V 6.1 General Ledger Print Preview

Sorry for such a late response. The issue is that the print preview
is not ledge able. The characters/font are squeezed too tightly for
a screen preview. This is the only report that is doing this. I
have adjusted the ini file to no avail.

My resolution is to use Microsoft Office Document Image Writer in
lieu of the print preview.


Mike
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Hansen" <lhansen@...> wrote:
>
> You say you have an issue, but don't say what it is. Are you not
able
> to do a print preview of the GL? We haven't had that problem.
>
> As far as Acrobat, we found that it doesn't work well for certain
> things such as printing while using Terminal Services to access
> Vantage. We found a shareware program, PDF Creator, that has
worked
> very well for us. Any server that we may have set up for TS
access
> has that loaded instead of Acrobat.
>
> Lee Hansen
> Director of IT
> Netcom, Inc.
> Office: 847-484-0190
> Cell: 262-617-6696
> lhansen@...
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Gilchrist" <mikeg.ptc@>
wrote:
> >
> > We are about to go live with 6.1 and the only issue that I have
is
> > print preview of the general ledger.
> >
> > I worked with support trying to adjust the ini file with no
solution
> > to my problem. It has also been suggested to use Image Writer
> instead
> > of Acrobat Distiller. Has anyone else had this issue? We print
> > preview the general ledger report instead of wasting paper, any
> ideas?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
We are about to go live with 6.1 and the only issue that I have is
print preview of the general ledger.

I worked with support trying to adjust the ini file with no solution
to my problem. It has also been suggested to use Image Writer instead
of Acrobat Distiller. Has anyone else had this issue? We print
preview the general ledger report instead of wasting paper, any ideas?

Thanks,

Mike
Ideas?

We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business unit" has
different structure of support staff / engineering / management, so has
different burden rate.

Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business unit - like
Assembly.

Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.

Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers processes parts
for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads driven
outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be proportionally
applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1 to BU
#2....

In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU #1, and one
programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming and sending
parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor could be
same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of the BU #2
parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)

How do you pull that off?

- Alexander



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the
product which has its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge
seperately for the programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming
and insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC



Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the
product which has its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge
seperately for the programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming
and insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them
access to labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data
collection.



It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs. actual program time.



I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.



Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC



Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the
product which has its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge
seperately for the programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming
and insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different between
the two BU's...



- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From a systems analyst point of view, you need two work centers, you may
see other reporting benefits down the road when analyzing what each
business unit is actually doing. As far as
I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,
Lets just say that's a pretty small change in manufacturing to
accommodate record keeping and reporting for both accounting and
manufacturing.

Patrick Winter



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC



Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only
an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different
between
the two BU's...

- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access
to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which
has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
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please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patrick,

I'd like to clarify, just in case someone has a solution that might address
what I'm facing...

I think what's being missed is that we do have different WC's for the bulk of
the work done for the BU's - Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2.

Some of the work though flows through shared resources, like QA, CNC - which
are WC's in their own right.

Normally you might expect (as I would guess did the programmers on Vantage)
that each WC is the driver for it's own Burden. (Managers, Supervisors,
Technical support staff, space in the building etc...).

In that assumption - it wouldn't matter whether QA or CNC were processing
parts for different WC's (Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2), the cost for processing the
part would depend not on where the part came from, but internally from QA or
CNC driven "overheads".

BUT....

My reality is that there are other drivers of cost that are rooted in
supporting the BU, and support QA and CNC on their respective parts...

So the activities I'm trying to include into the burden to cover them are
needed to support QA and CNC, but differ from one BU to another.

The programmers are an example. Engineering overheads are another. Program
management another. I could put all of the costs into the differentiated
WC's of Assy, but that's not really where it is all driven - so a part that
is heavy in QA but same in Assy would end up with the same burden - which
isn't "true".

What I'm getting at with the "finance tail wagging the mfg dog" is that I
could break the QA and CNC work centers as far as Vantage so each could have
an appropriate burden (like QA BU 1 and QA BU 2), but then capacity planning
/ scheduling of the resource is broken. If I give each BU half of the
capacity which might be right on average, what happens during a week when
it's 25/75? The one virtual WC seems overloaded, and the other virtual WC
has capacity....

What I have is single, shared WC's that are supported by overhead resources
both inside & outside of the WC's, where the external resources are
proportional to the hours the WC's run - burden by definition, just that the
burden is different depending on which resource pool is supporting the
particular work...


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Winter, Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:22 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC



From a systems analyst point of view, you need two work centers, you may
see other reporting benefits down the road when analyzing what each
business unit is actually doing. As far as
I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,
Lets just say that's a pretty small change in manufacturing to
accommodate record keeping and reporting for both accounting and
manufacturing.

Patrick Winter

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only
an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different
between
the two BU's...

- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access
to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which
has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alexander -

We have a similar situation here and are on Vantage 8.

We call a work center a resource group.

We created different resources on each work center(or resource group).
You can have different burden rates for each resource on the same
resource group.

Pam
Metro Machine

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC



Patrick,

I'd like to clarify, just in case someone has a solution that might
address
what I'm facing...

I think what's being missed is that we do have different WC's for the
bulk of
the work done for the BU's - Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2.

Some of the work though flows through shared resources, like QA, CNC -
which
are WC's in their own right.

Normally you might expect (as I would guess did the programmers on
Vantage)
that each WC is the driver for it's own Burden. (Managers, Supervisors,
Technical support staff, space in the building etc...).

In that assumption - it wouldn't matter whether QA or CNC were
processing
parts for different WC's (Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2), the cost for processing
the
part would depend not on where the part came from, but internally from
QA or
CNC driven "overheads".

BUT....

My reality is that there are other drivers of cost that are rooted in
supporting the BU, and support QA and CNC on their respective parts...

So the activities I'm trying to include into the burden to cover them
are
needed to support QA and CNC, but differ from one BU to another.

The programmers are an example. Engineering overheads are another.
Program
management another. I could put all of the costs into the differentiated
WC's of Assy, but that's not really where it is all driven - so a part
that
is heavy in QA but same in Assy would end up with the same burden -
which
isn't "true".

What I'm getting at with the "finance tail wagging the mfg dog" is that
I
could break the QA and CNC work centers as far as Vantage so each could
have
an appropriate burden (like QA BU 1 and QA BU 2), but then capacity
planning
/ scheduling of the resource is broken. If I give each BU half of the
capacity which might be right on average, what happens during a week
when
it's 25/75? The one virtual WC seems overloaded, and the other virtual
WC
has capacity....

What I have is single, shared WC's that are supported by overhead
resources
both inside & outside of the WC's, where the external resources are
proportional to the hours the WC's run - burden by definition, just that
the
burden is different depending on which resource pool is supporting the
particular work...


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Winter, Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:22 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

From a systems analyst point of view, you need two work centers, you may
see other reporting benefits down the road when analyzing what each
business unit is actually doing. As far as
I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,
Lets just say that's a pretty small change in manufacturing to
accommodate record keeping and reporting for both accounting and
manufacturing.

Patrick Winter

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only
an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different
between
the two BU's...

- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access
to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

......

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which
has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What I'm getting at with the "finance tail wagging the mfg dog" is that
I
could break the QA and CNC work centers as far as Vantage so each could
have
an appropriate burden (like QA BU 1 and QA BU 2), but then capacity
planning
/ scheduling of the resource is broken. If I give each BU half of the
capacity which might be right on average, what happens during a week
when
it's 25/75? The one virtual WC seems overloaded, and the other virtual
WC
has capacity....

You should be able to fix the broken capacity planning / scheduling
using custom reports or even a dashboard to rejoin them by work center
prefix or a VBFORM field to sort and group by, let's not forget the
built in Vantage Work Center Group as a feature in vantage. As we have
utilized the system more and more we pretty much run on all custom
reports now and have gotten away from all canned reports anyway.


Patrick Winter



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC



Patrick,

I'd like to clarify, just in case someone has a solution that might
address
what I'm facing...

I think what's being missed is that we do have different WC's for the
bulk of
the work done for the BU's - Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2.

Some of the work though flows through shared resources, like QA, CNC -
which
are WC's in their own right.

Normally you might expect (as I would guess did the programmers on
Vantage)
that each WC is the driver for it's own Burden. (Managers, Supervisors,
Technical support staff, space in the building etc...).

In that assumption - it wouldn't matter whether QA or CNC were
processing
parts for different WC's (Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2), the cost for processing
the
part would depend not on where the part came from, but internally from
QA or
CNC driven "overheads".

BUT....

My reality is that there are other drivers of cost that are rooted in
supporting the BU, and support QA and CNC on their respective parts...

So the activities I'm trying to include into the burden to cover them
are
needed to support QA and CNC, but differ from one BU to another.

The programmers are an example. Engineering overheads are another.
Program
management another. I could put all of the costs into the differentiated
WC's of Assy, but that's not really where it is all driven - so a part
that
is heavy in QA but same in Assy would end up with the same burden -
which
isn't "true".

What I'm getting at with the "finance tail wagging the mfg dog" is that
I
could break the QA and CNC work centers as far as Vantage so each could
have
an appropriate burden (like QA BU 1 and QA BU 2), but then capacity
planning
/ scheduling of the resource is broken. If I give each BU half of the
capacity which might be right on average, what happens during a week
when
it's 25/75? The one virtual WC seems overloaded, and the other virtual
WC
has capacity....

What I have is single, shared WC's that are supported by overhead
resources
both inside & outside of the WC's, where the external resources are
proportional to the hours the WC's run - burden by definition, just that
the
burden is different depending on which resource pool is supporting the
particular work...


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Winter, Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:22 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

From a systems analyst point of view, you need two work centers, you may
see other reporting benefits down the road when analyzing what each
business unit is actually doing. As far as
I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,
Lets just say that's a pretty small change in manufacturing to
accommodate record keeping and reporting for both accounting and
manufacturing.

Patrick Winter

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only
an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different
between
the two BU's...

- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access
to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

.....

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which
has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You say you have an issue, but don't say what it is. Are you not able
to do a print preview of the GL? We haven't had that problem.

As far as Acrobat, we found that it doesn't work well for certain
things such as printing while using Terminal Services to access
Vantage. We found a shareware program, PDF Creator, that has worked
very well for us. Any server that we may have set up for TS access
has that loaded instead of Acrobat.

Lee Hansen
Director of IT
Netcom, Inc.
Office: 847-484-0190
Cell: 262-617-6696
lhansen@...

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Gilchrist" <mikeg.ptc@...> wrote:
>
> We are about to go live with 6.1 and the only issue that I have is
> print preview of the general ledger.
>
> I worked with support trying to adjust the ini file with no solution
> to my problem. It has also been suggested to use Image Writer
instead
> of Acrobat Distiller. Has anyone else had this issue? We print
> preview the general ledger report instead of wasting paper, any
ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
Thanks everyone. Appreciate the time.


- Alexander


________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Lindquist, Pam
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:34 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC



Alexander -

We have a similar situation here and are on Vantage 8.

We call a work center a resource group.

We created different resources on each work center(or resource group).
You can have different burden rates for each resource on the same
resource group.

Pam
Metro Machine

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:50 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Patrick,

I'd like to clarify, just in case someone has a solution that might
address
what I'm facing...

I think what's being missed is that we do have different WC's for the
bulk of
the work done for the BU's - Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2.

Some of the work though flows through shared resources, like QA, CNC -
which
are WC's in their own right.

Normally you might expect (as I would guess did the programmers on
Vantage)
that each WC is the driver for it's own Burden. (Managers, Supervisors,
Technical support staff, space in the building etc...).

In that assumption - it wouldn't matter whether QA or CNC were
processing
parts for different WC's (Assy BU 1, Assy BU 2), the cost for processing
the
part would depend not on where the part came from, but internally from
QA or
CNC driven "overheads".

BUT....

My reality is that there are other drivers of cost that are rooted in
supporting the BU, and support QA and CNC on their respective parts...

So the activities I'm trying to include into the burden to cover them
are
needed to support QA and CNC, but differ from one BU to another.

The programmers are an example. Engineering overheads are another.
Program
management another. I could put all of the costs into the differentiated
WC's of Assy, but that's not really where it is all driven - so a part
that
is heavy in QA but same in Assy would end up with the same burden -
which
isn't "true".

What I'm getting at with the "finance tail wagging the mfg dog" is that
I
could break the QA and CNC work centers as far as Vantage so each could
have
an appropriate burden (like QA BU 1 and QA BU 2), but then capacity
planning
/ scheduling of the resource is broken. If I give each BU half of the
capacity which might be right on average, what happens during a week
when
it's 25/75? The one virtual WC seems overloaded, and the other virtual
WC
has capacity....

What I have is single, shared WC's that are supported by overhead
resources
both inside & outside of the WC's, where the external resources are
proportional to the hours the WC's run - burden by definition, just that
the
burden is different depending on which resource pool is supporting the
particular work...

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Winter, Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:22 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

From a systems analyst point of view, you need two work centers, you may
see other reporting benefits down the road when analyzing what each
business unit is actually doing. As far as
I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,
Lets just say that's a pretty small change in manufacturing to
accommodate record keeping and reporting for both accounting and
manufacturing.

Patrick Winter

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Bruce,

Appreciate the input.

What I'm after is different Burden rates, the progamming time was only
an
example... There are many sources of the burden that are different
between
the two BU's...

- Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
Bruce Butler
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:52 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

We look at programming as a direct job cost as their hours can vary from
job
to job. We have them track their time manually, then allow them access
to
labor entry to input their time for the day vs. data collection.

It gives us a lot of useful information for measuring quoted program
time vs.
actual program time.

I feel I maybe way off track as I am not giving you a solution you are
looking for, but, instead, a different way of looking at it.

Bruce Butler

IT Manager

Knappe & Koester, Inc.

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Alexander Gamble
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same
WC

Well, yes we charge for them, but we "average" the costs in question out
to
burden. The programming is only one of the inputs to the burden, there
are
others...

That's why I'm trying to have two burdens that I can apply to the WC
depending on which BU is supporting the part.

I can accomplish having two labor rates by having duplicate operation
types
under the WC, but the burden isn't the same proportion so I can't use
percent...

ex. Labor BU 1 = 30, Burden = 35

Labor BU 2 = 28, Burden = 36

......

I could use different WC's, but then the finance tail is wagging the
manufacturing dog...,

- Alexander

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
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<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of brychanwilliams
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:21 AM
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Subject: [Vantage] Re: V 6.1 Different Burden / Labor Rates - same WC

Hi,

It is like two programming departments , one CNC. The programming
departments
supply the programs(one-off), the shop floor machine the product which
has
its own rates (burden + Labour). Do you charge seperately for the
programming/tooling.

I would setup a workcenter(s) and operations for the cnc programming and
insert these into the routing or create a seperate job.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Alexander Gamble" <alexanderg@...>
wrote:
>
> Ideas?
>
> We have two major divisions/markets that we serve. Each "business
unit" has
> different structure of support staff / engineering / management,
so has
> different burden rate.
>
> Some of the manufacturing teams are dedicated to one business
unit - like
> Assembly.
>
> Easy - Assy BU #1 has burden = X, Assy BU #2 has burden = Y.
>
> Problem - CNC Dept made up of milling machine work centers
processes parts
> for both BU #1, and BU #2 in the same machines. Burden (overheads
driven
> outside the CNC dept directly) costs in the company need to be
proportionally
> applied from the BU to the CNC work - but again, differ from BU #1
to BU
> #2....
>
> In other words - could have two programmers working to support BU
#1, and one
> programmer working to support BU #2. Both could be programming
and sending
> parts to CNC Dept, WC A, that take an hour to machine - the labor
could be
> same, but the burden on the BU #1 parts has to be double that of
the BU #2
> parts (assume for simplicity no other variables for burden...)
>
> How do you pull that off?
>
> - Alexander
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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