OT: Workstation Reboot

Don't forget vending machines or microwaves. We had similar problems traced
to our break room.

Mark Dupuis


-----Original Message-----
From: pjw@... [mailto:pjw@...]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:08 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Try placing a old UPS at the station for a week and see if the problem
goes
away. Or a long drop cord to the computer room.

Patrick Winter


-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other (which
is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop --
dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another. I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning. They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time
ago. Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved
in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased
with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have just backed
off on reboots. I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once
in
a while just to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
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have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
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Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of 6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning. They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless 'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building -- but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning.
They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to
the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's
my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything
in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other (which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop -- dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another. I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning.
They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to
the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's
my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything
in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


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<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Lydia,
Try swapping some ports on your HUBs/switchs. I had some
similar issues and found that they went away with new switchs.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:00 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot

Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other
(which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop --
dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure
that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another.
I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off
at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no
go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to
replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning.
They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to
the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's
my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything
in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

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vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

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Tracking #: B4427E12181EC740B4BD080DF015F8D03E619D28


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lydia,

We had a W98 ws that would go into continuous reboot. Way in the back of
the shop. There was an overhead heater and a compressor back there. I got
a new machine with W2K - seems OK.

Gary Polvinale


-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:00 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other (which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop -- dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another. I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning. They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless 'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building -- but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long time
ago. Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been pleased
with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have just backed
off on reboots. I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in
a while just to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

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vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Thanks, Shirley...tried it. No go. Switched back to the old hub one
weekend, didn't help, then went back to the original (1 yr old) HP switch.

Seriously, it is magic, or lack thereof. I'm convinced that there's a
staple through one of the wires (or paint on one of them or...) and when it
cools off at night and then starts to heat up in the morning, the tiny
little bit of expansion causes the computer to send these "OH MY GOD!!!!I
CAN'T FIND THE SERVER" messages.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:40 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Lydia,
Try swapping some ports on your HUBs/switchs. I had some
similar issues and found that they went away with new switchs.

Shirley

-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:00 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot

Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other
(which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop --
dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure
that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another.
I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off
at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no
go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to
replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning.
They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to
the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's
my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything
in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.

Tracking #: B4427E12181EC740B4BD080DF015F8D03E619D28


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
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HI Lydia,



Have you tried looking at the error count that some switches log.

We have 3com switches and I regularly check the error count.

This should give some indication as to the type of error.

Ie. Fragments, crc errors , and undersized oversized.



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal





-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 12:00 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other
(which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop --
dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure
that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another.
I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off
at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no
go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to
replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning.
They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless
'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to
the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's
my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything
in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building --
but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long
time ago.
Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been
pleased with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have
just backed off on reboots.
I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in a while just
to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/


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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Try placing a old UPS at the station for a week and see if the problem goes
away. Or a long drop cord to the computer room.

Patrick Winter


-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Cat5e, no welders, only two shifts, errors occur as early as 5:00 am, as
late as 6 pm. One of them ONLY occurs during idle time, the other (which is
in an office area) sometimes happens mid-day. The wires don't pass ANY
machines, and the station that is in the center of the machine shop -- dust,
oil, chips, heat, doesn't do this, just hums along. I'm fairly sure that
one of them has GOT to be a problem with the wire (which is all run in
conduit throughout the shop areas), because I've had three different
computers out there, and they've all done this at one time or another. I
even thought that maybe the power to the switch was getting turned off at
night (we have some crazy electrical stuff here), but tested that--no go.
It's a puzzle, and some night I'll wake up at 2 am with the answer. Til
then, those two will just get turned off at night. I'm hoping to replace
them early next year with faster, W2K machines--maybe that will make a
difference.

Thanks for the ideas,
Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: John Mansfield [mailto:johnm@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot


Sounds like a noise problem.

Any welders ultra sound machines or maybe night lighting with a noisy
ballast.

How many shifts do you run? Do the errors only occur during idle time?

The cable that you have is it cat5, cat5e or shielded?



Good luck,



John Mansfield

General Sheet Metal



-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:14 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Workstation Reboot



Bruce:

I don't know about James, but I have 2 data collection stations (out of
6)
that have to be turned off every night, then back on in the morning. They
are both older machines, but all of the DC stations are (w98s, God bless 'em
every one). We are in a one-year new building, but I'm convinced that I
have a wiring issue: have changed NICs, wire to the wall, even the
computers; still have the issue -- they throw multiple 5512 errors to the
server in the morning (20-50 per second is my best estimate), if left on
overnight. Brings Vantage logons in the whole building to a crawl. The
wiring is out of warranty, so if turning 'em off at night works, that's my
cheapest solution. They aren't on the same segment, switch or anything in
common...one is close, the other at the outmost edge of the building -- but
not the longest wire run! Go figure.

This is the 20% magic part of computer science.

Lydia

IS Administrator
Canyon Engineering Products
661-294-0084 x115



-----Original Message-----
From: Ordway, Bruce [mailto:bruceo@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 7:36 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] OT: Server Reboot


Hi James,

Just wondering why you would reboot so often?
I used to reboot all of my servers weekly but I stopped doing so a long time
ago. Most hardware and software just seems to me to have really improved in
recent years. As much as people like to bash MS, I have really been pleased
with Win2K. Everything seems pretty stable nowadays so I have just backed
off on reboots. I do believe that reboots are still necessary every once in
a while just to tidy things up, but I may go for several months now.

Bruce Ordway

>reboot our data collection pc's every night<

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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
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(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/