Vantage new users

Thank you Mark.



_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Wonsil
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:15 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage new users



Hi Bill,

> Thank you Carl for your help in my project. Whatever you did is great for
> the new users like me. You probably offer more services in the Vantage
> world. Maybe you should list some here so other users can contact you when
> they have problems.

<rant>
Since you're probably new to the group and new members are added all of the
time, it's probably good to review how this group works.

First of all, this newsgroup has a strict policy against advertising of
services. From the home page: http://tech.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/>
groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

"A mailing list for the Users of Epicor's VANTAGE Manufacturing Software, it
serves as a forum for discussion and minor troubleshooting as an alternative
(not a substitute) for Vantage Technical Support. Third-party consultants
and
developers are also members of this group, but are strictly prohibited from
selling or promoting their services on the list."

There's a good reason for this. Groups can easily be overtaken by vendors
and
become useless. The ERP IT Toolbox forum is like that and it is not nearly
as
helpful as this one.

Secondly, there's a long history of newsgroups that predates Yahoo!Groups
and
over the decades history has shown what kinds of posts make or don't make a
useful newsgroup. The Web Design list is over ten years old and is just
slightly larger than this list at 2300 members. Their policy-page lists the
rules that make it an extremely useful newsgroup.

http://webdesign- <http://webdesign-l.com/policies/> l.com/policies/

One of the most common "violations" of good netiquette common to this group
is
untrimmed top-posted messages. Unfortunately, this is the default behavior
for
many email agents. (Read more here about why top untrimmed top posting
blows:
http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>
.org/wiki/Top-posting) The trouble with untrimmed posts is
that it makes searching the Vantage group archive EXTREMELY difficult. The
same text appears again, and again, and again because it's included in every
@#%$! reply on the thread. Then, after 15 pages of the same result, the
search
engine is too busy and you have to start over. Arghhh!

The other recent disturbing trend on this list (besides active promotion of
vendors) is the "contact me off-list" post. Off list replies prevent others
from learning. Now maybe these are just vendors trying to sell there wares
off
of the list or maybe people think that the question is too dumb for the list
but nobody learns anything from offline replies. If you do resolve an issue
offline, please post the result back to the list so that others can benefit
from this list just as you have. DON'T BE A LEECH.

Not to be one to sit around and bit.., er, complain, I have been working on
a
Vantage Wiki for last few months. I'm hacking it so it requires your Yahoo!
ID
to view and edit. Security is so antithetical to the Wiki people and
Yahoo!'s
authentication API is rather lame but I want to respect the closed nature of
this group and to protect Epicor's interests as well.

In the Wiki, people will be able to search for solutions easier than one can
in Yahoo!Groups and consultants will be able to maintain their own page with
all of the glorious things they can provide. In addition, people like Bill
who
use their services will be able to comment on them.

This list has been such a helpful resource and I'd really hate to see it
ruined.

</rant>

Mark W.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Carl,



Thank you Carl for your help in my project. Whatever you did is great for
the new users like me. You probably offer more services in the Vantage
world. Maybe you should list some here so other users can contact you when
they have problems.



Thanks



Bill Wu



IT Manager

Liberty Pumps





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Bill,

> Thank you Carl for your help in my project. Whatever you did is great for
> the new users like me. You probably offer more services in the Vantage
> world. Maybe you should list some here so other users can contact you when
> they have problems.

<rant>
Since you're probably new to the group and new members are added all of the
time, it's probably good to review how this group works.

First of all, this newsgroup has a strict policy against advertising of
services. From the home page: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/

"A mailing list for the Users of Epicor's VANTAGE Manufacturing Software, it
serves as a forum for discussion and minor troubleshooting as an alternative
(not a substitute) for Vantage Technical Support. Third-party consultants and
developers are also members of this group, but are strictly prohibited from
selling or promoting their services on the list."

There's a good reason for this. Groups can easily be overtaken by vendors and
become useless. The ERP IT Toolbox forum is like that and it is not nearly as
helpful as this one.

Secondly, there's a long history of newsgroups that predates Yahoo!Groups and
over the decades history has shown what kinds of posts make or don't make a
useful newsgroup. The Web Design list is over ten years old and is just
slightly larger than this list at 2300 members. Their policy-page lists the
rules that make it an extremely useful newsgroup.

http://webdesign-l.com/policies/

One of the most common "violations" of good netiquette common to this group is
untrimmed top-posted messages. Unfortunately, this is the default behavior for
many email agents. (Read more here about why top untrimmed top posting blows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting) The trouble with untrimmed posts is
that it makes searching the Vantage group archive EXTREMELY difficult. The
same text appears again, and again, and again because it's included in every
@#%$! reply on the thread. Then, after 15 pages of the same result, the search
engine is too busy and you have to start over. Arghhh!

The other recent disturbing trend on this list (besides active promotion of
vendors) is the "contact me off-list" post. Off list replies prevent others
from learning. Now maybe these are just vendors trying to sell there wares off
of the list or maybe people think that the question is too dumb for the list
but nobody learns anything from offline replies. If you do resolve an issue
offline, please post the result back to the list so that others can benefit
from this list just as you have. DON'T BE A LEECH.

Not to be one to sit around and bit.., er, complain, I have been working on a
Vantage Wiki for last few months. I'm hacking it so it requires your Yahoo! ID
to view and edit. Security is so antithetical to the Wiki people and Yahoo!'s
authentication API is rather lame but I want to respect the closed nature of
this group and to protect Epicor's interests as well.

In the Wiki, people will be able to search for solutions easier than one can
in Yahoo!Groups and consultants will be able to maintain their own page with
all of the glorious things they can provide. In addition, people like Bill who
use their services will be able to comment on them.

This list has been such a helpful resource and I'd really hate to see it
ruined.

</rant>

Mark W.