I have recently installed 5 clients running Win 2000 (which is very much like a cross between 98 & NT) and have had zero problems running 3.0 right along side 20 other Win 95 & 98 machines.

It is very complex - you'll need time and books to figure some things out. But it is pretty exciting O/S, as far as O/S's go...

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco

Brian Davis wrote:

> Specifically, since this group is all about Vantage, I wonder if the
> original question was aimed at compatibility issues between Win2K and
> Vantage. To that point, I have a couple of stations running both with no
> problems. However, I am on 4.0 of Vantage, and that may make some
> difference that I might not be aware of. Anyone running Win2K stations with
> Vantage 3 or 5 might chime in with some input
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Konecny [mailto:jkonecn@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:18 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?
>
> win2k runs great! I'll never buy another pc without it.
>
> Marty Kuphall wrote:
> >
> > The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
> > Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
> > many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
> > sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Marty Kuphall
> > Ultra Tool & Mfg.
> >
> >
> > To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
> linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't make your first Win2000Pro PC your Bosses. If you run older programs
(DOS, etc...) they may have problems you have to track down. Plug & Play
works great but things like 2 year old HP scanners may need new drivers. You
will also have to configure security and access on the client. This is a big
change if your using Win98. You may want to play with Win2000Pro for a
couple of months before giving it to users. I noticed Dell doesn't give you
the OS installation CD and more and the Microsoft License Code only worked
on that PC that it came with. I purchased a copy of Win2000Pro off the shelf
just to get a CD. If appears Microsoft is changing the licensing to live and
die with the PC it was sold with. You will find Win2000Pro is much better
for a business environment but give yourself time and don't every give a
newly release OS to your boss unless he/she is a computer geek.

For what its worth.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.

Thanks,

Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Patrick,

I just spent 4 hrs at a MS licensing seminar in Chicago 2 weeks ago.

Any MS software purchased with a PC is only valid ON that PC. The licenses
are NOT transferable. When the PC dies so does the licensing. That, in
fact, has always been the MS licensing position. Understand that even MS
suggests that you do not buy Office with a PC for that very reason. You are
much better off purchasing MS software under a open licensing agreement
because (1) the licenses can be used on any PC you own (2) the licenses are
down gradable.

Also, ghosting is also illegal. If you purchase 10 PC's at one time from
one vendor that are EXACTLY the same you cannot upload one image to a ghost
server and then splash it out to all 10 PC's. If you are audited each PC
MUST show the license codes that were purchased with each PC. MS is very
anal about this.

Another piece of trivia is that "Proof" of ownership requires at the very
least a copy of the original invoice for the PC or software package. MS
suggests that your proof of ownership bundle include: A copy of the
original PO, the packing list, a copy of the invoice, the license page from
the box, and the license / upc symbols from the box.

And then my personal favorite --- If you have a PC on your desk at work and
a PC at home with Office on both you need TWO licenses. If you have a PC on
your desk at work and a LAPTOP at home with Office on both you only need ONE
license. I talked to the MS rep after the meeting and suggested to him that
this was a really stupid and he agreed. His words of wisdom - Buy two
copies now even if you have a laptop at home because at some point in the
future that licensing oddity would be corrected and unless you keep track
you might not know it.

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

It's a wonderful thing ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Don't make your first Win2000Pro PC your Bosses. If you run older programs
(DOS, etc...) they may have problems you have to track down. Plug & Play
works great but things like 2 year old HP scanners may need new drivers. You
will also have to configure security and access on the client. This is a big
change if your using Win98. You may want to play with Win2000Pro for a
couple of months before giving it to users. I noticed Dell doesn't give you
the OS installation CD and more and the Microsoft License Code only worked
on that PC that it came with. I purchased a copy of Win2000Pro off the shelf
just to get a CD. If appears Microsoft is changing the licensing to live and
die with the PC it was sold with. You will find Win2000Pro is much better
for a business environment but give yourself time and don't every give a
newly release OS to your boss unless he/she is a computer geek.

For what its worth.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.

Thanks,

Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

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To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Todd,

Seems strange, when traded in my car in last year for a van the proof of
owner ship was a title. I did not need a title, original invoice, canceled
check, sticker from the window, original paper floor mats, copy of the VIN,
and a picture of me taking the keys from the original salesman to prove
ownership.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Patrick,

I just spent 4 hrs at a MS licensing seminar in Chicago 2 weeks ago.

Any MS software purchased with a PC is only valid ON that PC. The licenses
are NOT transferable. When the PC dies so does the licensing. That, in
fact, has always been the MS licensing position. Understand that even MS
suggests that you do not buy Office with a PC for that very reason. You are
much better off purchasing MS software under a open licensing agreement
because (1) the licenses can be used on any PC you own (2) the licenses are
down gradable.

Also, ghosting is also illegal. If you purchase 10 PC's at one time from
one vendor that are EXACTLY the same you cannot upload one image to a ghost
server and then splash it out to all 10 PC's. If you are audited each PC
MUST show the license codes that were purchased with each PC. MS is very
anal about this.

Another piece of trivia is that "Proof" of ownership requires at the very
least a copy of the original invoice for the PC or software package. MS
suggests that your proof of ownership bundle include: A copy of the
original PO, the packing list, a copy of the invoice, the license page from
the box, and the license / upc symbols from the box.

And then my personal favorite --- If you have a PC on your desk at work and
a PC at home with Office on both you need TWO licenses. If you have a PC on
your desk at work and a LAPTOP at home with Office on both you only need ONE
license. I talked to the MS rep after the meeting and suggested to him that
this was a really stupid and he agreed. His words of wisdom - Buy two
copies now even if you have a laptop at home because at some point in the
future that licensing oddity would be corrected and unless you keep track
you might not know it.

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

It's a wonderful thing ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Don't make your first Win2000Pro PC your Bosses. If you run older programs
(DOS, etc...) they may have problems you have to track down. Plug & Play
works great but things like 2 year old HP scanners may need new drivers. You
will also have to configure security and access on the client. This is a big
change if your using Win98. You may want to play with Win2000Pro for a
couple of months before giving it to users. I noticed Dell doesn't give you
the OS installation CD and more and the Microsoft License Code only worked
on that PC that it came with. I purchased a copy of Win2000Pro off the shelf
just to get a CD. If appears Microsoft is changing the licensing to live and
die with the PC it was sold with. You will find Win2000Pro is much better
for a business environment but give yourself time and don't every give a
newly release OS to your boss unless he/she is a computer geek.

For what its worth.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.

Thanks,

Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

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To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I am very glad we switched to open licensing last year and stopped buying
software with the PC. When we upgrade to W2K on the clients it will
definitely be via Open License in order to get transferable licenses. Now
if I could just convince Gateway ot Dell to sell PCs w/o OS otherwise I will
be building my own and buying OS ala carte via OL . Documentation-wise I
am going to stand on all those green certificates and the certificate of
authenticity key code labels I have saved to document ownership of the
license. The burden of proof would be on MS as plaintif and I doubt any
court would dismiss reasonable proof, especially if supplied by MS, as
documentaiton of compliance. As for moving target, I doubt MS can document
all of its licensing policies right now let alone at a given point in the
past when a purchase was made and the "agreement" set.

-Todd C.
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Patrick,

I just spent 4 hrs at a MS licensing seminar in Chicago 2 weeks ago.

Any MS software purchased with a PC is only valid ON that PC. The licenses
are NOT transferable. When the PC dies so does the licensing. That, in
fact, has always been the MS licensing position. Understand that even MS
suggests that you do not buy Office with a PC for that very reason. You are
much better off purchasing MS software under a open licensing agreement
because (1) the licenses can be used on any PC you own (2) the licenses are
down gradable.

Also, ghosting is also illegal. If you purchase 10 PC's at one time from
one vendor that are EXACTLY the same you cannot upload one image to a ghost
server and then splash it out to all 10 PC's. If you are audited each PC
MUST show the license codes that were purchased with each PC. MS is very
anal about this.

Another piece of trivia is that "Proof" of ownership requires at the very
least a copy of the original invoice for the PC or software package. MS
suggests that your proof of ownership bundle include: A copy of the
original PO, the packing list, a copy of the invoice, the license page from
the box, and the license / upc symbols from the box.

And then my personal favorite --- If you have a PC on your desk at work and
a PC at home with Office on both you need TWO licenses. If you have a PC on
your desk at work and a LAPTOP at home with Office on both you only need ONE
license. I talked to the MS rep after the meeting and suggested to him that
this was a really stupid and he agreed. His words of wisdom - Buy two
copies now even if you have a laptop at home because at some point in the
future that licensing oddity would be corrected and unless you keep track
you might not know it.

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

It's a wonderful thing ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Don't make your first Win2000Pro PC your Bosses. If you run older programs
(DOS, etc...) they may have problems you have to track down. Plug & Play
works great but things like 2 year old HP scanners may need new drivers. You
will also have to configure security and access on the client. This is a big
change if your using Win98. You may want to play with Win2000Pro for a
couple of months before giving it to users. I noticed Dell doesn't give you
the OS installation CD and more and the Microsoft License Code only worked
on that PC that it came with. I purchased a copy of Win2000Pro off the shelf
just to get a CD. If appears Microsoft is changing the licensing to live and
die with the PC it was sold with. You will find Win2000Pro is much better
for a business environment but give yourself time and don't every give a
newly release OS to your boss unless he/she is a computer geek.

For what its worth.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.

Thanks,

Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
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To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patrick.......Your state must be a little more lenient.

Regards,

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:03 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Todd,

Seems strange, when traded in my car in last year for a van the proof of
owner ship was a title. I did not need a title, original invoice,
canceled
check, sticker from the window, original paper floor mats, copy of the
VIN,
and a picture of me taking the keys from the original salesman to prove
ownership.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Patrick,

I just spent 4 hrs at a MS licensing seminar in Chicago 2 weeks ago.

Any MS software purchased with a PC is only valid ON that PC. The
licenses
are NOT transferable. When the PC dies so does the licensing. That,
in
fact, has always been the MS licensing position. Understand that even
MS
suggests that you do not buy Office with a PC for that very reason. You
are
much better off purchasing MS software under a open licensing agreement
because (1) the licenses can be used on any PC you own (2) the licenses
are
down gradable.

Also, ghosting is also illegal. If you purchase 10 PC's at one time
from
one vendor that are EXACTLY the same you cannot upload one image to a
ghost
server and then splash it out to all 10 PC's. If you are audited each
PC
MUST show the license codes that were purchased with each PC. MS is
very
anal about this.

Another piece of trivia is that "Proof" of ownership requires at the
very
least a copy of the original invoice for the PC or software package. MS
suggests that your proof of ownership bundle include: A copy of the
original PO, the packing list, a copy of the invoice, the license page
from
the box, and the license / upc symbols from the box.

And then my personal favorite --- If you have a PC on your desk at work
and
a PC at home with Office on both you need TWO licenses. If you have a
PC on
your desk at work and a LAPTOP at home with Office on both you only need
ONE
license. I talked to the MS rep after the meeting and suggested to him
that
this was a really stupid and he agreed. His words of wisdom - Buy two
copies now even if you have a laptop at home because at some point in
the
future that licensing oddity would be corrected and unless you keep
track
you might not know it.

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

It's a wonderful thing ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Winter, Patrick [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Don't make your first Win2000Pro PC your Bosses. If you run older
programs
(DOS, etc...) they may have problems you have to track down. Plug & Play
works great but things like 2 year old HP scanners may need new drivers.
You
will also have to configure security and access on the client. This is a
big
change if your using Win98. You may want to play with Win2000Pro for a
couple of months before giving it to users. I noticed Dell doesn't give
you
the OS installation CD and more and the Microsoft License Code only
worked
on that PC that it came with. I purchased a copy of Win2000Pro off the
shelf
just to get a CD. If appears Microsoft is changing the licensing to live
and
die with the PC it was sold with. You will find Win2000Pro is much
better
for a business environment but give yourself time and don't every give a
newly release OS to your boss unless he/she is a computer geek.

For what its worth.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Kuphall [mailto:marty.kuphall@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.

Thanks,

Marty Kuphall
Ultra Tool & Mfg.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=162801.1342103.2934627.1280005/D=egroupmail/S=170
0007
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I have a Dell Optiplex GX110 running Windows 2000. I am also running 4.0
and 5.0. Vantage runs extremely slow for me. It takes 5 minutes to log on
and I wait on some screens for 30 seconds. 5.0 actually runs faster for me
than 4.0. I have not had time to try and figure out what the problem is so
I have been suffering.

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 05:28:39 -0500
From: Rick Gors <rgors@...>
Subject: Re: Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

I have recently installed 5 clients running Win 2000 (which is very much
like a cross between 98 & NT) and have had zero problems running 3.0 right
along side 20 other Win 95 & 98 machines.

It is very complex - you'll need time and books to figure some things out.
But it is pretty exciting O/S, as far as O/S's go...

Rick Gors
MR/MMIS
Osco

Brian Davis wrote:

> Specifically, since this group is all about Vantage, I wonder if the
> original question was aimed at compatibility issues between Win2K and
> Vantage. To that point, I have a couple of stations running both with no
> problems. However, I am on 4.0 of Vantage, and that may make some
> difference that I might not be aware of. Anyone running Win2K stations

with

> Vantage 3 or 5 might chime in with some input
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Konecny [mailto:jkonecn@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:18 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?
>
> win2k runs great! I'll never buy another pc without it.
>
> Marty Kuphall wrote:
> >
> > The boss wants a new PC. It appears Dell no longer offers NT as an OS.
> > Any problems going to Windows 2000? I think I have seen messages saying
> > many of you have not had any problems with it but I would like to be
> > sure there are no gotcha's if we start down that path.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Marty Kuphall
> > Ultra Tool & Mfg.

I have just received a letter from Microsoft Canada's Legal department
asking me to provide them with the number of licenses that I have. How many
are legal and how many are not. What are my plans to (timeframe) for
legalizing all of my licenses. Not sure if I should reply to this letter,
however am concerned that no response = here's a company that SHOULD be
audited.

Bob Goss
BC Instruments

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Two ways this can happen.

(1) Microsoft has a program going on now that audits companies. What they
are doing is taking a few major markets at a time, Chicago being one, and
they are sending out letters from a local law firm requesting that companies
audit all MS software installed on their machines. They are then asked to
fill out a form stating how many copies are installed, how many have been
purchased, and how many licenses they are short. If you are short licenses
you can go buy them PDQ. The law firm requests that you then return the
signed audit sheet along with copies of all related invoices to them. If
you are clean they will send you back a letter saying thanks, if not ....
Note that they are targeting companies between 50 and 500 employees for
these mass mailings. Implied in this process is that if you correct any
deficiencies on a voluntary basis they will blink and say thanks for
currently being legal.

(2) Any pissed off employee can goto www.bsa.org <http://www.bsa.org> ----
The "Business Software Alliance" and report companies that are not legal on
their software. The BSA can then get a warrant and show up on your
doorstep and demand to audit all of your pc's for any and all packages.
Fines start at $ 25,000 per copy of bootleg software. Some companies have
been forced into taking out full page adds in major papers admitting what
they've done and the fines they've paid as part of the settlement. Note
that the BSA is a self-funding organization. Some of the money collected is
returned to the software companies that are included in the alliance and the
rest is used for expanding the group. They have been very profitable of
late ...

Can you tell I just spent 4 hrs in a seminar about licensing 2 weeks ago ?

Working at McDonalds is looking better all the time ...

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you don't respond to the first letter you will get a 2nd nasty gram with
a stronger request for you to comply.

Failure to respond will eventually end up in an on-site audit.

Either way I'd suggest you get it together .... NOW!

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Goss [mailto:bobg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:34 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

I have just received a letter from Microsoft Canada's Legal department
asking me to provide them with the number of licenses that I have. How many
are legal and how many are not. What are my plans to (timeframe) for
legalizing all of my licenses. Not sure if I should reply to this letter,
however am concerned that no response = here's a company that SHOULD be
audited.

Bob Goss
BC Instruments

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Todd......Guess I should have taken a more responsible approach to
maintaining a complete list of licenses. I purchase 35 copies of Microsoft
Office with an open license agreement. My concern comes from all of the
Dell Pc's I bought in the past 2 years that came equipped with MS Office
2000 Small business edition. Do I need to have all of the actual licenses
or will copies of invoices be sufficient? Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

If you don't respond to the first letter you will get a 2nd nasty gram with
a stronger request for you to comply.

Failure to respond will eventually end up in an on-site audit.

Either way I'd suggest you get it together .... NOW!

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Goss [mailto:bobg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:34 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

I have just received a letter from Microsoft Canada's Legal department
asking me to provide them with the number of licenses that I have. How many
are legal and how many are not. What are my plans to (timeframe) for
legalizing all of my licenses. Not sure if I should reply to this letter,
however am concerned that no response = here's a company that SHOULD be
audited.

Bob Goss
BC Instruments

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

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To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

We have clients in several states. For the record they have targeted many
more areas. Cleveland, Most of California, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Atlanta, are
ones that I know of off the top of my head. More people have received the
letters than not. Many have mistakenly thrown the letter away and say they
are not going to respond. Believe me it is much easier for you to get legal
if you are not.

I am also aware of at least one company that was fined $100,000.00 which may
force them into bankruptcy. Disgruntled employees are turning in companies
and Microsoft is the spearhead but there are other software companies
involved.

Keith E. Taylor
Vice President
LBSi
Business Systems Consultants (Progress based ERP packages)
216/476-1416 ext 26
keith@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 4:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

If you don't respond to the first letter you will get a 2nd nasty gram
with
a stronger request for you to comply.

Failure to respond will eventually end up in an on-site audit.

Either way I'd suggest you get it together .... NOW!

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Goss [mailto:bobg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:34 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

I have just received a letter from Microsoft Canada's Legal department
asking me to provide them with the number of licenses that I have. How
many
are legal and how many are not. What are my plans to (timeframe) for
legalizing all of my licenses. Not sure if I should reply to this
letter,
however am concerned that no response = here's a company that SHOULD be
audited.

Bob Goss
BC Instruments

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

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What we were told is that copies of the invoices are ok. Note, however,
that the PC's that you purchased MS-office small business edition on should
have just that. The licenses you purchased with a PC can NOT be transferred
to another PC. On the other hand the 35 licenses you purchased on the open
license agreement can be used on any of your PC's --- including as a upgrade
to what you purchased with the PC's. IE. Overlaying MS-Off small bus-ed
with a copy of MS-Off Professional.

Are you also legal on your NT server CAL's ? Your Exchange Server CAL's ?
Is license manager on your NT servers up to date ?

I have a database that I use to track software. One line per version of
each package. If I purchased a package and then 2 additional upgrades over
time I have 3 lines in the DB. Currently I have 162 lines in that table
representing about 60 different PC packages. My "Where used" table that
lists one line for each package installed on each PC contains 924 lines. We
only have 80 active PC's.

Don't forget the odd duck stuff. I just found a "Shareware" package in my
engineering group on 3 PC's. It's free to individuals so the engineers
figured they were ok to download it and use it. ( Yes, I've been trying to
break that habit for years ... ) It's a utility from a company in Germany
that allows you to search for words inside of documents across a directory.
If you read the fine print on the license agreement, which I did as part of
my internal audit, you will find that it's free for individuals but NOT for
companies. You can purchase it on the web for 50 DM ( marks ) --- I'm
still trying to figure out what that is in dollars. In the meantime I have
un-installed it from the 3 PC's.

Closer to home, read the license agreement with V 5.0 of Vantage. You are
ONLY allowed to have -2- backup copies of the software. We have 10 tapes in
a daily rotation, 8 tapes in quarterly rotation, and 5 tapes in a yearly
archive. When I backup my servers I do a full image backup. That gives me
23 tapes on the shelf and with V 5.0 I will be violating EPICOR's license
agreement. So far I have NOT installed V 5.0 and before I do I will have to
get a signed letter from EPICOR rescinding that clause or I will not be able
to install the release. Even if EPICOR tells you to ignore that clause on
the V5.0 license agreement if the BSA does a full audit on you they can
still pop you for a $ 25,000 fine --- theoretically for each tape that is in
violation. In my case that would be 21 x $ 25,000 .....

Yes, this is insane ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Goss [mailto:bobg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:48 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Thanks Todd......Guess I should have taken a more responsible approach to
maintaining a complete list of licenses. I purchase 35 copies of Microsoft
Office with an open license agreement. My concern comes from all of the
Dell Pc's I bought in the past 2 years that came equipped with MS Office
2000 Small business edition. Do I need to have all of the actual licenses
or will copies of invoices be sufficient? Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

If you don't respond to the first letter you will get a 2nd nasty gram with
a stronger request for you to comply.

Failure to respond will eventually end up in an on-site audit.

Either way I'd suggest you get it together .... NOW!

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Goss [mailto:bobg@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 3:34 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

I have just received a letter from Microsoft Canada's Legal department
asking me to provide them with the number of licenses that I have. How many
are legal and how many are not. What are my plans to (timeframe) for
legalizing all of my licenses. Not sure if I should reply to this letter,
however am concerned that no response = here's a company that SHOULD be
audited.

Bob Goss
BC Instruments

-----Original Message-----
From: James Martin Jr. [mailto:jmartin@...]
Sent: March 22, 2001 4:24 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

i was kind of wondering too if anyone on the list has ever been audited?

-----Original Message-----
From: De Anna Godfrey [mailto:dgodfrey@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

Hi, I guess I am ignorant but how does a software audit work?

Thanks,

De Anna Godfrey
V.P. of Business Operations
McNeal Enterprises, Inc.
408.922.7290 x14
fax 408.922.0728

Which of course leads us to the fact the software licensing is a moving
target and unless you have a full time lawyer on staff constantly
researching EVERY package you own the odds are you will never pass a
software audit.

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.> > Note: You must have
already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >

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Rick,

Check out Technet documents "Q153140" and "Q194065"

Both describe how to reset the License files under NT-Server.

Mind you, I followed the instructions on my primary server and still had
the same problem of old licenses still showing. One of the documents
describes using some bat files to flash all PDC and BDC controllers at the
same time across the LAN/WAN. I haven't tried that yet but suspect it may
be the answer.

One of the strange oddities that I never knew was the CALs for NT-Server
reference people signing on to PC's, not just the PC's themselves. So if 5
people are sharing one PC you end up consuming 5 CAL's even though the 5
people are not on the PC at the same time. Somewhere within MS is a lawyer
or bean counter that thinks this is logical. I don't.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Spriggle [mailto:rspriggle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Off Topic-W2K A-OK?

> Are you also legal on your NT server CAL's ? Your Exchange
> Server CAL's ?
> Is license manager on your NT servers up to date ?

This brings up a questions I've had for a long, long time. We use a Per
Seat licensing scheme because we have 3 NT servers. I have approximately
110 CALs for 74 computers and about 90 user accounts. My problem is about
every month I get a message in the event log that NT is out of licenses. I
go in to the license manager and it shows accounts and users that have been
deleted 3 years ago as current. I revoke all the licenses and next month
they are all back again. I also show accesses from our corporate WAN, which
has been disconnected since September 2000. What is going on and how can I
get rid of them for good?

Incidentally, for purposes of distributing this thread to management without
forwarding 20 messages I have combined it all into a Word 2000 document
(yes, the version of Office 2000 SBE that came on my computer and 100% legal
... I think???). If anybody is interested in a copy, e-mail me off the list
and I will send it out or post it to the files section when the thread ends.

Rick

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