ERP Alternatives

Yahoo Archive
1
In that same vein. Check the schools in your state and see if they have developed anything (good as an ongoing eaching project & good cheap support to help in state businesses).

--- Original Message ---
From:"Vic Drecchio" <vic.drecchio@...>
Sent:Wed 8/11/10 3:19 pm
To:<vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Subj:RE: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Good points, Jeff.



Another option not yet mentioned is open source (free) ERP.



http://www.openbravo.com/

https://www.jfire.org/





And, frankly, homegrown systems aren't so bad these days especially with
the out-of-box tools such as SQL Server Reporting Services and simple
ASP generated pages.



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff Lewis
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:42 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives





There is(was) another option.

We licensed the source code for Vantage back in 96'. Rarely used support
because the source code is right in front of us. (We paid support like a
good customer and received upgrades.) I have watched users suffer for
years on this forum because they don't have access to the code. Truth be
told most bugs are silly things like choosing the wrong field to read
from or not setting a variable. A lot of these bugs are ten minute
fixes, but if not addressed could make a module unusable or at worst
propagate garbage data throughout the database. There are also poorly
written modules (for us) but I digress.

Well the Epicor management decided to withhold the Business Object and
Database Trigger Code (4GL code) when they opened up the user interface
customization to the masses(.NET). They claim users don't need the
source code - but the business logic is the logic of your business.
Without it the logic is hidden in a black-box which is exceedingly
difficult to troubleshoot. So you have to write more code on top of
faulty code to try and get the behavior you need. An untenable
situation.

If you ever had the veil lifted by having access to the source you would
never go back.

Jeff Lewis
Director of Engineering/IT

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of robertb_versa@... <mailto:robertb_versa%40yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Dale hit the nail on the head: It's about the quality of support over
the expected life of use - weighed against the annual cost for it. That
cost will eventually meet exceed the initial software cost - so make
sure you believe you'll get the value you'll pay for.
Don't just focus on initial cost (or the lowest common denominator
features today's bland, slow (but scaleable) systems have relative to a
decade ago).
Also: Know when to cut your losses (and learn from them) if you goof.
Don't hold the business back for the next decade by being tethered to
the wrong software & support.
Lastly: Do you really need ERP? Are your people and processes strong &
tight enough to 'feed it' (so you don't suffer GIGO) - and are you
willing to adapt processes to bend towards what your system needs fed?
(
2
We are on 6.1 and have been looking at some new modules and evaluating if we should upgrade to 9. My boss is not pleased with the cost involved and has asked me to evaluate other ERP software before we make the decision to upgrade with Epicor or not.

I'm hoping that some of you have recently evaluated other ERP vendors and may share your opinions, good or bad, with me.

Feel free to contact me off site.

Thanks,

Brian
3
We evaluated the first of the year because the owner wanted options. After talking with Oracle, SAP and a couple of others he realized he didn't want to throw out another $250K to change and still pay 18% maintenance. Basically just wasted the IT department's time doing all the research. To get SAP we were looking at about 1 Million after all was said and done. I laughed about that estimate for days.

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B_Stinger
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 1:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] ERP Alternatives



We are on 6.1 and have been looking at some new modules and evaluating if we should upgrade to 9. My boss is not pleased with the cost involved and has asked me to evaluate other ERP software before we make the decision to upgrade with Epicor or not.

I'm hoping that some of you have recently evaluated other ERP vendors and may share your opinions, good or bad, with me.

Feel free to contact me off site.

Thanks,

Brian



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
Brian,
You really need to compile a comprehensive requirements document then carefully measure alternative ERP solutions against how well they support your business requirements. The opinions of others regarding how well their ERP solution fits their company may or may not be relevant for what you are looking for. Having lived in the ERP space for over 20 years and recently completed an ERP solutions search that essentially included about everything from QuickBooks to SAP I can tell you that there is significantly more parity now in the ERP alternatives than ever before. You see there really aren't any new killer applications that one vendor has that others don't. MRP is MRP. Order entry is Order entry, Job scheduling is Job scheduling, etc... Some vendors rely more on third party applications to bolster their suite, while others do not. I tend to favor fewer third party applications since that has historically caused us the most pain in terms of receiving knowledgeable support and insuring tight systems integration.

I think that one of the most significant differences in ERP solutions today is in the quality of support that customers receive. The support charges should really match the level of support received. In other words; if you are willing to pay world-class support fees you had better feel like you are receiving world class support in return. If you are paying bare bones support fees then you should expect much less. The opinions of others about how satisfied they are with value received from their support costs is universally valid across any ERP solution, industry, company size, or market segment. I would tend to rely more on the opinions offered in this group regarding their satisfaction with the support received from EPICOR more than their opinions regarding how satisfied they are with the functionality unless their business requirements are very similar to yours. I would be willing to discuss this offline if you wish.
Good luck!
Dale.



Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated
1409 Vine Street
Le Sueur, MN 56058
ph.507.665.6204 x277
fx .507.665.8466
www.lesueurinc.com<http://www.lesueurinc.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Dale hit the nail on the head: It's about the quality of support over the expected life of use - weighed against the annual cost for it. That cost will eventually meet exceed the initial software cost - so make sure you believe you'll get the value you'll pay for.
Don't just focus on initial cost (or the lowest common denominator features today's bland, slow (but scaleable) systems have relative to a decade ago).
Also: Know when to cut your losses (and learn from them) if you goof. Don't hold the business back for the next decade by being tethered to the wrong software & support.
Lastly: Do you really need ERP? Are your people and processes strong & tight enough to 'feed it' (so you don't suffer GIGO) - and are you willing to adapt processes to bend towards what your system needs fed? (You WILL have to bend.)
Rob

--- Original Message ---
From:"Walker, Dale" <dwalker@...>
Sent:Wed 8/11/10 9:43 am
To:"vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Subj:[Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Brian,
You really need to compile a comprehensive requirements document then carefully measure alternative ERP solutions against how well they support your business requirements. The opinions of others regarding how well their ERP solution fits their company may or may not be relevant for what you are looking for. Having lived in the ERP space for over 20 years and recently completed an ERP solutions search that essentially included about everything from QuickBooks to SAP I can tell you that there is significantly more parity now in the ERP alternatives than ever before. You see there really aren't any new killer applications that one vendor has that others don't. MRP is MRP. Order entry is Order entry, Job scheduling is Job scheduling, etc... Some vendors rely more on third party applications to bolster their suite, while others do not. I tend to favor fewer third party applications since that has historically caused us the most pain in terms of receiving knowledgeable support and insuring tight systems integration.

I think that one of the most significant differences in ERP solutions today is in the quality of support that customers receive. The support charges should really match the level of support received. In other words; if you are willing to pay world-class support fees you had better feel like you are receiving world class support in return. If you are paying bare bones support fees then you should expect much less. The opinions of others about how satisfied they are with value received from their support costs is universally valid across any ERP solution, industry, company size, or market segment. I would tend to rely more on the opinions offered in this group regarding their satisfaction with the support received from EPICOR more than their opinions regarding how satisfied they are with the functionality unless their business requirements are very similar to yours. I would be willing to discuss this offline if you wish.
Good luck!
Dale.



Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated
1409 Vine Street
Le Sueur, MN 56058
ph.507.665.6204 x277
fx .507.665.8466
www.lesueurinc.com<http://www.lesueurinc.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
There is(was) another option.

We licensed the source code for Vantage back in 96'. Rarely used support because the source code is right in front of us. (We paid support like a good customer and received upgrades.) I have watched users suffer for years on this forum because they don't have access to the code. Truth be told most bugs are silly things like choosing the wrong field to read from or not setting a variable. A lot of these bugs are ten minute fixes, but if not addressed could make a module unusable or at worst propagate garbage data throughout the database. There are also poorly written modules (for us) but I digress.

Well the Epicor management decided to withhold the Business Object and Database Trigger Code (4GL code) when they opened up the user interface customization to the masses(.NET). They claim users don't need the source code - but the business logic is the logic of your business. Without it the logic is hidden in a black-box which is exceedingly difficult to troubleshoot. So you have to write more code on top of faulty code to try and get the behavior you need. An untenable situation.

If you ever had the veil lifted by having access to the source you would never go back.

Jeff Lewis
Director of Engineering/IT


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robertb_versa@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Dale hit the nail on the head: It's about the quality of support over the expected life of use - weighed against the annual cost for it. That cost will eventually meet exceed the initial software cost - so make sure you believe you'll get the value you'll pay for.
Don't just focus on initial cost (or the lowest common denominator features today's bland, slow (but scaleable) systems have relative to a decade ago).
Also: Know when to cut your losses (and learn from them) if you goof. Don't hold the business back for the next decade by being tethered to the wrong software & support.
Lastly: Do you really need ERP? Are your people and processes strong & tight enough to 'feed it' (so you don't suffer GIGO) - and are you willing to adapt processes to bend towards what your system needs fed? (You WILL have to bend.)
Rob

--- Original Message ---
From:"Walker, Dale" <dwalker@...>
Sent:Wed 8/11/10 9:43 am
To:"vantage@yahoogroups.com" <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Subj:[Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Brian,
You really need to compile a comprehensive requirements document then carefully measure alternative ERP solutions against how well they support your business requirements. The opinions of others regarding how well their ERP solution fits their company may or may not be relevant for what you are looking for. Having lived in the ERP space for over 20 years and recently completed an ERP solutions search that essentially included about everything from QuickBooks to SAP I can tell you that there is significantly more parity now in the ERP alternatives than ever before. You see there really aren't any new killer applications that one vendor has that others don't. MRP is MRP. Order entry is Order entry, Job scheduling is Job scheduling, etc... Some vendors rely more on third party applications to bolster their suite, while others do not. I tend to favor fewer third party applications since that has historically caused us the most pain in terms of receiving knowledgeable support and insuring tight systems integration.

I think that one of the most significant differences in ERP solutions today is in the quality of support that customers receive. The support charges should really match the level of support received. In other words; if you are willing to pay world-class support fees you had better feel like you are receiving world class support in return. If you are paying bare bones support fees then you should expect much less. The opinions of others about how satisfied they are with value received from their support costs is universally valid across any ERP solution, industry, company size, or market segment. I would tend to rely more on the opinions offered in this group regarding their satisfaction with the support received from EPICOR more than their opinions regarding how satisfied they are with the functionality unless their business requirements are very similar to yours. I would be willing to discuss this offline if you wish.
Good luck!
Dale.



Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated
1409 Vine Street
Le Sueur, MN 56058
ph.507.665.6204 x277
fx .507.665.8466
www.lesueurinc.com<http://www.lesueurinc.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
7
Good points, Jeff.



Another option not yet mentioned is open source (free) ERP.



http://www.openbravo.com/

https://www.jfire.org/





And, frankly, homegrown systems aren't so bad these days especially with
the out-of-box tools such as SQL Server Reporting Services and simple
ASP generated pages.



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff Lewis
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:42 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives





There is(was) another option.

We licensed the source code for Vantage back in 96'. Rarely used support
because the source code is right in front of us. (We paid support like a
good customer and received upgrades.) I have watched users suffer for
years on this forum because they don't have access to the code. Truth be
told most bugs are silly things like choosing the wrong field to read
from or not setting a variable. A lot of these bugs are ten minute
fixes, but if not addressed could make a module unusable or at worst
propagate garbage data throughout the database. There are also poorly
written modules (for us) but I digress.

Well the Epicor management decided to withhold the Business Object and
Database Trigger Code (4GL code) when they opened up the user interface
customization to the masses(.NET). They claim users don't need the
source code - but the business logic is the logic of your business.
Without it the logic is hidden in a black-box which is exceedingly
difficult to troubleshoot. So you have to write more code on top of
faulty code to try and get the behavior you need. An untenable
situation.

If you ever had the veil lifted by having access to the source you would
never go back.

Jeff Lewis
Director of Engineering/IT

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of robertb_versa@... <mailto:robertb_versa%40yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:09 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Dale hit the nail on the head: It's about the quality of support over
the expected life of use - weighed against the annual cost for it. That
cost will eventually meet exceed the initial software cost - so make
sure you believe you'll get the value you'll pay for.
Don't just focus on initial cost (or the lowest common denominator
features today's bland, slow (but scaleable) systems have relative to a
decade ago).
Also: Know when to cut your losses (and learn from them) if you goof.
Don't hold the business back for the next decade by being tethered to
the wrong software & support.
Lastly: Do you really need ERP? Are your people and processes strong &
tight enough to 'feed it' (so you don't suffer GIGO) - and are you
willing to adapt processes to bend towards what your system needs fed?
(You WILL have to bend.)
Rob

--- Original Message ---
From:"Walker, Dale" <dwalker@...
<mailto:dwalker%40lesueurinc.com> >
Sent:Wed 8/11/10 9:43 am
To:"vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> "
<vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subj:[Vantage] Re:ERP Alternatives

Brian,
You really need to compile a comprehensive requirements document then
carefully measure alternative ERP solutions against how well they
support your business requirements. The opinions of others regarding how
well their ERP solution fits their company may or may not be relevant
for what you are looking for. Having lived in the ERP space for over 20
years and recently completed an ERP solutions search that essentially
included about everything from QuickBooks to SAP I can tell you that
there is significantly more parity now in the ERP alternatives than ever
before. You see there really aren't any new killer applications that one
vendor has that others don't. MRP is MRP. Order entry is Order entry,
Job scheduling is Job scheduling, etc... Some vendors rely more on third
party applications to bolster their suite, while others do not. I tend
to favor fewer third party applications since that has historically
caused us the most pain in terms of receiving knowledgeable support a!
nd insuring tight systems integration.

I think that one of the most significant differences in ERP solutions
today is in the quality of support that customers receive. The support
charges should really match the level of support received. In other
words; if you are willing to pay world-class support fees you had better
feel like you are receiving world class support in return. If you are
paying bare bones support fees then you should expect much less. The
opinions of others about how satisfied they are with value received from
their support costs is universally valid across any ERP solution,
industry, company size, or market segment. I would tend to rely more on
the opinions offered in this group regarding their satisfaction with the
support received from EPICOR more than their opinions regarding how
satisfied they are with the functionality unless their business
requirements are very similar to yours. I would be willing to discuss
this offline if you wish.
Good luck!
Dale.

Dale Walker
Director, Information Technology
Le Sueur Incorporated
1409 Vine Street
Le Sueur, MN 56058
ph.507.665.6204 x277
fx .507.665.8466
www.lesueurinc.com<http://www.lesueurinc.com/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]