Vantage on WAN Blank Title 69510

system · October 9, 2008, 8:36am

Sounds like you terminal server is not sized properly or you may need
to add another TS. The "painting" issues that you describe all point
to the server not being able to keep up with the requests.

Check out the link:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc786809.aspx

Here is a line from the Testing Server Capactiy section:
"A good indicator of unacceptable performance is when the time to
complete the tasks in the simulation takes 10 percent longer than the
baseline."

Jeff

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Andrei Prodan" <andrei.prodan@...>
wrote:

>
> Thank you all for the feedback, feeling a lot more confident now.
>
>
>
> Travis:
>
> In our case it's not so much a problem with the DB as it's a problem
> with the lag from Terminal Services. This is on a reasonably used

2Mbit

> connection that usually has some 1.2 Mbit headroom, at 80 ms ping.
>
> Trying to scroll through an ultragrid for instance takes forever

while

> RD paints the screen a square at a time - same for the search box.
>
> We can't quite use categories on the favourites menu either, because
> clicking through them on RD takes a good 10 seconds to do that
> ridiculously stupid scroll effect.
>
>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Late, Travis
> Sent: 8 octombrie 2008 20:54
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage on WAN
>
>
>
> One thing that can really affect this is if your DB is not correctly
> tuned. You may want to make sure that your DB is tuned correctly.

That's

> one thought as to why performance could be lacking.
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%

40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf
> Of markewhittaker
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:49 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage on WAN
>
> It's interesting how several people are reporting slow speeds

running

> Vantage over TS on a WAN. We have our database housed on a unix
> server in one location and connect 6 other sites spanning coast to
> coast through our MPLS network using Citrix. All total we have over
> 200 full users and probably 150 more MES users. We have no speed
> problems at all.
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , "Vic
> Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Andrei,
> >
> > I think the remotely hosted Vantage is garbage, too. While a
> > consultant, I steered many folks away from it.
> >
> > I've ran Vantage across Terminal Services and Citrix and found

both

> to
> > yield roughly the same results. I do not prefer Citrix only
> because it
> > requires client software. Terminal Services.... Well, everyone

has

> RDP
> > on their Windows computer.
> >
> > I was initially skeptical about running the thick-client across

the

> VPN.
> > However, I must tell you, I've never been more surprised and
> happy. I
> > work remotely many times and we have satellite offices scattered
> around.
> > My home office is DSL and I have only about a 10% degradation in
> > performance versus sitting on the local area network. Not an

issue

> at
> > all.
> >
> > We have 20 people at a satellite office with 2-T1's and it runs
> smooth
> > over the VPN.
> >
> > Good luck and great idea to get off Epicor's hosted solution. It's
> > garbage.
> >
> >
> > Vic Drecchio
> > ERP Administrator
> >
> > TIMCO Aviation Services
> > Greensboro, NC
> > Email: vic.drecchio@
> > Office: 336.668.4410 x3091
> > Mobile: 704.530.3092
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of Andrei Prodan
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:07 AM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> >
> > We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year

now,

> > through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
> > This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a

WAN

> > link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage
> WAN
> > acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-

side

> > processing, etc).
> >
> > I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the

VPN

> link
> > we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some

of

> the
> > data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a

form

> is
> > definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long
> time).
> >
> > Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable
> (which it
> > isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile

links

> > will).
> >
> > Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet +
> Site to
> > Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?
> >
> > From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL

stored

> > procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few

bugs

> in
> > the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're

doing

> in
> > the grand scheme of things.
> > In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly
> resilient
> > to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy
> users I
> > intend to move to the local version how to end process every now

and

> > then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
> > reconnect transparently after brief outages).
> >
> > And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we

often

> to
> > Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work

over

> TS,
> > and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while
> Vantage
> > is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work
> reliably
> > when it's done locally?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrei
> >
>

**********************************************************************

> **
> >
>

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> **
> >
>

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> > reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,

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> > notify us immediately by telephone.
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> >
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> >
> > The views within this email are those of the author and not
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> > those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.
> >
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> **
> >
>

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> **
> > ************************************************
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
> must
> > have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
> access. )
> > (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
> Builder
> > and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
> > (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> > (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

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> action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in

error, please notify us immediately by telephone.

> This has been transmitted by -
>
> Hilo-PSS Group
> Murdock Road
> Dorcan Industrial Estate
> Swindon
>
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>
> Company Registration No: 01028915.
>
> The views within this email are those of the author and not
> necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.
>
> ** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious

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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

system · October 8, 2008, 2:08am

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious content **
************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

system · October 8, 2008, 7:03am

Andrei,

I have run Vantage over a WAN connection via RDP and MS Terminal Services for a many years. We have 25 users on one TS and the performance is great. My first question and comment is where is the terminal server? I assume it is on the opposite side of the WAN as the people connecting to it? Also the caching, has nothing to do with the WAN link as that would be done locally on the terminal server which ideally does not load anything over the WAN. It should be local to your Vantage DB Server. In fact you have to be careful with caching on a terminal server as it may actually negatively impact performance.

I have been able to run a couple of full clients across the WAN but if you have more than a couple of users I would not recommend it.

Todd H.

To: vantage@yahoogroups.comFrom: andrei.prodan@...: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:06:36 +0100Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WANlink tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WANacceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-sideprocessing, etc).I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN linkwe are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of thedata load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form isdefinitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time). Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which itisn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile linkswill).Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site toSite VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL storedprocedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs inthe software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing inthe grand scheme of things.In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilientto connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users Iintend to move to the local version how to end process every now andthen (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears toreconnect transparently after brief outages).And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often toPaste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantageis doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliablywhen it's done locally?Thanks,Andrei*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please notify us immediately by telephone.This has been transmitted by - Hilo-PSS GroupMurdock RoadDorcan Industrial EstateSwindonSN3 5HYCompany Registration No: 01028915.The views within this email are those of the author and notnecessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd. ** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious content **************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

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system · October 8, 2008, 8:48am

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 8:57am

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 9:05am

I should have been more clear. The remote users did not use TS. We
connected to all of our sites just through the internet as well. No T1
or T3 needed, but If you have one your connections should be allot
better than this setup. They used a local install of Vantage on each
individual machine. You will notice that the Riverbed Accelerators will
optimize all the traffic that is coming through Vantage. AS long as the
users machine on the other end has the correct Hardware specs it should
work very nicely. I would test it on a remote machine you will see the
traffic being optimized.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 9:33am

Andrei,

I think the remotely hosted Vantage is garbage, too. While a
consultant, I steered many folks away from it.

I've ran Vantage across Terminal Services and Citrix and found both to
yield roughly the same results. I do not prefer Citrix only because it
requires client software. Terminal Services.... Well, everyone has RDP
on their Windows computer.

I was initially skeptical about running the thick-client across the VPN.
However, I must tell you, I've never been more surprised and happy. I
work remotely many times and we have satellite offices scattered around.
My home office is DSL and I have only about a 10% degradation in
performance versus sitting on the local area network. Not an issue at
all.

We have 20 people at a satellite office with 2-T1's and it runs smooth
over the VPN.

Good luck and great idea to get off Epicor's hosted solution. It's
garbage.

Vic Drecchio
ERP Administrator

TIMCO Aviation Services
Greensboro, NC
Email: vic.drecchio@...
Office: 336.668.4410 x3091
Mobile: 704.530.3092

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in
reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please
notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not necessarily
those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

system · October 8, 2008, 9:57am

So if I follow you here, you are telling me that your 100 remote users
are using a VPN over the internet to connect and each user has Vantage
installed locally?

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I should have been more clear. The remote users did not use TS. We
connected to all of our sites just through the internet as well. No T1
or T3 needed, but If you have one your connections should be allot
better than this setup. They used a local install of Vantage on each
individual machine. You will notice that the Riverbed Accelerators will
optimize all the traffic that is coming through Vantage. AS long as the
users machine on the other end has the correct Hardware specs it should
work very nicely. I would test it on a remote machine you will see the
traffic being optimized.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 9:59am

also curious to know where your physical WAN accelerator is setup. Ours
sits between the router and WAN connection to our other plant. Then at
the other plant we have the same setup. If you are going over the
internet I'm curios to know how your steelhead is optimizing that
traffic unless it is sitting between your internet connection and
internal router.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I should have been more clear. The remote users did not use TS. We
connected to all of our sites just through the internet as well. No T1
or T3 needed, but If you have one your connections should be allot
better than this setup. They used a local install of Vantage on each
individual machine. You will notice that the Riverbed Accelerators will
optimize all the traffic that is coming through Vantage. AS long as the
users machine on the other end has the correct Hardware specs it should
work very nicely. I would test it on a remote machine you will see the
traffic being optimized.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 10:12am

We were using SonicWall Routers that connected our plants through the
internet. Each site had a Steelhead unit that optimized traffic.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:00 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

also curious to know where your physical WAN accelerator is setup. Ours
sits between the router and WAN connection to our other plant. Then at
the other plant we have the same setup. If you are going over the
internet I'm curios to know how your steelhead is optimizing that
traffic unless it is sitting between your internet connection and
internal router.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I should have been more clear. The remote users did not use TS. We
connected to all of our sites just through the internet as well. No T1
or T3 needed, but If you have one your connections should be allot
better than this setup. They used a local install of Vantage on each
individual machine. You will notice that the Riverbed Accelerators will
optimize all the traffic that is coming through Vantage. AS long as the
users machine on the other end has the correct Hardware specs it should
work very nicely. I would test it on a remote machine you will see the
traffic being optimized.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
*******************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error,
please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
content **
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 10:13am

Yes. Exactly

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:58 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

So if I follow you here, you are telling me that your 100 remote users
are using a VPN over the internet to connect and each user has Vantage
installed locally?

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I should have been more clear. The remote users did not use TS. We
connected to all of our sites just through the internet as well. No T1
or T3 needed, but If you have one your connections should be allot
better than this setup. They used a local install of Vantage on each
individual machine. You will notice that the Riverbed Accelerators will
optimize all the traffic that is coming through Vantage. AS long as the
users machine on the other end has the correct Hardware specs it should
work very nicely. I would test it on a remote machine you will see the
traffic being optimized.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Toby Boogerd
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Travis, we too use Riverbed Steelhead WAN Accelerators and TS users of
about 250. The riverbed does not optimize TS traffic from what I am
aware, but the optimization of other things may have opened up the
"bandwidth pipe" of your T1 or T3 or whatever you use to connect plants.
We were on a T1 with this setup and have in the last year moved to a T3
and we still haven't seen much speed improvements from the other plant.
If you have some special settings turned or setup for RDP connections on
the Steelhead I would love to know more.

________________________________

From: Late, Travis [mailto:tlate@... <mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com>
<mailto:tlate%40m-bco.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

I've run Vantage on Citrix, TS and Local. My Best experience has been
with local. At my prior company we had 4 remote sites. Originally when
we were on Vantage 6.1 we used TS, but when we jumped to Vantage 8.0 we
did a local install. It was a dog at first until we implemented
Steelhead Riverbed WAN accelerators. The speeds the remote sites
experience now are the same as if they were in the local office. The day
we implemented those units was the last day I ever heard any complaints
about speed. BTW, the remote users number about 100 users.

Thanks,

Travis

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Andrei Prodan
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:07 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN

Hello all,

We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage WAN
acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
processing, etc).

I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN link
we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of the
data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form is
definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long time).

Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable (which it
isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
will).

Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet + Site to
Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?

From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs in
the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing in
the grand scheme of things.
In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly resilient
to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy users I
intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
reconnect transparently after brief outages).

And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often to
Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over TS,
and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while Vantage
is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work reliably
when it's done locally?

Thanks,
Andrei
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Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 8, 2008, 1:48pm

It's interesting how several people are reporting slow speeds running
Vantage over TS on a WAN. We have our database housed on a unix
server in one location and connect 6 other sites spanning coast to
coast through our MPLS network using Citrix. All total we have over
200 full users and probably 150 more MES users. We have no speed
problems at all.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
wrote:

>
> Andrei,
>
> I think the remotely hosted Vantage is garbage, too. While a
> consultant, I steered many folks away from it.
>
> I've ran Vantage across Terminal Services and Citrix and found both

to

> yield roughly the same results. I do not prefer Citrix only

because it

> requires client software. Terminal Services.... Well, everyone has

RDP

> on their Windows computer.
>
> I was initially skeptical about running the thick-client across the

VPN.

> However, I must tell you, I've never been more surprised and

happy. I

> work remotely many times and we have satellite offices scattered

around.

> My home office is DSL and I have only about a 10% degradation in
> performance versus sitting on the local area network. Not an issue

at

> all.
>
> We have 20 people at a satellite office with 2-T1's and it runs

smooth

> over the VPN.
>
> Good luck and great idea to get off Epicor's hosted solution. It's
> garbage.
>
>
> Vic Drecchio
> ERP Administrator
>
> TIMCO Aviation Services
> Greensboro, NC
> Email: vic.drecchio@...
> Office: 336.668.4410 x3091
> Mobile: 704.530.3092
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Andrei Prodan
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:07 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN
>
> Hello all,
>
>
> We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
> through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
> This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
> link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage

WAN

> acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
> processing, etc).
>
> I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN

link

> we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of

the

> data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form

is

> definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long

time).

>
> Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable

(which it

> isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
> will).
>
> Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet +

Site to

> Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?
>
> From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
> procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs

in

> the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing

in

> the grand scheme of things.
> In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly

resilient

> to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy

users I

> intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
> then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
> reconnect transparently after brief outages).
>
> And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often

to

> Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over

TS,

> and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while

Vantage

> is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work

reliably

> when it's done locally?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andrei
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> *******************************************************
> This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
> information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any

action in

> reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please
> notify us immediately by telephone.
> This has been transmitted by -
>
> Hilo-PSS Group
> Murdock Road
> Dorcan Industrial Estate
> Swindon
>
> SN3 5HY
>
> Company Registration No: 01028915.
>
> The views within this email are those of the author and not

necessarily

> those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.
>
> ** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
> content **
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> ************************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable

access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder

> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>

system · October 8, 2008, 1:53pm

One thing that can really affect this is if your DB is not correctly
tuned. You may want to make sure that your DB is tuned correctly. That's
one thought as to why performance could be lacking.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of markewhittaker
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:49 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage on WAN

It's interesting how several people are reporting slow speeds running
Vantage over TS on a WAN. We have our database housed on a unix
server in one location and connect 6 other sites spanning coast to
coast through our MPLS network using Citrix. All total we have over
200 full users and probably 150 more MES users. We have no speed
problems at all.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , "Vic
Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
wrote:

>
> Andrei,
>
> I think the remotely hosted Vantage is garbage, too. While a
> consultant, I steered many folks away from it.
>
> I've ran Vantage across Terminal Services and Citrix and found both

to

> yield roughly the same results. I do not prefer Citrix only

because it

> requires client software. Terminal Services.... Well, everyone has

RDP

> on their Windows computer.
>
> I was initially skeptical about running the thick-client across the

VPN.

> However, I must tell you, I've never been more surprised and

happy. I

> work remotely many times and we have satellite offices scattered

around.

> My home office is DSL and I have only about a 10% degradation in
> performance versus sitting on the local area network. Not an issue

at

> all.
>
> We have 20 people at a satellite office with 2-T1's and it runs

smooth

> over the VPN.
>
> Good luck and great idea to get off Epicor's hosted solution. It's
> garbage.
>
>
> Vic Drecchio
> ERP Administrator
>
> TIMCO Aviation Services
> Greensboro, NC
> Email: vic.drecchio@...
> Office: 336.668.4410 x3091
> Mobile: 704.530.3092
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Andrei Prodan
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:07 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN
>
> Hello all,
>
>
> We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
> through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
> This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
> link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage

WAN

> acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
> processing, etc).
>
> I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN

link

> we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of

the

> data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form

is

> definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long

time).

>
> Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable

(which it

> isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
> will).
>
> Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet +

Site to

> Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?
>
> From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
> procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs

in

> the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing

in

> the grand scheme of things.
> In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly

resilient

> to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy

users I

> intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
> then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
> reconnect transparently after brief outages).
>
> And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often

to

> Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over

TS,

> and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while

Vantage

> is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work

reliably

> when it's done locally?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andrei
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> *******************************************************
> This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
> information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any

action in

> reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please
> notify us immediately by telephone.
> This has been transmitted by -
>
> Hilo-PSS Group
> Murdock Road
> Dorcan Industrial Estate
> Swindon
>
> SN3 5HY
>
> Company Registration No: 01028915.
>
> The views within this email are those of the author and not

necessarily

> those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.
>
> ** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
> content **
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> ************************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable

access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder

> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · October 9, 2008, 2:19am

Thank you all for the feedback, feeling a lot more confident now.

Travis:

In our case it's not so much a problem with the DB as it's a problem
with the lag from Terminal Services. This is on a reasonably used 2Mbit
connection that usually has some 1.2 Mbit headroom, at 80 ms ping.

Trying to scroll through an ultragrid for instance takes forever while
RD paints the screen a square at a time - same for the search box.

We can't quite use categories on the favourites menu either, because
clicking through them on RD takes a good 10 seconds to do that
ridiculously stupid scroll effect.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Late, Travis
Sent: 8 octombrie 2008 20:54
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage on WAN

One thing that can really affect this is if your DB is not correctly
tuned. You may want to make sure that your DB is tuned correctly. That's
one thought as to why performance could be lacking.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of markewhittaker
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:49 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage on WAN

It's interesting how several people are reporting slow speeds running
Vantage over TS on a WAN. We have our database housed on a unix
server in one location and connect 6 other sites spanning coast to
coast through our MPLS network using Citrix. All total we have over
200 full users and probably 150 more MES users. We have no speed
problems at all.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> , "Vic
Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
wrote:

>
> Andrei,
>
> I think the remotely hosted Vantage is garbage, too. While a
> consultant, I steered many folks away from it.
>
> I've ran Vantage across Terminal Services and Citrix and found both

to

> yield roughly the same results. I do not prefer Citrix only

because it

> requires client software. Terminal Services.... Well, everyone has

RDP

> on their Windows computer.
>
> I was initially skeptical about running the thick-client across the

VPN.

> However, I must tell you, I've never been more surprised and

happy. I

> work remotely many times and we have satellite offices scattered

around.

> My home office is DSL and I have only about a 10% degradation in
> performance versus sitting on the local area network. Not an issue

at

> all.
>
> We have 20 people at a satellite office with 2-T1's and it runs

smooth

> over the VPN.
>
> Good luck and great idea to get off Epicor's hosted solution. It's
> garbage.
>
>
> Vic Drecchio
> ERP Administrator
>
> TIMCO Aviation Services
> Greensboro, NC
> Email: vic.drecchio@...
> Office: 336.668.4410 x3091
> Mobile: 704.530.3092
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

> Of Andrei Prodan
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:07 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage on WAN
>
> Hello all,
>
>
> We've been using Vantage 8.03.305 from remote for about a year now,
> through the Epicor-recommended Terminal Services (Remote Desktop).
> This has been an unpleasant experience, as Remote Desktop over a WAN
> link tends to be dog slow - and benefits from none of the Vantage

WAN

> acceleration gimmicks (local caching, data compression, server-side
> processing, etc).
>
> I've attempted to experimentally run Vantage directly over the VPN

link

> we are using, and the experience is a lot smoother, though some of

the

> data load times can be slower (and the first time loading of a form

is

> definitely slow, but luckily those get cached for a long, long

time).

>
> Now, my question to you is: Let's assume this link is unstable

(which it

> isn't, but it does on occasion cause trouble, as all 5000 mile links
> will).
>
> Would it be a good idea to run Vantage directly over Internet +

Site to

> Site VPN ? Has anyone successfully done it for any length of time?
>
> From what I gather any and all data writes are done with SQL stored
> procedures and transactions, and while we've all noticed a few bugs

in

> the software, Epicor development do seem to know what they're doing

in

> the grand scheme of things.
> In conclusion, I'm thinking the DB integrity should be fairly

resilient

> to connection failures, even if I'll need to teach the 1-2 heavy

users I

> intend to move to the local version how to end process every now and
> then (Which also looks mostly unnecessary, as mfgsys appears to
> reconnect transparently after brief outages).
>
> And last but not least - would it be helpful? For instance we often

to

> Paste Insert/Paste Update operations, which are slow, but work over

TS,

> and let you minimize MSTSC and do something else locally while

Vantage

> is doing the heavy lifting. Would flipping windows still work

reliably

> when it's done locally?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andrei
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> *******************************************************
> This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain
> information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any

action in

> reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please
> notify us immediately by telephone.
> This has been transmitted by -
>
> Hilo-PSS Group
> Murdock Road
> Dorcan Industrial Estate
> Swindon
>
> SN3 5HY
>
> Company Registration No: 01028915.
>
> The views within this email are those of the author and not

necessarily

> those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.
>
> ** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious
> content **
>

**********************************************************************
**

>

**********************************************************************
**

> ************************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You

must

> have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable

access. )

> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report

Builder

> and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>

> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
This email is intended for the addressee only and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any
action in reliance on it. If this email has been sent to you in error, please notify us immediately by telephone.
This has been transmitted by -

Hilo-PSS Group
Murdock Road
Dorcan Industrial Estate
Swindon

SN3 5HY

Company Registration No: 01028915.

The views within this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Planned Storage Systems Ltd.

** This email has been scanned for viruses, vandals and malicious content **
************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Topic		Replies	Views
Vantage 8 over VPN/WAN Yahoo Archive	11	1023	July 15, 2007
Vantage and Terminal Server Yahoo Archive	5	426	October 3, 2002
Vantage over a VPN Yahoo Archive	16	576	October 10, 2006
Windows Terminal Server - V8 Performance issues Yahoo Archive	1	381	September 8, 2006
[BULK] RE: Remote Location Yahoo Archive	4	403	June 17, 2009

Vantage on WAN Blank Title 69510

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