Plastic Injection Molding question: How to handle plastic regri

Dear Terry, Alexander,

Thanks for your comments, and I agree with you that the main goal is
to eliminate the source of the problem. That's something we've been
doing for years by:
- reducing runner sizes
- trying to convince our customers to use "runnerless" molds on high
volume jobs
- trying to convince our customer to allow a higher percentage of
regrind in their product

Out of the 50 molding machines, we may have about 20% of them that
have a process of returning the regrind right back into the material
hopper. But for the rest of them, there are constraints that we
need to deal with that make it very difficult to eliminate the
regrind issue completely.
- being custom molders, our customers specify the allowed
percentage of regrind. Many of them specify 0% regrind. Even
though we try to convince them otherwise with price reductions if
they allowed more regrind, they feel that they don't want to take
the risk. (My guess is that they've been "burned" before by a
previous molder who didn't handle the regrind well, and in turn
supplied them with an inferior product.) Some of the regrind we
generate on those products is used on other products that allow
regrind.
- some of our parts are very small (imagine 1000 pieces in a coffee
cup). On those parts, we generate more regrind than we can return
into the process.
- 800 active part numbers sold each year (mostly plastic gears),
about 100 base materials with various fillers, colors, and regrind
percentages: all this adds to the complexity of the situation.

At this time it appears to me that the best way to handle it in
Vantage is to be creative with reports to get the needed
information. Of course on the manufacturing side, we'll always be
looking at ways to minimize the regrind issue.

Thanks again for the excellent feedback.

Ray Paquet
ABA-PGT Inc.
Manchester, CT USA

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Guanella" <guanella2003@...>
wrote:
> Ray
> I agree with Alexander Gamble response. We do injection molding of
plastic during which we usually consume the regrind we generate.
> Unless some special circumstance forces us to create an item
numbers for regrind we don't create item numbers for regrind.
> Terry
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@>
> wrote:
> > Ray,
> > Thinking outside the box, I had a similar experience when I
worked for a plastic fiber extruder...
> > First question I always ask myself comes from Micheal Hammer's
> idea of "obliterate, don't automate" - before I try to get the
system to accurately model anything in the physical world I
challenge what we're doing in the first place.
> > Not sure, but it sounds like you end up with material that is
some percentage regrind and some percentage virgin - we used to
capture our scrap fiber,grind it up, send it out for processing, and
get it back in pellet form. We then had a very similar problem as
you have, how to account for it and reflect it in BOM's.
> > What I ended up doing was to put a grinder at the end of the
line with a cyclone vacuum, grind up the scrap real time as it was
created, cart it down to the extruder end of the line, and feed it
into the neck with twin screw self wiping feeder at an allowable
rate.
> > Doing this, we could leave the BOM at 100% virgin for the total
> weight of the order, and our regrind rate was a factor of our
first pass yield, but our overall material yield was virtually 100%.
> > Said another way - if I was producing 1000 lbs of fiber at 100
lbs/hr through the extruder, I'd net 90 lbs/hr finished goods
(process yield 90%). So I'd have to run for 1000/90, or 11 hrs, but
since I would feed back the 10% continuously, my material yield was
100%. The product contained 10% regrind, but the regrind came from
that order itself.
> > We cut a ton of cost out by doing it that way, and complexity.
No more cost of handling the scrap to ship and re-receive, no more
PO's from purchasing for the re-processing, no more color issues,
and better processing since the shear stress characteristics were
consistent (same lot of material), and no storage requirements for
regrind.
> > Just a thought.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Alexander Gamble
> > Program Manager
> > Vermont Composites, Inc.
________________________________
>On Behalf Ofbrychanwilliams
> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:21 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Hi,
> > I use to work in an aluminium foundry. We approach a similar
> problem in similar way but we could not guarantee the split would
correct would actually correct.
> > We would create dummy materials, like you have done, for each
> > specification .
> > E.g.
> > Melt1 - 100%ingot0%recycled
> > Melt2 - 75%ingot 25% recycled
> > Melt3 - 50 % ingot 50 % recycled
> > Melt5 - 25 % ingot 75% recycled
> > Melt6 - 0 % ingot 100% recycled
> > We wrote a report which would then give the actual requirement
for ingot and recycled materials. We wouldn't use the standard
> reports.
However, due to the inaccuracies in planned quantities and actuals
and the fact that there was always recycled quantities available
> it probably isn't such a big issue as for you . I believe the
plastic industry is tighter on quantities than the foundry.
> > Let me know if you want any more info. Presumably, you recycle
materials and this is another ball game we got involved in.
-----------------------------------
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Paquet" <raypaquet@> wrote:
> > > This question is probably best directed to the injection
molders in the group who handle plastic regrind in their operation.
I'd like to ask how others handle plastic regrind in the BOM
module. I'll describe how we handle it. Then I'd be interested
--------------
Ray,

Thinking outside the box, I had a similar experience when I worked for a
plastic fiber extruder...

First question I always ask myself comes from Micheal Hammer's idea of
"obliterate, don't automate" - before I try to get the system to accurately
model anything in the physical world I challenge what we're doing in the
first place.

Not sure, but it sounds like you end up with material that is some percentage
regrind and some percentage virgin - we used to capture our scrap fiber,
grind it up, send it out for processing, and get it back in pellet form. We
then had a very similar problem as you have, how to account for it and
reflect it in BOM's.

What I ended up doing was to put a grinder at the end of the line with a
cyclone vacuum, grind up the scrap real time as it was created, cart it down
to the extruder end of the line, and feed it into the neck with a twin screw
self wiping feeder at an allowable rate.

Doing this, we could leave the BOM at 100% virgin for the total weight of the
order, and our regrind rate was a factor of our first pass yield, but our
overall material yield was virtually 100%.

Said another way - if I was producing 1000 lbs of fiber at 100 lbs/hr through
the extruder, I'd net 90 lbs/hr finished goods (process yield 90%). So I'd
have to run for 1000/90, or 11 hrs, but since I would feed back the 10%
continuously, my material yield was 100%. The product contained 10% regrind,
but the regrind came from that order itself.

We cut a ton of cost out by doing it that way, and complexity. No more cost
of handling the scrap to ship and re-receive, no more PO's from purchasing
for the re-processing, no more color issues, and better processing since the
shear stress characteristics were consistent (same lot of material), and no
storage requirements for regrind.

Just a thought.


Regards,

Alexander Gamble
Program Manager

Vermont Composites, Inc.
25 Performance Drive
Bennington VT 05201

alexanderg@...
www.vtcomposites.com <blocked::http://www.vtcomposites.com>

Voice (802) 442-9964 ext. 1295
FAX (802) 447-3642


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brychanwilliams
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Spam:[Vantage] Re: Plastic Injection Molding question: How to handle
plastic regrind in BOM


Hi,

I use to work in an aluminium foundry. We approach a similar problem
in similar way but we could not guarantee the split would correct
would actually correct.

We would create dummy materials, like you have done, for each
specification .

E.g.

Melt1 - 100%ingot0%recycled
Melt2 - 75%ingot 25% recycled
Melt3 - 50 % ingot 50 % recycled
Melt5 - 25 % ingot 75% recycled
Melt6 - 0 % ingot 100% recycled

We wrote a report which would then give the actual requirement for
ingot and recycled materials. We wouldn't use the standard reports.
However, due to the inaccuracies in planned quantities and actuals
and the fact that there was always recycled quantities available it
probably isn't such a big issue as for you . I believe the plastic
industry is tighter on quantities than the foundry.

Let me know if you want any more info. Presumably, you recycle
materials and this is another ball game we got involved in.



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Paquet" <raypaquet@...> wrote:
>
> This question is probably best directed to the injection molders
in
> the group who handle plastic regrind in their operation.
>
> I'd like to ask how others handle plastic regrind in the BOM
> module. I'll describe how we handle it. Then I'd be interested
in
> hearing from others if there is a better way. (We're on Vantage
6.0)
>
> Let's say P/N ZZPART weighs 3.0 pounds, the plastic is P/N
XXNylon,
> and the specification allows 33% plastic regrind.
>
> In our Part Master, we would have 3 part numbers related to this
> item:
> - ZZPART (the finished product)
> - XXNylon (the 100% prime plastic material)
> - XXNylon33R (the plastic material that is mixed with regrind,
> 66% prime, 33% regrind)
>
> During the year as this part is ordered in lots of 1000 pieces
> (requirement would be 3000 pounds), inventory could show different
> scenarios, which all would satisfy demand:
> Scenario 1: 3000 lbs of XXNylon, 0 lbs of XXNylon33R
> Scenario 2: 0 lbs of XXNylon, 3000 lbs of XXNylon33R
> Scenario 3: 2000 lbs of XXNylon, 1000 lbs of XXNylon33R
> Scenario n: x lbs of XXNylon, y lbs of XXNylon33R (where x
+
> y = 3000)
>
> The question is, what is the best way to plan for this in BOM?
For
> XXNylon, we specify qty/parent = 3.0 lbs. It works great for
> scenario 1. However in scenario 2 if you followed the strict
rule,
> it would indicate that you need to order 3000 pounds, when in fact
> you are all set, you have all the material you need. What we do
now
> is run a materials requirement report, and when we see that
XXNylon
> is required, we go one more step and look at the on hand quantity
> for both XXNylon and XXNylon33R (to see if x + y >= 3000).
>
> This system would be fine if we had only one plastic material.
> However we have over 100 base materials to review, so it becomes a
> bit cumbersome. Also some regrind specifications are 25%, or 50%
or
> 100% regrind, so it makes things a bit more complex. If you have
a
> better way, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
>
> Thanks.
> Ray Paquet
>






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufacturing+
software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda
+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+soft
ware&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA> Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Manufact
uring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&
w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketin
g+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ> Database mortgage
software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manufactur
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4
=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+
software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>
Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufacturing+s
oftware&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w4=Pda+
database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing+softw
are&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg> Database management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Manufact
uring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&
w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketin
g+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw> Database marketing
software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+software&w
4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+marketing
+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>

________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> "
on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ray

I agree with Alexander Gamble response. We do injection molding of
plastic during which we usually consume the regrind we generate.
Unless some special circumstance forces us to create an item numbers
for regrind we don't create item numbers for regrind.

Terry


--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ray,
>
> Thinking outside the box, I had a similar experience when I worked
for a
> plastic fiber extruder...
>
> First question I always ask myself comes from Micheal Hammer's
idea of
> "obliterate, don't automate" - before I try to get the system to
accurately
> model anything in the physical world I challenge what we're doing
in the
> first place.
>
> Not sure, but it sounds like you end up with material that is some
percentage
> regrind and some percentage virgin - we used to capture our scrap
fiber,
> grind it up, send it out for processing, and get it back in pellet
form. We
> then had a very similar problem as you have, how to account for it
and
> reflect it in BOM's.
>
> What I ended up doing was to put a grinder at the end of the line
with a
> cyclone vacuum, grind up the scrap real time as it was created,
cart it down
> to the extruder end of the line, and feed it into the neck with a
twin screw
> self wiping feeder at an allowable rate.
>
> Doing this, we could leave the BOM at 100% virgin for the total
weight of the
> order, and our regrind rate was a factor of our first pass yield,
but our
> overall material yield was virtually 100%.
>
> Said another way - if I was producing 1000 lbs of fiber at 100
lbs/hr through
> the extruder, I'd net 90 lbs/hr finished goods (process yield
90%). So I'd
> have to run for 1000/90, or 11 hrs, but since I would feed back
the 10%
> continuously, my material yield was 100%. The product contained
10% regrind,
> but the regrind came from that order itself.
>
> We cut a ton of cost out by doing it that way, and complexity. No
more cost
> of handling the scrap to ship and re-receive, no more PO's from
purchasing
> for the re-processing, no more color issues, and better processing
since the
> shear stress characteristics were consistent (same lot of
material), and no
> storage requirements for regrind.
>
> Just a thought.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alexander Gamble
> Program Manager
>
> Vermont Composites, Inc.
> 25 Performance Drive
> Bennington VT 05201
>
> alexanderg@...
> www.vtcomposites.com <blocked::http://www.vtcomposites.com>
>
> Voice (802) 442-9964 ext. 1295
> FAX (802) 447-3642
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> brychanwilliams
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:21 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Spam:[Vantage] Re: Plastic Injection Molding question:
How to handle
> plastic regrind in BOM
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I use to work in an aluminium foundry. We approach a similar
problem
> in similar way but we could not guarantee the split would correct
> would actually correct.
>
> We would create dummy materials, like you have done, for each
> specification .
>
> E.g.
>
> Melt1 - 100%ingot0%recycled
> Melt2 - 75%ingot 25% recycled
> Melt3 - 50 % ingot 50 % recycled
> Melt5 - 25 % ingot 75% recycled
> Melt6 - 0 % ingot 100% recycled
>
> We wrote a report which would then give the actual requirement for
> ingot and recycled materials. We wouldn't use the standard
reports.
> However, due to the inaccuracies in planned quantities and actuals
> and the fact that there was always recycled quantities available
it
> probably isn't such a big issue as for you . I believe the plastic
> industry is tighter on quantities than the foundry.
>
> Let me know if you want any more info. Presumably, you recycle
> materials and this is another ball game we got involved in.
>
>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Paquet" <raypaquet@> wrote:
> >
> > This question is probably best directed to the injection molders
> in
> > the group who handle plastic regrind in their operation.
> >
> > I'd like to ask how others handle plastic regrind in the BOM
> > module. I'll describe how we handle it. Then I'd be interested
> in
> > hearing from others if there is a better way. (We're on Vantage
> 6.0)
> >
> > Let's say P/N ZZPART weighs 3.0 pounds, the plastic is P/N
> XXNylon,
> > and the specification allows 33% plastic regrind.
> >
> > In our Part Master, we would have 3 part numbers related to this
> > item:
> > - ZZPART (the finished product)
> > - XXNylon (the 100% prime plastic material)
> > - XXNylon33R (the plastic material that is mixed with
regrind,
> > 66% prime, 33% regrind)
> >
> > During the year as this part is ordered in lots of 1000 pieces
> > (requirement would be 3000 pounds), inventory could show
different
> > scenarios, which all would satisfy demand:
> > Scenario 1: 3000 lbs of XXNylon, 0 lbs of XXNylon33R
> > Scenario 2: 0 lbs of XXNylon, 3000 lbs of XXNylon33R
> > Scenario 3: 2000 lbs of XXNylon, 1000 lbs of XXNylon33R
> > Scenario n: x lbs of XXNylon, y lbs of XXNylon33R (where
x
> +
> > y = 3000)
> >
> > The question is, what is the best way to plan for this in BOM?
> For
> > XXNylon, we specify qty/parent = 3.0 lbs. It works great for
> > scenario 1. However in scenario 2 if you followed the strict
> rule,
> > it would indicate that you need to order 3000 pounds, when in
fact
> > you are all set, you have all the material you need. What we do
> now
> > is run a materials requirement report, and when we see that
> XXNylon
> > is required, we go one more step and look at the on hand
quantity
> > for both XXNylon and XXNylon33R (to see if x + y >= 3000).
> >
> > This system would be fine if we had only one plastic material.
> > However we have over 100 base materials to review, so it becomes
a
> > bit cumbersome. Also some regrind specifications are 25%, or
50%
> or
> > 100% regrind, so it makes things a bit more complex. If you
have
> a
> > better way, I'd really be interested in hearing about it.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Ray Paquet
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>