Progress backups

That's not a particularly surprising result. In order to perform an incremental backup each block of the DB must be scanned for eligibility for the backup. That's why the incrementals are uniformly timed at 6 minutes. The two minute difference between the incrementals and the full backup is likely the time to read/write the additional GB's of data.

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/


On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:

> Thank you to all those who have contributed to this tread so far.
>
> I have trialled incremental backups with the following interesting results.
>
> A full backup, every 2 hours takes 8 minutes and produces a file of 7.5Gb off an 8.1Gb D1 file
>
> An incremental backup, 2 hours after a full backup takes 6 minutes and produces a file of 199Mb
>
> An incremental backup 30 mins after a full backup takes 6 minutes and produces a file of 182Mb
>
> So, there is very little to be gained in time between a full and an incremental; and, an incremental appears to take the same amount of time no matter when it is done.
>
> Seems strange to me
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ned
> Sent: 08 April 2011 17:48
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Generally, I always recommend using 2+ for the incremental backups, it just
> gives you more security and doesn't cause too much extra in terms of
> affecting users.
>
> They should also be written to another server or device whenever possible,
> if you end up with a complete failure, it doesn't matter how many backups
> you have if you can't access any of them.
>
> Ned Cleary
> Alternative Technology Partners
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
> Michael Barry
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:40 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Tony,
>
> There is a definitive Open Edge database administration guide available on
> the Progress web site. As for incremental backups you just add the -io i
> parameter to the PROBKUP command in your existing backup batch file. The
> "i" variable is the incremental overlap factor indicating the number of
> incremental files that could be missing to perform a full backup. So, if
> you can rely on the prior incremental file to be available the "i" value
> would be 1. If you want to assume that the prior 2 files would be available
> the "i" value would be 2. The default value for the -io parameter is 0 and
> therefore creates a full backup by default.
>
> After imaging is the Open Edge implementation of database journalling. It
> essentially allows you to return the database to its exact historical state
> at any past point in time. This feature is very handy for regulatory
> compliance but unless you have a compelling need to be able recreate your
> database state as of say October 10, 2009 @ 5:17pm for some reason the
> additional performance overhead is likely unwarranted.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Barry
> Aspacia Systems Inc
> 866.566.9600
> 312.803.0730 fax
> http://www.aspacia.com/
>
> On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:
>
> > Thanks Mark,
> >
> > Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
> find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
> using 'after imaging'?
> >
> > Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
> >
> > Thanks
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of Mark
> > Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
> >
> > Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
> have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
> file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
> time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
> >
> > This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
> 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
> limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
> pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
> >
> > Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
> incremental backups during the day.
> >
> > This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
> have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
> chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
> >
> > After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
> what is causing the bi to grow so much.
> >
> > Mark
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
> Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours
> to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
> backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> > >
> > > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
> and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> > >
> > > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
> progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> > >
> > > ____
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi all,

I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.

During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.

Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?

____

Tony



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.

This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)

Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do incremental backups during the day.

This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.

After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or what is causing the bi to grow so much.

Mark
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>
> During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>
> Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks Mark,

Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be using 'after imaging'?

Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?

Thanks
____

Tony

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups




Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.

This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)

Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do incremental backups during the day.

This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.

After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or what is causing the bi to grow so much.

Mark
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>
> During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>
> Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This may be completely unacceptable for your environment but how about using
Replication Server on a different machine... it automatically syncs
everything and shouldn't impact performance. If something were to happen
you'll have it there.

Although I am not 100% certain you can move stuff back.
Just a thought.

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon
<tony.wheeldon@...>wrote:

>
>
> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
> find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
> using 'after imaging'?
>
> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>
> Thanks
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mark
> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
>
> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
> have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
> file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
> time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>
> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
> 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
> limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
> pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>
> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
> incremental backups during the day.
>
> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
> have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
> chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>
> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or what
> is causing the bi to grow so much.
>
> Mark
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
> Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours
> to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
> backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> >
> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
> and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> >
> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
> progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, so I looked around a bit and Replication Server (as in Epicor's One) may
not work for that but you can get OpenEdge Replication that seems like
something you may want to look into (if on Progress) I am sure there are
similar solutions for MSSQL

http://web.progress.com/en/openedge/replication.html
<http://web.progress.com/en/openedge/replication.html>

*Jose C Gomez*
*Software Engineer*
*
*T: 904.469.1524 mobile
E: jose@...
http://www.josecgomez.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
<http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/>
<http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*



On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Jose Gomez <jose@...> wrote:

> This may be completely unacceptable for your environment but how about
> using Replication Server on a different machine... it automatically syncs
> everything and shouldn't impact performance. If something were to happen
> you'll have it there.
>
> Although I am not 100% certain you can move stuff back.
> Just a thought.
>
> *Jose C Gomez*
> *Software Engineer*
> *
> *T: 904.469.1524 mobile
> E: jose@...
> http://www.josecgomez.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/josecgomez> <http://www.facebook.com/josegomez>
> <http://www.google.com/profiles/jose.gomez> <http://www.twitter.com/joc85>
> <http://www.josecgomez.com/professional-resume/> <http://www.josecgomez.com/feed/>
>
> *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Mark,
>>
>> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
>> find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
>> using 'after imaging'?
>>
>> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>>
>> Thanks
>> ____
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Mark
>> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
>> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>>
>>
>> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
>> have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
>> file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
>> time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>>
>> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
>> 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
>> limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
>> pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>>
>> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
>> incremental backups during the day.
>>
>> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
>> have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
>> chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>>
>> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
>> what is causing the bi to grow so much.
>>
>> Mark
>> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
>> Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours
>> to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
>> backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>> >
>> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
>> and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>> >
>> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
>> progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>> >
>> > ____
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We do 3 incremental backups on our Progress Vantage 6.1 database during
the day and then a full each night just before the tape backup runs.

Test it on your V8 DB and see how it does. Probably should work.



This is the syntax for our incremental backup's, of course adjust to
your environment.

Good luck.

Jim

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------



@echo off

e:

cd \epicor\prgs91d\bin

probkup.bat online e:\epicor\mfgsys61\db\mfgsys.db incremental
e:\VBackup\backupi.1



------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------





From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Tony Wheeldon
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 6:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups





Thanks Mark,

Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I
can't find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should
we be using 'after imaging'?

Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?

Thanks
____

Tony

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Mark
Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes,
and have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where
the bi file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a
period of time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.

This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add
"-Bp 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10"
would limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private
buffer pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from
support)

Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
incremental backups during the day.

This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the
relevant chapters before I make such a big change to our backup
strategy.

After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
what is causing the bi to grow so much.

Mark
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2
hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data.
The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>
> During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!)
system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>
> Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tony,

You should really be doing AI if you are worried about your data. I have ours set up to save data every 15 minutes. Users don't notice any slow downs.

Epicor has documents on how to set this up. I have scripts that I found on ProgressTalk that work work Linux.

Tom

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>
> During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>
> Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Yes, there are a few admin guides put out by Progress and they can be very
helpful. They will not only help explain how to do incremental backups, but
they will also be a good resource to understand what all those settings are.

10.0B - http://communities.progress.com/pcom/docs/DOC-11328
10.1B - http://communities.progress.com/pcom/docs/DOC-19138
10.1C - http://communities.progress.com/pcom/docs/DOC-47858
10.2A - http://communities.progress.com/pcom/docs/DOC-16281


Ned Cleary
Alternative Technology Partners

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tony Wheeldon
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Thanks Mark,

Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
using 'after imaging'?

Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?

Thanks
____

Tony

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Mark
Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups




Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.

This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)

Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
incremental backups during the day.

This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I have
to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.

After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or what
is causing the bi to grow so much.

Mark
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to
ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup
is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
>
> During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
>
> Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
>
> ____
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Tony,

There is a definitive Open Edge database administration guide available on the Progress web site. As for incremental backups you just add the -io i parameter to the PROBKUP command in your existing backup batch file. The "i" variable is the incremental overlap factor indicating the number of incremental files that could be missing to perform a full backup. So, if you can rely on the prior incremental file to be available the "i" value would be 1. If you want to assume that the prior 2 files would be available the "i" value would be 2. The default value for the -io parameter is 0 and therefore creates a full backup by default.

After imaging is the Open Edge implementation of database journalling. It essentially allows you to return the database to its exact historical state at any past point in time. This feature is very handy for regulatory compliance but unless you have a compelling need to be able recreate your database state as of say October 10, 2009 @ 5:17pm for some reason the additional performance overhead is likely unwarranted.

Hope this helps.

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:

> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be using 'after imaging'?
>
> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>
> Thanks
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>
> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp 10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>
> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do incremental backups during the day.
>
> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>
> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or what is causing the bi to grow so much.
>
> Mark
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> >
> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> >
> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Generally, I always recommend using 2+ for the incremental backups, it just
gives you more security and doesn't cause too much extra in terms of
affecting users.

They should also be written to another server or device whenever possible,
if you end up with a complete failure, it doesn't matter how many backups
you have if you can't access any of them.


Ned Cleary
Alternative Technology Partners




-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Barry
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Tony,

There is a definitive Open Edge database administration guide available on
the Progress web site. As for incremental backups you just add the -io i
parameter to the PROBKUP command in your existing backup batch file. The
"i" variable is the incremental overlap factor indicating the number of
incremental files that could be missing to perform a full backup. So, if
you can rely on the prior incremental file to be available the "i" value
would be 1. If you want to assume that the prior 2 files would be available
the "i" value would be 2. The default value for the -io parameter is 0 and
therefore creates a full backup by default.

After imaging is the Open Edge implementation of database journalling. It
essentially allows you to return the database to its exact historical state
at any past point in time. This feature is very handy for regulatory
compliance but unless you have a compelling need to be able recreate your
database state as of say October 10, 2009 @ 5:17pm for some reason the
additional performance overhead is likely unwarranted.

Hope this helps.

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:

> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
using 'after imaging'?
>
> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>
> Thanks
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark
> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>
> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>
> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
incremental backups during the day.
>
> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>
> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
what is causing the bi to grow so much.
>
> Mark
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours
to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> >
> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> >
> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Thank you to all those who have contributed to this tread so far.

I have trialled incremental backups with the following interesting results.

A full backup, every 2 hours takes 8 minutes and produces a file of 7.5Gb off an 8.1Gb D1 file

An incremental backup, 2 hours after a full backup takes 6 minutes and produces a file of 199Mb

An incremental backup 30 mins after a full backup takes 6 minutes and produces a file of 182Mb

So, there is very little to be gained in time between a full and an incremental; and, an incremental appears to take the same amount of time no matter when it is done.

Seems strange to me


____

Tony

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ned
Sent: 08 April 2011 17:48
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups



Generally, I always recommend using 2+ for the incremental backups, it just
gives you more security and doesn't cause too much extra in terms of
affecting users.

They should also be written to another server or device whenever possible,
if you end up with a complete failure, it doesn't matter how many backups
you have if you can't access any of them.

Ned Cleary
Alternative Technology Partners

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
Michael Barry
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Tony,

There is a definitive Open Edge database administration guide available on
the Progress web site. As for incremental backups you just add the -io i
parameter to the PROBKUP command in your existing backup batch file. The
"i" variable is the incremental overlap factor indicating the number of
incremental files that could be missing to perform a full backup. So, if
you can rely on the prior incremental file to be available the "i" value
would be 1. If you want to assume that the prior 2 files would be available
the "i" value would be 2. The default value for the -io parameter is 0 and
therefore creates a full backup by default.

After imaging is the Open Edge implementation of database journalling. It
essentially allows you to return the database to its exact historical state
at any past point in time. This feature is very handy for regulatory
compliance but unless you have a compelling need to be able recreate your
database state as of say October 10, 2009 @ 5:17pm for some reason the
additional performance overhead is likely unwarranted.

Hope this helps.

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:

> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I can't
find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
using 'after imaging'?
>
> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>
> Thanks
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Mark
> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes, and
have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>
> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add "-Bp
10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>
> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
incremental backups during the day.
>
> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it. I
have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>
> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
what is causing the bi to grow so much.
>
> Mark
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2 hours
to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> >
> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!) system
and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> >
> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for the
progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is completely dependent on the size of your DB to start with, the
number of users you have in the system, and your transaction volumes, all
these variables are why there is no exact settings anyone can give you to
set your own backups.

That backup is different if you have 15 users in the system versus having 60
users in the system, or if you have a 8GB DB versus a 18GB DB, or if you
average 100 transactions an hour versus 25 transactions an hour or some
combination of those situations.

Trial and error is really the only way to get the best solution for your
system.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tony Wheeldon
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Thank you to all those who have contributed to this tread so far.

I have trialled incremental backups with the following interesting results.

A full backup, every 2 hours takes 8 minutes and produces a file of 7.5Gb
off an 8.1Gb D1 file

An incremental backup, 2 hours after a full backup takes 6 minutes and
produces a file of 199Mb

An incremental backup 30 mins after a full backup takes 6 minutes and
produces a file of 182Mb

So, there is very little to be gained in time between a full and an
incremental; and, an incremental appears to take the same amount of time no
matter when it is done.

Seems strange to me


____

Tony

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ned
Sent: 08 April 2011 17:48
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups



Generally, I always recommend using 2+ for the incremental backups, it just
gives you more security and doesn't cause too much extra in terms of
affecting users.

They should also be written to another server or device whenever possible,
if you end up with a complete failure, it doesn't matter how many backups
you have if you can't access any of them.

Ned Cleary
Alternative Technology Partners

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
Of Michael Barry
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:40 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups

Tony,

There is a definitive Open Edge database administration guide available on
the Progress web site. As for incremental backups you just add the -io i
parameter to the PROBKUP command in your existing backup batch file. The "i"
variable is the incremental overlap factor indicating the number of
incremental files that could be missing to perform a full backup. So, if you
can rely on the prior incremental file to be available the "i" value would
be 1. If you want to assume that the prior 2 files would be available the
"i" value would be 2. The default value for the -io parameter is 0 and
therefore creates a full backup by default.

After imaging is the Open Edge implementation of database journalling. It
essentially allows you to return the database to its exact historical state
at any past point in time. This feature is very handy for regulatory
compliance but unless you have a compelling need to be able recreate your
database state as of say October 10, 2009 @ 5:17pm for some reason the
additional performance overhead is likely unwarranted.

Hope this helps.

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Tony Wheeldon wrote:

> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yes, a daily full and hourly incremental would probably be OK, but I
> can't
find any info how to do an incremental backup on progress. Should we be
using 'after imaging'?
>
> Is there a definitive Progress admin guide?
>
> Thanks
> ____
>
> Tony
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf
Of Mark
> Sent: 08 April 2011 10:26
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Progress backups
>
> Hi we are having similar issues 8.03.405a, we backup every 30 minutes,
> and
have been for a couple of years, recently we have had issues where the bi
file grows in size and causes the backup to stall Vantage for a period of
time, can be up to 30 seconds when the bi hits 500mb or more.
>
> This has been logged with Epcior support an the suggestion is to add
> "-Bp
10" at the end of the probkup online command. "parameter "-Bp 10" would
limit the impact of the online backup on users (by using a private buffer
pool instead of flushing the global db memory pool" (from support)
>
> Also it has been suggested that we do a full backup once a day and do
incremental backups during the day.
>
> This only came through today so we have not had time to implement it.
> I
have to look through the Progress Database management guide at the relevant
chapters before I make such a big change to our backup strategy.
>
> After all this I still have no answer why the backup stalls Vantage or
what is causing the bi to grow so much.
>
> Mark
> --- In
> vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vanta
> ge%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony
Wheeldon <tony.wheeldon@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am running Vantage 8.03.409 and doing an on-line backup every 2
> > hours
to ensure, in the event of a failure, we don't lose too much data. The
backup is saving to a local disk and is then copied to a NAS Box.
> >
> > During the backup, users are reporting a slow (more than normal!)
> > system
and perfmon shows high disk q read and write length.
> >
> > Is there any 'transactional' or differential backup available for
> > the
progress database to reduce the effect of the backup?
> >
> > ____
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links