Having just upgraded from a system from 2003, I can say I’m enjoying the new grass!
On your graphic, I 100% agree with inside consulting. Definitely look around and find some outside consultants that can help with the implementation.
For the most part, I figure out the problem before the support team does. I usually can fix our issue with a uBAQ/DMT. But sometimes I come across bugs that I cannot fix and I have to wait for fixes. (I have been waiting for a development Problem Number since August). But I digress…
When shopping ERP systems, we looked at a long list of “wants” and “needs” to determine the best fit. Epicor is the only one that provides everything we need and most of what we want either out of the box, or it gives us the ability to provide those solutions via customizations.
The biggest issue is getting buy-in from team members that processes need to change in order to get the most out of any ERP system. If you spend a lot of resources making the new system work in the same way as the old one did, you’ve wasted time and money upgrading.
Bottom line, despite it’s negative reviews (which I agree with), I believe it is the best ERP system for us.
On the one hand I agree with every word. Ours was awful, and the consulting was miserable as well.
On the other hand, we went from no ERP to a real ERP and I really have to suspect that our miserable implementation was 99% due to:
OUR data inconsistencies
OUR utter lack of procedure and organization
OUR umm… lack of familiarity with modern or lean practices
OUR stubbornness to entertain a different way of doing things
Epicor is doing well for us now, but because WE changed. Not so much to fit Epicor, but we changed to fit the 21st century.
My point in saying all that is, I have no idea where other companies come from before migrating to Epicor, but perhaps their stories are like ours.
Epicor is cheaper than others. So it’s small companies that start out with Epicor as their first real ERP system (a guess). A company that has its act together already is probably larger and not looking at Epicor at all.
I think this is one of those things where the cause is not what it seems.
Beat me to it, but you said that better than I could have.
I’ve always been jealous of anything running on IBM System Z. But I think that’s because if you actually have the budget to buy one you also have the budget to make sure it works.
I’ll gladly add my unasked-for 2 cents to this…and tie to other comments as well.
I was an IT applications manager running a global implementation of PeopleSoft - a strong tier-1 application, completely web-based with plenty of tools to modify anything you’d wish…which is enough to get you into severe trouble when you decide the way you do your common business processes (order-to-cash, procure-to-pay etc.) outweighs the software vendor’s processes…and you decide to embark on a modification frenzy that makes upgrades an impossible nightmare - stranding you at an old release.
I led an implementation project here that moved us off Infor/MAPICS to Epicor - and the beauty of the project was our management team whole-heartedly accepted their lead roles as change agents; we changed business processes to adapt to the software, and not attempt to change the software itself.
This was a tremendous shift, and I give all credit to the team and our execs for understanding this project was a business project, NOT an IT project.
Having said that, I have been impressed by Epicor and their direction. In my mind, this application is really turning out to be a fully-featured, tier-1 application. We have seen our share of quirks, but the capabilities of dashboard creation to identify issues has helped us move to exception-based processing. I’m really looking forward to getting back to a web-based application, and getting rid of client overhead.
As for features, one I’d love would be for screen ‘collections’ to be DB view-based. We have several areas in generic Epicor applications where just one added date field (missing from a collection) would short-circuit a bunch of busy work.
As for the implementation that is the absolute fault of the corporation… No Processes, shooting from the hip… no accountability and no buy-in from execs… and unrealistic expectations… and lets customize for the user and not the process… STOP!
If your CEO is not going to send an email that says “Support the project or get the F out” then you are already setup for failure because everyone hates change.
The Ultimate failure is “We want Epicor to do what our old system did”… (stay on the old system)
Change your Process first… before even thinking of changing the Software. And TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING.
We have some requests like “Warn if this field is empty”… WHY? Train the user and stop hiring folks from Craigslist who have no attention to detail, they have no business being Inside Sales Engineers.
Can you hide this checkbox, when we accidently click it - Cycle count includes 0 qty on hand… umm no… double check you have 2 eyes… its 1 form with 3 checkboxes… You will make the mistake once…
Probably a topic for a new thread, but I wish there was a built-in way to manage the “Save Defaults” on print forms. If the base form has a box checked that you don’t normally want checked, it’s easy enough to uncheck it and use Save Defaults. But what happens when someone else runs it with different “Save Defaults” settings.
I guess I want a dashboard that allows me to see the base settings, and the changes each person has saved as their defaults. Would also be nice to allow setting “Company Defaults”, to have a set specific to your compnay - which might not match the out of the box settings.
I have alot of passion about this topic and alot of hatred because I have seen the best of all worlds…
The Worst Implementation Ever
The Best Implementation One Could Ever Be Part Of
The Meh Implementation
I even saw folks from EUG quit because “The System is too customizable” and their Implementation team couldn’t handle that ability with great responsibility and thought customize everything! For example do your internal reports like “Job Traveler”, “Pick Slip”, “Time Phase” really NEED to have your company logo on them??? They will be recycled in 10 hours! Probably Not. But there are folks who want it on every report, whyyyyyyyyyyy.
One day when I can sit down and write without being rushed I can compile our process and give you some templates.
The thorn in my side, everywhere I’ve been, has been due to companies rejecting “Best Business Practice” that the entire rest of the world is moving towards, and wants everything customized to some archaic process flow that doesn’t make logical sense. Every case of “Epicor Sucks” I’ve encountered (aside from being in regards to Epicor Support, in which I typically find the problem or solution well before they ever admit that there is indeed an issue) has been in regards to people who think the ERP data flow should occur in some illogical or irrational manner that only makes the slightest bit of sense in their own minds.
Epicor has shot themselves in the foot on this. As you said, Inside consulting & implementation is what destroys this product’s perception.
We had been a partner for over a decade and every single year Epicor makes it harder and harder to do business with them due to their greed to keep consulting revenue internal, regardless of client need, partner skills or success.
I remember when Epicor acquired Docstar. They ended up with a 4 month backlog on projects due to all the Epicor ERP related interest. We as a partner went out of our way to get up to speed and certified on this very decent product.
Yet Epicor refused to refer any implementations to either Epicor ERP partners or even Docstar partners who had been doing implementations with Docstar for a decade before Epicor acquired them.
They went out and hired anyone with a pulse. I sat in on an ‘implementation’ and the implementor had been hired from Ricoh the week before where he was selling copiers.
Absolutely clueless, but they wanted to show the revenue to keep the outside investors happy before worrying about client wait times and satisfaction.
And if that attitude does not change, this company will always be on a very slow organic growth trajectory.
Mark I got that consultant- or someone similar. It was the worst implementation I have ever been a part of. It was unbelievable. It left a very sour taste for me, but I know they are better than that and it was just this one time. I learned a lot through the docstar implementation about software selection and vendor selection for the consulting part of it.
Epicor made it right in the end, but it was a very tough, frustrating implementation.
I don’t know why they would do that to that consultant and for their own brand.
I have been part of few implementation of different ERP. Irrespective of the product, if the project is driven by the customer then only it will be a success.
During implementation where the customer core project team members stated "YOUR SYSTEM ", that project failed.
I wonder why the customer makes such statement, they have spent lot of time and money in selecting an ERP system, but during implementation they are not ready to accept its their system.
This is may be due to a fear factor (mindset) of
ERP will take over their job
It will highlight the flaws in the business process
RACI chart absence will surely make the project die.
R-Responsible
A-Accountable
C-Consult
I-Inform
As for EPICOR concern, I think this company focus is only ERP not any thing else. They have one product, ERP. The evaluation of EPICOR ERP proves the same.
“That’s why insuring the team owns their processes is so important.”
You got to have a management team that buys into philosophy first.
The first month I started at my current job, I had an assistant plant Manager tell me (with a straight face), their finished goods numbers never matched their shipped product numbers so they just ignored the FG numbers.
They never counseled the inspectors to input correct FG numbers because it was hard enough finding qualified inspectors as is and couldn’t put in place a rule change that would risk one being let go due to too many infractions. I now spend most of my Friday’s every week performing audits of FGs to make sure they entered them correctly that week. Job security.
People can say accountability all they want but until it’s actually enforced, the inmates run the asylum.
Prior to implementing a Multi-Company Epicor system. It is quite common for companies to operate in a very diverse fashion at the regional level. However, as the company integrates globally, these regional variances will begin to cause problems in both efficiency and effectiveness.
Standardization can bring consistency and positively affect the bottom line.
As part of your Epicor Implementation, do not default to customizations, instead first take a good look at business processes and make modifications. Any good Epicor implementation also modifies Business Processes.It’s not just about shoving the software in, bending it with customizations and off you go to the next plant. If you must customize then customize for the process and not the user. Work with regional executives on first changing the processes before you try to change the software, not doing so has been the cause for numerous failed Epicor Case Studies.
The most crucial part is that your setup data is in harmony across all Epicor Companies, or you will have a field day that never ends with Multi-Company or any Integrations.
To name a few:
Develop a Customer/Vendor ID numbering system.
Develop a Part numbering system. (Don’t allow certain characters, control it with a Configurator)
Standardize Part Classes, Product Groups, Sales Categories.
Standardize UOM Classes, Unit of Measures (try to use ANSI Standards as well).
Standardize Naming Conventions of Plants, Warehouses, Calendars.
Standardize Customer Facing & Internal Reports.
Your Epicor Governance team should be in control of managing that Setup Data, for example if one Company thinks it’s a great idea to have NET75 Terms, then NET75 should be configured for all Companies, including your Master Data Company. UOM is another great example. Usually SME’s would request the change from the Governance Team, who should review the request and work with corporate to standardize the request across all companies.
If you do not standardize it could mean that you will have to create and maintain translation tables to consolidate this data. If you multiply this situation several times by customer, vendor, plant or company, then the problem becomes a very substantial one.
Switching to any new system is a great opportunity to evaluate Standards, Processes, Simplification & Automation.
