Vantage 8 System Requirements

Yahoo Archive
21
?
Actually, I had heard something similar at Perspectives last year that Terminal Server wasn't recommended for 8. Something about .Net and shared memory allocations on a Terminal Server. Or something...there was a technical reason given but don't remember exactly. I've heard differing opinions from both sides of the fence. We are a long time Citrix user so I'm curious to see how this plays out.

If the promise of "Smart Clients" proves out, perhaps I can save on Citrix and Terminal services and their associated costs. Well, I guess not save since I'll need to upgrade hardware. Let's just say shift costs to a different vendor. The more I think about it I would rather contribute to Dell's bottom line than Citrix and Microsoft's anyway! ;-)




________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Chris Robisch
Sent: Wed 8/24/2005 8:37 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


Memory leaks from what? Who said this?

Split 35 users among 2-4 TS's with appropriate memory/cpu's in each and
leave the clients alone. Have the TS's direct-connected to Vantage Server
with 3-5 nics in it, 2 in the TS's.

Or use the blade/pc-rack idea suggested earlier.

V8 Live Clients using Citrix/TS: how many TS's/users/memory is working for
you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "jameswi2000" <jameswi2000@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:37 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


We are implementing Vantage 8. Currently we have 35 workstations,
most of which are Pentium IIIs and are typically limited to between
256-768 MB of RAM. Most Pentium IIIs are limited to 512MB, so most
of our machines are at the bare minimum for Vantage. Of them, 12 are
getting max memory. For the ones at 256MB of RAM, they are getting
replaced; all 7 of them. It really hurts to see machines that can
run most business software like Office get tossed aside.

We were told not to go to TS because of memory leaks. Plus, I can't
even imagine putting enough memory or processing power in a server to
make it handle as many clients as we are running.

Sadly, when we evaluated the product, specs for version 8 were not
out. In an age where you are hearing terms like thin client,
client/server, browser-based, and .net, it should be a crime to have
memory requirements of 1GB! Even a nicely set up machine isn't all
that punchy (P4, 3.0 GHz, 1GB RAM, 100mbit NIC). We run 3D modeling
on workstations with these kind of specs. Running on 512MB is
useable, but not for power users. Through use, it seems to consume
meory and not release it (could be caching, then again maybe not --
haven't had time to chase it down).

And the craziest thing of all, is that one of my associates heard
that in the future the minimum RAM requirement will be 2GB! They are
going to hear from me if that happens.

So, to make a long story short, what do I think of the specs? Insane
with the potential to get more insane. Maybe that is because
Progress is expecting the same requirements on the client as they do
on the server.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Rich Shafer
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:04 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 System Requirements
>
> For those already running/installing Vantage 8.
> What are your opinions on the system requirements 2.4 GHz and 768
MB - 1 GB
> of RAM? Is this much necessary? How are machines with 512 MB RAM
working
> out? Machines with slower processors? We are prepping to make the
jump and
> want some real world opinion.
>
> Regards
> Rich






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
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(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links









Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
22
James,

Just a hunch - the Progress back end probably isn't the issue. The .net
front end from MS is a bit suspect in my mind.

Try Google with the following two searches:

.net performance issues

.net service pack

This may be an issue with getting the most current service packs on
everything MS related and then tuning the .net front end specifically.

Todd Anderson

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jameswi2000
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


We are implementing Vantage 8. Currently we have 35 workstations,
most of which are Pentium IIIs and are typically limited to between
256-768 MB of RAM. Most Pentium IIIs are limited to 512MB, so most
of our machines are at the bare minimum for Vantage. Of them, 12 are
getting max memory. For the ones at 256MB of RAM, they are getting
replaced; all 7 of them. It really hurts to see machines that can
run most business software like Office get tossed aside.

We were told not to go to TS because of memory leaks. Plus, I can't
even imagine putting enough memory or processing power in a server to
make it handle as many clients as we are running.

Sadly, when we evaluated the product, specs for version 8 were not
out. In an age where you are hearing terms like thin client,
client/server, browser-based, and .net, it should be a crime to have
memory requirements of 1GB! Even a nicely set up machine isn't all
that punchy (P4, 3.0 GHz, 1GB RAM, 100mbit NIC). We run 3D modeling
on workstations with these kind of specs. Running on 512MB is
useable, but not for power users. Through use, it seems to consume
meory and not release it (could be caching, then again maybe not --
haven't had time to chase it down).

And the craziest thing of all, is that one of my associates heard
that in the future the minimum RAM requirement will be 2GB! They are
going to hear from me if that happens.

So, to make a long story short, what do I think of the specs? Insane
with the potential to get more insane. Maybe that is because
Progress is expecting the same requirements on the client as they do
on the server.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Rich Shafer
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:04 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 System Requirements
>
> For those already running/installing Vantage 8.
> What are your opinions on the system requirements 2.4 GHz and 768
MB - 1 GB
> of RAM? Is this much necessary? How are machines with 512 MB RAM
working
> out? Machines with slower processors? We are prepping to make the
jump and
> want some real world opinion.
>
> Regards
> Rich





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
23
Dumb question time :)

I just read that you have multiple nics on your vantage server. WHY?

Does it give you more bandwidth??

Frank Zeigafuse
Innovative Office Products
General Manager
Direct Phone: 610-559-6369
Email: fzeigafuse@...

Visit www.one.org to see how the world can be changed one person at a time.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Robisch [mailto:blue.wine@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:38 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


Memory leaks from what? Who said this?

Split 35 users among 2-4 TS's with appropriate memory/cpu's in each and
leave the clients alone. Have the TS's direct-connected to Vantage Server
with 3-5 nics in it, 2 in the TS's.

Or use the blade/pc-rack idea suggested earlier.

V8 Live Clients using Citrix/TS: how many TS's/users/memory is working for
you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "jameswi2000" <jameswi2000@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:37 PM
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


We are implementing Vantage 8. Currently we have 35 workstations, most of
which are Pentium IIIs and are typically limited to between 256-768 MB of
RAM. Most Pentium IIIs are limited to 512MB, so most of our machines are at
the bare minimum for Vantage. Of them, 12 are getting max memory. For the
ones at 256MB of RAM, they are getting replaced; all 7 of them. It really
hurts to see machines that can run most business software like Office get
tossed aside.

We were told not to go to TS because of memory leaks. Plus, I can't even
imagine putting enough memory or processing power in a server to make it
handle as many clients as we are running.

Sadly, when we evaluated the product, specs for version 8 were not out. In
an age where you are hearing terms like thin client, client/server,
browser-based, and .net, it should be a crime to have memory requirements of
1GB! Even a nicely set up machine isn't all that punchy (P4, 3.0 GHz, 1GB
RAM, 100mbit NIC). We run 3D modeling on workstations with these kind of
specs. Running on 512MB is useable, but not for power users. Through use,
it seems to consume meory and not release it (could be caching, then again
maybe not --
haven't had time to chase it down).

And the craziest thing of all, is that one of my associates heard that in
the future the minimum RAM requirement will be 2GB! They are going to hear
from me if that happens.

So, to make a long story short, what do I think of the specs? Insane with
the potential to get more insane. Maybe that is because Progress is
expecting the same requirements on the client as they do on the server.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Rich Shafer
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:04 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 System Requirements
>
> For those already running/installing Vantage 8.
> What are your opinions on the system requirements 2.4 GHz and 768
MB - 1 GB
> of RAM? Is this much necessary? How are machines with 512 MB RAM
working
> out? Machines with slower processors? We are prepping to make the
jump and
> want some real world opinion.
>
> Regards
> Rich






Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links










Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links
24
Admittedly, our culture is a bit different at Electroimpact. Everyone is
empowered to purchase whatever they need to do their job -- there's no
purchasing department. Therefore, we have a dozen employees in Vantage all
day, while 200 others share 10 licenses -- do a PO and get out. So Terminal
Server is a dream -- only have to worry about Vantage on one client machine.

We tie one TS nic to the Vantage Server with a crossover cable at gigabit
speed, bypassing the 100mps network. The other nic attaches to the network.
This is V6 and we only have 2gig Ram in both the Vantage Server and Terminal
Server. With the memory/performance requirements of V8, we'll expand memory
to 8gig (2 cpu's) with Windows Enterprise on TS. If that's not enough, we'll
probably go to a second TS rather than a bloated one. That would spread the
load better at the Vantage Server with 3 nic's, one to each TS and one to
the network for Remote Desktop Connection/upgrades, etc.

Eventually we're going to a gigabit network. We're also exploring Vantage
PLM or SmarTeam as PDM solutions to manage our engineering data with a
Vantage interface to the Engineering module. They want to be in Catia or
Solidworks instead of Vantage to update the BOM. Anyone using a PDM solution
with Vantage? Problems/suggestions?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Zeigafuse" <fzeigafuse@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


> Dumb question time :)
>
> I just read that you have multiple nics on your vantage server. WHY?
>
> Does it give you more bandwidth??
>
> Frank Zeigafuse
> Innovative Office Products
> General Manager
> Direct Phone: 610-559-6369
> Email: fzeigafuse@...
>
> Visit www.one.org to see how the world can be changed one person at a
time.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Robisch [mailto:blue.wine@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:38 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements
>
>
> Memory leaks from what? Who said this?
>
> Split 35 users among 2-4 TS's with appropriate memory/cpu's in each and
> leave the clients alone. Have the TS's direct-connected to Vantage Server
> with 3-5 nics in it, 2 in the TS's.
>
> Or use the blade/pc-rack idea suggested earlier.
>
> V8 Live Clients using Citrix/TS: how many TS's/users/memory is working for
> you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jameswi2000" <jameswi2000@...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:37 PM
> Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements
>
>
> We are implementing Vantage 8. Currently we have 35 workstations, most of
> which are Pentium IIIs and are typically limited to between 256-768 MB of
> RAM. Most Pentium IIIs are limited to 512MB, so most of our machines are
at
> the bare minimum for Vantage. Of them, 12 are getting max memory. For
the
> ones at 256MB of RAM, they are getting replaced; all 7 of them. It really
> hurts to see machines that can run most business software like Office get
> tossed aside.
>
> We were told not to go to TS because of memory leaks. Plus, I can't even
> imagine putting enough memory or processing power in a server to make it
> handle as many clients as we are running.
>
> Sadly, when we evaluated the product, specs for version 8 were not out.
In
> an age where you are hearing terms like thin client, client/server,
> browser-based, and .net, it should be a crime to have memory requirements
of
> 1GB! Even a nicely set up machine isn't all that punchy (P4, 3.0 GHz, 1GB
> RAM, 100mbit NIC). We run 3D modeling on workstations with these kind of
> specs. Running on 512MB is useable, but not for power users. Through
use,
> it seems to consume meory and not release it (could be caching, then again
> maybe not --
> haven't had time to chase it down).
>
> And the craziest thing of all, is that one of my associates heard that in
> the future the minimum RAM requirement will be 2GB! They are going to
hear
> from me if that happens.
>
> So, to make a long story short, what do I think of the specs? Insane with
> the potential to get more insane. Maybe that is because Progress is
> expecting the same requirements on the client as they do on the server.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > Rich Shafer
> > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:04 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 System Requirements
> >
> > For those already running/installing Vantage 8.
> > What are your opinions on the system requirements 2.4 GHz and 768
> MB - 1 GB
> > of RAM? Is this much necessary? How are machines with 512 MB RAM
> working
> > out? Machines with slower processors? We are prepping to make the
> jump and
> > want some real world opinion.
> >
> > Regards
> > Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
25
I felt strongly about TS, but the gentleman Ben, who did our install,
strongly suggested against it. He said the product had memory leaks.
It was version 8.00.708 we were installing. That's all I can tell ypu,
because we never moved past that point.

> Memory leaks from what? Who said this?
26
Could be. Considering Progress Openedge 4GL has much lower
requirements than what Epicor is requiring. Either way, a GB is just
plain crazy.

> Just a hunch - the Progress back end probably isn't the issue.
> The .net front end from MS is a bit suspect in my mind.
27
One more thought... if it is .Net related, it would be nice if Epicor
figured out what the issue was considering they must be seeing it too
based on their very demanding PC requirements.

> Just a hunch - the Progress back end probably isn't the issue.
The .net
> front end from MS is a bit suspect in my mind.
>
> Try Google with the following two searches:
>
> .net performance issues
>
> .net service pack
>
> This may be an issue with getting the most current service packs on
> everything MS related and then tuning the .net front end specifically.
>
> Todd Anderson
28
At Perspectives last year Ben Nixon stated they were working with Microsoft on a memory leak issue that was continually causing the recommended memory amount to be escalated. Once they figured out it was a leak they started with MS on it but at that time MS had no solution. It was atrributed to .Net problems. Also at that time Epicor was a leading pioneer in .Net deployment, especially on this scale, so was pushing the envelope as far as Microsoft's experience was "at that time". This was almost a year ago. Many changes may have been made in later patch releases to accomodate .Net fixes from MS concerning memory leaks. I was curious as to whether everyone reporting poor performance or huge memory requirements are using the latest patch level (which is???).

I had wanted to get an 8.0 testbed server going before Perspectives in October so I could go there with upgrade questions but looks like it will wait until after and the questions will be how big the test server itself needs to be.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: jameswi2000 [mailto:jameswi2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:23 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


One more thought... if it is .Net related, it would be nice if Epicor
figured out what the issue was considering they must be seeing it too
based on their very demanding PC requirements.

> Just a hunch - the Progress back end probably isn't the issue.
The .net
> front end from MS is a bit suspect in my mind.
>
> Try Google with the following two searches:
>
> .net performance issues
>
> .net service pack
>
> This may be an issue with getting the most current service packs on
> everything MS related and then tuning the .net front end specifically.
>
> Todd Anderson





Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
29
Chris Robisch wrote:

>Have the TS's direct-connected to Vantage Server
>with 3-5 nics in it, 2 in the TS's.
>
Might be benificial for Vantage 6, but looks like overkill for Vantage 8.
Low bandwidth demand is the one thing Vantage 8 excels in.

That's why you can deploy Vantage 8 on remote locations without
TS or Citrix, because of low bandwidth and latency requirements;
probably lower than RDP or ICA clients.

If you do insist on TS/Citrix for remote locations, it might even be
benificial
to locate the TS/Citrix server remotely. Running the Smart Client on the
remote location rather than centrally will prevent print jobs from
saturating all
available bandwidth.

Pim
30
We have been running P3s with 256MB and they have been painfully
slow. Even P4s with 512MB haven't been that great. We just upgraded
all the PCs to 512MB and 768MB where we could, hoping to salvage some
of them. Vantage along with the OS, will easily consume 512MB in
normal use, and even more with caching turned on (Epicor will tell
you to turn it on, and while it may help at first, PCs with low
memory will eventually use it all and then start crawling).

Long story short, for a user who will be in the system all day,
you'll need 1GB RAM and a P4 2+ Ghz. Also, at least a 100mbit
network, and would suggest considering gigabit.

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, Rich Shafer <rshafer@a...> wrote:
> For those already running/installing Vantage 8.
> What are your opinions on the system requirements 2.4 GHz and 768
MB - 1
> GB of RAM?
> Is this much necessary?
> How are machines with 512 MB RAM working out?
> Machines with slower processors?
> We are prepping to make the jump and want some real world opinion.
>
> Regards
> Rich
31
At 11:23 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:
>We have been running P3s with 256MB and they have been painfully
>slow. Even P4s with 512MB haven't been that great. We just
>upgraded all the PCs to 512MB and 768MB where we could, hoping to salvage some

The P3 is the best CPU Intel has designed to date. At the same clock
speed, it will stomp all over a P4 (you can get both in 1.0 - 1.4MHZ
models.) And an AMD will outrun both. Very sad, but Intel let the
marketing guys rather than the engineers design the P4.

What speed P3 are they? You can pick up cheap CPU upgrades on Ebay
and get them over 1GHz, and they still make a nice machine. Esp with
a decent new disk drive @ $50.

I'm on my 4 or 5 year old Athlon 1200 at home at the moment; have an
Athlon XP1700 at work, and an XP2500 on the wife's 'puter, all with
512MB, and they all feel the same (plenty zippy) seat of the
pants. And every one will spank the Dell Optiplex GX260 P4 2.4MHz
machines we have at the office in "seat of the pants" performance
feel. My XP1700 runs Seti, PI-Fast, and 7-Zip faster than the
2.4MHz Dells. In case you didn't pick up.... I think P4s are
lame! Oh... if you're loading a machine from scratch, do yourself a
favor and use 8 or 16K clusters on the disk.

OK. I haven't actually test driven Vantage 8, but I find it very
hard to believe it's that demanding.

-Wayne
32
Hi Wayne, Vantage IS that demanding -- we are experiencing it as well
as other users in this newsgroup. Epicor even stated that on a
conference call and in a PPT presentation.

I agree with everything you say below. And I also strongly agree,
for most applications, a P3 and P4 will feel about the same (except
for CPU intensive apps like 3D modeling, video editing,
and...Vantage). However, one notable limitation of the P3 is
memory. Many P3 motherboards are limited to 256MB or 512MB. Some of
the later boards went beyond this, but they seem to be few and far
between. 512MB for Vantage 8 isn't really a real-world spec, so that
is a strike against P3s.

Here's the other catch. By the time we upgrade the memory, the CPU
and disk drive, plus the cost of IT time for the upgrades, we can
pick up brand new Dells for around $300. Plus, if you don't use a
loaded P4, you aren't going to be using Epicor's "real-world" specs
and they will blame performance issues on your PC (it's slow either
way).

Thanks for the tip on the clusters. We stage all our own PCs. I'll
need to check out what cluster size the guys are using (I didn't
realize you could select it when using NTFS).

James

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, wmc20@x wrote:
> At 11:23 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:
> >We have been running P3s with 256MB and they have been painfully
> >slow. Even P4s with 512MB haven't been that great. We just
> >upgraded all the PCs to 512MB and 768MB where we could, hoping to
salvage some
>
> The P3 is the best CPU Intel has designed to date. At the same
clock
> speed, it will stomp all over a P4 (you can get both in 1.0 -
1.4MHZ
> models.) And an AMD will outrun both. Very sad, but Intel let
the
> marketing guys rather than the engineers design the P4.
>
> What speed P3 are they? You can pick up cheap CPU upgrades on Ebay
> and get them over 1GHz, and they still make a nice machine. Esp
with
> a decent new disk drive @ $50.
>
> I'm on my 4 or 5 year old Athlon 1200 at home at the moment; have
an
> Athlon XP1700 at work, and an XP2500 on the wife's 'puter, all with
> 512MB, and they all feel the same (plenty zippy) seat of the
> pants. And every one will spank the Dell Optiplex GX260 P4 2.4MHz
> machines we have at the office in "seat of the pants" performance
> feel. My XP1700 runs Seti, PI-Fast, and 7-Zip faster than the
> 2.4MHz Dells. In case you didn't pick up.... I think P4s are
> lame! Oh... if you're loading a machine from scratch, do yourself
a
> favor and use 8 or 16K clusters on the disk.
>
> OK. I haven't actually test driven Vantage 8, but I find it very
> hard to believe it's that demanding.
>
> -Wayne
33
Just for an additional 2 cents on Pentiums. They run hot, very hot, I've
heard reports of fires starting so hot. I have one Pentium left on my
network and that will soon be replaced by an AMD Operton 64.

Shirley

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jameswi2000
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:54 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements

Hi Wayne, Vantage IS that demanding -- we are experiencing it as well
as other users in this newsgroup. Epicor even stated that on a
conference call and in a PPT presentation.

I agree with everything you say below. And I also strongly agree,
for most applications, a P3 and P4 will feel about the same (except
for CPU intensive apps like 3D modeling, video editing,
and...Vantage). However, one notable limitation of the P3 is
memory. Many P3 motherboards are limited to 256MB or 512MB. Some of
the later boards went beyond this, but they seem to be few and far
between. 512MB for Vantage 8 isn't really a real-world spec, so that
is a strike against P3s.

Here's the other catch. By the time we upgrade the memory, the CPU
and disk drive, plus the cost of IT time for the upgrades, we can
pick up brand new Dells for around $300. Plus, if you don't use a
loaded P4, you aren't going to be using Epicor's "real-world" specs
and they will blame performance issues on your PC (it's slow either
way).

Thanks for the tip on the clusters. We stage all our own PCs. I'll
need to check out what cluster size the guys are using (I didn't
realize you could select it when using NTFS).

James

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, wmc20@x wrote:
> At 11:23 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:
> >We have been running P3s with 256MB and they have been painfully
> >slow. Even P4s with 512MB haven't been that great. We just
> >upgraded all the PCs to 512MB and 768MB where we could, hoping to
salvage some
>
> The P3 is the best CPU Intel has designed to date. At the same
clock
> speed, it will stomp all over a P4 (you can get both in 1.0 -
1.4MHZ
> models.) And an AMD will outrun both. Very sad, but Intel let
the
> marketing guys rather than the engineers design the P4.
>
> What speed P3 are they? You can pick up cheap CPU upgrades on Ebay
> and get them over 1GHz, and they still make a nice machine. Esp
with
> a decent new disk drive @ $50.
>
> I'm on my 4 or 5 year old Athlon 1200 at home at the moment; have
an
> Athlon XP1700 at work, and an XP2500 on the wife's 'puter, all with
> 512MB, and they all feel the same (plenty zippy) seat of the
> pants. And every one will spank the Dell Optiplex GX260 P4 2.4MHz
> machines we have at the office in "seat of the pants" performance
> feel. My XP1700 runs Seti, PI-Fast, and 7-Zip faster than the
> 2.4MHz Dells. In case you didn't pick up.... I think P4s are
> lame! Oh... if you're loading a machine from scratch, do yourself
a
> favor and use 8 or 16K clusters on the disk.
>
> OK. I haven't actually test driven Vantage 8, but I find it very
> hard to believe it's that demanding.
>
> -Wayne




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/>
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> "
on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

_____


Tracking #: 0C71B8C95486614E861D5C6124872A810CCB0E20


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
34
Is it Vantage that is so demanding? Or is it the .NET platform that requires so many resources?

We've had Vantage for years and performance has been excellent. From what I understand, with some exceptions, core functionality is basically the same so I've got to believe that the overhead is associated with .NET.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of jameswi2000
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:54 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] Re: Vantage 8 System Requirements


Hi Wayne, Vantage IS that demanding -- we are experiencing it as well
as other users in this newsgroup. Epicor even stated that on a
conference call and in a PPT presentation.

I agree with everything you say below. And I also strongly agree,
for most applications, a P3 and P4 will feel about the same (except
for CPU intensive apps like 3D modeling, video editing,
and...Vantage). However, one notable limitation of the P3 is
memory. Many P3 motherboards are limited to 256MB or 512MB. Some of
the later boards went beyond this, but they seem to be few and far
between. 512MB for Vantage 8 isn't really a real-world spec, so that
is a strike against P3s.

Here's the other catch. By the time we upgrade the memory, the CPU
and disk drive, plus the cost of IT time for the upgrades, we can
pick up brand new Dells for around $300. Plus, if you don't use a
loaded P4, you aren't going to be using Epicor's "real-world" specs
and they will blame performance issues on your PC (it's slow either
way).

Thanks for the tip on the clusters. We stage all our own PCs. I'll
need to check out what cluster size the guys are using (I didn't
realize you could select it when using NTFS).

James

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, wmc20@x wrote:
> At 11:23 AM 9/11/2005, you wrote:
> >We have been running P3s with 256MB and they have been painfully
> >slow. Even P4s with 512MB haven't been that great. We just
> >upgraded all the PCs to 512MB and 768MB where we could, hoping to
salvage some
>
> The P3 is the best CPU Intel has designed to date. At the same
clock
> speed, it will stomp all over a P4 (you can get both in 1.0 -
1.4MHZ
> models.) And an AMD will outrun both. Very sad, but Intel let
the
> marketing guys rather than the engineers design the P4.
>
> What speed P3 are they? You can pick up cheap CPU upgrades on Ebay
> and get them over 1GHz, and they still make a nice machine. Esp
with
> a decent new disk drive @ $50.
>
> I'm on my 4 or 5 year old Athlon 1200 at home at the moment; have
an
> Athlon XP1700 at work, and an XP2500 on the wife's 'puter, all with
> 512MB, and they all feel the same (plenty zippy) seat of the
> pants. And every one will spank the Dell Optiplex GX260 P4 2.4MHz
> machines we have at the office in "seat of the pants" performance
> feel. My XP1700 runs Seti, PI-Fast, and 7-Zip faster than the
> 2.4MHz Dells. In case you didn't pick up.... I think P4s are
> lame! Oh... if you're loading a machine from scratch, do yourself
a
> favor and use 8 or 16K clusters on the disk.
>
> OK. I haven't actually test driven Vantage 8, but I find it very
> hard to believe it's that demanding.
>
> -Wayne




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group " vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> " on the web.


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]