For those going to Perspectives

Yahoo Archive
1
This must be an 8.0 thing. We have multi-currency w/o any language
other than English and don't have any problems. Something to write down
on my list for 8.0 testing!

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of cpsadp
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:37 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: For those going to Perspectives...



I'm discovering the same thing. How about the "Multi-Currency"
module that won't allow you to print in multi-currencies unless you
buy separate language packages at $7,500 each? That's a neat
trick. I need the language pack to even print NUMBERS instead of
words on the check.

And it only took me 6 weeks and 12 emails with support to get them
to confirm this.

sigh.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Mark Wonsil" <mark_wonsil@...>
wrote:
>
> I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet
another package
> and not a part of the base Vantage package.
>
> OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they
don't use
> but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for
development for all
> new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and
this is a
> common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and
ten granding)
> for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier
pricing
> schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for
those who are
> not (which includes new customers).
>
> I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is
that if Epicor
> asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When
a potential
> customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If
they want
> more information, just give them this:
>
> ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
> Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
> $5000
>
> RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
> Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
> $1750/Day (+Expenses)
>
> CRS - Custom Reference Site:
> Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
> Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.
>
> <sigh>
>
> Mark W.
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet another package
and not a part of the base Vantage package.

OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they don't use
but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for development for all
new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and this is a
common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and ten granding)
for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier pricing
schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for those who are
not (which includes new customers).

I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is that if Epicor
asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When a potential
customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If they want
more information, just give them this:

ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
$5000

RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
$1750/Day (+Expenses)

CRS - Custom Reference Site:
Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.

<sigh>

Mark W.
3
You know Mark, that isn't such a bad or unusual idea. With our previous ERP package, if you were a reference site, they gave you credits for service
time. When I was asked to be a reference some time ago, I brought that up with the CAM, but then I wasn't called - I don't know if that is the reason?
I certainly don't think that is an unreasonable request. You're giving up time to help them and the potential buyers - it should be worth something.

Julie
Mercury Minnesota Inc.


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Wonsil
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...


I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet another package
and not a part of the base Vantage package.

OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they don't use
but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for development for all
new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and this is a
common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and ten granding)
for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier pricing
schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for those who are
not (which includes new customers).

I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is that if Epicor
asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When a potential
customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If they want
more information, just give them this:

ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
$5000

RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
$1750/Day (+Expenses)

CRS - Custom Reference Site:
Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.

<sigh>

Mark W.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
Are they actually charging you for the credit card interface? Or, are you referring to the fact that you have to pay a 3rd party (i.e. Verisign or Authorize.net) to manage the transactions.


Mark Wonsil <mark_wonsil@...> wrote: I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet another package
and not a part of the base Vantage package.

OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they don't use
but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for development for all
new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and this is a
common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and ten granding)
for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier pricing
schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for those who are
not (which includes new customers).

I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is that if Epicor
asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When a potential
customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If they want
more information, just give them this:

ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
$5000

RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
$1750/Day (+Expenses)

CRS - Custom Reference Site:
Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.

<sigh>

Mark W.






---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
Epicor does have a reference program called EpicValue. As of a year or so ago they codified the "rewards" part of it but I have never been clear on the exact value. Used to be it could involve a discount on Perspectives or training. Probably good if it is not a really large value because I don't want it to sway me in relating everything...the good, the bad and the ugly as I see it. I do 3-4 telephone reference calls and maybe 2 site visits a year and a bigger value to me, personally, is talking to other companies and networking.
-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Julie Lehmann
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:21 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...



You know Mark, that isn't such a bad or unusual idea. With our previous ERP package, if you were a reference site, they gave you credits for service
time. When I was asked to be a reference some time ago, I brought that up with the CAM, but then I wasn't called - I don't know if that is the reason?
I certainly don't think that is an unreasonable request. You're giving up time to help them and the potential buyers - it should be worth something.

Julie
Mercury Minnesota Inc.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Wonsil
To: vantage@yahoogroups <mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...

I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet another package
and not a part of the base Vantage package.

OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they don't use
but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for development for all
new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and this is a
common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and ten granding)
for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier pricing
schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for those who are
not (which includes new customers).

I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is that if Epicor
asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When a potential
customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If they want
more information, just give them this:

ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
$5000

RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
$1750/Day (+Expenses)

CRS - Custom Reference Site:
Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.

<sigh>

Mark W.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6
> Are they actually charging you for the credit card interface?

Yes - $7500. If you go to the Admin tools, you'll see credit card processing
on the uninstalled side and our license codes for 8.03 did not include one for
Credit Card processing. It DID include one for the BPM server though, so kudos
to Epicor on that decision.

> Or, are you
> referring to the fact that you have to pay a 3rd party (i.e. Verisign or
> Authorize.net) to manage the transactions.

No, we already use Verisign, er, PayPal Pay Flow Pro. The $7500 is for the
license key to activate it.

Mark W.
7
I keep forgetting that I'm still new to this world and people don't know that
I'm a smarta$$. (But I think they're catching on...) The pay-for-referral bit
was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek...

> Epicor does have a reference program called EpicValue. As of a year or so
> ago they codified the "rewards" part of it but I have never been clear on
> the exact value. Used to be it could involve a discount on Perspectives or
> training. Probably good if it is not a really large value because I don't
> want it to sway me in relating everything...the good, the bad and the ugly
> as I see it.

I NEVER accept referral fees from any company for this very reason. How could
anyone trust my judgment if I'm getting paid for it? If I wanted to do that,
I'd become a stock broker...

:-o

Mark W.
8
Yeah...I got the first one OK and appreciated the sentiment.

Any "reward" of any value beyond key chains, coffee mugs, etc.. I view as compensation to my employer for my time and not to me directly for my views. I wouldn't be paying for Perspectives or training from my pocket so it's nothing that benefits me. I think they have it set up this way on purpose for just the reasons you state. I fired my stock broker a long time ago when he tried to talk me out of buying EPIC at $1.70. BTW I no longer own EPIC (at the moment anyway).
-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...



I keep forgetting that I'm still new to this world and people don't know that
I'm a smarta$$. (But I think they're catching on...) The pay-for-referral bit
was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek...

> Epicor does have a reference program called EpicValue. As of a year or so
> ago they codified the "rewards" part of it but I have never been clear on
> the exact value. Used to be it could involve a discount on Perspectives or
> training. Probably good if it is not a really large value because I don't
> want it to sway me in relating everything...the good, the bad and the ugly
> as I see it.

I NEVER accept referral fees from any company for this very reason. How could
anyone trust my judgment if I'm getting paid for it? If I wanted to do that,
I'd become a stock broker...

:-o

Mark W.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Mama always told me "it's better to be a smart a$$ than to be a dumb
a$$"

Todd

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...



I keep forgetting that I'm still new to this world and people don't know
that
I'm a smarta$$. (But I think they're catching on...) The
pay-for-referral bit
was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek...

> Epicor does have a reference program called EpicValue. As of a year or
so
> ago they codified the "rewards" part of it but I have never been clear
on
> the exact value. Used to be it could involve a discount on
Perspectives or
> training. Probably good if it is not a really large value because I
don't
> want it to sway me in relating everything...the good, the bad and the
ugly
> as I see it.

I NEVER accept referral fees from any company for this very reason. How
could
anyone trust my judgment if I'm getting paid for it? If I wanted to do
that,
I'd become a stock broker...

:-o

Mark W.






This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
10
Having been involved in the selection of ERP solutions with prior
employers, we had the where with all to negotiate a 25% discount on all
additional modules that we purchase within the first two years.
Surprisingly we didn't have to pull teeth to get Epicor to agree.



________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:03 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] For those going to Perspectives...



I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet another
package
and not a part of the base Vantage package.

OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they don't
use
but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for development
for all
new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and this is a
common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and ten
granding)
for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier pricing
schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for those
who are
not (which includes new customers).

I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is that if
Epicor
asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When a
potential
customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If they
want
more information, just give them this:

ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
$5000

RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
$1750/Day (+Expenses)

CRS - Custom Reference Site:
Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.

<sigh>

Mark W.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
11
I'm discovering the same thing. How about the "Multi-Currency"
module that won't allow you to print in multi-currencies unless you
buy separate language packages at $7,500 each? That's a neat
trick. I need the language pack to even print NUMBERS instead of
words on the check.

And it only took me 6 weeks and 12 emails with support to get them
to confirm this.

sigh.




--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wonsil" <mark_wonsil@...>
wrote:
>
> I have discovered that credit card processing in 8.03 is yet
another package
> and not a part of the base Vantage package.
>
> OK, I understand the idea that people shouldn't pay for what they
don't use
> but on the other hand, our maintenance dollars do pay for
development for all
> new products as well. I've had others contact me privately and
this is a
> common complaint about Epicor; nickel-and-diming (well five and
ten granding)
> for every enhancement to the system. There should be a two-tier
pricing
> schedule for new features, one for those on support and one for
those who are
> not (which includes new customers).
>
> I don't know what to do about it. I guess my only suggestion is
that if Epicor
> asks you to be a reference site, by all means, please do so. When
a potential
> customer calls, just tell them that you run Vantage or Vista. If
they want
> more information, just give them this:
>
> ARS - Advanced Reference Site:
> Reveals which Vantage/Vista products you own/use.
> $5000
>
> RSC - Reference Site Consulting:
> Answer questions about Vantage/Vista not in the sales literature.
> $1750/Day (+Expenses)
>
> CRS - Custom Reference Site:
> Explain how your business uses Vantage/Vista.
> Requires Quote: Please allow six to eight weeks.
>
> <sigh>
>
> Mark W.
>
12
> I'm discovering the same thing. How about the "Multi-Currency"
> module that won't allow you to print in multi-currencies unless you
> buy separate language packages at $7,500 each? That's a neat
> trick. I need the language pack to even print NUMBERS instead of
> words on the check.

Do you remember when you were first able to buy movies? The price was over $90
and that was VHS at the time! The studios didn't sell that many movies. When
the movie industry moved to the "priced to sell" model by reducing the price
of movies to $20-$30, the revenue of movies purchased eventually rose to the
point that some movies go straight to video.

Epicor should consider pricing their modules "to sell". Unlike videos, which
the consumer pays for only once, Epicor would add some serious dollars to its
support revenue stream. Instead, this nickel and diming the installed base
leaves many frustrated, and you end up with fewer users of the module because
you're relying on only the new customers to take the charge. The new customers
get frustrated because they have no experience with any of the software and
because of the pricing, the installed base can't help them out.

If I were King at Epicor, I would give the first X number of users a shot at a
new module for the price of support. It'll be buggy anyway, so you'll be
paying for it in other ways. After that, I would sell modules to users who
have paid a full year's support at 50% off.

BTW, 8.03 has some fields on the Part Maintenance screen for printing
certification documents - I just don't know how much it'll cost you to use
them...

> And it only took me 6 weeks and 12 emails with support to get them
> to confirm this.

There's no doubt that the development team is "out-kicking their coverage", to
borrow a phrase from the gridiron. Personally, I see some cool things coming
out of the development team but the infrastructure doesn't seem to be there to
support it just yet.

Mark W.
13
Nice idea for Epicor developed modules but I see a strong trend towards 3rd party modules (FRx, Open4, CorVu..to name a few) over which they have little pricing control other than trying to negotiate their own cut of the action. Hopefully they could use the same negotiating skills they use to justify high module prices from the installed based to get a "better" price fron the 3rd party vendors and at least pass a little on to us. Right, dream on. Still even at parity with independently buying form 3rd party there are defnite advantages to buying through Epicor, including integration and some level of support.
-Todd C.



-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mark Wonsil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: For those going to Perspectives...



> I'm discovering the same thing. How about the "Multi-Currency"
> module that won't allow you to print in multi-currencies unless you
> buy separate language packages at $7,500 each? That's a neat
> trick. I need the language pack to even print NUMBERS instead of
> words on the check.

Do you remember when you were first able to buy movies? The price was over $90
and that was VHS at the time! The studios didn't sell that many movies. When
the movie industry moved to the "priced to sell" model by reducing the price
of movies to $20-$30, the revenue of movies purchased eventually rose to the
point that some movies go straight to video.

Epicor should consider pricing their modules "to sell". Unlike videos, which
the consumer pays for only once, Epicor would add some serious dollars to its
support revenue stream. Instead, this nickel and diming the installed base
leaves many frustrated, and you end up with fewer users of the module because
you're relying on only the new customers to take the charge. The new customers
get frustrated because they have no experience with any of the software and
because of the pricing, the installed base can't help them out.

If I were King at Epicor, I would give the first X number of users a shot at a
new module for the price of support. It'll be buggy anyway, so you'll be
paying for it in other ways. After that, I would sell modules to users who
have paid a full year's support at 50% off.

BTW, 8.03 has some fields on the Part Maintenance screen for printing
certification documents - I just don't know how much it'll cost you to use
them...

> And it only took me 6 weeks and 12 emails with support to get them
> to confirm this.

There's no doubt that the development team is "out-kicking their coverage", to
borrow a phrase from the gridiron. Personally, I see some cool things coming
out of the development team but the infrastructure doesn't seem to be there to
support it just yet.

Mark W.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14
> Nice idea for Epicor developed modules but I see a strong trend towards 3rd
> party modules (FRx, Open4, CorVu..to name a few)

Excellent point Todd, I forgot to mention that. But even if I were a 3rd party
developer, would I want to get 60 sales of which 20 gets returned and you get
little or no support or do you take the plunge, get 600 installs and a cut of
that support stream? This makes sense for an AdvancedShip but probably
wouldn't work that well for Microsoft's FRx...

> Still even at parity with independently buying form 3rd party there are
> defnite advantages to buying through Epicor, including integration and some
> level of support.

Yes, 3rd party stuff is scary to me. You're always going to be behind on
upgrades and you never know if Epicor might switch to a different vendor. I
think Epicor would do better by buying the 3rd party developers where
practical and work the knowledge into their system. (I assume the credit card
processing capabilities was driven in part by the POS company they bought this
year...)

Kindest regards,

Mark W.
15
>> the POS company they bought <<
They aren't that bad are they? OH, wait....Point of Sale, never mind. ;)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]