Thanks everyone for the continued conversations on this thread. It's been very helpful.
Ken
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Bucek
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
I agree, if that's the normal behavior for a given part, then do just that..
Rob Bucek
Production Control Manager
PH: (715) 284-5376 ext 311
Mobile: (715)896-0590
FAX: (715)284-4084
[Description: cid:1.234354861@...<mailto:1.234354861%40web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>]<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
(Click the logo to view our site)<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of b_ordway
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
So much that we ended up changing most of the component parts to stock.
It fixed a lot of cost issues.
In some orders, stock parts also helped reduce the overall number of POs & jobs required. But it loses the links between source and demand.
Kind of a pain to track things down sometimes now.
Ken
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Bucek
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:19 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
I agree, if that's the normal behavior for a given part, then do just that..
Rob Bucek
Production Control Manager
PH: (715) 284-5376 ext 311
Mobile: (715)896-0590
FAX: (715)284-4084
[Description: cid:1.234354861@...<mailto:1.234354861%40web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>]<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
(Click the logo to view our site)<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of b_ordway
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:06 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>> non-stock, and average costed and...This was biting a lot at one plant.
>> never having received
>> into inventory
>> no costs will have been calculated.
>> This can bite you if you occasionally
So much that we ended up changing most of the component parts to stock.
It fixed a lot of cost issues.
In some orders, stock parts also helped reduce the overall number of POs & jobs required. But it loses the links between source and demand.
Kind of a pain to track things down sometimes now.
--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Bucek <rbucek@...<mailto:rbucek@...>> wrote:
>
> IMHO, if you are a plant that normally ships from the job and those parts sold are set as non-stock it is somewhat counter intuitive to the design intent with regards to cost flow to have those parts set as standard cost if it is your desire to manage margins from actual costs to sale price. I'm not saying there is only one way to manage margins from this approach, only that for us it has been a much more sane process when we didn't have to fight design intent. If you have your parts set as non-stock, ship from the job; best practice in my opinion should be to complete and close those jobs after shipment (you should still do a daily complete and close process to keep up with this) you'll find you have far less cost hitting your variance accounts, your margins as shipped will be far more accurate, and analyzing REC (realization of estimated cost - what did you leave on the table; the difference between price and cost, low REC being more desirable obviously) becomes an easy task of hitting job costs and tying them to the sales orders they were linked to. In this environment if you were to look at your part costs from an inventory standpoint they would normally be zero, because being non-stock, and average costed and under normal circumstances never having received them into inventory no costs will have been calculated. This can bite you if you occasionally for some reason accept those parts into stock and subsequently ship them, so you have to have some process in place to monitor that as well.. The only thing that prevents costs from being applied to the job after shipment is closing the job. If someone were to apply labor or issue material that may have been missed before shipment, after the part ships, those costs can be seen on the invoice detail table under the JCLbrUnitCost, JCBurUnitCost, etc.. These fields simply house all job costs at the time of job close, which may differ from costs rolled up at time of shipment which is housed in the LbrUnitCost, BurUnitCost etc.. So Vantage does do a good job in my opinion of catching up so to speak, and it does mitigate timing issues somewhat by directing those 'late coming costs' to the correct COS accounts.
>
> Rob Bucek
> Production Control Manager
> PH: (715) 284-5376 ext 311
> Mobile: (715)896-0590
> FAX: (715)284-4084
> [Description: cid:1.234354861@...]<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
> (Click the logo to view our site)<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:15 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
> If you ship from a job and close it before you invoice, the system won't let you invoice.
>
> I agree with everything else you said. You can complete a job and then if you add costs to the job than those costs hit a variance account because the job is complete. This is for average costing which I found out is not Ken's issue since they are Standard cost.
>
> HTH,
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> manasa@...<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa@...<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com<mailto:manasa@...%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa@...%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>>>
> 630.806.2000 x1515
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gary Parfrey
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 5:15 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
> Manasa
>
> Just to ensure correct information being posted to the user group. At what point can you not close a job before invoicing?
>
> Although the invoice line stores cost information, it is the shipment and its resulting transaction that stores cost information
> The Invoice only deals with cost if you have an AR clearing account, but his has nothing to do with the job.
>
> Unless you have a configuration or process that differs, there is nothing to my knowledge in Epicor that stops you from closing a job post shipment and then invoicing it afterwards. The invoicing revenue will either catch up with the shipment transaction that has posted to COS, or will pull the cost from the AR clearing account to COS at point of invoice posting.
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Parfrey | Managing Director
>
> Mobile: +44 7765 234 934
> DDI: +44 121 314 1172
> Main: +44 121 314 1170
>
> Dot Net IT Limited, One St Kenelm Court, Steel Park Road, Halesowen, B62 8HD, United Kingdom.
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action based on this communication. If you have received this communication in error please contact GaryP@...<mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP@...<mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk<mailto:GaryP@...%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP@...%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk>>> and delete this communication and any copies of it. Any views or opinions presented are soley of those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Dot Net IT Limited.
>
> Dot Net IT Limited, Reg No 4412519
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Manasa Reddy
> Sent: 09 April 2012 13:13
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
> If you ship off the job, then the job CANNOT be closed before you invoice.
>
> M. Manasa Reddy
> manasa@...<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa@...<mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com><mailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com<mailto:manasa@...%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa@...%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com%3e%3cmailto:manasa%40weldcoa.com>>>
> 630.806.2000 x1515
>
> Ex scientia, vera
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Gary Parfrey
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 12:37 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
> Ken
>
> Make sure your non stock manufactured items are quantity bearing on your part master.
> Make sure you check the COS/Mfg variance checkbox when running capture COS WIP
> Make sure you jobs are not closed before you have shipped the goods as you said, but jobs can be but do not have to be closed before invoicing
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Parfrey | Managing Director
>
> Mobile: +44 7765 234 934
> DDI: +44 121 314 1172
> Main: +44 121 314 1170
>
> Dot Net IT Limited, One St Kenelm Court, Steel Park Road, Halesowen, B62 8HD, United Kingdom.
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or take any action based on this communication. If you have received this communication in error please contact GaryP@...<mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP@...<mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk><mailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk<mailto:GaryP@...%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP@...%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk%3e%3cmailto:GaryP%40dotnetit.co.uk>>> and delete this communication and any copies of it. Any views or opinions presented are soley of those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Dot Net IT Limited.
>
> Dot Net IT Limited, Reg No 4412519
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Williams
> Sent: 06 April 2012 00:37
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
> Rob & Virginia - what if you find that no costs are getting captured at the invoice level (and thus the sales GM report shows zero costs)? There's definitely costs to our jobs....but 99% of them are not showing on invoicing, even after capturing WIP.
>
> For years I've been pulling transactional data to make my own reports, but I'd love to just get the system working. Any thoughts on what could cause this activity?
>
> We typically close our jobs out after shipment, is there a requirement that jobs be closed BEFORE invoicing? Please tell me no....
>
> Ken
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Virginia Joseph
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:38 AM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Run Capture WIP - effect on Gross Margin Report
>
> Sorry Rob, that was a typo. I meant invoice tables, not inventory tables. I completely agree with your statements about inventory costing.
>
> I have to say I did some more testing and you were right. The Inventory/WIP Reconciliation report seems to be more than just a report. I ran the sales gross margin report for Friday shipments and all the costs were blank (everything that shipped on Friday was make direct - no part number set-up in Vantage). Then I ran the Inventory/WIP Reconciliation report and then re-ran the sales gross margin report and now the job costs appear in the report. Thanks Rob! I now have a gross margin report we can use daily as long as we run Inventory/WIP recociliation on a daily basis!
>
> Ken: Your interest in the effects of capturing without posting to GL is something that I cannot speak to because I have never run the COS capture process without posting to the GL. The only reason I run the COS capture process is specifically to post the transactions to my GL. If there is anyone that rus the COS capture on a regular basis without posting to the GL, I would like to hear what this accomplishes and how either report or data accuracy benefits.
>
> Virginia Joseph
> Deep Hole Specialists, LLC
> CFO
> 440-708-5239
> 440-991-6714 cell
> vjoseph@...<mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com><mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com><mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com><mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com><mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com><mailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com<mailto:vjoseph@...%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com%3e%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com%3e%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com%3e%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com%3e%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com%3e%3cmailto:vjoseph%40deephole.com>>
>
> --- In vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Bucek <rbucek@<mailto:rbucek@<mailto:rbucek@%3cmailto:rbucek@<mailto:rbucek@%3cmailto:rbucek@%3cmailto:rbucek@%3cmailto:rbucek@>>>> wrote:
> >
> > Im curious about what you mean regarding items shipped from inventory.. you mentioned that the inventory tables don't have job cost information. This isn't my area of expertise, but I like this area so im interested. What tables specifically are you speaking of? For our shop, being average costing for inventory value, average cost of inventory is recalculated every time you receive inventory from a job (I believe, correct me if im wrong on that one, id hate to have that presumption wrong). Are you standard cost for inventory? Fundamentally theres a complete disconnect when shipping from inventory with respects to job costing. If you ship from inventory the cost is your average or standard cost based on the accumulated costs from the job at the time of receipt. Here we control that by placing strict rules on how a job gets receipted to inventory. As I was writing this I had an epiphany...
> >
> > I went to my test environment, picked a job that had all its operations completed, materials issued and had not been shipped. This was a make direct job to a sales order. I shipped said job complete, opened the part in transaction history tracker and noted that for that transaction the columns Amount, Mtl Unit Cost, Lbr Unit Cost, Bur Unit Cost were all zero... doing nothing else, I ran WIP rec against that job, I then simply refreshed the transaction history tracker, and those columns were then populated with costs... so..that was were my perception of something is going on when you run that report..or some damn programmer is able to find a random temp table and is at the very least populating part tran records from this..remember..its our test environment.. hard to think it could be something else.. what are your thoughts...I can send you screen shots offline if you are interested.
> >
> > Rob Bucek
> > Production Control Manager
> > PH: (715) 284-5376 ext 311
> > Mobile: (715)896-0590
> > FAX: (715)284-4084
> > [Description: cid:1.234354861@]<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
> > (Click the logo to view our site)<http://www.dsmfg.com/>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> ________________________________
> Total Control Panel
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