Stick with Vantage or Not

We purchased Vantage 2.70 in 1997, started using it in 1998. We had to have a lot of customization done on it before we could use
it. Every time DCD or Dataworks or Epicor came up with a new version of Vantage we were excited about it. We were thinking that the
bugs that we reported in a previous version would have been fixed, but unfortunately in many cases not only the bugs were not fixed
but new ones were introduced. Since we are always one version behind of the current one there are no current patches available for
us. Right now we are on 4.0 and going to upgrade to 5.1 soon. We had to ask custom programming to take new features introduced in
5.1 out to make it just like it was in 4.0 before we can use it.
In my opinion Epicor is doing a great job of introducing new modules and new features but it's doing a terrible job of assuring the
quality and functionality of them. At this point we are thinking dumping Vantage but not right away, may be not to renew the service
contract for a couple of years and purchase a new software with the savings unless we see some improvements in quality.

Mike Tonoyan / MIS Manager
All American Products Co.
1135 Aviation Place
San Fernando, CA 91340
USA
Tel.: 818-361-0059 Ext.: 246
Fax 818-898-2236
E-mail: miket@...
Web: www.allamericanproducts.com



----- Original Message -----
From: <rreilly@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


> We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
> never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
> cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
> custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
> having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
> also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
> are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
> about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
> stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
> would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
> vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
> to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Rhonda
>
We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda
Have you fully researched what the new versions of vantage have to offer?
You said you are still on 3.0, and many of the issues you mention have at
least been addressed in newer versions... i.e. enhancements to product
configurator for your BOM based on customer specs, field service module for
your service business... we don't use either of these, but from the sales
literature, it sounds like they might fit your needs... If I were you,
before switching off vantage I would contact my sales rep to fully show me
all the new capabilities based on my requirements...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rhonda,
Our operation is very similar to yours. We are currently on 5.0 and
will be on 5.1 very soon. Before we purchased Vantage in 1999, we purchased
a program that asked approximately 1,000 questions about the way we
conducted our business and then gave us a list of software vendors that best
suit our business. Vantage was at the top of the list. If I had to do it
all over again, I would choose Vantage.

Randall Lunsford
Excel Machinery, Ltd.
e-mail: rlunsf@...
Phone: (806) 335-4565 ext. 531
Fax: (806) 335-9017

-----Original Message-----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...>
[mailto:rreilly@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not

We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Make a list of your grievances with vantage. Do a standalone test upgrade
to Vantage 5.2. For each item on the list, see if it is remedied in the
latest version. Send a list of the remaining items to epicor, and allow
epicor to address them. They will likely recommend some of their other
products that may help fill in the gap on the service side of things. They
may be able to make suggestions as to how to work around the product's
current shortcomings, and they'd be better informed as to how their product
needs to improve.

We are running version 3 (upgrading to 5.2 ASAP), and we have had to
implement various workarounds to accomodate some of the shortcomings in the
current product. Vantage does not always fit us like a glove, but it does
do it's job better than the competition I've seen, and it's a whole lot
cheaper to pay Epicor then it would be to create our own system from
scratch.

Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...

-----Original Message-----
From: sarah.vareschi@... [mailto:sarah.vareschi@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:18 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


Have you fully researched what the new versions of vantage have to offer?
You said you are still on 3.0, and many of the issues you mention have at
least been addressed in newer versions... i.e. enhancements to product
configurator for your BOM based on customer specs, field service module for
your service business... we don't use either of these, but from the sales
literature, it sounds like they might fit your needs... If I were you,
before switching off vantage I would contact my sales rep to fully show me
all the new capabilities based on my requirements...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
If you are seriously considering dumping Vantage then ASAP contact your Customer Account Manager (CAM) at Epicor and lay it all out for them. I would be really surprised if they could not get arrange a visit with one of the implementation or sales consultants in order to keep your future business. They really ought to be able to walk through your issues and compare them to what the system now offers as well as what might be in 6.0 (or Sonoma). There are many new modules and features like Product Configurator which might be what you are looking for. But because of your familiarity with Vantage and the basic processes (a considerable investment) it could be well worth it to really consider sticking with it as the first point of investigation. Just my couple cents on it.
-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...> [mailto:rreilly@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We also make semi-custom machinery. The main reason we picked Vantage
was for it's flexibility....you best get your version current

Dan Tisone
IS / IT Consultant
dan.tisone@...
(949) 440-3685 x148
Cel (714) 227-4173




-----Original Message-----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...>
[mailto:rreilly@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 2:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although
it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture
offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but
have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we
are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We
are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all.
We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something

about that. My question to the group if you had the choice
would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded
version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of

vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can
recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda


Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note:
You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If we had it to do over again, we would go with Navision or Great Plains. I
don't know what your needs are and it may be better to try to make Vantage
work then to make a switch. Looking at customization, development, and
product quality I believe those two products are much better then Vantage.
They are also more pricey. It has made me ill reading about all the
problems everyone has had with 5.2 and patches lately.
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...>
[mailto:rreilly@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I would stay with Vantage. We researched many of the other vendors. Vantage
was the best by far. Yes they have some problems but unless you get a
program custom written for your company nothing will quite fit.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rreilly@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


> We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
> never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
> cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
> custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
> having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
> also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
> are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
> about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
> stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
> would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
> vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
> to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Rhonda
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Our shop does about 10% repetitive work and 90% is custom work (pipe fabrication for everything from power piping and chemical industries to the national world war 2 monument).
We simply pulled back from tracking every single labor operation and use it to track labor departments (welding, bending, etc.)
When we first went live in '99 we looked at several packages including, as mentioned previously, Great Plains and found it severly wanting for our application.
----- Original Message -----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vantage indeed, in it's current state, does not provide quite as much in the
realms of out-of-the-box integration options that other SQL-based products
do. However, Sonoma's progress/.NET architecture will be much more open
than the current one. Plus it will be much easier to run over a WAN.

Since I've purchased the 9.1D open client and appserver, developing custom
applications that integrate with the progress database has been a breeze.
Right now, I can write a custom 4GL query, and access the results
simultaneously through VB6 and VB .NET applications.

With Sonoma, hopefully I'll be able to tle my own custom .NET front ends
right into Vantage Business logic, and we'll likely be able to start on some
data-entry automation projects.

We used to use Great Plains, and switched over to vantage because it worked
best for us.
However, there has been instances where the Controller has handed me a Great
Plains accounting report and told me to write an equivalent for Vantage.

Thaddeus Jacobs
IT Developer
Kinematic Automation, Inc.
mailto:tjacobs@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard, Jeremy [mailto:jleonard@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:57 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


If we had it to do over again, we would go with Navision or Great Plains. I
don't know what your needs are and it may be better to try to make Vantage
work then to make a switch. Looking at customization, development, and
product quality I believe those two products are much better then Vantage.
They are also more pricey. It has made me ill reading about all the
problems everyone has had with 5.2 and patches lately.
Jeremy Leonard
IT Manager
K-T Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: rhondareilly <rreilly@...>
[mailto:rreilly@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Stick with Vantage or Not


We are a company that has been on Vantaqe for 4 years although it
never quite fit our mode of doing things. We manufacture offshore
cranes. Each crane we build it based on one of our models but have
custom modifications to it per the customers sales order and we are
having problems with the flexiblity of the bill of Material. We are
also a large service shop which Vantage doesn't handle at all. We
are still on version 3.0 and are in the position to do something
about that. My question to the group if you had the choice would you
stick with Vantage, upgrade and hope that the new upgraded version
would take care of some of these things or would you bail out of
vantage altogether. I have that choice right now. I can recommend
to stay with Vantage or look for a new system.


Thanks,
Rhonda



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/