[OT] New Software Suggestions

Michael,

Here's one more website that might be of interest to you:
http://www.manufacturingsystems.com/software_finder/
<http://www.manufacturingsystems.com/software_finder/> . In fact, a
subscription to the hard copy MSI might be worthwhile to you, too.
Interestingly, if you use the software finder and specify ERP for the
product category and order-driven manufacturing for the vertical industry
focus, Epicor is NOT included in the query results.

Regards,
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 2:31 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions

In selecting Vantage we used a product from CTS Guides called (then) "Guide
to PC-Based Software for the Manufacturing Industry". I don't recall the
price (couple grand I think) but it was very comprehensive. Software based
system that compares a couple dozen (then) major vendors in the mid-market
space. You survey users and fill out needs rankings on about a thousand
questions (seriously, at least 1,000) and it crunches your needs compared to
responses from real users of the systems to find the best matches. Very
thorough and forces you into very deep look at the needs of your
organization. I liked it because of the annual surveys they do to keep the
user feedback part as real as possible. Their web site:
http://www.ctsguides.com/default.asp <http://www.ctsguides.com/default.asp>


BTW - Aside from being an MS product I'd be very leary of Great Plains. The
overall strategy and integration by MS in that area is pretty chaotic. Take
a good hard look at your manufacturing environment and compare to what they
can handle.

Also, take a really hard look not only at what other systems have but where
Epicor is going with Sonoma. 12-18 months from now Vantage will be a whole
different thing.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michael,

If you have a clear mandate from management to proceed, you may want to
begin by collecting comprehensive information about potential candidates.
First, however, you should have a clear idea about your organizations goals
and priorities. Check out the tools available from the following site:

http://www.technologyevaluation.com

They offer huge volumes of product research, an excellent comparative
analysis capability, comprehensive RFQ templates, etc. All of this only
works if you have very well defined and prioritized goals for the system.
For example, is multi-site/multi-division accounting required? Is
performance as or more important that customizability. How important is the
target platform? The list goes on and on.

Good luck and I hope this helps your search.

Michael

p.s. If the only reason that you are looking is your management's concern
for system growth, your current system can more than accommodate your growth
targets.

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:24 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Michael:

Does management feel that Vantage is not capable of handling the additional
users or what is the reason to move away from a system that is working?

Best Regards:
Mike Moloney





"Michael Benedict"
<mbenedict@crestview-aero To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
space.com> cc: (bcc: Michael J. Moloney/USWIN01/Power/ALSTOM)
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions

05/08/2003 01:24 PM
Please respond to vantage






I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if you
could share?

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
In selecting Vantage we used a product from CTS Guides called (then) "Guide to PC-Based Software for the Manufacturing Industry". I don't recall the price (couple grand I think) but it was very comprehensive. Software based system that compares a couple dozen (then) major vendors in the mid-market space. You survey users and fill out needs rankings on about a thousand questions (seriously, at least 1,000) and it crunches your needs compared to responses from real users of the systems to find the best matches. Very thorough and forces you into very deep look at the needs of your organization. I liked it because of the annual surveys they do to keep the user feedback part as real as possible. Their web site: http://www.ctsguides.com/default.asp

BTW - Aside from being an MS product I'd be very leary of Great Plains. The overall strategy and integration by MS in that area is pretty chaotic. Take a good hard look at your manufacturing environment and compare to what they can handle.

Also, take a really hard look not only at what other systems have but where Epicor is going with Sonoma. 12-18 months from now Vantage will be a whole different thing.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=360315526>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes.
The Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
> 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
> know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
> release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michael,

In my opinion you've outgrown the product / platform. Paragraph -2- of your
email has been debated on this list for some 6 years now so ....

What kind of budget do you have for a new system? ( Hardware, Software,
Implementation )

Just a suggestion ... given your user count growth rate ... I would
seriously challenge any vendors contending for the sale to provide you
pricing based on unlimited users up front.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes.
The Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
> 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
> know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
> release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sounds like you've outgrown Vantage based on volume more than # users and stretched its capacity. Also invested heavily in hardware. We've had our share of irritations with new releases (hence waiting a long time before we try 6.0) butwe can be more tollerant of temporary issues.

Sounds like you may be headed for a larger proprietary server environment, like the IBM i-series (former AS/400) and something like MAPICS. Or seven SAP-lite on a much faster DB and server/storage system. Going to be spendy to do it right.

Good luck in your search. BTW - Vantage was my 5th different mfg system implementation in 27 years at various places. They never become fun.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes.
The Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
> 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
> know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
> release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=607347578>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the most part, your first paragraph issues can be effectively addressed
with the judicious application of technology. Progress, after all, has
clients with far larger implementations both in terms of database size,
transaction volume and user count. The solutions will, however, lead you
out of the wintel realm and that...unfortunately, leads to paragraph two...

Venturing onto an unsupported platform with an organization whose support
you find well...ineffective... on the platform they do support is a certain
recipe for headaches if not absolute failure. Good luck with your search
and keep us apprised.

Michael

p.s. Per Todd's suggestion, MAPICS has been scoring off the dials for
"overall vendor experience" recently.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 11:55 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes.
The Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
> 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
> know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
> release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I don't believe progress performace or your database size is the culperate.
I know other vendors such as QAD for example running progress databases much
larger than yours without such performace issues. It could be vantage needs
some added table indexes or more elaborate database to hardware
configurations. To support your size. You might try contacting progress
directly.

Patrick Winter


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes. The
Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you
> if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user
> and 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement
> that I know not all packages have is real-time data collection and
> updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their
> latest release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has
> anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
If I had the chance we would go to Great Plains Enterprise on SQL Server.
Every time I do an upgrade to Vantage I wish they would have choose Great
Plains. The customer base for Great Plains is now over 30,000 installations
compared Vantage's 1500. I was just at a conference yesterday where they
showed Microsoft SQL Server 2003 running on a 64 bit processor and it was
absolutely amazing. In recent years I've been very displeased with
Microsoft's licensing scheme but their products keep getting better and
better. I ran a Great Plains shop for 6 years and only found one bug in an
upgrade the entire time.

Just my .02

Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:55 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions


Michael/Patrick,Todd

There are a multitude of issues from the product itself, support and
performance. We have 2 divisions, a modification division and a
manufacturing division. Our mod division is experiencing tremendous growth
and all of these programs require government reporting requirements which
the system does not handle very well. We have an average of 5,500 to 7,000
jobs at some point in the production process at any given time. Our Labor
Detail table has over 3 million records to date. It is taking longer and
longer to process reports and analyze data in a timely manner. I know of
the summarize and purge options, but most of our projects run for years at a
time and we are required to keep that history. It takes on average 30 hours
for MRP to regen and we must do this weekly because of constant changes.
The Visual Scheduling is for the most part useless to us because of the
performance issues. Our server has dual 2GHZ processors, 4GB of RAM with a
database consisting of 6 B and 12 D extends at over 10GB. The server has a
GB card feeding a GB switch that inturn leads into multiple hubs, and in
some areas Vantage performance is terrible.

Another issue is that each new release appears to be based solely on new
modules and attracting new customers instead of correcting errors that have
existed for years. If I had installed version 5.2 when it was released, I
would have been looking for a new job. I don't feel the customers should be
the ones to Beta test the product after it is released. I have seen the
Sonoma product and like the options that will be available, however the
product is changing not the company or the support. I have been through 2
new implementations and really do not want to do this again, but this is not
solely my decision.

Thanks for the insight,

Michael



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, pjw@s... wrote:
> I would like to here specific issues where Vantage is failing for you if
you
> could share?
>
> Patrick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Benedict [mailto:mbenedict@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] [OT] New Software Suggestions
>
>
> I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
> software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
> licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
> 40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
> know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I
have
> worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
> release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone
worked
> with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to
Vantage
> and meet our growth needs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Benedict
> IS Manager
> Crestview Aerospace Corp.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Have Epicor come to your facility and do a demo of Sonoma using your database. Just to see how it compares. I've been told that Oracle and SQL Server will be options. One of these might be a better alternative than a complete new implementation.
Scott Hearn - Pro-Fab
Michael Benedict <mbenedict@...> wrote:I have been instructed by management to begin to evaluate a different
software package. We currently have 95 user and 20 data collection
licenses. We are projecting to have a need for approximately 140 user and
40 data collection in the next 12-18 months. The only requirement that I
know not all packages have is real-time data collection and updates. I have
worked with Macola in the past and have requested and demo of their latest
release. I have also heard good reviews of Great Plains. Has anyone worked
with another package they could suggest that would be comparable to Vantage
and meet our growth needs?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Benedict
IS Manager
Crestview Aerospace Corp.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Scott Hearn
Pro-Fab, Inc.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]