Progress has a deep history with Epicor dating back to Bill Borg and DCD and
they have over a decade of legacy 4GL code built up in the Vantage product
so it's little surprise that they have evolved together into OE10. As a
database, Progress's relative merits ride very closely to it's deployment
platform...Java. In general, Progress requires very little administration,
is highly scaleable and supports a wide variety of platforms. Because it
tries to remain platform agnostic, however, it lacks many of the Windows
specific integration features that users of SQL Server enjoy. Compared to
installing and maintaining say, Oracle or DB2, Progress is a breeze.

That being said, and more germane to the performance thread, Windows is
probably the worst platform on which to deploy Progress applications. The
Windows JRE is one of the least efficient in terms of its ability to utilize
OS resources and hence inherently hampers OE10 applications. Additionally,
the application server model of V8 requires so many simultaneous Java
threads to be executed that, unless you are running a quad Xeon with
hyperthreading enabled, the application will be thread bound and suffer the
accompanying performance degradation. There are ways to make application
server based applications just fly but, generally speaking, throwing them on
a PC on steroids isn't one of them.

For those with a penchant for database obscurata, you can find DB nirvana
at:

http://www.matisse.com

Michael

p.s. Thanks John!

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Frank Zeigafuse
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:33 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Spam RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

Between you and me I think epicor is financially tied to progress someway.
My experience it is very average database.

Innovative Office Products, Inc.
Frank Zeigafuse
General Manager
610-559-6369
fzeigafuse@...

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

I'd like to say thanks to everyone for the info. It's been really
enlightening. My DB installation experience was different than described
below. My Vantage reps tried really hard to convince me to use Progress a
year ago. I took that to mean that Progress was #1 in their eyes. I've never
regretted our decision to use SQL and I can't wait to test this in a 2005
environment. Thanks again to everyone!

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "John Sykes" <john.sykes@k...> wrote:
>
> The Progress/OpenEdge bits/DBs are "Schema Holders" that map app
colums
> to the actual SQL columns/tables. No data is there -- it's just an
> additional abstraction-layer. In some sense, this is a very good
thing
> (database freedom)
>
> It bloody cool, though -- I can backup a live MS SQL database in
less
> than a minute and roll it into a test/dev instance in about the
same
> time. Run a SQL script to update the SYSTEMTASKAGENT parameters and
> change the company name (>>TEST>>KALEIDESCAPE<<TEST<<, etc.) and
we're
> off to the races.
>
> Like most of the other folks, V8 is not too fast, ever -- Michael
Barry
> posted an EXCELLENT primer on .NET that really opened my eyes to
some of
> the global performance issues associated with some .NET
implementations.
> The meat of his comments are also pasted below.
>
> Here's my canned answer to this stuff from previous posts:
>
> "I posted this in early September. While we're not in a position
to do a
> direct comparison (i.e. we don't have 8.0 on a Progress-only
> environment, too...), there seems to be no current downside to
being on
> SQL. It just works and, in our case, I don't feel like we are a
second
> class citizen since we're running on/under SQL Server. By the way,
when
> SQL Server 2005 is certified, things are likely to get even better
in
> terms of being able to manage/optimize the system. There was an
> effective presentation at Perspectives this year making that
point. My
> opinion of our SQL-based implementation has not changed in the
nearly 60
> days since the following was originally posted:
>
> We're a new Vantage 8.0.802b customer and are using SQL Server
2000. We
> did a ton of due diligence on the database selection issue and we
> learned from Epicor that prior to 8.0 there were SIGNIFICANT
advantages
> to being on Progress. With the new Progress OpenEdge 10.0
development
> environment that is the foundation for the 8.0 Vantage product,
it's my
> understanding that the gap has been substantially narrowed and
that a
> "native" Progress installation will only have a 3 to 4%
performance edge
> over a SQL-based installation. The message I got from very seasoned
> Epicor sources was "Go with what you've got -- If you're already
> supporting a SQL Server and know how to administer it, you're
better off
> sticking with it"
>
> I gave Epicor every opportunity to tell me to use Progress and they
> stuck to the "Go with what you know" line. We're not yet in
production
> and I have no historical basis for comparison, but the development
and
> test environments we're running are certainly not DB-bound from
what I
> can tell.
>
> John Sykes
> Kaleidescape, Inc."
>
> V8 Performance, posted by:
>
> Michael Barry
> Aspacia Systems Inc
> 866.566.9600
> 312.803.0730 fax
> http://www.aspacia.com/
>
> "As Bob noted earlier, the real avenue to improve application
response
> with
> V8 is with the workstation CPU and disk access. The reason for
this is
> twofold. First, .NET requires that client code residing on the
> workstation go through a JIT compiler on the first execution. That's
> why the
code
> executes slowly on the first execution and rapidly on the second.
It
> gets
> compiled and loaded into memory in its machine state for execution
> subsequent times. This is why the amount of workstation memory is
so
> critical to V8 performance. The more memory, the more compiled
code can
> be
> cached into memory for subsequent access. It's also why the local
CPU
> throughput is so important. The speed of the initial load of a V8
> module will be significantly impacted by the speed with which the
workstation
> can
> compile the .NET CRL code so a fast CPU will make a huge
difference for
> the
> user experience. Second is that the rather bloated Infragistics UI
> components that comprise the V8 interface take time to be
retrieved from
> local storage and processed. The faster the components can be
loaded
> into
> memory and compiled, the faster the user experience."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:23 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> Correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought Progress OpenEdge was in
> essence a "connector" to all databases - including Progress. It
sits
> between the .net front end and the actual DB, whichever DB that
would
> be. The OpenEdge does not really "translate" Progress to SQL as
much as
> allow the business logic layer to issue DB commands. Right? -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf
> Of Thomas Wojewoda
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
> connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would
have
> come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption,
the
> more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
> something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that
can be
> distinguished from a Singer typewriter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but
this is
> our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
> suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL
application.
> Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and
the
> database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the
gurus care
> to comment on this?
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
> >
> > How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can
> compare
> > performance?
> >
> > Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> > Frank Zeigafuse
> > General Manager
> > 610-559-6369
> > fzeigafuse@l...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > swinky68
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
> >
> >
> > Hi Brinda,
> >
> > We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron Cole
> > IT Manager, IED Inc.
> > rcole@i...
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack
of
> > > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.
> If
> > you
> > > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we
> would
> > > appreciate an email.
> > >
> > > Brinda Whitaker
> > > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > > Brinda@o...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ********************
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you
> are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information
contained
> herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If
you
> received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the
> sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic
> or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group " vantage
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Ron,

Right on target.

The question here is if Vantage, written in progress, will be running
on top of the Progress Database or on top of the MS-SQL database.

If it is to be MS-SQL then we will probably have to purchase the MS-
SQL database license.

It may also end up that if ERA's financials and or Clientele systems
are linked to the MS-SQL data base that you would only have to
convert if you wanted to use those modules.

Lot's of confusion out there on this issue.

Todd Anderson

--- In vantage@egroups.com, "Ron Newell" <rnewell@n...> wrote:
> The way I understand it is Vantage will always be written in
Progress but
> can read a Progress or SQL database. Just as a program written in
C++ or
> Visual Basic can read more than one kind of database.
>
> Ron Newell
> Neon Products
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@j...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 2:06 PM
> To: vantage@egroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> Tim,
>
> Will the EPICOR ERA financials and / or Clientele products, which
run
> on MS-SQL, be linked to the MS-SQL version of Vantage or to the
> Progress version of Vantage ?
>
> How does this tie into EPICOR's stated policy of having all products
> running on MS-SQL ?
>
> Todd Anderson
>
> --- In vantage@egroups.com, Timothy Lueder <tlueder@e...> wrote:
> > I'd like to dispel some of the rumors that have been floating
> around about
> > SQL Server and Vantage. First, Progress is not going away.
> Progress is
> > great, proven database and toolset. It's the code of our system.
> It
> > provides many advantages for us and for our customers, easy to
use,
> self
> > tuning, small footprint, and it's very scalable. With the Cairo
> release of
> > Vantage, SQL Server 7.0 will be supported as a database engine for
> Vantage.
> > It is not a replacement, only another database engine that Vantage
> supports.
> > The development ideal was to have one set of code that could run
on
> multiple
> > database engines. Let's face it, SQL Server is a popular
> database. As
> > such, we need to be sensitive to the needs of customers who, for
> whatever
> > reason, corporate standards or in-house expertise, feel that the
> SQL Server
> > database engine is a mandatory feature in their software. As
such,
> we added
> > that capability to Vantage. Support for SQL Server does not take
> any
> > resources away from feature/functionality development due to our
> > implementation for SQL Server support. Vantage on SQL Server will
> run as
> > fast as any application running against SQL Server. As with any
> business
> > decision, if you are thinking about moving to SQL Server, do your
> research.
> > We are available to answer any questions you have.
> >
> > If you have any questions or comments, feel free to email me
> directly.
> >
> > Tim Lueder
> > Product Manager - Vantage
> > Epicor Software Corporation
> > tlueder@e... <mailto:tlueder@e...>
> > Office: 612.417.5253
> > Mobile: 612.810.4356
>
>
>
>
> We no longer allow attachments to files. To access/share Report
Files,
> please go to the following link:
http://www.egroups.com/files/vantage/
> (Note: If this link does not work for you the first time you try
it, go to
> www.egroups.com, login and be sure to save your password, choose My
Groups,
> choose Vantage, then choose Files. If you save the password, the
link above
> will work the next time you try it.)

We are rolling out V8 now, hoping to go live on 3-1. We are using SQL
2000 and I can answer most of your questions (or at least try), just
give me a call.

Don

330-479-4258

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of symmetrymedical
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage SQL

Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack of
support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group. If you
know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we would
appreciate an email.

Brinda Whitaker
Symmetry Medical Othy
Brinda@...

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softw
are&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database
+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software
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tabase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software
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base+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufactur
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwa
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marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Da
tabase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manu
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abase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>

________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

V8, 804???

Slow, but it doesn't seem to be SQL related at this point. In comparing
it to a Progress version (different hardware) and from having our Epicor
installation person working with it, they all seem to perform roughly
the same; slow. We are currently running V5.2 on Progress.

Don

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Frank Zeigafuse
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:24 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

Sorry to but in but I have questions :)
What version of Vantage?

How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can compare
performance?

Innovative Office Products, Inc.
Frank Zeigafuse
General Manager
610-559-6369
fzeigafuse@...

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

Hi Brinda,

We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?

Thanks,

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...> wrote:
>
> Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack of
> support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group. If
you
> know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we would
> appreciate an email.
>
> Brinda Whitaker
> Symmetry Medical Othy
> Brinda@o...
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

SPONSORED LINKS

Manufacturing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Manufacturing+software&w1=Manufactu
ring+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softw
are&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database
+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=OG5F3819UOUOg63i0bu6kA>

Membership database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Da
tabase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=N5BGdur84p-jyuOomcQdbQ>

Database mortgage software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+mortgage+software&w1=Manuf
acturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+s
oftware&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Data
base+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=8rvcSQnCqJhTCZu-0Si39A>

Pda database software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pda+database+software&w1=Manufactur
ing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+softwa
re&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Database+
marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=u3KQrTRPAQfsWIT39aHDkg>

Database management software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Man
ufacturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage
+software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Da
tabase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=R3CF3ODPY4gwjDZjykQYvw>

Database marketing software
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+marketing+software&w1=Manu
facturing+software&w2=Membership+database+software&w3=Database+mortgage+
software&w4=Pda+database+software&w5=Database+management+software&w6=Dat
abase+marketing+software&c=6&s=188&.sig=lmBkRUiBtvHI1u5dkymDcw>

________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would have
come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption, the
more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that can be
distinguished from a Singer typewriter.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but this is
our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL application.
Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and the
database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the gurus care
to comment on this?

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
wrote:

>
> Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
>
> How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can

compare

> performance?
>
> Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> Frank Zeigafuse
> General Manager
> 610-559-6369
> fzeigafuse@l...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> Hi Brinda,
>
> We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>

wrote:

> >
> > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack of
> > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.

> you
> > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we

would

> > appreciate an email.
> >
> > Brinda Whitaker
> > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > Brinda@o...
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must have

> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought Progress OpenEdge was in essence a "connector" to all databases - including Progress. It sits between the .net front end and the actual DB, whichever DB that would be. The OpenEdge does not really "translate" Progress to SQL as much as allow the business logic layer to issue DB commands. Right?
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Thomas Wojewoda
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would have
come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption, the
more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that can be
distinguished from a Singer typewriter.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but this is
our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL application.
Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and the
database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the gurus care
to comment on this?

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
wrote:

>
> Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
>
> How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can

compare

> performance?
>
> Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> Frank Zeigafuse
> General Manager
> 610-559-6369
> fzeigafuse@l...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> Hi Brinda,
>
> We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>

wrote:

> >
> > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack of
> > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.

> you
> > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we

would

> > appreciate an email.
> >
> > Brinda Whitaker
> > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > Brinda@o...
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must have

> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group " vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

_____

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Progress/OpenEdge bits/DBs are "Schema Holders" that map app colums
to the actual SQL columns/tables. No data is there -- it's just an
additional abstraction-layer. In some sense, this is a very good thing
(database freedom)

It bloody cool, though -- I can backup a live MS SQL database in less
than a minute and roll it into a test/dev instance in about the same
time. Run a SQL script to update the SYSTEMTASKAGENT parameters and
change the company name (>>TEST>>KALEIDESCAPE<<TEST<<, etc.) and we're
off to the races.

Like most of the other folks, V8 is not too fast, ever -- Michael Barry
posted an EXCELLENT primer on .NET that really opened my eyes to some of
the global performance issues associated with some .NET implementations.
The meat of his comments are also pasted below.

Here's my canned answer to this stuff from previous posts:

"I posted this in early September. While we're not in a position to do a
direct comparison (i.e. we don't have 8.0 on a Progress-only
environment, too...), there seems to be no current downside to being on
SQL. It just works and, in our case, I don't feel like we are a second
class citizen since we're running on/under SQL Server. By the way, when
SQL Server 2005 is certified, things are likely to get even better in
terms of being able to manage/optimize the system. There was an
effective presentation at Perspectives this year making that point. My
opinion of our SQL-based implementation has not changed in the nearly 60
days since the following was originally posted:

We're a new Vantage 8.0.802b customer and are using SQL Server 2000. We
did a ton of due diligence on the database selection issue and we
learned from Epicor that prior to 8.0 there were SIGNIFICANT advantages
to being on Progress. With the new Progress OpenEdge 10.0 development
environment that is the foundation for the 8.0 Vantage product, it's my
understanding that the gap has been substantially narrowed and that a
"native" Progress installation will only have a 3 to 4% performance edge
over a SQL-based installation. The message I got from very seasoned
Epicor sources was "Go with what you've got -- If you're already
supporting a SQL Server and know how to administer it, you're better off
sticking with it"

I gave Epicor every opportunity to tell me to use Progress and they
stuck to the "Go with what you know" line. We're not yet in production
and I have no historical basis for comparison, but the development and
test environments we're running are certainly not DB-bound from what I
can tell.

John Sykes
Kaleidescape, Inc."

V8 Performance, posted by:

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
866.566.9600
312.803.0730 fax
http://www.aspacia.com/

"As Bob noted earlier, the real avenue to improve application response
with
V8 is with the workstation CPU and disk access. The reason for this is
twofold. First, .NET requires that client code residing on the
workstation
go through a JIT compiler on the first execution. That's why the code
executes slowly on the first execution and rapidly on the second. It
gets
compiled and loaded into memory in its machine state for execution
subsequent times. This is why the amount of workstation memory is so
critical to V8 performance. The more memory, the more compiled code can
be
cached into memory for subsequent access. It's also why the local CPU
throughput is so important. The speed of the initial load of a V8
module
will be significantly impacted by the speed with which the workstation
can
compile the .NET CRL code so a fast CPU will make a huge difference for
the
user experience. Second is that the rather bloated Infragistics UI
components that comprise the V8 interface take time to be retrieved from
local storage and processed. The faster the components can be loaded
into
memory and compiled, the faster the user experience."

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:23 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought Progress OpenEdge was in
essence a "connector" to all databases - including Progress. It sits
between the .net front end and the actual DB, whichever DB that would
be. The OpenEdge does not really "translate" Progress to SQL as much as
allow the business logic layer to issue DB commands. Right?
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Thomas Wojewoda
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:48 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would have
come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption, the
more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that can be
distinguished from a Singer typewriter.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but this is
our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL application.
Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and the
database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the gurus care
to comment on this?

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
wrote:

>
> Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
>
> How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can

compare

> performance?
>
> Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> Frank Zeigafuse
> General Manager
> 610-559-6369
> fzeigafuse@l...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> Hi Brinda,
>
> We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>

wrote:

> >
> > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack of
> > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.

> you
> > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we

would

> > appreciate an email.
> >
> > Brinda Whitaker
> > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > Brinda@o...
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must have

> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder and

> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you
are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained
herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you
received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the
sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic
or hard copy format. Thank you.

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group " vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

_____

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

I'd like to say thanks to everyone for the info. It's been really
enlightening. My DB installation experience was different than
described below. My Vantage reps tried really hard to convince me to
use Progress a year ago. I took that to mean that Progress was #1 in
their eyes. I've never regretted our decision to use SQL and I can't
wait to test this in a 2005 environment. Thanks again to everyone!

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "John Sykes" <john.sykes@k...> wrote:
>
> The Progress/OpenEdge bits/DBs are "Schema Holders" that map app
colums
> to the actual SQL columns/tables. No data is there -- it's just an
> additional abstraction-layer. In some sense, this is a very good
thing
> (database freedom)
>
> It bloody cool, though -- I can backup a live MS SQL database in
less
> than a minute and roll it into a test/dev instance in about the
same
> time. Run a SQL script to update the SYSTEMTASKAGENT parameters and
> change the company name (>>TEST>>KALEIDESCAPE<<TEST<<, etc.) and
we're
> off to the races.
>
> Like most of the other folks, V8 is not too fast, ever -- Michael
Barry
> posted an EXCELLENT primer on .NET that really opened my eyes to
some of
> the global performance issues associated with some .NET
implementations.
> The meat of his comments are also pasted below.
>
> Here's my canned answer to this stuff from previous posts:
>
> "I posted this in early September. While we're not in a position
to do a
> direct comparison (i.e. we don't have 8.0 on a Progress-only
> environment, too...), there seems to be no current downside to
being on
> SQL. It just works and, in our case, I don't feel like we are a
second
> class citizen since we're running on/under SQL Server. By the way,
when
> SQL Server 2005 is certified, things are likely to get even better
in
> terms of being able to manage/optimize the system. There was an
> effective presentation at Perspectives this year making that
point. My
> opinion of our SQL-based implementation has not changed in the
nearly 60
> days since the following was originally posted:
>
> We're a new Vantage 8.0.802b customer and are using SQL Server
2000. We
> did a ton of due diligence on the database selection issue and we
> learned from Epicor that prior to 8.0 there were SIGNIFICANT
advantages
> to being on Progress. With the new Progress OpenEdge 10.0
development
> environment that is the foundation for the 8.0 Vantage product,
it's my
> understanding that the gap has been substantially narrowed and
that a
> "native" Progress installation will only have a 3 to 4%
performance edge
> over a SQL-based installation. The message I got from very seasoned
> Epicor sources was "Go with what you've got -- If you're already
> supporting a SQL Server and know how to administer it, you're
better off
> sticking with it"
>
> I gave Epicor every opportunity to tell me to use Progress and they
> stuck to the "Go with what you know" line. We're not yet in
production
> and I have no historical basis for comparison, but the development
and
> test environments we're running are certainly not DB-bound from
what I
> can tell.
>
> John Sykes
> Kaleidescape, Inc."
>
> V8 Performance, posted by:
>
> Michael Barry
> Aspacia Systems Inc
> 866.566.9600
> 312.803.0730 fax
> http://www.aspacia.com/
>
> "As Bob noted earlier, the real avenue to improve application
response
> with
> V8 is with the workstation CPU and disk access. The reason for
this is
> twofold. First, .NET requires that client code residing on the
> workstation
> go through a JIT compiler on the first execution. That's why the
code
> executes slowly on the first execution and rapidly on the second.
It
> gets
> compiled and loaded into memory in its machine state for execution
> subsequent times. This is why the amount of workstation memory is
so
> critical to V8 performance. The more memory, the more compiled
code can
> be
> cached into memory for subsequent access. It's also why the local
CPU
> throughput is so important. The speed of the initial load of a V8
> module
> will be significantly impacted by the speed with which the
workstation
> can
> compile the .NET CRL code so a fast CPU will make a huge
difference for
> the
> user experience. Second is that the rather bloated Infragistics UI
> components that comprise the V8 interface take time to be
retrieved from
> local storage and processed. The faster the components can be
loaded
> into
> memory and compiled, the faster the user experience."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:23 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> Correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought Progress OpenEdge was in
> essence a "connector" to all databases - including Progress. It
sits
> between the .net front end and the actual DB, whichever DB that
would
> be. The OpenEdge does not really "translate" Progress to SQL as
much as
> allow the business logic layer to issue DB commands. Right?
> -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf
> Of Thomas Wojewoda
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
> connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would
have
> come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption,
the
> more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
> something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that
can be
> distinguished from a Singer typewriter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but
this is
> our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
> suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL
application.
> Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and
the
> database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the
gurus care
> to comment on this?
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
> >
> > How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can
> compare
> > performance?
> >
> > Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> > Frank Zeigafuse
> > General Manager
> > 610-559-6369
> > fzeigafuse@l...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > swinky68
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
> >
> >
> > Hi Brinda,
> >
> > We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron Cole
> > IT Manager, IED Inc.
> > rcole@i...
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack
of
> > > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.
> If
> > you
> > > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we
> would
> > > appreciate an email.
> > >
> > > Brinda Whitaker
> > > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > > Brinda@o...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ********************
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you
> are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information
contained
> herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If
you
> received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the
> sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic
> or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group " vantage
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Between you and me I think epicor is financially tied to progress someway.
My experience it is very average database.

Innovative Office Products, Inc.
Frank Zeigafuse
General Manager
610-559-6369
fzeigafuse@...

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
swinky68
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:01 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL

I'd like to say thanks to everyone for the info. It's been really
enlightening. My DB installation experience was different than
described below. My Vantage reps tried really hard to convince me to
use Progress a year ago. I took that to mean that Progress was #1 in
their eyes. I've never regretted our decision to use SQL and I can't
wait to test this in a 2005 environment. Thanks again to everyone!

Ron Cole
IT Manager, IED Inc.
rcole@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "John Sykes" <john.sykes@k...> wrote:
>
> The Progress/OpenEdge bits/DBs are "Schema Holders" that map app
colums
> to the actual SQL columns/tables. No data is there -- it's just an
> additional abstraction-layer. In some sense, this is a very good
thing
> (database freedom)
>
> It bloody cool, though -- I can backup a live MS SQL database in
less
> than a minute and roll it into a test/dev instance in about the
same
> time. Run a SQL script to update the SYSTEMTASKAGENT parameters and
> change the company name (>>TEST>>KALEIDESCAPE<<TEST<<, etc.) and
we're
> off to the races.
>
> Like most of the other folks, V8 is not too fast, ever -- Michael
Barry
> posted an EXCELLENT primer on .NET that really opened my eyes to
some of
> the global performance issues associated with some .NET
implementations.
> The meat of his comments are also pasted below.
>
> Here's my canned answer to this stuff from previous posts:
>
> "I posted this in early September. While we're not in a position
to do a
> direct comparison (i.e. we don't have 8.0 on a Progress-only
> environment, too...), there seems to be no current downside to
being on
> SQL. It just works and, in our case, I don't feel like we are a
second
> class citizen since we're running on/under SQL Server. By the way,
when
> SQL Server 2005 is certified, things are likely to get even better
in
> terms of being able to manage/optimize the system. There was an
> effective presentation at Perspectives this year making that
point. My
> opinion of our SQL-based implementation has not changed in the
nearly 60
> days since the following was originally posted:
>
> We're a new Vantage 8.0.802b customer and are using SQL Server
2000. We
> did a ton of due diligence on the database selection issue and we
> learned from Epicor that prior to 8.0 there were SIGNIFICANT
advantages
> to being on Progress. With the new Progress OpenEdge 10.0
development
> environment that is the foundation for the 8.0 Vantage product,
it's my
> understanding that the gap has been substantially narrowed and
that a
> "native" Progress installation will only have a 3 to 4%
performance edge
> over a SQL-based installation. The message I got from very seasoned
> Epicor sources was "Go with what you've got -- If you're already
> supporting a SQL Server and know how to administer it, you're
better off
> sticking with it"
>
> I gave Epicor every opportunity to tell me to use Progress and they
> stuck to the "Go with what you know" line. We're not yet in
production
> and I have no historical basis for comparison, but the development
and
> test environments we're running are certainly not DB-bound from
what I
> can tell.
>
> John Sykes
> Kaleidescape, Inc."
>
> V8 Performance, posted by:
>
> Michael Barry
> Aspacia Systems Inc
> 866.566.9600
> 312.803.0730 fax
> http://www.aspacia.com/
>
> "As Bob noted earlier, the real avenue to improve application
response
> with
> V8 is with the workstation CPU and disk access. The reason for
this is
> twofold. First, .NET requires that client code residing on the
> workstation go through a JIT compiler on the first execution. That's
> why the
code
> executes slowly on the first execution and rapidly on the second.
It
> gets
> compiled and loaded into memory in its machine state for execution
> subsequent times. This is why the amount of workstation memory is
so
> critical to V8 performance. The more memory, the more compiled
code can
> be
> cached into memory for subsequent access. It's also why the local
CPU
> throughput is so important. The speed of the initial load of a V8
> module will be significantly impacted by the speed with which the
workstation
> can
> compile the .NET CRL code so a fast CPU will make a huge
difference for
> the
> user experience. Second is that the rather bloated Infragistics UI
> components that comprise the V8 interface take time to be
retrieved from
> local storage and processed. The faster the components can be
loaded
> into
> memory and compiled, the faster the user experience."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Todd Caughey
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:23 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> Correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought Progress OpenEdge was in
> essence a "connector" to all databases - including Progress. It
sits
> between the .net front end and the actual DB, whichever DB that
would
> be. The OpenEdge does not really "translate" Progress to SQL as
much as
> allow the business logic layer to issue DB commands. Right? -Todd C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf
> Of Thomas Wojewoda
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
>
> You are kidding! They wrote a .Net application and still use a DB
> connector to translate fro progress to sql? I thought they would
have
> come to their senses and gotten rid of that forsaken contraption,
the
> more I hear about 8.0, the more I look for a different solution,
> something a little more ahead of the game in IT, something that
can be
> distinguished from a Singer typewriter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of swinky68
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:11 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
>
> We're on 805e. Performance can be a bit sluggish sometimes, but
this is
> our first Vantage install, so I can't compare to Progress. I have
> suspicions that it would be faster if it was a native SQL
application.
> Since there is a Progress "connector" between the application and
the
> database, I'd guess this could affect performance. Any of the
gurus care
> to comment on this?
>
> Ron Cole
> IT Manager, IED Inc.
> rcole@i...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to but in but I have questions :) What version of Vantage?
> >
> > How is performance? Did you run vantage on progress, so you can
> compare
> > performance?
> >
> > Innovative Office Products, Inc.
> > Frank Zeigafuse
> > General Manager
> > 610-559-6369
> > fzeigafuse@l...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > swinky68
> > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:59 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage SQL
> >
> >
> > Hi Brinda,
> >
> > We're running Vantage on SQL. What questions do you have?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron Cole
> > IT Manager, IED Inc.
> > rcole@i...
> >
> > --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "symmetrymedical" <brinda@o...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you know of any company that has gone to the SQL version of
> > > Vantage? I posted the question on the user group but the lack
of
> > > support from Epicor seems to have consummed the Vantage Group.
> If
> > you
> > > know of any companies that would be willing to talk with us we
> would
> > > appreciate an email.
> > >
> > > Brinda Whitaker
> > > Symmetry Medical Othy
> > > Brinda@o...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must have
> > already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder and
> > Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ********************
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged,
> confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you
> are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information
contained
> herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If
you
> received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the
> sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic
> or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group " vantage
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must
> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder
> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links