We need to clarify a couple of things here.

Provision is a very powerful development tool that can be purchased to run with
Progress. The main point of Provision, and most of its cost, is tied to the
"object" like tools that are part of the set-up. It provides things like screen
design tools, SmartObjects and the ADM2 framework All are intended to make
development faster and more flexible, and once you spend the time and money to
learn the tool set they probably do help. Personally, I don't use them.

Bundled with provision is a Developer version of Progress, which allows you to
create programs that update the database. However, you can also buy a Developer
version of Progress without buying Provision. This tool allows you to create
programs that do update the data base. You don't get the fancy tools, but if you
don't plan any heavy duty development projects, you don't need Provision. The
Run/Query version of Progress that is usually supplied with Vantage also has a
basic development tool. Click Start>Programs>Progesss>Desktop, and there you
are. You have a tool to examine the Data Dictionary (icon looks like an open
book) and a source code editor(icon looks like a Pen and ink pot). Using this
basic tool you can build as fancy a Program as you want to, using all the neat
widgets that are part of the windows environment. Whether or not you can write
to the database depends on the version of the Progress Database Engine you have,
not the development tools that you are using.

If any one wants more information about this, please feel free to email me
directly.

Todd Caughey wrote:

> Pardon me if I split the "Programming - Progress version compatibility"
> thread into a side topic.
>
> OK, so what the heck is Provision and why should I need it? Obviously
> Epicor does not promote it but then they assume any Vantage site should
> never need to know anything about the database or Progress. Years of
> experience with other systems (longest was ASK-ManMan on Digital's DBMS
> database) tell me otherwise.
>
> How much does it cost or do I have it already and don't know it?
> Where can I get educated in both Progress and Provision?
> If I was able to get source code for Vantage what else would I need to
> self-maintain? Not that I want to...yet but maybe someday I will have to
> and I suspect I could not learn what I need in a few weeks. Now is the time
> to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> -Todd Caughey
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
/* ============================================================== */

William E. Colls Tel 613 591 0079
PROComputer Systems Fax 613 591 3924
67 Willow Glen Dr www.procomsys.com
Kanata Ontario Canada PEG Member 1998051404

Specialists in Progress Software development since 1985

Pardon me if I split the "Programming - Progress version compatibility"
thread into a side topic.

OK, so what the heck is Provision and why should I need it? Obviously
Epicor does not promote it but then they assume any Vantage site should
never need to know anything about the database or Progress. Years of
experience with other systems (longest was ASK-ManMan on Digital's DBMS
database) tell me otherwise.

How much does it cost or do I have it already and don't know it?
Where can I get educated in both Progress and Provision?
If I was able to get source code for Vantage what else would I need to
self-maintain? Not that I want to...yet but maybe someday I will have to
and I suspect I could not learn what I need in a few weeks. Now is the time
to prepare.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Todd,
Provision is the developer's toolset for Progress. The only reasons that I
can think of that would justify the cost would be 1) you have the Vantage
source code and want to create localizations (changes to the software for
your company only), or 2) you need to build custom modules to add on to
Vantage.

Each license of Provision runs roughly $4800 which sounds pretty hefty, but
its really not that bad for this type of development tool. Of course, when
you compare that to the cost of Microsoft development tools it looks pretty
darned expensive. This also gets you support, however, and you don't get
that with Microsoft.

My company bought a Provision license when we bought Vantage because we knew
that Vantage didn't have anything to support the certification documentation
that we are required to provide to our customers with every product that we
ship. At that time we didn't have the Vantage source code, but it really
wasn't that difficult to figure out how to tie our custom module into the
Vantage system. Our cert package has been working great for the last two
years with very few problems.

The Progress programming language is fairly easy to learn - presuming you
have prior programming experience in another Windows-based language.
Still - I would never recommend to anyone that they buy Provision without
the commitment to attend at least one week of training (about $2000 plus
expenses). There are a number of things about the language that are not
obvious and can get you into trouble if you don't know what you are doing.

My guess would be that most Vantage customers don't need Provision. Again,
the only reason to consider looking at it is if you have a pressing need to
add or change some functionality in Vantage.

================
Steve Sanders
Delta Centrifugal Corp.
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Programming - Provision

Pardon me if I split the "Programming - Progress version compatibility"
thread into a side topic.

OK, so what the heck is Provision and why should I need it? Obviously
Epicor does not promote it but then they assume any Vantage site should
never need to know anything about the database or Progress. Years of
experience with other systems (longest was ASK-ManMan on Digital's DBMS
database) tell me otherwise.

How much does it cost or do I have it already and don't know it?
Where can I get educated in both Progress and Provision?
If I was able to get source code for Vantage what else would I need to
self-maintain? Not that I want to...yet but maybe someday I will have to
and I suspect I could not learn what I need in a few weeks. Now is the
time
to prepare.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Click Here to Find Software Faster

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Progress "run time" which I believe is called Query, Enterprise NT, etc
that you purchase with Vantage allows you to run Vantage, perform queries,
report builder, etc. It does not allow you to write to the database.

If you want to write to the database and compile programs you must have what
they call provision - it is still Progress. Many versions of progress
programming classes can be taken at various locations in the US - Mass,
Atlanta, Chicago, etc..

If you need further information you can contact me offline

Keith E. Taylor
Vice President
LBSi
Business Systems Consultants (Progress based ERP packages)
216/476-1416 ext 26
keith@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Caughey [mailto:caugheyt@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:21 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Programming - Provision

Pardon me if I split the "Programming - Progress version compatibility"
thread into a side topic.

OK, so what the heck is Provision and why should I need it? Obviously
Epicor does not promote it but then they assume any Vantage site should
never need to know anything about the database or Progress. Years of
experience with other systems (longest was ASK-ManMan on Digital's DBMS
database) tell me otherwise.

How much does it cost or do I have it already and don't know it?
Where can I get educated in both Progress and Provision?
If I was able to get source code for Vantage what else would I need to
self-maintain? Not that I want to...yet but maybe someday I will have to
and I suspect I could not learn what I need in a few weeks. Now is the time
to prepare.

Thanks,
-Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

---------------------------
Long Business Systems, Inc.
12120 Elmwood Ave.
Cleveland, OH 44111
Phone: (216) 476-1416
Fax: (216) 476-1452
http://www.lbsi.com
---------------------------