Epicor Hosting Experience and any hidden costs

Up front, I have no experience using Epicor's specific hosting solution,
however I do have experience with Epicor in a hosted environment.

It's all about Cost/benefit/headache/access.

One company I work with who uses a hosted solution does it for a few
different reasons from what I can tell.

One reason was they wanted to be up and running in a short time frame, from
the date they signed with Epicor, they were up and running a live production
in about 9 months, this was going from a complete blank installation to go
live. While they did not go live with everything right away, they have been
integrating secondary companies and parts of the software on a piece by
piece basis since the initial go live.

Remove the need for worrying about hardware, they don't need to buy it,
maintain it, replace it, or anything else. Everything is taken care of by
the hosting company, including their backups and maintaining uptime.

Another reason is the distributed locations of their company, some in
Europe, some in the US, and they are all using the same system. It's easier
and more reliable for them to have a 3rd party hosting it where all sites
can access it equally instead of needing to build and maintain connections
between sites. I know I would rather have an office or user in Norway
contact a hosting company to say that they can't connect at 3am my time
versus need to have a person in the office in New Jersey case that happens,
or call me to get up and possibly go into the office to fix the problem.

Another reason is that they have outsourced their Epicor administration
tasks and responsibilities as well, so it eliminates needing to give a third
party admin access to their internal company network versus only to their
Epicor Environment. It also makes it a ton easier to grant access to any
outside consultants and reduces the need to have a consultant on site for
work as often, thus reducing additional costs like travel, hotel etc., but
also most consultants remote rates are lower than onsite rates.

So, those are a couple of the benefits to it being hosted somewhere.

It also makes access by non-technical mobile salesman much easier as well.
Go to a webpage and log in versus the common internal process of connect
through vpn, then run this RDP, then run Epicor.

I also think that hosting it when you are new to the software can be a
benefit since you don't know everything about the software, and it can give
you a shorter time to go live versus building your own system in house, and
the cost of any mistakes in hardware can be dramatic, versus having it
hosted, you can get that VM that it is likely running on adjusted and
changes much more easily. Oh, need more RAM? Click Click Click, done. Need
More Processors? Click Click Click, done. Then maybe down the road you make
an investment in the hardware and bring it in house, but the learning curve
for maintaining the system wasn't as big a factor in affecting your go live.

I think a lot of this changes if you already have a lot of experience with
Epicor's products and you have already worked with it on your own systems. I
think it would be a vastly different number of people who would go from
internal to hosted versus starting on hosting and then bringing it internal
after a year, or 5. Part of it being the control freak aspect of most good
IT managers and admins, they want to know everything about their system and
have complete control.

Lots of factors overall need to be taken into account, while average annual
costs are probably higher with a hosted solution, up-front costs are much
lower with hosted. How you use the system is also important as well, if you
are using it for quotes, orders, inventory and financial more than things
like jobs, mrp, configurator, shipping and other manufacturing process
components, then hosting may not have as great a detriment to your end user
experience compared to someone who is using MES and the manufacturing
components heavily.

Third party software is also a big thing from my POV, if you use almost none
then you would be better for hosting than if you are using a whole bunch of
the third party products, service connect, Insite, AFR, APM, etc.

Software costs are another aspect, many times it's not as costly to use SQL
in a hosted environment because the host has a license agreement with MS
compared to what it would cost you to buy a license for something like SQL,
or SharePoint or Enterprise Server over Standard Server etc.

A little bit of rambling in there, but mileage may vary so it's worth
evaluating all the possible positives and negatives for each situation in
regards to hosting or not.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Donna
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experiance and any hidden costs


Hello,

I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with using
Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's site. We
currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks and if
it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5 year cost
analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If anyone could
comment on either one they feel is better or worst please do I appreciate
all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where it has been with
being able to have the ability to have control over the server when we need
it with no interruption.

Thanks



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Hello,

I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
server when we need it with no interruption.

Thanks



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Donna,

I will admit we are NOT using Epicor's hosting service but we are looking into putting Epicor "in the cloud". Personally, I think it is a wasted cost. Think about the monthly cost, especially the size of your db because that does get figured in the cost, plus the fact that your db will grow, which will only add to the cost. IS this cost worth it?

On top of that, security is the biggest issue. Your data is being taken care of by someone else, not your company. Although any 3rd party company cannot access your data how do you know that they do not have remote viewing software to watch what you are doing on your "server"? What makes you so sure that the 3rd party couldn't hack into your database? All lovely questions to ask. Granted you are thinking about using Epicor and it just makes it easier when you have issues, the database is there and you don't have to upload it! They can't argue with you and say "we have no idea how you set it up, therefore I cannot help you" because they are the ones to set it up for you in the cloud. I like that idea

Now what is nice is you are not committing the cost of buying the hardware up front. A really nice server these days can be a good $10 - 15K. Maybe cheaper. Most 3rd party cloud services will let you have true scalability for hardware, much better than you could ever do in house if you work for a small to mid-size company. We tested Vista 8.0 in the cloud. They mimicked our server in-house in the cloud. It was dead slow. Then we bought Comcast 100 service and then doubled the resources on the server in the cloud and it was screaming. It was great to see the difference! For the same cost! For our small environment it will cost us about $2100/month. We have 18 user licenses, 2 MES license and our 2 db is about 2GB. I will surpass that expense for a new server within 6 months.

You tell me if it is worth it? I don't think so. Until more people jump on the bandwagon I think it is still a little pricy! But we are going to implement E9 in the could and leave Vista on our server in-house. What I have told my boss is that it is easier to do this now and say "WTF, it is not working let's buy our server again", rather than buying the server first and saying I wish I had migrated to the cloud instead.

Maybe we are wrong....but something to think about. And like I mentioned above, I have no idea how Epicor is selling their services.

Feel free to email me off list if you have more questions!





M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...<mailto:manasa@...>
630.806.2000 x1515

Ex scientia, vera
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:57 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experiance and any hidden costs



Hello,

I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
server when we need it with no interruption.

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Agreed. Being a responsible IT person, I’m a control freak. Tossing my server, data, etc out to the “cloud” to be hosted seems ridiculous to me. The cloud has it’s place, but IMO *not* for a transactional database application. I really don’t understand why anyone would put Epicor in a hosted environment. Perhaps one legitimate scenario would be if the company had 12 different plants scattered around the country. Then *maybe* I’d consider it.

You also must take into consideration redundancy of your connectivity. What happens if your T1 trunk goes down? You’re DIW until it comes back up unless you have a redundant/backup connection.

I use the cloud for Backup. Carbonite works great and is very cost effective and easier than changing tapes, keeping a set off-site, etc. But putting Epicor in the cloud is like putting a Ferrari in a go-cart track.

From: Manasa Reddy
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experience and any hidden costs


Donna,

I will admit we are NOT using Epicor's hosting service but we are looking into putting Epicor "in the cloud". Personally, I think it is a wasted cost. Think about the monthly cost, especially the size of your db because that does get figured in the cost, plus the fact that your db will grow, which will only add to the cost. IS this cost worth it?

On top of that, security is the biggest issue. Your data is being taken care of by someone else, not your company. Although any 3rd party company cannot access your data how do you know that they do not have remote viewing software to watch what you are doing on your "server"? What makes you so sure that the 3rd party couldn't hack into your database? All lovely questions to ask. Granted you are thinking about using Epicor and it just makes it easier when you have issues, the database is there and you don't have to upload it! They can't argue with you and say "we have no idea how you set it up, therefore I cannot help you" because they are the ones to set it up for you in the cloud. I like that idea

Now what is nice is you are not committing the cost of buying the hardware up front. A really nice server these days can be a good $10 - 15K. Maybe cheaper. Most 3rd party cloud services will let you have true scalability for hardware, much better than you could ever do in house if you work for a small to mid-size company. We tested Vista 8.0 in the cloud. They mimicked our server in-house in the cloud. It was dead slow. Then we bought Comcast 100 service and then doubled the resources on the server in the cloud and it was screaming. It was great to see the difference! For the same cost! For our small environment it will cost us about $2100/month. We have 18 user licenses, 2 MES license and our 2 db is about 2GB. I will surpass that expense for a new server within 6 months.

You tell me if it is worth it? I don't think so. Until more people jump on the bandwagon I think it is still a little pricy! But we are going to implement E9 in the could and leave Vista on our server in-house. What I have told my boss is that it is easier to do this now and say "WTF, it is not working let's buy our server again", rather than buying the server first and saying I wish I had migrated to the cloud instead.

Maybe we are wrong....but something to think about. And like I mentioned above, I have no idea how Epicor is selling their services.

Feel free to email me off list if you have more questions!

M. Manasa Reddy
mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com<mailto:mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
630.806.2000 x1515

Ex scientia, vera
________________________________
From: mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:57 AM
To: mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experiance and any hidden costs

Hello,

I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
server when we need it with no interruption.

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4765 - Release Date: 01/25/12


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And that is exactly the reason why we are looking into it. Right now we have two small companies in the Chicago area. We are looking into partnering with a company in India and looking to start another company in Dubai. On top of this we have a lot of guys traveling for installations and sales. We are too small at the moment to put in the capital expenditure that normal larger companies could handle for this type of multi company set up. Pretty much this is the ONLY reason why I am willing to go down this road.

Then we have the whole iphone / ipad craze to add to the mix. But I still hate it since I am also very much a control freak!




M. Manasa Reddy
manasa@...<mailto:manasa@...>
630.806.2000 x1515

Ex scientia, vera
________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vic Drecchio
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:51 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experience and any hidden costs



Agreed. Being a responsible IT person, I'm a control freak. Tossing my server, data, etc out to the "cloud" to be hosted seems ridiculous to me. The cloud has it's place, but IMO *not* for a transactional database application. I really don't understand why anyone would put Epicor in a hosted environment. Perhaps one legitimate scenario would be if the company had 12 different plants scattered around the country. Then *maybe* I'd consider it.

You also must take into consideration redundancy of your connectivity. What happens if your T1 trunk goes down? You're DIW until it comes back up unless you have a redundant/backup connection.

I use the cloud for Backup. Carbonite works great and is very cost effective and easier than changing tapes, keeping a set off-site, etc. But putting Epicor in the cloud is like putting a Ferrari in a go-cart track.

From: Manasa Reddy
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 10:20 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experience and any hidden costs

Donna,

I will admit we are NOT using Epicor's hosting service but we are looking into putting Epicor "in the cloud". Personally, I think it is a wasted cost. Think about the monthly cost, especially the size of your db because that does get figured in the cost, plus the fact that your db will grow, which will only add to the cost. IS this cost worth it?

On top of that, security is the biggest issue. Your data is being taken care of by someone else, not your company. Although any 3rd party company cannot access your data how do you know that they do not have remote viewing software to watch what you are doing on your "server"? What makes you so sure that the 3rd party couldn't hack into your database? All lovely questions to ask. Granted you are thinking about using Epicor and it just makes it easier when you have issues, the database is there and you don't have to upload it! They can't argue with you and say "we have no idea how you set it up, therefore I cannot help you" because they are the ones to set it up for you in the cloud. I like that idea

Now what is nice is you are not committing the cost of buying the hardware up front. A really nice server these days can be a good $10 - 15K. Maybe cheaper. Most 3rd party cloud services will let you have true scalability for hardware, much better than you could ever do in house if you work for a small to mid-size company. We tested Vista 8.0 in the cloud. They mimicked our server in-house in the cloud. It was dead slow. Then we bought Comcast 100 service and then doubled the resources on the server in the cloud and it was screaming. It was great to see the difference! For the same cost! For our small environment it will cost us about $2100/month. We have 18 user licenses, 2 MES license and our 2 db is about 2GB. I will surpass that expense for a new server within 6 months.

You tell me if it is worth it? I don't think so. Until more people jump on the bandwagon I think it is still a little pricy! But we are going to implement E9 in the could and leave Vista on our server in-house. What I have told my boss is that it is easier to do this now and say "WTF, it is not working let's buy our server again", rather than buying the server first and saying I wish I had migrated to the cloud instead.

Maybe we are wrong....but something to think about. And like I mentioned above, I have no idea how Epicor is selling their services.

Feel free to email me off list if you have more questions!

M. Manasa Reddy
mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com<mailto:mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>
630.806.2000 x1515

Ex scientia, vera
________________________________
From: mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:57 AM
To: mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Epicor Hosting Experiance and any hidden costs

Hello,

I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
server when we need it with no interruption.

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4765 - Release Date: 01/25/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Donna,

Hosting is quite a switch for me, I've always been a believer in keeping everything in house.
But, times are changing.
The burden of maintaining hardware, software and IT personnel has steadily grown over the years.
All the tools and infrastructure are so much more well developed these days. And they will only get better.

I am looking at a major upgrade to begin in FY 2014.
Hosting is being seriously considered.
I believe a company can be hosted and be more efficient. (and possibly save some money).



--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnalfleming@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
> using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
> site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
> 20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
> and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
> year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
> anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
> do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
> it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
> server when we need it with no interruption.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Printing is the biggest problem you will run into with remote hosting. You cannot use programs like bartender or service connect with remote hosting. Anything you have in house will not be able to communicate with the hosted solution. They do not provide you a VPN tunnel to the servers, it's a citrix client or some other presentation technology.

Furthermore, if you have any oddball printers you will have to replace them all as the citrix universal print driver doesn't play nice with them. You will need to test all your reports to make sure they print out correctly. The citrix UPD sometimes screws them up.

Last issue is bandwidth. This become extremely painful with large print jobs. Large print jobs will chew up your bandwidth, and until its done being received your users will notice the performance hit.

"Zac" Jason Woodward
Network Administrator
Intermountain Electronics, Inc.
O: 877-544-2291
M: 435-820-6515
F: 435-637-9601
www.ie-corp.com

Creating customer confidence through extraordinary service and experienced industry experts.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cooner_55421
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 9:16 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Epicor Hosting Experiance and any hidden costs



Hi Donna,

Hosting is quite a switch for me, I've always been a believer in keeping everything in house.
But, times are changing.
The burden of maintaining hardware, software and IT personnel has steadily grown over the years.
All the tools and infrastructure are so much more well developed these days. And they will only get better.

I am looking at a major upgrade to begin in FY 2014.
Hosting is being seriously considered.
I believe a company can be hosted and be more efficient. (and possibly save some money).

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, "Donna" <donnalfleming@...<mailto:donnalfleming@...>> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if anyone is using and has any experience with
> using Epicor 9.05 and Epicor help desk hosting service on Epicor's
> site. We currently have a Vantage server 6.1.523 on site with a 40 user
> 20 DC license that I need to upgrade. I would like to know the risks
> and if it's worth the cost to host or keep in-house. I am doing a 5
> year cost analysis on keeping Epicor in house or having it hosted. If
> anyone could comment on either one they feel is better or worst please
> do I appreciate all the insight. I would like to keep it in house where
> it has been with being able to have the ability to have control over the
> server when we need it with no interruption.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]