SBServer 4.5 Delimna

[system]

Good advice! I've spent a lot of time convincing upper management here that
we need to rotate hardware upgrades on a three-year schedule. This includes
workstations as well as servers. I do still have some 8 year old printers,
but they're a different story-run great using HP SeriesII drivers:) I
finally pointed out that they buy a new delivery truck every three years-and
it costs a lot more than upgrading (read: replacing) 10 work stations. It's
the "fleet" mentality-after the computer equivalent of 250,000 miles, it
costs more to repair than replace.

Lydia


At 08:41 PM 10/2/2000 , you wrote:

>company is small (and we are) the goal should be to get something
>that will carry us for the most part for 5 years. I think we are

making a costly mistake in trying to buy hardware today to last for five
years. Computer performance levels and obsolescence rates aren't slowing
down anytime soon, and the new stuff just keeps getting less expensive as
well.

[system]

Hi,

My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic on
a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The rest
of them are running Win 95 or 98.

We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as RAID
5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do is
to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.

Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
help.

Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
years for our type of operation.

Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
will run fine.

Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
party software)?

I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)

Thanks, Dorothy
Systems Administrator
Mid-West Spring Mfg.
mailto:denderle@...

[system]

We had WIN-NT SBS 4.5 prior to implementing Vantage but added a second
server running straight NT for Vantage. A lot depends on the size of your
organization and number of clients. SBS, as of last year, now allows a
maximum of 50 users. It also restricts you to one NT domain with the SBS
machine as the primary domain controller. But there are significant cost
benefits for small companies especially for MS-Exchange Server. Speaking of
"server" I would inquire deeply at Epicor about the SBS version of SQL
server being able to handle Vantage in the future running on SQL server
instead of Progress. At the moment I like being able to have Exchange on
one server and devote the other (Netfinity 5500, RAID-mirroring, hot swap
drives, dual power supply) to Vantage. But I can see the day coming where
company growth will force us over 50 users and I am not sure how bad
switching from SBS to NT (probably Win-2000 by then) will be. I suspect I
will need to add a seperate domain for our engineering department to
segregate their CAD traffic on the network and give them their own server.
I am extremely happy with the Netfinity server and will very likely upgrade
to another when we move off of SBS. Another thought - SBS is cheaper up
front but I wonder if there is any migration or upgrade pricing to regular
NT. If you can't get credit for the SBS costs then in the long run it will
be a lot more expensive.

The 486 PCs will have to be upgraded for Vantage. I am having a lot of
trouble with Pentium-75s not allowing Progress Client to be installed. On
some it works and some it does not. The ones with 64MB RAM seem to work
more often so memory may be the key more than CPU but I am sure 486s will
not work. The P-75 systems are agonizingly slow so I bought a bunch of
Celeron 566 systems for $480 each (incl. Win-98 but no monitor or CD) from a
local components supplier to replace our old PCs.

I run several other Aps on the SBS server including the database for ADP PC
Payroll for Windows and sharing several Access .MDB databases. Also Norton
Antivirus Corporate Edition and Veritas BackupExec (SBS version though). So
I don't think the SBS version is very restrictive of other software. Deep
down it is just NT with a license limit. The book from Microsoft Press
"Running BackOffice Small Business Server" states "you'll have a fully
operation NT network" which indicates to me there are no restrictions other
than number of users. Because of the overhead of all the SBS server
products (Exchange, Proxy, SQL, etc...) if you try to run Vantage too I
would get LOTS of extra memory. Our dedicated Vantage server has 512MB so
on a SBS system I would not go with less than 768MB or maybe two 512MB
modules and limp by if one ever fails.

Good luck,
-Todd C.
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
Woodbury, MN



-----Original Message-----
From: D. Enderle [mailto:denderle@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 6:56 PM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Small Business Server 4.5 Delimna


Hi,

My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic on
a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The rest
of them are running Win 95 or 98.

We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as RAID
5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do is
to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.

Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
help.

Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
years for our type of operation.

Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
will run fine.

Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
party software)?

I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)

Thanks, Dorothy
Systems Administrator
Mid-West Spring Mfg.
mailto:denderle@...


We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Dorthy,
We are currently using SBS 4.5 to run Vantage 3.0 with about 25
clients and it runs fairly well. It is running on a 500MHz Pentium
III server and our client machines are a minimum of 300MHz Pentium II
machines. We also migrated from Novell but we were not using
Classic. We basically started with all new machines. Your 486
machines will have to go and it will depend on your budget what type
of machines you replace them with but as a rule you want the fastest
machines that you can afford. Spend the money and get a good Server
Computer because that's the last machine that you want to have
trouble with. If you are like most small companies the hardware will
have to get you through the next 7 to 10 years just to pay for itself
so don't cut yourself short on your hardware. I would also suggest
using Fast Ethernet; it has become very affordable. Small Business
Server is a great value but I think that you might be pushing its
limits if you already have 40 clients. The SBS limits you to one
server machine and 50 clients and one server will start to get
overwhelmed with 40 clients especially on Ethernet. If you only need
a server and a network operating system for running Vantage then just
start with NT Server 4.0 but if you really want to have all of the
toys (Email, Internet Access, SQL Server, etc.) then look into
purchasing Microsoft BackOffice Server.

---original message---

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:56:18 -0000
From: "D. Enderle" <denderle@...>
Subject: Small Business Server 4.5 Delimna

Hi,

My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic on
a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The rest
of them are running Win 95 or 98.

We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as RAID
5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do is
to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.

Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
help.

Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
years for our type of operation.

Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
will run fine.

Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
party software)?

I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)

Thanks, Dorothy
Systems Administrator
Mid-West Spring Mfg.

[system]

Dorothy-

We are currently running on SBS 4.5 as our Vantage server. In brief I would
recommend purchasing a SBS for your Vantage server, since your company
sounds rather small, like ours. Of course, if you plan on expanding the
number of workstations that need server access in the next few years, this
may not be the way to go. You could also consider purchasing what I call
the "Large Business Server," Backoffice 4.5, to handle larger numbers of
users licenses. Don't know how much more that would cost though.

I receive the TechNet CD's from MS. In the latest shipment, I think the new
SBS, based on Windows 2000 Server, was included as a Beta demo. Probably
not a good idea to wait for the next release of SBS-W2K, what with bugs and
all. But be aware that it is coming around the bend! Hopefully the upgrade
will be as cheap and easy as the upgrade from SBS 4.0 to 4.5.

We have 22 workstations running Vantage. We only have 256 Mb in the server
and have no problem with Vantage response time. We are running on a 10/100
base Ethernet network. I would definitely recommend that you replace any
workstations slower than a Pentium 166Mhz. Most of our workstations are PII
or higher.

As you surely know, the number of programs that you get with SBS is a great
savings over what you would pay for a fully licensed version of each
component, but that also means there is just that much more to learn for the
system administrator. But people will (eventually) love you for how you
bring them so much more functionality. (Don't miss the copy of FrontPage on
the SBS 4.5 installation CD's. It requires a separate install onto your
workstation.)

We have had some complications with 3rd party software installing onto the
SBS. Our situation was pretty unique, so I won't go into detail. But we
eventually convinced SBS and the 3rd party software to play nice. Just plan
ahead and verify (and double check) with the manufacturer of the software
that it will not conflict with SBS. Veritas Backup Exec SBS edition is
great for easy backups, but we still use the online backup that Vantage
supplies to safely and easily backup Vantage.

Just take time to plan... It is obvious that you already are... And just as
Ethel says, "You'll be swell! You'll be great! Gonna have the whole world
on a plate..."

Steven Russell
Director of Information Technologies
C&S Machine Products, Inc.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Thanks Todd,

One of the threads of some of the discussions here shows the concern
regarding Epicor and SQL so I will be checking into it. I think that
the goal is in getting the best technology we can that will not only
hold us for the next few years, but also that which is supported by
Epicor. Good point about migration costs down the road with SBS too.
I was wondering just how much RAM I could get by with on my older
Pentiums as they now have only 32MB and tend to bog with Classic so I
will be starting the new PCs out with 64MB... and you just shot my
hope that my one homemade Pentium 100 would work *lol*

Thank you so much!

Dorothy
Mid-West Spring Mfg.
Mentone, IN

--- In vantage@egroups.com, Todd Caughey <caugheyt@h...> wrote:
> We had WIN-NT SBS 4.5 prior to implementing Vantage but added a
second
> server running straight NT for Vantage. A lot depends on the size
of your
> organization and number of clients. SBS, as of last year, now
allows a
> maximum of 50 users. It also restricts you to one NT domain with
the SBS
> machine as the primary domain controller. But there are
significant cost
> benefits for small companies especially for MS-Exchange Server.
Speaking of
> "server" I would inquire deeply at Epicor about the SBS version of
SQL
> server being able to handle Vantage in the future running on SQL
server
> instead of Progress. At the moment I like being able to have
Exchange on
> one server and devote the other (Netfinity 5500, RAID-mirroring,
hot swap
> drives, dual power supply) to Vantage. But I can see the day
coming where
> company growth will force us over 50 users and I am not sure how bad
> switching from SBS to NT (probably Win-2000 by then) will be. I
suspect I
> will need to add a seperate domain for our engineering department to
> segregate their CAD traffic on the network and give them their own
server.
> I am extremely happy with the Netfinity server and will very likely
upgrade
> to another when we move off of SBS. Another thought - SBS is
cheaper up
> front but I wonder if there is any migration or upgrade pricing to
regular
> NT. If you can't get credit for the SBS costs then in the long run
it will
> be a lot more expensive.
>
> The 486 PCs will have to be upgraded for Vantage. I am having a
lot of
> trouble with Pentium-75s not allowing Progress Client to be
installed. On
> some it works and some it does not. The ones with 64MB RAM seem to
work
> more often so memory may be the key more than CPU but I am sure
486s will
> not work. The P-75 systems are agonizingly slow so I bought a
bunch of
> Celeron 566 systems for $480 each (incl. Win-98 but no monitor or
CD) from a
> local components supplier to replace our old PCs.
>
> I run several other Aps on the SBS server including the database
for ADP PC
> Payroll for Windows and sharing several Access .MDB databases.
Also Norton
> Antivirus Corporate Edition and Veritas BackupExec (SBS version
though). So
> I don't think the SBS version is very restrictive of other
software. Deep
> down it is just NT with a license limit. The book from Microsoft
Press
> "Running BackOffice Small Business Server" states "you'll have a
fully
> operation NT network" which indicates to me there are no
restrictions other
> than number of users. Because of the overhead of all the SBS server
> products (Exchange, Proxy, SQL, etc...) if you try to run Vantage
too I
> would get LOTS of extra memory. Our dedicated Vantage server has
512MB so
> on a SBS system I would not go with less than 768MB or maybe two
512MB
> modules and limp by if one ever fails.
>
> Good luck,
> -Todd C.
> Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.
> Woodbury, MN
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D. Enderle [mailto:denderle@r...]
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 6:56 PM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Small Business Server 4.5 Delimna
>
>
> Hi,
>
> My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
> shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic
on
> a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The
rest
> of them are running Win 95 or 98.
>
> We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
> stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
> Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
> migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as
RAID
> 5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do
is
> to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
> currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.
>
> Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
> obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
> help.
>
> Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
> alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
> or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
> have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
> years for our type of operation.
>
> Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
> Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
> out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
> direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
> will run fine.
>
> Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
> other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
> party software)?
>
> I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)
>
> Thanks, Dorothy
> Systems Administrator
> Mid-West Spring Mfg.
> mailto:denderle@r...
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files,
> please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> <http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try
it, go to
> www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups,
> choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above
> will work the next time you try it.)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Hi Bob,

Interesting you should use term "toys" *chuckle* Along with the
server purchase, we are also going to have to get 15 more PCs so that
puts a crimp in the overall budget. One of the PCs I am trying to
configure is a power PC, one that will be used for downloads (FTP),
test installs, web design, graphics and the like. My boss said "Admit
it, its a toy" we dickered back and forth, but you make a good point.
One of the hurdles to overcome in configuring a system (every MIS
persons dream) is to make sure you are designing for the company and
not personal needs... heck that took half the fun out of it! I think
that many of us here would love to design a system with no
restrictions (financial or otherwise). But, like you say, if the
company is small (and we are) the goal should be to get something
that will carry us for the most part for 5 years. I think we are
headed that way. I also think, after reading all the input here, that
SBS is not really the way for us to go.

Thanks

Dorothy
Mid-West Spring Mfg.
Mentone, IN

--- In vantage@egroups.com, "Bob Eury" <beury@h...> wrote:
> Dorthy,
> We are currently using SBS 4.5 to run Vantage 3.0 with about 25
> clients and it runs fairly well. It is running on a 500MHz Pentium
> III server and our client machines are a minimum of 300MHz Pentium
II
> machines. We also migrated from Novell but we were not using
> Classic. We basically started with all new machines. Your 486
> machines will have to go and it will depend on your budget what
type
> of machines you replace them with but as a rule you want the
fastest
> machines that you can afford. Spend the money and get a good
Server
> Computer because that's the last machine that you want to have
> trouble with. If you are like most small companies the hardware
will
> have to get you through the next 7 to 10 years just to pay for
itself
> so don't cut yourself short on your hardware. I would also suggest
> using Fast Ethernet; it has become very affordable. Small Business
> Server is a great value but I think that you might be pushing its
> limits if you already have 40 clients. The SBS limits you to one
> server machine and 50 clients and one server will start to get
> overwhelmed with 40 clients especially on Ethernet. If you only
need
> a server and a network operating system for running Vantage then
just
> start with NT Server 4.0 but if you really want to have all of the
> toys (Email, Internet Access, SQL Server, etc.) then look into
> purchasing Microsoft BackOffice Server.
>
> ---original message---
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:56:18 -0000
> From: "D. Enderle" <denderle@r...>
> Subject: Small Business Server 4.5 Delimna
>
> Hi,
>
> My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
> shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic
on
> a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The
rest
> of them are running Win 95 or 98.
>
> We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
> stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
> Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
> migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as
RAID
> 5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do
is
> to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
> currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.
>
> Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
> obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
> help.
>
> Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
> alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
> or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
> have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
> years for our type of operation.
>
> Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
> Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
> out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
> direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
> will run fine.
>
> Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
> other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
> party software)?
>
> I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)
>
> Thanks, Dorothy
> Systems Administrator
> Mid-West Spring Mfg.

[system]

Hi Steven,

Thanks so much for your input. After reading the responses and other
posts in the archives and talking to a couple of other companies
using Progress (but not Vantage), I think that we would have to look
into the Large Business Server (which I have not heard of). I really
cannot justify the costs in going that way when there is another
alternative that is supported by Epicor at present... that of RAID 1.
I almost chose Windows 2000 but have been reading the bug releases
that are now becoming available.

You and Bob seem to agree about what to do with my 486 machines...
well at least I can use the monitors... I think *lol* I was kind of
hoping that I could utilize one homemade 100MZ Pentium for maybe a
labor node or something, but I believe there was an issue with the
bios when migration to Win 95 began, so even if it would work, I
don't htink the bios would support a 95 environment.

One of the things that helped in the decision was the fact that we
too have quite a bit of 3rd party software. One of them we just
upgraded to the latest and greatest version ($1,500) and it is STILL
not a 32 bit program. I just don't need extra headaches in getting
our other software to work properly. The more problems I have with
other software means the more I have to learn to operate it to fix it
and I don't even use it on a daily basis.

Thanks

Dorothy
Mid-West Spring Mfg.
Mentone, In


--- In vantage@egroups.com, Steven Collings Russell <srussell@q...>
wrote:

> Dorothy-
>
> We are currently running on SBS 4.5 as our Vantage server. In

brief I would

> recommend purchasing a SBS for your Vantage server, since your

company

> sounds rather small, like ours. Of course, if you plan on

expanding the

> number of workstations that need server access in the next few

years, this

> may not be the way to go. You could also consider purchasing what

I call

> the "Large Business Server," Backoffice 4.5, to handle larger

numbers of

> users licenses. Don't know how much more that would cost though.
>
> I receive the TechNet CD's from MS. In the latest shipment, I

think the new

> SBS, based on Windows 2000 Server, was included as a Beta demo.

Probably

> not a good idea to wait for the next release of SBS-W2K, what with

bugs and

> all. But be aware that it is coming around the bend! Hopefully

the upgrade

> will be as cheap and easy as the upgrade from SBS 4.0 to 4.5.
>
> We have 22 workstations running Vantage. We only have 256 Mb in

the server

> and have no problem with Vantage response time. We are running on

a 10/100

> base Ethernet network. I would definitely recommend that you

replace any

> workstations slower than a Pentium 166Mhz. Most of our

workstations are PII

> or higher.
>
> As you surely know, the number of programs that you get with SBS is

a great

> savings over what you would pay for a fully licensed version of each
> component, but that also means there is just that much more to

learn for the

> system administrator. But people will (eventually) love you for

how you

> bring them so much more functionality. (Don't miss the copy of

FrontPage on

> the SBS 4.5 installation CD's. It requires a separate install onto

your

> workstation.)
>
> We have had some complications with 3rd party software installing

onto the

> SBS. Our situation was pretty unique, so I won't go into detail.

But we

> eventually convinced SBS and the 3rd party software to play nice.

Just plan

> ahead and verify (and double check) with the manufacturer of the

software

> that it will not conflict with SBS. Veritas Backup Exec SBS

edition is

> great for easy backups, but we still use the online backup that

Vantage

> supplies to safely and easily backup Vantage.
>
> Just take time to plan... It is obvious that you already are... And

just as

> Ethel says, "You'll be swell! You'll be great! Gonna have the

whole world

> on a plate..."
>
> Steven Russell
> Director of Information Technologies
> C&S Machine Products, Inc.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

Dorothy
Have you considered a Thin Client solution? You can run Metaframe (from
Citrux) on a 2000 server, and keep using your old 486 machines, as well
as old Win95 machines without adding more memory. You would have to do
a cost comparison. Citrix's Metaframe is about $3500 (15 users), plus
Terminal Server CAL's at I think $79 ea.

"D. Enderle" wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My name is Dorothy and I work for a small spring manufacturing job
> shop with about 40 nodes. At present, we are still running Classic on
> a Novell server. Many of our machines are 486 DOS based PCs. The rest
> of them are running Win 95 or 98.
>
> We are in the process of migrating to Vantage 4.0 and in the final
> stages of selecting our server. I have almost lived here in the
> Vantage E-groups while researching all the possible ways to do this
> migration by reading what you have all posted on topics such as RAID
> 5, yes or no. Windows 2000, yes or no. What we have decided to do is
> to go with NT 4 and mirroring, as Epicor does not
> currently "formally" support either Windows 2000 or RAID 5.
>
> Now that we are down to the wire in the selection process, another
> obstacle has come up and I could use some input from anyone who can
> help.
>
> Since the decision to stay with NT 4 has been made, another
> alternative for us has come up that I need some input on... whether
> or not to go with Microsoft Small Business Server 4.5. It seems to
> have many of the features we need both now and within the next few
> years for our type of operation.
>
> Does the Vantage software have any problems with MS Small Business
> Server? I have had one PC support place not even let me get SBS 4.5
> out of my mouth before telling me that I am heading in the wrong
> direction and another service center who takes the postion that it
> will run fine.
>
> Does purchasing SBS mean that it has to be a server of its own? Can
> other apps be installed on the SBS other than MS Office (i.e. 3rd
> party software)?
>
> I can use any tips and suggestions anybody can provide :-)
>
> Thanks, Dorothy
> Systems Administrator
> Mid-West Spring Mfg.
> mailto:denderle@...
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
> Files, please go to the following link:
> http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it,
> go to www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose
> My Groups, choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the
> password, the link above will work the next time you try it.)

--
Britt Moelling
M&M Manufacturing Co., Inc.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[system]

At 08:41 PM 10/2/2000 , you wrote:

>company is small (and we are) the goal should be to get something
>that will carry us for the most part for 5 years. I think we are

Dorothy, there are lots of differing opinions on this, but I think you
would be making a costly mistake in trying to buy hardware today to last
for five years. Computer performance levels and obsolescence rates aren't
slowing down anytime soon, and the new stuff just keeps getting less
expensive as well.

If you need another 10Gb of disk in a year, I *Guarantee* you it Will Be
Cheaper one year from now! (though you might not find drives that small !)
Consider this: If you had bought a "Big & Bad" server in Oct 1995
intending to get five years out of it you might have something like: Dual
Pentium-Pro 133, 196MB RAM, multiple SCSI controllers, four 1.6GB SCSI
drives, and multiple 10BT NICS. This might have set you back about
$20,000. You know how that system rates today? Most new < $1k desktops
with IDE disks will blow it away! Come to think of it, the $580 Vantage
workstations I built almost 12 mos ago probably would :)

Look for expandability in server hardware: a 2nd CPU option, extra drive
bays, addl SCSI controller. But don't buy memory, CPU, or disk that you
won't be needing in the short-term.

-Wayne Cox

[system]

I absolutely agree - what you buy today will be cheaper and better tomorrow.
But at most places I have been, including now, when proposing a big project
(like converting from Classic to Vantage) you set a budget and struggle for
approval. And heaven help you if you have to go back for more $$$.
Calculating the ROI over a period of several years tends to create a mind
set that this is all you will need for several years. Unless there are
circumstances such as business growth to justify more hardware it is often a
lot easier to propose the sun, moon and stars up front - settle for the sun
and moon and hope there are good reasons to justify anything that is needed
later. Most MIS managers I know all realize this type of planning is
inefficient but it is a rare organization that will allow you to fine tune
technology, budget and purchase timing. At least I have our CFO
understanding the useful "window" is 3 years not the old 5 years from
depreciation schedules so I can go back to "the well" a little sooner.

-Todd Caughey

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Cox [mailto:wmc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 9:09 AM
To: vantage@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: SBServer 4.5 Delimna


At 08:41 PM 10/2/2000 , you wrote:

>company is small (and we are) the goal should be to get something
>that will carry us for the most part for 5 years. I think we are

Dorothy, there are lots of differing opinions on this, but I think you
would be making a costly mistake in trying to buy hardware today to last
for five years. Computer performance levels and obsolescence rates aren't
slowing down anytime soon, and the new stuff just keeps getting less
expensive as well.

If you need another 10Gb of disk in a year, I *Guarantee* you it Will Be
Cheaper one year from now! (though you might not find drives that small !)
Consider this: If you had bought a "Big & Bad" server in Oct 1995
intending to get five years out of it you might have something like: Dual
Pentium-Pro 133, 196MB RAM, multiple SCSI controllers, four 1.6GB SCSI
drives, and multiple 10BT NICS. This might have set you back about
$20,000. You know how that system rates today? Most new < $1k desktops
with IDE disks will blow it away! Come to think of it, the $580 Vantage
workstations I built almost 12 mos ago probably would :)

Look for expandability in server hardware: a 2nd CPU option, extra drive
bays, addl SCSI controller. But don't buy memory, CPU, or disk that you
won't be needing in the short-term.

-Wayne Cox


We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report Files,
please go to the following link: http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
<http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/>
(Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try it, go to
www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My Groups,
choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the link above
will work the next time you try it.)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]