes. )

And .... buy DELL ... it's the cheapest tier-1 supplier. When it's all said
and done you get what you pay for.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:16 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


On our Vantage server (IBM Netfinitiy 5500) the "data" drive is really two
disks mirrored. We also have a warm spare for automatic roll over if either
side of the mirror fails. The RAID controller will build the warm spare
from the "good" side of the mirror set. I can then pop out the hot swapable
failed drive and replace it on the fly to become the new "warm" spare. I
did not mirror the system disk but now think I maybe should have. Also, in
the system are dual power supplies that share the load but either is big
enough to take over on own if one fails. These too are hot swapable.
Finally memory is in multiple modules in case one fails we can limp until
replacement (not hot swapable). Whole system is backed up with Veritas
BackupExec with emergency reload disks.

On topic of tape versus disk backup. I do copy Vantage backup to disk on
another server but nightly DLT tape goes off-site (my house) once a week as
well as nightly tapes going into a fireproof cabinet located in an
underground tunnel. Our auditors demanded off-site storage of backup.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


I believe RAID 1, mirrored drives is the preferred configuration from
progress.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


Patrick,

Will Vantage Run on Raid 1.

Dina

"Winter, Patrick" wrote:

> You are in a wonderful position. Hardware today such as disk drives and
RAM
> are very affordable for requirements of your size.
> My random thoughts for what they are worth:
> 1 processor. (megahertz is not the bottle neck anymore, go for price)
> 1 gb ram. (NT & Vantage take to RAM like a duck to water)
> 2 - 18gb Ultra SCSI drives, RAID 1
> 1 - 64mb PERC raid controller.
> (don't be afraid to spend more on drive speeds and controllers, it boils
> down to how fast you can get things from the hard drives to RAM, then
having
> enough RAM to keep it there.)
> 1 - 10/100/1000 NIC card. (You can get a 10/100/1000 8 port switch for
less
> than $500)
> redundant power supply, it's up to you how redundant you want to be.
> 20/40 DLT Tape Drive. (DLT are fast and friendly)
> Your in the $4000 to $6000 range. I favor Dell, but Brand Names is a
thread
> all by it's self.
>
> Patrick
>
> Remember: when you steal from once source, it's plagiarism; when you steal
> from several, it's research
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:47 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
>
> Patrick,
>
> We are thinking about combining my file server and Vantage together. We
> currently have 5 datacollection stations and 8 full users.
>
> Our database is is 232 megs. It has taken two years to get to that.
>
> Thanks
> Dina
>
> "Winter, Patrick" wrote:
>
> > How many Vantage users do you have?
> > What is the size of your database?
> > What is your database growth rate per month?
> > Will you be running anything else on this server?
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dina Hieber [mailto:dhieber@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I would like the groups suggestion - I was told today I could buy a new
> > server and Back Up Drive. Any suggestions for the server and for back
> > ups. I was told to buy something that would last and allow for growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Dina M. Hieber
> > Vamco International, Inc.
> > 555 Epsilon Drive
> > Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> > (412) 963-7100 - phone
> > (412) 963-9511 - fax
> >
> > www.vamcointernational.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
> have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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>
> --
> Dina M. Hieber
> Vamco International, Inc.
> 555 Epsilon Drive
> Pittsburgh, PA 15238
> (412) 963-7100 - phone
> (412) 963-9511 - fax
>
> www.vamcointernational.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
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> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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--
Dina M. Hieber
Vamco International, Inc.
555 Epsilon Drive
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
(412) 963-7100 - phone
(412) 963-9511 - fax

www.vamcointernational.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
At 01:48 PM 6/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>I'm not sure that the benefits of having indexes on a seperate drive
>>would be fully realized in a 13 user 115mb/year database. However, it
>>probably wouldn't hurt....
>
>What about a 50 user database?

It's not the number of users, so much as the amount of I/O that their
activity generates. Depends a lot on what they're doing.

I think there are only a handful of sites here with databases over a gig or
two. Even at that size, you can still get enough memory for not much $$ to
cache practically the entire DB! So I wouldn't worry too much about disk
performance. If you're approaching that 2GB limit, then yeah, maybe. But
the dream of being able to run entirely off a RamDisk is finally affordable!

-Wayne Cox
Twenty Three -- Information Technology Consulting
828-685-2338
Until solid state drives come down in price, there will always be a need for
every transaction to be written to disk. However, the data can be read from
the Cache, and queries are generally where the bottleneck lies.

I wish I knew more about the innards of the caching behaviour of progress
and how it relates to disk usage. Anyone?

Thaddeus

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:59 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


At 01:48 PM 6/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>I'm not sure that the benefits of having indexes on a seperate drive
>>would be fully realized in a 13 user 115mb/year database. However, it
>>probably wouldn't hurt....
>
>What about a 50 user database?

It's not the number of users, so much as the amount of I/O that their
activity generates. Depends a lot on what they're doing.

I think there are only a handful of sites here with databases over a gig or
two. Even at that size, you can still get enough memory for not much $$ to
cache practically the entire DB! So I wouldn't worry too much about disk
performance. If you're approaching that 2GB limit, then yeah, maybe. But
the dream of being able to run entirely off a RamDisk is finally
affordable!

-Wayne Cox
Twenty Three -- Information Technology Consulting
828-685-2338





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Ok, I am digging myself a little deeper now and risking looking stupid....
How can I force my database into RAM? I have 8GB of RAM and most of the
time 6GB of it sits there without being used. I have played with my
Progress settings but it still seems like I have frequent disk activity. I
did go to the expense of putting just the DB on its on set of Cheetah 15K
drives at RAID 10. Our system isn't slow but I would love to use what we do
have.
Thanks
Jeremy


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc20@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:59 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [Off Topic] - New Server AND Back Up


At 01:48 PM 6/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>I'm not sure that the benefits of having indexes on a seperate drive
>>would be fully realized in a 13 user 115mb/year database. However, it
>>probably wouldn't hurt....
>
>What about a 50 user database?

It's not the number of users, so much as the amount of I/O that their
activity generates. Depends a lot on what they're doing.

I think there are only a handful of sites here with databases over a gig or
two. Even at that size, you can still get enough memory for not much $$ to
cache practically the entire DB! So I wouldn't worry too much about disk
performance. If you're approaching that 2GB limit, then yeah, maybe. But
the dream of being able to run entirely off a RamDisk is finally
affordable!

-Wayne Cox
Twenty Three -- Information Technology Consulting
828-685-2338





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/