Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1

Yahoo Archive
1
We purchased the utility in the past - it works great! We would be
interested in the 5.10 utility as well when you have it done.

Diane Rowberry
Westwood Precision
-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:29 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


been up and running with it since 12/28/01 and no problems. I am
currently
testing a newer version which eliminates the error messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


Mike,
Have you gotten yours working for 5.1 yet? That's all we really need.

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back
with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the
Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to
know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license
structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps
too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a
bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using
this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in
5.1.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know. We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure. Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.
4
Because automated license structure maintenence increases a customer's
demand for licenses?

Nah...

-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 8:57 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
5
decreases...exuse me

-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:07 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


Because automated license structure maintenence increases a customer's
demand for licenses?

Nah...

-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 8:57 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6
Mike,
Have you gotten yours working for 5.1 yet? That's all we really need.

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
I willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt but I agree with Michael.
It would be very easy for Epicor to set a timeout feature in their software.

Does this issue have to deal with a lack of programming skill by Epicor,
Dataworks, DCD...(and whoever owned them before that)? NO

Does this issue have to deal with wanting to sell more licenses? MAYBE?

I don't see how any I.S. department that supports Vantage gets any work done
without the Timeout feature. I remember back when it didn't work for a
while in version 2.6. Almost constantly I was getting calls "I just
crashed and I'm getting a message 'Maximum Number of Users Exceeded' can you
bump me out". When we called Dataworks/DCD about the issue they said we
needed to buys some more licenses, I hit the ceiling.

We have our timeout feature set to 30 minutes and I never get those calls.

Hey Epicor are you listening?! We're in a recession also. Give the
customer what they want. Give us our timeout feature back.

-----Original Message-----
From: Podlin, Michael [mailto:michael.podlin@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:57 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in 5.1.






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
8
been up and running with it since 12/28/01 and no problems. I am currently
testing a newer version which eliminates the error messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


Mike,
Have you gotten yours working for 5.1 yet? That's all we really need.

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back
with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to
know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license
structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps
too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a
bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using
this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in
5.1.





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
9
Good deal. I'll be contacting you when we're more ready to go on 5.1. At $100, you can't beat it, gang.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics
----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


been up and running with it since 12/28/01 and no problems. I am currently
testing a newer version which eliminates the error messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


Mike,
Have you gotten yours working for 5.1 yet? That's all we really need.

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back
with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to
know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license
structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps
too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a
bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using
this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in
5.1.





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
Mike,

Please let us all know when you are going to be done testing your new version. I, for one, would like to get it!

Wendy Bowen
Network Administrator
Schmald Tool & Die, Inc.
(810) 743-1600 ext.323
wpursche@...
----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


been up and running with it since 12/28/01 and no problems. I am currently
testing a newer version which eliminates the error messages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:13 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


Mike,
Have you gotten yours working for 5.1 yet? That's all we really need.

Troy

----- Original Message -----
From: Podlin, Michael
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This has been an issue with many Vantage users for many revisions back
with
countless calls to tech support. Epicor doesn't need to use the Progress
time out setting. Timing out an idle Vantage session can be done from
within their Vantage code itself. Why haven't they sought out this
solution?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troy Funte [mailto:tfunte@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


This would be a very important thing for many of us looking at 5.1 to
know.
We depend heavily on the Timeout feature to maintian our license
structure.
Please keep us informed. If you have a call number, that always helps
too.

Troy Funte
Liberty Electronics

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Freeman
To: Vantage E groups (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:19 AM
Subject: [Vantage] Client Time Out in Vantage 5.1


I've called Epicor and they've consulted with Progress and there is a
bug
in
the Client Time Out feature in Progress 9.1C. We our currently using
this
in Vantage 4.0 with great success. Does anybody have this working in
5.1.





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]