Poll: Have you been asked by Vantage for input on future release

No


Kersten MacLennan
IT/ERP Analyst
Semrock, Inc.
3625 Buffalo Rd.,
Suite 6
Rochester, NY 14624
585-594-7009
585-594-7095 fax

kmaclennan@...

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________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Poll: Have you been asked by Vantage for input on
future release (v9) design/features?



Simple yes/no response please.

Rob Brown

quest_erp <quest_erp@... <mailto:quest_erp%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
Good poll question, how do we make that an official poll?
No,I have not been asked for input on V9; either by Epicor or EUG.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of
what you have right now.
>
> I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept
the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a
pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage
employees.
>
> Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get
it.
>
> I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request
exists - and if so how many are signed on).
>
> However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it
as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in
silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our
customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).
>
> Case in point: The pending version 9.
>
> Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any
level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or
none.)
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
> Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about
what
> Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software
will do
> 70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but
I
> try to make as much of it come to you as possible.
>
> Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to
happen,
> we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
> 'fore the trees.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Brown
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to
make -
> but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the
whole
> order" - implying likely as many don't).
>
> This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the
deaf
> ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
> configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
> capabilities.
>
> Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are
subtly
> changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the
course of
> routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.
>
> Even simple things - like changing a control label text description
to
> match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture'
terminology -
> are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization
(as
> the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports -
turning
> the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).
>
> Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
> described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
> global labeling.
>
> Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
> platforms like d-base & b-trieve.
>
> The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping
half
> thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it
up to
> them to fix it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
> <mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the
SO and
> AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
> already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could
create a
> subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above
the
> total and you are set.
>
> Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on
the
> sales order header, but if you have product and services combined
on the
> order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
> discount per line makes sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/
<http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> > /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have
discounts on
> line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap
load
> of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a
discount
> (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every
line
> so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
> vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get
mad
> when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
> Welding Company of America
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....




M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am pretty sure we have submitted an enhancement request for this. But
to help expedite and prioritize enhancements, everyone needs to submit
them as they come across problems that can be fixed. Epicor will remain
lazy if we keep spending our money on their product and paying our
service fees and not demand improvements.



Andrew Best



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:25 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts



Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Great...I'll see if there is one and add my name to it....if there isn't
I'll demand one and let the group know so they can add their names to it
if they want.

Thanks Andrew...



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrew Best
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:32 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts



I am pretty sure we have submitted an enhancement request for this. But
to help expedite and prioritize enhancements, everyone needs to submit
them as they come across problems that can be fixed. Epicor will remain
lazy if we keep spending our money on their product and paying our
service fees and not demand improvements.

Andrew Best

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 11:25 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Why not modify the SO and AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create a
subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above the
total and you are set.

Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on the
sales order header, but if you have product and services combined on the
order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
discount per line makes sense.





Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts



Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on line
> items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load of
> customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount (again
> on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line so they
> want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my vendors I would
> do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad when I don't have the
> option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

I wouldn't give up on total discount capability but your situation could be
handled with a custom form. You could create a Crystal form that doesn't
display the line discounts and displays a discount at the end. At least that
way you won't have customers trying to take more than they should. It's a
stop-gap measure but it should ease the pain if/when Epicor adds that
capability.

Mark W.
Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make - but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole order" - implying likely as many don't).

This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it" capabilities.

Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.

Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology - are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).

Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled global labeling.

Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db platforms like d-base & b-trieve.

The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to them to fix it.

Rob Brown



Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote: Why not modify the SO and AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create a
subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above the
total and you are set.

Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on the
sales order header, but if you have product and services combined on the
order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
discount per line makes sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm going to go down that route, but cannot eliminate the discounts
because we do have that occurrence as well...but the problem is that the
"system" doesn't know of the discount. My guys would have to pay
special attention to those particular orders when it does occur. I'm
thinking that we will have a special red stamp to say Order Discount, or
something. If this was an everyday occurrence then Epicor would hear a
lot from me, but it only happens maybe 5-6 times a year.



M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:44 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts



> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts
on line
> items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load of
> customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again
> on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line so
they
> want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my vendors I
would
> do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad when I don't
have the
> option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

I wouldn't give up on total discount capability but your situation could
be
handled with a custom form. You could create a Crystal form that doesn't
display the line discounts and displays a discount at the end. At least
that
way you won't have customers trying to take more than they should. It's
a
stop-gap measure but it should ease the pain if/when Epicor adds that
capability.

Mark W.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm going to go down that route, but cannot eliminate the discounts
> because we do have that occurrence as well...but the problem is that the
> "system" doesn't know of the discount. My guys would have to pay
> special attention to those particular orders when it does occur. I'm
> thinking that we will have a special red stamp to say Order Discount, or
> something. If this was an everyday occurrence then Epicor would hear a
> lot from me, but it only happens maybe 5-6 times a year.

If you want to be slick, you could use one of the user-defined checkboxes on
the OrderHead record to indicate that the order has a "Order Discount". You
would add that field to your Report Data Definition. Once there, you can have
one form that hides/shows fields based on the setting of that field.

Mark W.
Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about what
Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software will do
70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but I
try to make as much of it come to you as possible.



Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to happen,
we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
'fore the trees.



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts



Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make -
but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole
order" - implying likely as many don't).

This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf
ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
capabilities.

Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly
changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of
routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.

Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to
match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology -
are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as
the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning
the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).

Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
global labeling.

Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
platforms like d-base & b-trieve.

The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half
thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to
them to fix it.

Rob Brown

Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
<mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the SO and
AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create a
subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above the
total and you are set.

Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on the
sales order header, but if you have product and services combined on the
order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
discount per line makes sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rob,
I almost never contribute to these, but I have to say on Epicor's part, I think it is partially corporate laziness.
Ever wonder on some screens why they allow you to select some options as inactive, which hides them in dropdowns by default, so you would have to select, Active/Inactive/ALL, but on so many other screens, they make you change the item description to Z?

Silly workaround.
I argued for almost 3 years that ship vias needed to be inactivated because I might have an option that is not offered any longer.
Seems like a petty complaint. They told me to have personnel select a replacement arbitrarily. Not always viable.
They told me to add a Z, to place it down in the list.. cheap, lazy tactic from days back I suppose.
But what really annoyed me was in the customer connect module, the customer shipment histories pull the CURRENT DESCRIPTION from the live ship via master table.
So, now, let's say UPS was this old description, and I no longer offer UPS service, everytime a customer goes back in the older records, they see listings of zUPS, or zUPSDoNotShip, or whatever description we have had to modify to.

Work? Yes. The impression I want to give my customers? NOT AT ALL.

So, simply allowing some options to be hidden (not deleted) would have been the correct thing to do.

I went round and round with some "holier than thou" programmer at perspectives 2 years ago in a room of maybe 100-125 people.
He kept insisting it was unnecessary and finally conceded when I trapped him with the Customer connect issue (why do we love to trap them?) and swore he would make it happen.

I am assuming that takes at least 3 years.

Maintenance fees would never be enough I guess. I would have to buy new modules to make that work as it should. It seems like most development effort goes into new modules only, although I know that is not really fair to people who have worked hard to improve existing product.
So, my philosophy has changed with them....I still wholly support them. But I let them know the exact deficiencies that keep me from buying the new modules (like rebates), which in turn keeps me from buying more licenses.


To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: robertb_versa@...: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 23:13:19 -0800Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts




Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make - but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole order" - implying likely as many don't).This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it" capabilities.Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology - are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled global labeling.Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db platforms like d-base & b-trieve.The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to them to fix it.Rob BrownCharlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote: Why not modify the SO and AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoicealready takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create asubtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above thetotal and you are set.Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on thesales order header, but if you have product and services combined on theorder you might discount product but not services or vice versa so adiscount per line makes sense.Charlie SmithSmith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> / www.2WTech.comFrom: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On BehalfOf Manasa ReddySent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PMTo: vantage@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Vantage] SO DiscountsWill anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts online items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap loadof customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every lineso they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to myvendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get madwhen I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in thefuture?Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....M. Manasa ReddyERP / Inventory & Procurement ManagerWelding Company of Americamanasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com> P: 630-806-2000F: 630-806-2001[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]---------------------------------Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of what you have right now.

I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage employees.

Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get it.

I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request exists - and if so how many are signed on).

However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).

Case in point: The pending version 9.

Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or none.)

Rob Brown

Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about what
Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software will do
70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but I
try to make as much of it come to you as possible.

Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to happen,
we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
'fore the trees.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make -
but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole
order" - implying likely as many don't).

This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf
ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
capabilities.

Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly
changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of
routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.

Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to
match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology -
are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as
the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning
the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).

Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
global labeling.

Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
platforms like d-base & b-trieve.

The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half
thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to
them to fix it.

Rob Brown

Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
<mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the SO and
AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create a
subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above the
total and you are set.

Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on the
sales order header, but if you have product and services combined on the
order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
discount per line makes sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good poll question, how do we make that an official poll?
No,I have not been asked for input on V9; either by Epicor or EUG.






--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of
what you have right now.
>
> I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept
the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a
pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage
employees.
>
> Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get
it.
>
> I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request
exists - and if so how many are signed on).
>
> However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it
as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in
silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our
customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).
>
> Case in point: The pending version 9.
>
> Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any
level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or
none.)
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
> Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about
what
> Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software
will do
> 70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but
I
> try to make as much of it come to you as possible.
>
> Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to
happen,
> we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
> 'fore the trees.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Brown
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to
make -
> but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the
whole
> order" - implying likely as many don't).
>
> This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the
deaf
> ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
> configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
> capabilities.
>
> Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are
subtly
> changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the
course of
> routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.
>
> Even simple things - like changing a control label text description
to
> match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture'
terminology -
> are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization
(as
> the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports -
turning
> the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).
>
> Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
> described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
> global labeling.
>
> Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
> platforms like d-base & b-trieve.
>
> The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping
half
> thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it
up to
> them to fix it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
> <mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the
SO and
> AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
> already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could
create a
> subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above
the
> total and you are set.
>
> Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on
the
> sales order header, but if you have product and services combined
on the
> order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
> discount per line makes sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have
discounts on
> line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap
load
> of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a
discount
> (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every
line
> so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
> vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get
mad
> when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
> Welding Company of America
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Anyone that knows me, knows that I don't accept the status quo. Whenever
I have an issue, I give them both barrels and I hope that others do as
well.



I always hope that the user community has some kind of input and as a
rule that what the beta process is about as well as proving the
integrity of the software version. I know that many users are self
installed users and don't document their problems. As a consultant, I
have probably documented more issues than any three users and have had
many of the same results as those three users. That doesn't stop me from
logging calls and phoning support and sending email rants to those that
have not added me to their junk mail lists. J



People PLEASE. If you see a shortcoming in the latest version of the
software, speak up. If you are using an older version of the software,
you won't get any action unless it is a major problem, so seriously
consider upgrading. Those of us saps that are on the cutting edge are
basically doing the work for those that lag behind. It's a noble deed
that we do and do it because of the need to have it done. No amount of
testing is going to find the real world issues, bugs or undocumented
features. That's what the real world is for.



As for version 9, It's my understanding the guts will be Vantage. It
should be interesting what the skin looks like.



Signed,

Vista/Vantage Bushman, carving a trail for others. J



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Software shortsighted vs. customization

Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of what
you have right now.

I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept the
status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a pretty
high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage employees.

Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get it.

I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request exists
- and if so how many are signed on).

However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it as
most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in silence
(and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our customers would
do if we provided unsatisfying products).

Case in point: The pending version 9.

Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any level
of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or none.)

Rob Brown

Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
<mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote:
Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about what
Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software will do
70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but I
try to make as much of it come to you as possible.

Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to happen,
we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
'fore the trees.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make -
but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole
order" - implying likely as many don't).

This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf
ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
capabilities.

Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly
changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of
routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.

Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to
match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology -
are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as
the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning
the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).

Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
global labeling.

Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
platforms like d-base & b-trieve.

The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half
thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to
them to fix it.

Rob Brown

Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
<mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com>
<mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the SO and
AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create a
subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above the
total and you are set.

Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on the
sales order header, but if you have product and services combined on the
order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
discount per line makes sense.

Charlie Smith

Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC

www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
www.2WTech.com

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Manasa Reddy
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts on
line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap load
of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount
(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every line
so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get mad
when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.

If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in the
future?

Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....

M. Manasa Reddy
ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
Welding Company of America
manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
P: 630-806-2000
F: 630-806-2001

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Simple yes/no response please.

Rob Brown

quest_erp <quest_erp@...> wrote:
Good poll question, how do we make that an official poll?
No,I have not been asked for input on V9; either by Epicor or EUG.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of
what you have right now.
>
> I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept
the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a
pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage
employees.
>
> Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get
it.
>
> I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request
exists - and if so how many are signed on).
>
> However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it
as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in
silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our
customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).
>
> Case in point: The pending version 9.
>
> Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any
level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or
none.)
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
> Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about
what
> Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software
will do
> 70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but
I
> try to make as much of it come to you as possible.
>
> Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to
happen,
> we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
> 'fore the trees.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Brown
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to
make -
> but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the
whole
> order" - implying likely as many don't).
>
> This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the
deaf
> ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
> configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
> capabilities.
>
> Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are
subtly
> changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the
course of
> routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.
>
> Even simple things - like changing a control label text description
to
> match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture'
terminology -
> are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization
(as
> the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports -
turning
> the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).
>
> Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
> described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
> global labeling.
>
> Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
> platforms like d-base & b-trieve.
>
> The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping
half
> thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it
up to
> them to fix it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
> <mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the
SO and
> AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
> already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could
create a
> subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above
the
> total and you are set.
>
> Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on
the
> sales order header, but if you have product and services combined
on the
> order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
> discount per line makes sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have
discounts on
> line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap
load
> of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a
discount
> (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every
line
> so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
> vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get
mad
> when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
> Welding Company of America
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Carey: Bravo!

We only went to Vantage as our current solution (ProfitKey7) had started to fall so far behind on technology that we could no longer effectively extend it (to keep up with the needs of our growing business) via our own db tables enabling integrated views of PK and non PK data in interactive web apps & excel reports.

I fully expected to have to create customizations for 'fringe' capabilities most manufacturers don't need.

I didn't expect to have to spend 80% of my time on work arounds for functions that simply don't work properly (finite sheduling - whihc in 403D has a significant bug we reported being worked on), were implemented via ridiculously & needlessly overcomplex ways (resource groups/resources) for no benefit, or minor things that become projects because of the poor documentation.

Some Great software companies actually send their designer programmers to user sites on occasion (to give them a test of real world issues).

Epicor is doing themselves a disservice by not connecting their designer programmers with their customers.

We bought Vantage as a long term investment to allow us to grow (essentially double in size) over the next 5-10 years.

Already 2 of those years gone and we aren't live yet due to it's gaping process & user productivity holes.

I'm alone in this at our company - but I'm already keeping my eyes open for Vantage's replacement 3+ years from now.

I suspect the value of the 'someday' release of v9 will be the make/break on where we go as, vantage 8 is weaker than weak in many things that matter in manufacturing.

Until then, Epicor will hear from me as it may help move the iceburg forward (and we get a decent, flexible & deep product).

Rob


Carey S <rotary1@...> wrote:
Rob,
I almost never contribute to these, but I have to say on Epicor's part, I think it is partially corporate laziness.
Ever wonder on some screens why they allow you to select some options as inactive, which hides them in dropdowns by default, so you would have to select, Active/Inactive/ALL, but on so many other screens, they make you change the item description to Z?

Silly workaround.
I argued for almost 3 years that ship vias needed to be inactivated because I might have an option that is not offered any longer.
Seems like a petty complaint. They told me to have personnel select a replacement arbitrarily. Not always viable.
They told me to add a Z, to place it down in the list.. cheap, lazy tactic from days back I suppose.
But what really annoyed me was in the customer connect module, the customer shipment histories pull the CURRENT DESCRIPTION from the live ship via master table.
So, now, let's say UPS was this old description, and I no longer offer UPS service, everytime a customer goes back in the older records, they see listings of zUPS, or zUPSDoNotShip, or whatever description we have had to modify to.

Work? Yes. The impression I want to give my customers? NOT AT ALL.

So, simply allowing some options to be hidden (not deleted) would have been the correct thing to do.

I went round and round with some "holier than thou" programmer at perspectives 2 years ago in a room of maybe 100-125 people.
He kept insisting it was unnecessary and finally conceded when I trapped him with the Customer connect issue (why do we love to trap them?) and swore he would make it happen.

I am assuming that takes at least 3 years.

Maintenance fees would never be enough I guess. I would have to buy new modules to make that work as it should. It seems like most development effort goes into new modules only, although I know that is not really fair to people who have worked hard to improve existing product.
So, my philosophy has changed with them....I still wholly support them. But I let them know the exact deficiencies that keep me from buying the new modules (like rebates), which in turn keeps me from buying more licenses.

To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: robertb_versa@...: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 23:13:19 -0800Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts

Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to make - but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the whole order" - implying likely as many don't).This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the deaf ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it" capabilities.Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are subtly changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the course of routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.Even simple things - like changing a control label text description to match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture' terminology - are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization (as the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports - turning the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled global labeling.Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db platforms like d-base & b-trieve.The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping half thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it up to them to fix it.Rob BrownCharlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote: Why not modify the SO and AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoicealready takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could create asubtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above thetotal and you are set.Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on thesales order header, but if you have product and services combined on theorder you might discount product but not services or vice versa so adiscount per line makes sense.Charlie SmithSmith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC www.vistaconsultant.com
<http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> / www.2WTech.comFrom: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On BehalfOf Manasa ReddySent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PMTo: vantage@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Vantage] SO DiscountsWill anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have discounts online items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap loadof customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a discount(again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every lineso they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to myvendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get madwhen I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in thefuture?Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....M. Manasa ReddyERP / Inventory & Procurement ManagerWelding Company of Americamanasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com> P:
630-806-2000F: 630-806-2001[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]---------------------------------Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Yes



From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Robert Brown
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Poll: Have you been asked by Vantage for input on
future release (v9) design/features?



Simple yes/no response please.

Rob Brown

quest_erp <quest_erp@... <mailto:quest_erp%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
Good poll question, how do we make that an official poll?
No,I have not been asked for input on V9; either by Epicor or EUG.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of
what you have right now.
>
> I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept
the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a
pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage
employees.
>
> Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get
it.
>
> I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request
exists - and if so how many are signed on).
>
> However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it
as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in
silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our
customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).
>
> Case in point: The pending version 9.
>
> Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any
level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or
none.)
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
> Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about
what
> Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software
will do
> 70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but
I
> try to make as much of it come to you as possible.
>
> Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to
happen,
> we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
> 'fore the trees.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Brown
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to
make -
> but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the
whole
> order" - implying likely as many don't).
>
> This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the
deaf
> ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
> configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
> capabilities.
>
> Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are
subtly
> changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the
course of
> routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.
>
> Even simple things - like changing a control label text description
to
> match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture'
terminology -
> are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization
(as
> the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports -
turning
> the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).
>
> Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
> described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
> global labeling.
>
> Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
> platforms like d-base & b-trieve.
>
> The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping
half
> thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it
up to
> them to fix it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
> <mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the
SO and
> AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
> already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could
create a
> subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above
the
> total and you are set.
>
> Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on
the
> sales order header, but if you have product and services combined
on the
> order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
> discount per line makes sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have
discounts on
> line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap
load
> of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a
discount
> (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every
line
> so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
> vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get
mad
> when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
> Welding Company of America
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Simple yes/no response please.
>

Our CAM submitted us as beta testers but we never heard from them.
yes

(they always ask for input at the annual user conference).


Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...> wrote:
Simple yes/no response please.

Rob Brown

quest_erp <quest_erp@...> wrote:
Good poll question, how do we make that an official poll?
No,I have not been asked for input on V9; either by Epicor or EUG.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Robert Brown <robertb_versa@...>
wrote:
>
> Agreed in principle Charlie in that you have to make the best of
what you have right now.
>
> I'm just surprised by the relative complacency of users to accept
the status quo. I've been 'unofficially' told by consultants that a
pretty high percentage of people in the group are actually Vantage
employees.
>
> Seems to me if we don't let them know what we want, we won't get
it.
>
> I realize Epicor has a 'blind' process for this (users submitting
enhancement requests without knowing if a similar already request
exists - and if so how many are signed on).
>
> However, the 'blind' nature of the process is the weak link in it
as most people don't bother to complain. Instead they suffer in
silence (and eventually 'go away' as customers - just like our
customers would do if we provided unsatisfying products).
>
> Case in point: The pending version 9.
>
> Poll question: Has anyone in this group been offered to have any
level of official input into what v9 will be? (I'm guessing few or
none.)
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...> wrote:
> Bob, my job is to deal with what is and then worry about
what
> Minneapolis does. My statement to customers is that the software
will do
> 70% of what you want. Some of the other 30% is you coming to it but
I
> try to make as much of it come to you as possible.
>
> Minneapolis will come around in time and while we wait for it to
happen,
> we deal with what we have in hand. The geniuses never see the forest
> 'fore the trees.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Robert Brown
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:13 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Sure Charlie, it isn't a horrificly difficult customization to
make -
> but you essentially said it yourself ("many people discount the
whole
> order" - implying likely as many don't).
>
> This (and about a hundred other things I could rattle off to the
deaf
> ears at Epicor) should be easily set (and controlled) company
> configuration settings - not "yeah but you can customize it"
> capabilities.
>
> Customizations tend to self destruct over time as db tables are
subtly
> changed (as well as native apps modified and added) during the
course of
> routine dot release & bug patch upgrades.
>
> Even simple things - like changing a control label text description
to
> match an existing company's long 'imbedded in the culture'
terminology -
> are often impractical via the current mechanisms of customization
(as
> the labels can appear in dozens & dozens of forms and reports -
turning
> the 'simple act' into a long term IT maintenance nightmare).
>
> Already being such a db intensive app, the 'simple' problem I just
> described "woulda, coulda, shoulda", been handled via db controlled
> global labeling.
>
> Stuff like that was routine as far back as the 80's with archaic db
> platforms like d-base & b-trieve.
>
> The whole .NET craze was NEVER intended to be an excuse for dumping
half
> thought out and done software on paying customers - and leaving it
up to
> them to fix it.
>
> Rob Brown
>
> Charlie Smith <CSmith@...
> <mailto:CSmith%40vistaconsultant.com> > wrote: Why not modify the
SO and
> AR forms to sum up the discounts. The Invoice
> already takes the discounts out of the invoice total, you could
create a
> subtotal line (=Total + Discount) and a 'less discount line' above
the
> total and you are set.
>
> Sure many people discount the whole order and that is available on
the
> sales order header, but if you have product and services combined
on the
> order you might discount product but not services or vice versa so a
> discount per line makes sense.
>
> Charlie Smith
>
> Smith Business Services / 2W Technologies LLC
>
> www.vistaconsultant.com <http://www.vistaconsultant.com/> /
> www.2WTech.com
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%
40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] SO Discounts
>
> Will anyone agree with me that it seems silly to ONLY have
discounts on
> line items and not be able to discount a whole order? I have a crap
load
> of customers who take advantage of us when we decide to give a
discount
> (again on the subtotal), but will show us that we discounted every
line
> so they want the discount on that line again....as a customer to my
> vendors I would do the same so I can't get mad here, but I can get
mad
> when I don't have the option to discount my subtotal.
>
> If you do agree, do you know if it is something that will change in
the
> future?
>
> Just curious to know what you guys think on this subject.....
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> ERP / Inventory & Procurement Manager
> Welding Company of America
> manasa@... <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> <mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
> P: 630-806-2000
> F: 630-806-2001
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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---------------------------------
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