[OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue

Interesting observation Shirley. Musicians deserve compensation for their
work, just like everyone else. But the performing rights organizations work
like other corporate giants - only making the "already rich" get richer. I
doubt the average musician gets much out of them. And the Recording
Industry Association of America is nothing more than a shakedown for artists
and listeners alike. Instead of embracing the new music distribution
technologies, and working in that realm, they're forcing legislation to keep
the record companies' pockets lined. FYI, Janis Ian's column in this
month's "Performing Songwriter" magazine does a good job of telling it like
it is.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 6:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


Another hit from greedy media companies, no wonder so much media is pirated.
Consumers get tired of having their pockets picked. Another media note, a
California senator has presented a bill making it legal for media companies
to hack Peer to Peer networks. Me thinks this would unleash a response
from hackers that would be unprecedented. While this is not directly
related to Vantage, such a cyberwar could affect all of us.

Shirley




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Todd,

I have heard of the same thing. I don't have credible knowledge about it, but I have heard that a company can be held responsible for "re-broadcast" music.

We use a company that customizes our "hold" messages for us. They record a nice little ditty with our name splashed around in it. They record it on a tape and we have an automated box that hooks into our current phone system where the tape is played. It costs us about $660 per year.

Wendy Bowen
Network Adminstrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There are also regulation for playing music through over head speakers
hooked up to a radio in a retail shop. My friend who owns a Hallmark shop
was notified a couple of years ago that she was going to be fined for
playing the radio. And the fines are pretty steep. So much pure song, per
hour, per artist. It was unbelievable. Other people have told her since,
that a group will come into town and they hit a group of businesses. But
they did mention the radio on hold, you can also be fined. There are quite a
few companies out there that do music. I think one company is "Message on
Hold".

Debbie Fulgenzi
Debron Industrial Electronics

-------Original Message-------

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 29, 2002 03:38:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue

Todd,

I have heard of the same thing. I don't have credible knowledge about it,
but I have heard that a company can be held responsible for "re-broadcast"
music.

We use a company that customizes our "hold" messages for us. They record a
nice little ditty with our name splashed around in it. They record it on a
tape and we have an automated box that hooks into our current phone system
where the tape is played. It costs us about $660 per year.

Wendy Bowen
Network Adminstrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to
our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station
and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added
that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like
the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and
what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still
an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Todd,
We purchased a small box that holds digital music and messages that works
well. Total cost is right around $300.
Check out the link below for more info:
http://www.hellodirect.com/catalog/Product.jhtml?CATID=2006&PRODID=12789
We added a couple extra memory sticks at about $50 each. Each stick holds
about 8 minutes of music. There is also another option that plays CDs.
======================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 2:06 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to
our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station
and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added
that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like
the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and
what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still
an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ASCAP, BMI and SESAC take this stuff seriously. That's their primary
purpose - copyright enforcement. But here's a thought.

Get one of your employees who is also an amateur musician to record
something original for you that they wrote specifically for this. If they
are strictly amateur, they probably aren't a member of ASCAP, BMI or SESAC,
and that would take them out of the equation. Your aspiring musician would
probably welcome the opportunity. And if you did pay them, it probably
wouldn't have to be much. If they don't belong to any of these performing
rights groups, then those groups should have no say in the matter.

Gary Polvinale
Denton ATD

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


Todd,

I have heard of the same thing. I don't have credible knowledge about it,
but I have heard that a company can be held responsible for "re-broadcast"
music.

We use a company that customizes our "hold" messages for us. They record a
nice little ditty with our name splashed around in it. They record it on a
tape and we have an automated box that hooks into our current phone system
where the tape is played. It costs us about $660 per year.

Wendy Bowen
Network Adminstrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to
our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station
and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added
that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like
the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and
what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still
an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Thanks All! One fly in the ointment is that the same music is available to
the speaker on any phone and a lot of employees listen to the Soft Oldies
station management has selected. Taking this off might lead to radios
playing a lot of different stations. So we may have to cave and pay ASCAP.

Thanks again for the opinions and ideas,
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Polvinale [mailto:garyp@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:37 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


ASCAP, BMI and SESAC take this stuff seriously. That's their primary
purpose - copyright enforcement. But here's a thought.

Get one of your employees who is also an amateur musician to record
something original for you that they wrote specifically for this. If they
are strictly amateur, they probably aren't a member of ASCAP, BMI or SESAC,
and that would take them out of the equation. Your aspiring musician would
probably welcome the opportunity. And if you did pay them, it probably
wouldn't have to be much. If they don't belong to any of these performing
rights groups, then those groups should have no say in the matter.

Gary Polvinale
Denton ATD

-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Bowen [mailto:wpursche@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


Todd,

I have heard of the same thing. I don't have credible knowledge about it,
but I have heard that a company can be held responsible for "re-broadcast"
music.

We use a company that customizes our "hold" messages for us. They record a
nice little ditty with our name splashed around in it. They record it on a
tape and we have an automated box that hooks into our current phone system
where the tape is played. It costs us about $660 per year.

Wendy Bowen
Network Adminstrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] ASCAP - Music-on-hold issue


I get to handle anything remotely technical, even the radio attached to
our
phone system. Apparently ASCAP has found out and wants a license fee to
"re-broadcast" music. I had thought that since it was a radio a station
and
we play the commercials they were getting paid by the radio station but
apparently there is a clause in the copyright laws that congress added
that
makes music-on-hold a "secondary performance."

Just wondering if anyone else has been threatened by ASCAP (sort of like
the
BSA) and if ASCAP actually followed through. Also, if you have tried
alternatives like an "all news" station or canned "on-hold" music (and
what
this cost) ? We're talking about $191 a year so it's not huge but still
an
unexpected expense.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Another hit from greedy media companies, no wonder so much media is pirated.
Consumers get tired of having their pockets picked. Another media note, a
California senator has presented a bill making it legal for media companies
to hack Peer to Peer networks. Me thinks this would unleash a response
from hackers that would be unprecedented. While this is not directly
related to Vantage, such a cyberwar could affect all of us.

Shirley




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]