Upgrading from 10.0.700.4 to 10.2.6.x and being told we need a new server or to go to Azure platform. Is this true?

Greetings all,

Our company is currently using Epicor 10.0.700.4 and our vendor is telling us that we should upgrade to 10.2.6.x to solve some issues we are having. Our current server has dual Xeon E5 Processors, 64GB RAM, RAID 1 for OS and RAID 10 for Database, all arrays are on 15K SAS drives. We have 15 users in the database, not all active at the same time, and some data collect terminals.

In order to achieve this upgrade we’re being told that a new server is required using SSDs for drive arrays or move to the Azure platform. Looking at our current servers performance management and drive utilization it’s underutilized. I’d like to upgrade to 10.2.6.x on our current server. Are these requirements being stated best case scenario? Our server is really only 3 years old and I’d hate to have to replace it already.

I don’t think the information you’ve given can lead to a definitive answer. We’ve just changed servers and it’s made a big difference, but I’d be suspicious of anyone telling you to do so without more details of exactly what issues you’re having.

If the issues aren’t performance ones then my instinct would be that you should upgrade Epicor on the same server before doing anything else. But I’d want to dig into the reasons they’ve given too. What do they say a new server would fix that the upgrade doesn’t?

2 Likes

Tony - What issues is your vendor trying to fix? How do your specs compare against the recommendations in the Epicor Hardware Sizing Guide? And what kind of results do you get when you run the Performance Diagnostics Tool (PDT)?

2 Likes

In the Hardware Sizing Guide for Epicor there is an Appendix that talks about how to test your SAN. This would assist in determining if you will meet Epicor’s disk requirements.
As other’s have rightly stated above; you need more information. Moving to the cloud brings with it performance nuances such as network latency between your location and Azure.

2 Likes

There’s no performance issue really. They’re just saying in order to run the new version they need to replace the server or move to the Azure platform (which they’re really pushing). Supposedly the new version fixes “issues” in version 10.0.700.4.

In which case at the very least I’d be starting from a position of skepticism …

Upgrading, unless there is literally nothing you wish were better about your Epicor installation, is probably a very good thing. The new versions have a lot of good stuff. A new server, at the price needed to meet Epicor’s standards? Well, maybe, but for me whoever is advising you will need to give a whole lot more detailed justification first.

Mind you, there can be a significant difference between “no performance issue” and “no performance issue really”. That’s your judgement to make.

Went from E9.702A to E10.2.300.9 without changing Hardware, no problem - performed better than Progress.

You can run Epicor on your laptop!! No Need for Azure unless your solving something… I run a full Server with 10 instances for testing no problem on a Lenovo ThinkServer w/ 32GB of RAM and 1 CPU and 7200rpm Hard Drives.

No you don’t have to go to Azure to upgrade. You don’t even need new hardware if your’s is good. The only thing you need is to upgrade your Windows to Windows 2012 or Windows 2016 and use SQL Server 2014 or greater.

Someone is messing with you or ill informed, redirect them here. We even have Engineers from Epicor here.

PS: We ran Epicor 10.1.400 with 10K SAS and 150 Users, we didnt even have SSDs until recently when our MRP for 14 MULTI-COMPANY Processes started to bottleneck!

3 Likes

:thinking: Um, no. This depends on your goals as a company. Moving to Azure does get you away from the “This server is just three years old” situation but if this server can handle it, I don’t see why the move to the cloud.

I agree with Daryl. We moved from 10.0.700.4 to 10.2.100 and it is better to stay current for many reasons but there are some nice features (like REST) that you’re missing.

Mark W.

Keep in mind, to move to Azure you don’t need to do this through Epicor. They are moving away from dedicated hosting (they call it EMS or Epicor Managed Services). Their other option basically has you renting the software you already own and with some significant limitations in terms of customization and data access as well as inability to use non-epicor sold 3rd party solutions.

There other Azure based providers (I can’t officially plug ourselves due to e10help rules cough cough) that can host your existing license, at whatever version you want (although I too recommend you stay current) so that you have the same level of control you have today but without the need for regular hardware upgrades and IT related time and cost (disaster recovery, backup, anti-virus, patching, SQL maintenance , firewall monitoring etc)

We’re currently on Server 2012 R2 running SQL 2012. This is encouraging to hear. At close to a perpetual $1800/month fee for the Azure platform, it’s really not an option at this time. Quite honestly, getting a new server is going to be a hard sell as well.

We have our Epicor production environment deployed to Azure. We use a local MSP to manage our Azure service, I’d have to dig into what our monthly costs are. I can say you won’t survive up there without the premium storage, so it ups the cost a bit. Consider your DB size and projected growth over time.

2 Likes

What’s your site-to-site VPN throughput? We have 25mbps AT&T fiber at our main site. Would this be sufficient to support the Azure platform? Our 2 remote sites are only on standard Comcast Business Internet connections.

The more I hear, the more I want to ask your advisers what benefit THEY get from you using Azure. It may well be a good thing for you, but surely you’re in a better position to judge that than they are, because it’s primarily a business strategy decision rather than something you have to do for system reasons.

3 Likes

Remember when comparing that the Monthly fee includes:

  • software
  • hardware
  • support
  • and upgrades are done for you (no professional services required - unlike Single Tenant)

You pay me just 500$ a / mo ill do the upgrades for you whenever you need them done :P. On a serious note at a location we spent like 12,000$ on Servers and for 7yrs they have been serving us rock solid, now thats a ROI baby! Not like Hard Drives crash weekly or monthly… We had 0 failures luckily ever! DELL T710s

Some Cisco Switches… 2 ISPs 1 T1 and Comcast with WatchGuard Failover Setup… Business never had 1 outage. I cant justify 1800$/mo when I always can just pay 1x and be set for 5-10yrs.

Epicor upgrades are becoming simpler and simpler… My 7yr old did one in our Lab… Major Upgrades / Code Uplifts are another story.


At a second location we use Cisco Blades (vSphere, VMWare) a more costlier Setup… but Again… You buy it and it runs for 5-10yrs. If you have it setup right, stuff just runs, if you mess with it every day of course your going to mess things up… But even that was overkill “We need to scale”… Umm last time I checked companies don’t add 500 employees overnight. Especially not Mfg Plants. Probably even have a switch thats 10-15yrs old, still powering everything :slight_smile:

That one time something goes down… Find your nearest Local Managed Services provider, they’ll fix it and you dont have to see them for another 5yrs. (hopefully). Plenty of them do project work, one-time gigs, your hardware has support call Dell call HP.

NOW If I have 3000 employees and I need better support / hardware, totally diff story under 200 I wouldnt bother with anything complex. Its not that hard, setup Windows Backups to a Drobo device, you got some Backups nightly, SQL Maintenance Plans use the Wizard get something in, tada.

If you have a smaller setup YOU CAN Keep it Simple and use out of the box Windows tools some SpiceWorks notifications to notify you when stuff is low, overall - unless your doing 1 million transactions a day and don’t have VPN Tunnels and Remote Sites all over the world, you can keep it simple and in-house. Unless I am misinformed, but I never had any issue. Heck the employer I left never even replaced me, still running fine for 2yrs and 2mo now.

3 Likes

“There are two kinds of hard drives. Those that have failed, and those that will fail.”

2 Likes

Backups, Proper Raid, Some Alerts, who cares let them fail :slight_smile: I can bring a failed server up within 15-30min if its configed right :slight_smile: Even a corrupt windows, insert CD - pick UNC Path where your Differential Backups are and it detects Restore Points etc…

Hourly Backups on your SQL with Full Backup every 6hrs. Also keep Spare HD and Some Spare parts on-hand, like additional power-supplies.

Again im talking about the < 100 user setup.

When you have an issue, call me ill fix it, pay me 100$ we go our seperate ways :slight_smile:

1 Like

Quick side question on the topic of Cloud based…

How are Test, Training and Demo Environments handled? We copy our Live DB to the Test App about once every month or two.

And what about things that require the Epicor Admin Console? Like regenerating the data model, or redeploying an App or its extensions.

Pilot is used to test upgrades. They copy it over before an upgrade or on-demand. If you pay for embedded education, you get one of those as well. Any other instances can be spun up on a month-to-month basis for a nominal fee. I should learn how much nominal means in dollars some day. We haven’t had the need in two years but if we were doing a long dev project, I might want one.

Any idea if/when they can import just data from production to a dev instance? Stale data can be hard to develop around sometimes. Can they do this in cloud?

1 Like