Data Collection Terminals

Yahoo Archive
1
-----Original Message-----
From: Empty Vantageuser [mailto:prcavantageaccount@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:35 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals



We use dell dimension 2000's, 128 MB ram, Celeron 1.4 some are 1.7 with NT 4
workstation and a very locked down profile. Symbol scanners and 10-key
keypads complete it.
Rock solid, of the 12 systems, a total of 31 minutes downtime this calendar
year, all of these due to lost network connection. (The custom data
collection software we use for vantage called Caesar will crash if even a
couple seconds of interruption)
We are a 24/7 shop, too.
Assuming the *only* thing you'll do with this station is collect data,
either from hand input or scanner input, there is no good reason for you to
buy p3 or p4 for data collection. A Celeron with at least 128, but better
256 MB ram, is still like killing ants with a shotgun :)


Brian Larcom <bwlarcom@...> wrote:We have 12 data collection PC,
most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY


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2
Hi Gang,
Â
Is there any way to determine which terminal that an employee clocked in
at? We have about 10 data collection stations throughout the shop.  We
suspect a employee/s of clocking each other in and out. Today we have
individual who clocked in this morning who is not here today. We have had
this suspicion in the past as well. Today the phantom clocked in at 7:07(7
minutes late) and no one else is near that time.
Â
Any help would be greatly appreciated. We are trying to track these acts
without any elaborate measures, spy cams, me crouching behind a stack of
pallets all night eating crackers pumping no doze. :-)
Â
Thanks,
Â
Dan

Daniel C. Spoerl
Estimator/MIS
Toledo Metal Spinning Co.
Phone: (419) 535-5931 ext. 203
Fax:Â Â Â (419) 535-0565Â
Personal E-fax: (707) 897-1708Â
Email:Â Â Â HYPERLINK
"mailto:dans@..."dans@...
WebSite: HYPERLINK
"http://www.toledometalspinning.com/"http://www.toledometalspinning.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products_configurator.htm" \n



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3
Take a look at the Vantage Labor Collection Gateway on the Open Transactions
Tab. If you scroll all the way to the right, the last column is marked TT5
ID. You can't search it and have to scroll manually, but it may help.

Christopher Gitzlaff
Manager - Information Systems & Technology
Major Industries, Inc.
Phone: 715-842-4616
Fax: 715-848-3336


-----Original Message-----
From: dans@... [mailto:dans@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:43 PM
To: Vantage Group (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


Hi Gang,
Â
Is there any way to determine which terminal that an employee clocked in
at? We have about 10 data collection stations throughout the shop.  We
suspect a employee/s of clocking each other in and out. Today we have
individual who clocked in this morning who is not here today. We have had
this suspicion in the past as well. Today the phantom clocked in at 7:07(7
minutes late) and no one else is near that time.
Â
Any help would be greatly appreciated. We are trying to track these acts
without any elaborate measures, spy cams, me crouching behind a stack of
pallets all night eating crackers pumping no doze. :-)
Â
Thanks,
Â
Dan

Daniel C. Spoerl
Estimator/MIS
Toledo Metal Spinning Co.
Phone: (419) 535-5931 ext. 203
Fax:Â Â Â (419) 535-0565Â
Personal E-fax: (707) 897-1708Â
Email:Â Â Â HYPERLINK
"mailto:dans@..."dans@...
WebSite: HYPERLINK
"http://www.toledometalspinning.com/"http://www.toledometalspinning.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products_configurator.htm" \n



Â

---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
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Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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4
Dan, unless Epicor finally decides to release the Biometrics for Data
Collection module ;) , I am afraid that your easiest way to solving the
problem will be a combination of snooping (is there a pattern who logs in
before or after the ghost?), sheer luck, a stern warning to all employees in
a company meeting (stress the importance of knowing exactly who is in the
building: what happens if a fireman goes looking for the ghost, while the
building is burning down, and dies in the effort?), and unannounced roll
calls right at 7:15 (or right after each shift start).
Of course, there is the plethora of NetBus type of tools which allow you to
see and record key clicks, but your best bet is to either catch the
offender(s) in the act, or scare them into submission.

HTH,

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: dans@... [mailto:dans@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:43 PM
To: Vantage Group (E-mail)
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


Hi Gang,
Â
Is there any way to determine which terminal that an employee clocked in
at? We have about 10 data collection stations throughout the shop.  We
suspect a employee/s of clocking each other in and out. Today we have
individual who clocked in this morning who is not here today. We have had
this suspicion in the past as well. Today the phantom clocked in at 7:07(7
minutes late) and no one else is near that time.
Â
Any help would be greatly appreciated. We are trying to track these acts
without any elaborate measures, spy cams, me crouching behind a stack of
pallets all night eating crackers pumping no doze. :-)
Â
Thanks,
Â
Dan

Daniel C. Spoerl
Estimator/MIS
Toledo Metal Spinning Co.
Phone: (419) 535-5931 ext. 203
Fax:Â Â Â (419) 535-0565Â
Personal E-fax: (707) 897-1708Â
Email:Â Â Â HYPERLINK
"mailto:dans@..."dans@...
WebSite: HYPERLINK
"http://www.toledometalspinning.com/"http://www.toledometalspinning.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products_configurator.htm" \n



Â

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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5
We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY
6
We run Terminal Services on thin clients. They have really worked out
great. For those stations that already have touch screens we ordered just
the thin client ($299) and for those units that are being replaced or are
new we ordered the integrated LCD touch screen thin client($1199). Those
have worked out great. No need for a mouse or keyboard so we hang them on
support beams and on the walls. I think we have 22 of them now. We use
Televideo Products. www.televideo.com


Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:38 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
7
I run worse than that with Win-98 as DC PCs. Win-95 is an issue for Vantage
5.20 and Win-98 is EOL in June so the next best option is Win2K (rather than
XP) and then those PCs would be lacking horsepower. Personally I opted for
cheap PCs (home made from components) for ease of setup (didn't have to
learn TS) and the volume of Terminal Server messages here related to issues.
If you have monitors/Keybd/Mouse already the white box PCs would be in the
$350 range + OS license ($150 for XP w/system but install 2K?) so 'round
about $500 total. Plug and play into your existing Win-95 locations on your
network with no TS learning curve. Plus since the minimal disk size is 10GB
(or more like 20GB) and OS + DC Client does not need near that much you can
create auxiliary partitions all over the place and share to Administrator
and use for rolling backups and warehouse space. That could be 100GB+ on
your 12 DC locations. Just my 2 cents on it.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY



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Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
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8
You could run just terminal services without Citrix. A single P4 with a gig
of ram would easily run terminal services and Windows 2000 Server for 12
Clients. For about 6 months we ran 35 clients on a Windows 2000 dual
1700MP (AMD) with 1GB of Ram (Under $700.00). 20 of those clients was just
Data Collections but the rest used MS Office and other Applications. I was
really very surprised at how much we could run on it without any issues. As
more users are added, you need to watch your memory. We purchased a new
Vantage server so that freed up our HP Server to use for terminal services.
Otherwise I would have left at least the Data Collection Terminals on the
AMD Box. The cost for a MS Terminal Server Lic is $75.00 per client. There
is no other cost for Terminal Services other then the purchase of your
Windows 2000 Server Lic.

Just throwing in a few more cents.
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lowe [mailto:MLowe@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:42 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com; vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:RE: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


Good question.

PC prices are so cheap now that it's not an easy answer. I just configured
a
low end, bare bones PC w/o monitor at Dell.com and the price was $569. If
you're looking at 12 data collection workstations you're talking $6828 (not
including tax, shipping or monitors).

I haven't priced Terminal Server or Citrix MetaFrame lately (what we use)
but
I'm pretty sure that with the cost of the server, Windows 2000 Server and
MetaFrame (15 users of MetaFrame is ~$4-5K alone) you'll at least match the
~$7K
figure. Plus there's the learning curve of working with/configuring
Terminal
Server. Now, I'm a HUGE advocate of Citrix, but unless there is some other
driving force other than cost (like remote access) I think I would go with
the
PC option.

As an interesting side note. I configured a workstation running Linux (Red
Hat
8.0) over the holidays (it was rainy in SoCal so couldn't hit the Mtbike
trails). I then downloaded the Citrix ICA client for Linux. Connected from
home to one of our Terminal Servers at the office and the connection speed
was
significantly faster than a similarly configured Win98 orWin2000 PC running
it's
corresponding ICA client. Verrrry interesting....

Mike Lowe
Connor Manufacturing Services


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 12/3/02 12:21 PM

I run worse than that with Win-98 as DC PCs. Win-95 is an issue for Vantage
5.20 and Win-98 is EOL in June so the next best option is Win2K (rather than
XP) and then those PCs would be lacking horsepower. Personally I opted for
cheap PCs (home made from components) for ease of setup (didn't have to
learn TS) and the volume of Terminal Server messages here related to issues.
If you have monitors/Keybd/Mouse already the white box PCs would be in the
$350 range + OS license ($150 for XP w/system but install 2K?) so 'round
about $500 total. Plug and play into your existing Win-95 locations on your
network with no TS learning curve. Plus since the minimal disk size is 10GB
(or more like 20GB) and OS + DC Client does not need near that much you can
create auxiliary partitions all over the place and share to Administrator
and use for rolling backups and warehouse space. That could be 100GB+ on
your 12 DC locations. Just my 2 cents on it.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY



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Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
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9
A 300 mhz PC is considered FAST around these parts.

64 meg of ram is a bit pathetic though.

Try adding 256 meg of ram and a 2nd hard drive. Put the system swap file on
the 2nd drive. Install Win-2000.

You might be surprised at the speed.

Just a guess here but do these boxes have 5400 rpm drives or 7200 rpm drives
?

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals


We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY



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l/S=:HM/A=1267611/rand=715782118>

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
Todd,
PC's have 5400 rpm harddrive.
How much of a difference and what effect do you think this will have?
Thanks,
Brian Lacom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY

--- In vantage@y..., Todd Anderson <tanderson@j...> wrote:
> A 300 mhz PC is considered FAST around these parts.
>
> 64 meg of ram is a bit pathetic though.
>
> Try adding 256 meg of ram and a 2nd hard drive. Put the system
swap file on
> the 2nd drive. Install Win-2000.
>
> You might be surprised at the speed.
>
> Just a guess here but do these boxes have 5400 rpm drives or 7200
rpm drives
> ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
> To: vantage@y...
> Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
>
>
> We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs
ram,
> running Windows 95.
> What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
> inexpensive PC's?
> Thanks,
> Brian Larcom
> Metallized Carbon Corp
> Ossining, NY
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
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050071
>
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50;sz=
> 300x250;ord=1038933484341684?>
>
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M=237459.2675695.4055211.2225243/D=egroupmai
> l/S=:HM/A=1267611/rand=715782118>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
must have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
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11
On the topic of Linux terminal services clients...if you are running the
plain RDP built into Windows 2000 you can use a very small program
called rdesktop (www.rdesktop.org) to use terminal services. Only 96 K
compiled! There is a heck of a lot of potential here for data collection
configurations with amazingly minimal hardware requirements. Don't throw
away those 486's yet.
----
Adam Ellis
Senior Consultant, SaberLogic, LLC
www.saberlogic.com
Ph: (330) 335-6442

Mike Lowe wrote:

>Good question.
>
>PC prices are so cheap now that it's not an easy answer. I just configured a
>low end, bare bones PC w/o monitor at Dell.com and the price was $569. If
>you're looking at 12 data collection workstations you're talking $6828 (not
>including tax, shipping or monitors).
>
>I haven't priced Terminal Server or Citrix MetaFrame lately (what we use) but
>I'm pretty sure that with the cost of the server, Windows 2000 Server and
>MetaFrame (15 users of MetaFrame is ~$4-5K alone) you'll at least match the ~$7K
>figure. Plus there's the learning curve of working with/configuring Terminal
>Server. Now, I'm a HUGE advocate of Citrix, but unless there is some other
>driving force other than cost (like remote access) I think I would go with the
>PC option.
>
>As an interesting side note. I configured a workstation running Linux (Red Hat
>8.0) over the holidays (it was rainy in SoCal so couldn't hit the Mtbike
>trails). I then downloaded the Citrix ICA client for Linux. Connected from
>home to one of our Terminal Servers at the office and the connection speed was
>significantly faster than a similarly configured Win98 orWin2000 PC running it's
>corresponding ICA client. Verrrry interesting....
>
>Mike Lowe
>Connor Manufacturing Services
>
>
>____________________Reply Separator____________________
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
>Author: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
>Date: 12/3/02 12:21 PM
>
>I run worse than that with Win-98 as DC PCs. Win-95 is an issue for Vantage
>5.20 and Win-98 is EOL in June so the next best option is Win2K (rather than
>XP) and then those PCs would be lacking horsepower. Personally I opted for
>cheap PCs (home made from components) for ease of setup (didn't have to
>learn TS) and the volume of Terminal Server messages here related to issues.
>If you have monitors/Keybd/Mouse already the white box PCs would be in the
>$350 range + OS license ($150 for XP w/system but install 2K?) so 'round
>about $500 total. Plug and play into your existing Win-95 locations on your
>network with no TS learning curve. Plus since the minimal disk size is 10GB
>(or more like 20GB) and OS + DC Client does not need near that much you can
>create auxiliary partitions all over the place and share to Administrator
>and use for rolling backups and warehouse space. That could be 100GB+ on
>your 12 DC locations. Just my 2 cents on it.
>-Todd C.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
>
>
>We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
>running Windows 95.
>What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
>inexpensive PC's?
>Thanks,
>Brian Larcom
>Metallized Carbon Corp
>Ossining, NY
>
>
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12
Brian,

With only 64 meg of RAM your PC's are probably swapping files to disk all
the time. Add in a slow hard drive and you have a recipe for an annoying
box.

Try 1 pc and see what you think. What do you have to loose?

I'd buy a 7200 rpm drive as the new "Primary" and switch the 5400 rpm drive
to be the 2nd drive. Buy the smallest hard drive you can find that runs
7200 rpm. 5 gig would be more than you would need on these boxes.

Add the 256 meg of RAM. ( try www.buymemory.com <http://www.buymemory.com>
for pricing )

Install Win-2000. Then set the virtual swap file size on the C-drive to be
zero and set the swap file size to 500/1000 on the 2nd drive.

Also, check out www.fortres.com <http://www.fortres.com> - the Fortres
product is sweet for locking down shop floor PC's.

Also, when you have completed installing and configuring everything reboot
into safe mode and then run a system backup from the 1st drive to the 2nd
drive. Always handy if you have a drive failure or corrupted registry.

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 3:37 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Data Collection Terminals


Todd,
PC's have 5400 rpm harddrive.
How much of a difference and what effect do you think this will have?
Thanks,
Brian Lacom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY

--- In vantage@y..., Todd Anderson <tanderson@j...> wrote:
> A 300 mhz PC is considered FAST around these parts.
>
> 64 meg of ram is a bit pathetic though.
>
> Try adding 256 meg of ram and a 2nd hard drive. Put the system
swap file on
> the 2nd drive. Install Win-2000.
>
> You might be surprised at the speed.
>
> Just a guess here but do these boxes have 5400 rpm drives or 7200
rpm drives
> ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Larcom [mailto:bwlarcom@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:38 AM
> To: vantage@y...
> Subject: [Vantage] Data Collection Terminals
>
>
> We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs
ram,
> running Windows 95.
> What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
> inexpensive PC's?
> Thanks,
> Brian Larcom
> Metallized Carbon Corp
> Ossining, NY
>
>
>
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13
We use dell dimension 2000's, 128 MB ram, Celeron 1.4 some are 1.7 with NT 4 workstation and a very locked down profile. Symbol scanners and 10-key keypads complete it.
Rock solid, of the 12 systems, a total of 31 minutes downtime this calendar year, all of these due to lost network connection. (The custom data collection software we use for vantage called Caesar will crash if even a couple seconds of interruption)
We are a 24/7 shop, too.
Assuming the *only* thing you'll do with this station is collect data, either from hand input or scanner input, there is no good reason for you to buy p3 or p4 for data collection. A Celeron with at least 128, but better 256 MB ram, is still like killing ants with a shotgun :)


Brian Larcom <bwlarcom@...> wrote:We have 12 data collection PC, most Pentium I, 300 mhz, 64 megs ram,
running Windows 95.
What would you suggest to upgrade to ... Terminal Server or buy
inexpensive PC's?
Thanks,
Brian Larcom
Metallized Carbon Corp
Ossining, NY


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