Part Number advise

system · August 30, 2001, 7:43pm

Cameron,

Not to diminish the "Bravo!" given Todd earlier, but you deserve one
also!

Lonnie

--- In vantage@y..., "Cameron A. Janish" <cajanish@h...> wrote:
> .......you have a description field
> that contains meaningful information about the part. You can
>search on this
> field........... Use the fields for what they were designed for and
>quit making a project out
>of nothing. (Not you, but management.) Suggest that possibly this
>manager
>does not have enough to occupy his time and should take up golf.

system · August 29, 2001, 12:53pm

Paul,

Not that it will do you any good but you should remind your owners /
presidents that back in the mid-60's IBM did a major study of part numbering
/ lettering schemes to try to decide what made the most sense.

The verdict:

* Use straight numbers - preferably in triplets like 123-456 - because (1)
you only need to use the numeric keypad to enter them witches saves you tons
of time and (2) the error rate is extremely low

* Long "meaningful" part numbers (1) take a long time to enter (2) have a
high error rate because most of the population does not touch type very
effectively

* "Meaningful" part numbering schemes usually loose relevance within 10
years. The next generation will have their own view of what constitutes
"Meaningful". So expect to re-number your items every 10-12 years or decide
to just live with a convention that was outdated back when.

My suggestion - come up with 50 Long and Meaningful part numbers and then
ask you President to enter them into a spreadsheet. Then ask him to enter
50 old style part numbers. Time both exercises and check for errors. If
he/she has a brain she will get the point VERY quickly.

About 11 years ago I worked for a company with approx. 90,000 part numbers
on file. We hired a new VP who decided he didn't like the descriptions for
the parts. He wanted descriptions like "Bearing, Radial, 1/2" x 4" etc.
As the prog/analyst assigned to the project I had a meeting with him. His
proposal was to hire a few temps and have them pull the prints, write down a
decent description, and then enter it into the main system. He figured they
would be done in a few weeks - no big deal. I thought that sounded like a
terrific plan so I asked him the obvious question - How long did he think it
was going to take - per part. He figured about 5 minutes to pull the print
etc. Being an efficient geek I pulled out my handy pocket calculator,
switched from base 16 to base 10, and said ok 90,000 parts x 5 min each =
450,000 min = /60 = 7,500 hrs - /8 = 937.5 days .... He was planning on
hiring 3 temps ... so /3 = 312.5 days each /200 days per year = 1.5625 years
- each. Not just a few weeks. As I was doing this math - out loud -
there was dead silence in the room. When I finished and looked up 3 of the
other 4 people were having a hard time keeping a straight face and the
fourth just looked dumb. Needless to say this project ended with the
meeting. A nice memo did goto engineering asking them to use the new
convention for all new parts and for any revisions with the idea that over
time the descriptions would in fact become more accurate.

I sincerely hope common sense wins the day for you !!! Your current system
would be the envy for most companies.

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:58 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Vantage] Part Number advise

My company is planning to change our part numbering system from a strictly
numerical format (123-456), to a mixed format, which can contain as many as
16 characters (both letters and numbers). We carry a large amount of
manufactured and purchased part numbers (it might be time for a big purge).
Of course, I am the fortunate one to carry out the task of making sure
everything will work nicely together come Jan. 1, 2002.
On top of this change, we currently have a even relationship between mfg
part number and DWG file number; the drawing for part 123-456 can be found
on the drawing server as file 123-456.dwg. In management's infinite wisdom
we will also do away with this logic and place multiple parts on one
drawing. Just to add to the fun.

Anyway, is there anyone who has renamed all part numbers in the part master
and is willing to share their experience with me?

TIA,

Paul Siebers

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system · August 29, 2001, 1:55pm

BRAVO,TODD! (standing ovation in progress) You may have just saved
Paul from a nightmare incarnate.

But what if management DOESN'T listen? I've thought before about
what it would take to replace/delete one partnum, let alone all.

If replacing a part name, wouldn't you have to replace all references
to that part in other tables (part, partrev, partaudit, partbin,
partwhse, partdtl, partdim, parttran, other part tables, orderdtl,
orderrel, jobhead, jobasmbl, joboper, jobmtl, shipdtl, invcdtl, and
I'm sure many others)?

The Vantage part replace/delete program only replaces/deletes
references to the part in bill of materials? What about any custom
reports/programs that link from part->jobhead, shipdtl, invcdtl,
parttran, partbin and others, or vice-versa? Is there a partnum
database write trigger that replaces all references to that part? I
doubt it.

And what if drawing filenames change? A Progress program could be
written that lists all part images, allows user to select one, then
user types/enters a new image name, and the program copies and
renames the image file. The Drawings table in Vantage would have to
be mass updated also.

If anyone has written a program to replace/delete a partnum, I would
also like to hear what it took. Is there a simpler approach I'm
overlooking?

Mark? william? I'm sure you guys have done it.

Lonnie

system · August 29, 2001, 2:35pm

Lonnie,
We have a commercial product that renames all references. As it
stands now I think there are more than 40 tables that need to be checked in
order to make it work. We do not allow the triggers to fire at all. When the
replace is done the system never knows it happened except for a reference in
a log file we create.
We also have the ability to change a group of part numbers to a
dummy part number so the part masters can be deleted. This utility is also
used to consolidate two part numbers for use when a part number was off by
one character and then had transactions posted to it.
Most of our replace functions are written by development tools we
have created here to make life a little easier on us. They trace the
database integrity and then create the replace procedures. We also use
custom triggers (7000+ Procedures) to trace everything that happens in
Vantage to make debugging alot easier.

Mark Charamut

President
Caesar Development Services, LLC
Epicor Authorized Independent Solution Provider
mcharamut@...
www.caesardev.com
(860) 667-4774 x20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:50 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise
>
>
> BRAVO,TODD! (standing ovation in progress) You may have just saved
> Paul from a nightmare incarnate.
>
> But what if management DOESN'T listen? I've thought before about
> what it would take to replace/delete one partnum, let alone all.
>
> If replacing a part name, wouldn't you have to replace all references
> to that part in other tables (part, partrev, partaudit, partbin,
> partwhse, partdtl, partdim, parttran, other part tables, orderdtl,
> orderrel, jobhead, jobasmbl, joboper, jobmtl, shipdtl, invcdtl, and
> I'm sure many others)?
>
> The Vantage part replace/delete program only replaces/deletes
> references to the part in bill of materials? What about any custom
> reports/programs that link from part->jobhead, shipdtl, invcdtl,
> parttran, partbin and others, or vice-versa? Is there a partnum
> database write trigger that replaces all references to that part? I
> doubt it.
>
> And what if drawing filenames change? A Progress program could be
> written that lists all part images, allows user to select one, then
> user types/enters a new image name, and the program copies and
> renames the image file. The Drawings table in Vantage would have to
> be mass updated also.
>
> If anyone has written a program to replace/delete a partnum, I would
> also like to hear what it took. Is there a simpler approach I'm
> overlooking?
>
> Mark? william? I'm sure you guys have done it.
>
> Lonnie
>
>
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system · August 29, 2001, 2:45pm

Lonnie,

Ok, Ok, I probably deserved that :-) ... So I'm a little passionate about
my dislike for long part #'s ... The last company I worked for had a 22
character part number formatted as xxx-xx-xxxx-x-xx-xxxxx ... the field was
alpha-numeric and all positions including dashes had to be entered. Heck, I
got tired of just trying to get those item numbers to fit on reports ....

As to changing all occurrences of part numbers in Vantage. You are correct,
a custom program will have to be written. Plus changing all blue prints,
folders etc.

My point was that if Paul does the math on the cost of the custom program,
plus the time per item to change the folders, blue prints, etc, plus the
training for this new "Meaningful" part number TIMES the number of items on
file he MAY be able to persuade management that there are better ways to
spend money. The really hard number is trying to compute the cost of a
longer part numbering scheme for the next 10 years. If it takes 1 minute
to enter 50 short numerical numbers vs. 2 minutes for longer alpha-numeric
numbers, what does it cost over 10 years ? X number of parts per day by Y
number of people x 200 days a year x 10 years x Z number of minutes x $
40.00/hr (?) = $$$ Truly, a Chinese water torture.

One company I worked for liked the idea that purchased parts should start
with P- as opposed to manufactured items that started with M- .... a really
spiffy idea until you point out that sometimes manufactured parts end up
being purchased and vice-versa.

If you start out with a reasonably short "Meaningful" item number it's one
thing ... changing in midstream is really expensive.

Paul, try to figure the math if you can. I think it's the only hope you
have of derailing this project. There is a definite cost involved in
switching your item numbering scheme. Where is the cost savings in having
meaningful item numbers ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:50 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

BRAVO,TODD! (standing ovation in progress) You may have just saved
Paul from a nightmare incarnate.

But what if management DOESN'T listen? I've thought before about
what it would take to replace/delete one partnum, let alone all.

If replacing a part name, wouldn't you have to replace all references
to that part in other tables (part, partrev, partaudit, partbin,
partwhse, partdtl, partdim, parttran, other part tables, orderdtl,
orderrel, jobhead, jobasmbl, joboper, jobmtl, shipdtl, invcdtl, and
I'm sure many others)?

The Vantage part replace/delete program only replaces/deletes
references to the part in bill of materials? What about any custom
reports/programs that link from part->jobhead, shipdtl, invcdtl,
parttran, partbin and others, or vice-versa? Is there a partnum
database write trigger that replaces all references to that part? I
doubt it.

And what if drawing filenames change? A Progress program could be
written that lists all part images, allows user to select one, then
user types/enters a new image name, and the program copies and
renames the image file. The Drawings table in Vantage would have to
be mass updated also.

If anyone has written a program to replace/delete a partnum, I would
also like to hear what it took. Is there a simpler approach I'm
overlooking?

Mark? william? I'm sure you guys have done it.

Lonnie

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system · August 29, 2001, 2:46pm

Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?

That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.

I love being part of this e-group.....

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

system · August 29, 2001, 3:02pm

--- In vantage@y..., Todd Anderson <tanderson@j...> wrote:

> Lonnie,
>
> Ok, Ok, I probably deserved that :-) ... So I'm a little

passionate about

> my dislike for long part #'s ...

I certainly did not mean it in any condescending manner. I totally
agree with your position.

Lonnie

system · August 29, 2001, 3:08pm

Paul,

For what it's worth, you could use Mark's rename program to rename the part from the old part to the new part number throughout the system and then add the bad part
number back in as a reference. This is what we do here.On the old part number the description reads See part number xxxxx. I hope this helps. and by the way I have Marks
Programs and they work great, thanks Mark.

Jeff

Paul Siebers wrote:

> Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
> swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye as
> well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
> from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts in
> the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
> the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both the
> old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
> this?
>
> That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
> over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
> management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
> pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.
>
> I love being part of this e-group.....
>
>
> Paul
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
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system · August 29, 2001, 3:13pm

Paul,

Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?

That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.

I love being part of this e-group.....

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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system · August 29, 2001, 3:41pm

OK, I'll give you guys the history here....

We are the US offspring of a Dutch company. The home office has the general
attitude that A) whatever they do they have been doing it 10 years longer
than us and is therfore better, and B), anything that we do in the US is
"evil" and borderline stupid.

We produce exactly the same machines (although the US side is more
innovative and open to new technologies). Currently there is no cooperation
or communication, but mgmt has figured out that we can combine our
purchasing efforts and save a few $$. It is easier when we deal with one
part number used by both companies for the same part. Also, they are
looking at future (global) expansion, and they want to create one cookie
cutter way of setting up shop easily in a (probably) low wage country. This
meant for us that we are now forced to start buying and producing in metric,
which is not that big of a deal, except when it comes to purchasing
sheetmetal and tubing. Worse, it also means that we have to adopt decades
old standards and procedures from the home office, since they are not
willing to use ours. Here comes the real kicker; when we proposed that
they start using Vantage instead of their old DOS based '80's MRP (which can
not produce a single usable or customizable report, and for which no support
is available), it was like we proposed to overthrow the Dutch government. I
had envisioned Vantage running independently at both companies, but each
with Citrix access to the other, and some other goodies to boot. Right. Of
course, they are running Novell 4 as their network OS, and, over their dead
bodies, will allow anything as evil as a Microsoft product ever to enter
their building.
In short, US mgmt came back from the home office with their tails between
their legs, and I am at the end of the receiving line.....

And now you know the rest of the story.....

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 14:46
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Paul,

Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?

That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.

I love being part of this e-group.....

Paul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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system · August 29, 2001, 3:52pm

Ok Paul,

Now I really feel sorry for you !!!

You are correct ... You are not going to win this battle.

So, when in Calcutta ... I'd buy Mark's program and mass change all
occurrences. This way all of your existing history will float over to the
new item number.

How many parts do you have to change ? Will the Dutch at least provide the
pizza and beer for the party ?

Todd Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

OK, I'll give you guys the history here....

We are the US offspring of a Dutch company. The home office has the general
attitude that A) whatever they do they have been doing it 10 years longer
than us and is therfore better, and B), anything that we do in the US is
"evil" and borderline stupid.

We produce exactly the same machines (although the US side is more
innovative and open to new technologies). Currently there is no cooperation
or communication, but mgmt has figured out that we can combine our
purchasing efforts and save a few $$. It is easier when we deal with one
part number used by both companies for the same part. Also, they are
looking at future (global) expansion, and they want to create one cookie
cutter way of setting up shop easily in a (probably) low wage country. This
meant for us that we are now forced to start buying and producing in metric,
which is not that big of a deal, except when it comes to purchasing
sheetmetal and tubing. Worse, it also means that we have to adopt decades
old standards and procedures from the home office, since they are not
willing to use ours. Here comes the real kicker; when we proposed that
they start using Vantage instead of their old DOS based '80's MRP (which can
not produce a single usable or customizable report, and for which no support
is available), it was like we proposed to overthrow the Dutch government. I
had envisioned Vantage running independently at both companies, but each
with Citrix access to the other, and some other goodies to boot. Right. Of
course, they are running Novell 4 as their network OS, and, over their dead
bodies, will allow anything as evil as a Microsoft product ever to enter
their building.
In short, US mgmt came back from the home office with their tails between
their legs, and I am at the end of the receiving line.....

And now you know the rest of the story.....

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 14:46
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Paul,

Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?

That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.

I love being part of this e-group.....

Paul

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system · August 29, 2001, 4:11pm

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system · August 29, 2001, 5:31pm

Here's another interesting issue related to part images and mass
changes. This applies to anyone who wants to copy their part images
to a new location.

Somehow, sometime, our Drawings table filename field was truncated
from long filename to DOS 8.3, but the physical file retained the
long filename. Since these are 10 - 20 characters, they were
replaced with xxxxxx~1, ~2, ~3, etc., in order of their initial
creation date. I didn't realize this (probably would have thought
nothing of it), and copied the drawings files to another server, then
ran a program to update the Drawings table filename field with the
new mapped drive.

I received a flurry of calls from engineering and production control
stating the wrong image was displayed.

After much hair-pulling, I found that these were created on the new
server in a DIFFERENT order than originals. Therefore, in the
Drawings table, the ~1 Drawings field would point to say the actual
~2 file, ~3 to ~1, etc. Confusing? Been there.

I finally had a moment of lucidity and ran a 'dir' on the old server,
capturing the OLD long file name and OLD truncated name to a text
file. I cleaned the file and imported into a program which found the
OLD truncated filename in the drawings table and replaced with the
long filename.

I still don't know how they were truncated in Drawings to begin with -
any ideas?. I checked an older version of the DB, before my program
ran, and yes they were truncated. Is anyone else's Drawings.filename
truncated?

Moral of the story: it happens. Learn Progress so you can fix it.

Lonnie

system · August 30, 2001, 8:37am

Lonnie,

This horror story has me a little bit worried. Fortunately we do not use
the Drawings table, however, a quick check of the six entries we do have in
there shows me that my drawing file names are truncated as well. I wonder
how this got truncated?
Anyway, I did print out the table, and I will use it in my final futile
arguments....

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 17:22
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Here's another interesting issue related to part images and mass
changes. This applies to anyone who wants to copy their part images
to a new location.

Somehow, sometime, our Drawings table filename field was truncated
from long filename to DOS 8.3, but the physical file retained the
long filename. Since these are 10 - 20 characters, they were
replaced with xxxxxx~1, ~2, ~3, etc., in order of their initial
creation date. I didn't realize this (probably would have thought
nothing of it), and copied the drawings files to another server, then
ran a program to update the Drawings table filename field with the
new mapped drive.

I received a flurry of calls from engineering and production control
stating the wrong image was displayed.

After much hair-pulling, I found that these were created on the new
server in a DIFFERENT order than originals. Therefore, in the
Drawings table, the ~1 Drawings field would point to say the actual
~2 file, ~3 to ~1, etc. Confusing? Been there.

I finally had a moment of lucidity and ran a 'dir' on the old server,
capturing the OLD long file name and OLD truncated name to a text
file. I cleaned the file and imported into a program which found the
OLD truncated filename in the drawings table and replaced with the
long filename.

I still don't know how they were truncated in Drawings to begin with -
any ideas?. I checked an older version of the DB, before my program
ran, and yes they were truncated. Is anyone else's Drawings.filename
truncated?

Moral of the story: it happens. Learn Progress so you can fix it.

Lonnie

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system · August 30, 2001, 6:23pm

Even if you could update all references to the part number, what would
happen is that one or more parts would not get updated correctly. They
would lurk on the system, hiding, waiting to cause trouble. Then from time
to time you would have strange glitches in BOMs, reports, who knows what.
Possible transactions that would not get posted to the correct accounts
because part numbers belong to classes, which hold the GL account numbers
that accounting lives by. No one would notice the problem at first but then
it would really mess something up and someone, or a group of some ones would
have to hunt the problem down and correct it. Of course, by this time
fixing the problem would cause it's own set of random unexplainable
problems. This could actually cause permanent job security for someone.
With any luck at all they could keep resolving the problem from the rubber
room they are living in by now, but the adventure would sure be fun.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:50 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

BRAVO,TODD! (standing ovation in progress) You may have just saved
Paul from a nightmare incarnate.

But what if management DOESN'T listen? I've thought before about
what it would take to replace/delete one partnum, let alone all.

If replacing a part name, wouldn't you have to replace all references
to that part in other tables (part, partrev, partaudit, partbin,
partwhse, partdtl, partdim, parttran, other part tables, orderdtl,
orderrel, jobhead, jobasmbl, joboper, jobmtl, shipdtl, invcdtl, and
I'm sure many others)?

The Vantage part replace/delete program only replaces/deletes
references to the part in bill of materials? What about any custom
reports/programs that link from part->jobhead, shipdtl, invcdtl,
parttran, partbin and others, or vice-versa? Is there a partnum
database write trigger that replaces all references to that part? I
doubt it.

And what if drawing filenames change? A Progress program could be
written that lists all part images, allows user to select one, then
user types/enters a new image name, and the program copies and
renames the image file. The Drawings table in Vantage would have to
be mass updated also.

If anyone has written a program to replace/delete a partnum, I would
also like to hear what it took. Is there a simpler approach I'm
overlooking?

Mark? william? I'm sure you guys have done it.

Lonnie

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system · August 30, 2001, 6:30pm

Not to put to fine a point on this problem, but you have a description field
that contains meaningful information about the part. You can search on this
field. You can show the part numbers is description order. It is really
important to look at what is being done within the system. There are
fields, such as the description, that are designed to give the type of
information that you are trying to cram into the part number. There is a
distinction between manufactured and purchased parts in the system itself.
Use the fields for what they were designed for and quit making a project out
of nothing. (Not you, but management.) Suggest that possibly this manager
does not have enough to occupy his time and should take up golf.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 01:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Lonnie,

Ok, Ok, I probably deserved that :-) ... So I'm a little passionate about
my dislike for long part #'s ... The last company I worked for had a 22
character part number formatted as xxx-xx-xxxx-x-xx-xxxxx ... the field
was
alpha-numeric and all positions including dashes had to be entered. Heck,
I
got tired of just trying to get those item numbers to fit on reports ....

As to changing all occurrences of part numbers in Vantage. You are
correct,
a custom program will have to be written. Plus changing all blue prints,
folders etc.

My point was that if Paul does the math on the cost of the custom program,
plus the time per item to change the folders, blue prints, etc, plus the
training for this new "Meaningful" part number TIMES the number of items
on
file he MAY be able to persuade management that there are better ways to
spend money. The really hard number is trying to compute the cost of a
longer part numbering scheme for the next 10 years. If it takes 1 minute
to enter 50 short numerical numbers vs. 2 minutes for longer alpha-numeric
numbers, what does it cost over 10 years ? X number of parts per day by
Y
number of people x 200 days a year x 10 years x Z number of minutes x $
40.00/hr (?) = $$$ Truly, a Chinese water torture.

One company I worked for liked the idea that purchased parts should start
with P- as opposed to manufactured items that started with M- .... a
really
spiffy idea until you point out that sometimes manufactured parts end up
being purchased and vice-versa.

If you start out with a reasonably short "Meaningful" item number it's one
thing ... changing in midstream is really expensive.

Paul, try to figure the math if you can. I think it's the only hope you
have of derailing this project. There is a definite cost involved in
switching your item numbering scheme. Where is the cost savings in having
meaningful item numbers ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Drew [mailto:lonniedrew@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:50 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

BRAVO,TODD! (standing ovation in progress) You may have just saved
Paul from a nightmare incarnate.

But what if management DOESN'T listen? I've thought before about
what it would take to replace/delete one partnum, let alone all.

If replacing a part name, wouldn't you have to replace all references
to that part in other tables (part, partrev, partaudit, partbin,
partwhse, partdtl, partdim, parttran, other part tables, orderdtl,
orderrel, jobhead, jobasmbl, joboper, jobmtl, shipdtl, invcdtl, and
I'm sure many others)?

The Vantage part replace/delete program only replaces/deletes
references to the part in bill of materials? What about any custom
reports/programs that link from part->jobhead, shipdtl, invcdtl,
parttran, partbin and others, or vice-versa? Is there a partnum
database write trigger that replaces all references to that part? I
doubt it.

And what if drawing filenames change? A Progress program could be
written that lists all part images, allows user to select one, then
user types/enters a new image name, and the program copies and
renames the image file. The Drawings table in Vantage would have to
be mass updated also.

If anyone has written a program to replace/delete a partnum, I would
also like to hear what it took. Is there a simpler approach I'm
overlooking?

Mark? william? I'm sure you guys have done it.

Lonnie

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system · August 30, 2001, 6:43pm

Have you considered running away and joining the circus. If you are going
to have to deal with monkeys at least you would get to travel.

Cameron A. Janish
Misha1
866-464-7421
cameron@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 02:39 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

OK, I'll give you guys the history here....

We are the US offspring of a Dutch company. The home office has the
general
attitude that A) whatever they do they have been doing it 10 years longer
than us and is therfore better, and B), anything that we do in the US is
"evil" and borderline stupid.

We produce exactly the same machines (although the US side is more
innovative and open to new technologies). Currently there is no
cooperation
or communication, but mgmt has figured out that we can combine our
purchasing efforts and save a few $$. It is easier when we deal with one
part number used by both companies for the same part. Also, they are
looking at future (global) expansion, and they want to create one cookie
cutter way of setting up shop easily in a (probably) low wage country.
This
meant for us that we are now forced to start buying and producing in
metric,
which is not that big of a deal, except when it comes to purchasing
sheetmetal and tubing. Worse, it also means that we have to adopt decades
old standards and procedures from the home office, since they are not
willing to use ours. Here comes the real kicker; when we proposed that
they start using Vantage instead of their old DOS based '80's MRP (which
can
not produce a single usable or customizable report, and for which no
support
is available), it was like we proposed to overthrow the Dutch government.
I
had envisioned Vantage running independently at both companies, but each
with Citrix access to the other, and some other goodies to boot. Right.
Of
course, they are running Novell 4 as their network OS, and, over their
dead
bodies, will allow anything as evil as a Microsoft product ever to enter
their building.
In short, US mgmt came back from the home office with their tails between
their legs, and I am at the end of the receiving line.....

And now you know the rest of the story.....

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:tanderson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 14:46
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Paul,

Just out of curiosity ... What benefit does your management team see in
doing this ?

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Siebers [mailto:paul.siebers@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:41 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Part Number advise

Continue the standing ovation.... however, unfortunately mgmt can't be
swayed. Lonnie's scenario has kept me from getting a few night's shuteye
as
well, and I think my approach will be as follows; I am going to stay away
from replacing partnumbers by simply adding the new numbers as new parts
in
the part master. Of course I will have to adjust every single BOM to use
the new part numbers only. As an add on, I will add a reference to both
the
old and new description/search field. Does anybody see any problems with
this?

That leaves me with the custom programming and reporting that we have done
over the years. This is another nightmare which I can't seem to stress
management enough. Their attitude right now is "let's bite the bullet and
pay for it". Fine with me, but it is still a headache.

I love being part of this e-group.....

Paul

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