OFFTOPIC - ESPRIT vs MASTERCAM for EDM and some 3D Milling on M

Yahoo Archive
1
I have gone thru the same process (Selecting a CAM Package) about 4 years ago.

The most important thing is to understand what type of business you do as this will relate in the type of CAM programming you will need. I read you do EDM and 3D Machining, if you do use the system for that, then select a package that was developped at the "root" as a 3D milling / EDM Package and not a package that "added" those functionality after the fact.

One thing that you did not mention is the number of axis (machines axis) that you need to control simultanously (referred to "axis of interpolation") as there is a huge difference in the CAM Software when it comes to 3D/3 Axis programming/machining and 3D / 4,5 and more Axis programming/machining. I ask because a lot of EDM machines (Specially the Wire type) and CNC Milling machines have more than 3 axis.

Let me know,

Max

PS: As much as I like MasterCam, it is/was a 2D "based" system...

Thomas Wojewoda <twojewoda@...> wrote:
And that is where my problem lies; our "users" have no say so, our tool
room manager doesn't know Esprit at all and without any evaluation wants
to get rid of it. The information I have gathered online and from the
machine and software vendors says that Esprit is the way to go. What I
was looking for is someone who has an evaluation done in the way you
specified, and I have found one, so I think I should be good now.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of John Sage
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:59 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] OFFTOPIC - ESPRIT vs MASTERCAM for EDM and some
3D Milling on Mitsu Machine

Thomas,

I'm IT, not shop floor, as yourself. You don't need to answer the
questions by yourself, nor should you try. That's why you need to get
significant input from the users (the true owners of the program).

However if you don't have the time to do an evaluation, you should hand
off the decision to someone who does.

have fun,
john



Thomas Wojewoda wrote:
> Thanks for the info, I would be glad to do that if I had the time and
> last but not least knowledge of CAD/CAM, I'm IT not shop floor, I can
> only rely on other peoples info.
> I have obtained an evaluation done by someone else that will probably
> help me with the problem.
>
> Thanks













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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2
I am an IS Manager for a large automotive part manufacturer. I am in a
small battle for getting my companies software - Esprit - to the newest
version, instead of dumping it and getting it replaced with MasterCAM.
Is there anyone who can give me a comprehensive scoop on the +/- of
these software solutions. Everyone I have consulted says ESPRIT is much
better, I need a specialists point of view, since none of my employees
have sufficient training on the newest Esprit or any comprehensive
knowledge on MasterCAM. The only person trying to push MasterCAM is my
Tool room manager who is new and has no knowledge of Esprit. Thanks for
any info.

Any info will be good, link to comparisons, live feedback, ANYTHING I
can make the right decision.


Thomas Wojewoda
IS Manager
Principal Manufacturing Corp.
2800 South 19th Ave.
Broadview, IL 60155
http://www.principalmfg.com <http://www.principalmfg.com/>
ph. (708) 865 7500
fx. (708) 865 7632
cl. (708) 259 4864



********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
Thomas,

Have you sat down and done a software comparison? Rather than doing
battle, try this approach:

Identify the specific needs of your tool room:
What machines need to be supported?
What controls do they have?
How will they communicate?

Identify features that your users need:
Simulation / verification required?
Templates?
Side-by-side code comparison?

Identify the integrations required:
3D/2D CAD?
Vantage?
Third-party BOM support?
EDM/PLM/Doc mgmt

etc ...

When you've formulated a list of parameters, then evaluate solution
candidates: Esprit, MasterCAM, Predator, CamSoft, etc. See how well
each of them map to your requirements.

Next look at costs:
How many user seats needed?
What is the upgrade cost for Esprit?
What are the purchase costs for other suitable candidates?
How much is support?
How much for annual maintenance?
How much for required platform upgrades?
What kind of training is available?

Once you've identified two or three candidates, go out and look for user
opinions. Call related shops and ask what they use and how they feel
about it. Mine the newsgroups (http://groups.google.com). Ask here on
the Vantage list (as you've done today).

Following this recipe will allow you to make a compelling, intelligent
selection based squarely on the needs of your shop. Very few people
will be able to argue against that.

have fun,
john



Thomas Wojewoda wrote:
> I am an IS Manager for a large automotive part manufacturer. I am in a
> small battle for getting my companies software - Esprit - to the newest
> version, instead of dumping it and getting it replaced with MasterCAM.
> Is there anyone who can give me a comprehensive scoop on the +/- of
> these software solutions. Everyone I have consulted says ESPRIT is much
> better, I need a specialists point of view, since none of my employees
> have sufficient training on the newest Esprit or any comprehensive
> knowledge on MasterCAM. The only person trying to push MasterCAM is my
> Tool room manager who is new and has no knowledge of Esprit. Thanks for
> any info.
>
> Any info will be good, link to comparisons, live feedback, ANYTHING I
> can make the right decision.
>
>
> Thomas Wojewoda
4
Thanks for the info, I would be glad to do that if I had the time and
last but not least knowledge of CAD/CAM, I'm IT not shop floor, I can
only rely on other peoples info.
I have obtained an evaluation done by someone else that will probably
help me with the problem.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of John Sage
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] OFFTOPIC - ESPRIT vs MASTERCAM for EDM and some
3D Milling on Mitsu Machine

Thomas,

Have you sat down and done a software comparison? Rather than doing
battle, try this approach:

Identify the specific needs of your tool room:
What machines need to be supported?
What controls do they have?
How will they communicate?

Identify features that your users need:
Simulation / verification required?
Templates?
Side-by-side code comparison?

Identify the integrations required:
3D/2D CAD?
Vantage?
Third-party BOM support?
EDM/PLM/Doc mgmt

etc ...

When you've formulated a list of parameters, then evaluate solution
candidates: Esprit, MasterCAM, Predator, CamSoft, etc. See how well
each of them map to your requirements.

Next look at costs:
How many user seats needed?
What is the upgrade cost for Esprit?
What are the purchase costs for other suitable candidates?
How much is support?
How much for annual maintenance?
How much for required platform upgrades?
What kind of training is available?

Once you've identified two or three candidates, go out and look for user

opinions. Call related shops and ask what they use and how they feel
about it. Mine the newsgroups (http://groups.google.com). Ask here on
the Vantage list (as you've done today).

Following this recipe will allow you to make a compelling, intelligent
selection based squarely on the needs of your shop. Very few people
will be able to argue against that.

have fun,
john



Thomas Wojewoda wrote:
> I am an IS Manager for a large automotive part manufacturer. I am in a
> small battle for getting my companies software - Esprit - to the
newest
> version, instead of dumping it and getting it replaced with MasterCAM.
> Is there anyone who can give me a comprehensive scoop on the +/- of
> these software solutions. Everyone I have consulted says ESPRIT is
much
> better, I need a specialists point of view, since none of my employees
> have sufficient training on the newest Esprit or any comprehensive
> knowledge on MasterCAM. The only person trying to push MasterCAM is my
> Tool room manager who is new and has no knowledge of Esprit. Thanks
for
> any info.
>
> Any info will be good, link to comparisons, live feedback, ANYTHING I
> can make the right decision.
>
>
> Thomas Wojewoda





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links









********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
5
Thomas,

I'm IT, not shop floor, as yourself. You don't need to answer the
questions by yourself, nor should you try. That's why you need to get
significant input from the users (the true owners of the program).

However if you don't have the time to do an evaluation, you should hand
off the decision to someone who does.

have fun,
john



Thomas Wojewoda wrote:
> Thanks for the info, I would be glad to do that if I had the time and
> last but not least knowledge of CAD/CAM, I'm IT not shop floor, I can
> only rely on other peoples info.
> I have obtained an evaluation done by someone else that will probably
> help me with the problem.
>
> Thanks
6
And that is where my problem lies; our "users" have no say so, our tool
room manager doesn't know Esprit at all and without any evaluation wants
to get rid of it. The information I have gathered online and from the
machine and software vendors says that Esprit is the way to go. What I
was looking for is someone who has an evaluation done in the way you
specified, and I have found one, so I think I should be good now.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of John Sage
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:59 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] OFFTOPIC - ESPRIT vs MASTERCAM for EDM and some
3D Milling on Mitsu Machine

Thomas,

I'm IT, not shop floor, as yourself. You don't need to answer the
questions by yourself, nor should you try. That's why you need to get
significant input from the users (the true owners of the program).

However if you don't have the time to do an evaluation, you should hand
off the decision to someone who does.

have fun,
john



Thomas Wojewoda wrote:
> Thanks for the info, I would be glad to do that if I had the time and
> last but not least knowledge of CAD/CAM, I'm IT not shop floor, I can
> only rely on other peoples info.
> I have obtained an evaluation done by someone else that will probably
> help me with the problem.
>
> Thanks













Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links









********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.