[WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

To Todd et. al,

Here's a web cast on LED lighting. The only bad thing is it uses Real
Player...

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Here's a quick reminder to register now for our exclusive webcast!

"LED Manufacturers' Panel Webcast"

It's available now for viewing on-demand at your convenience.


Duration: 45 minutes

Hosted by EDN, sponsored by ASIC Advantage, Avnet Lightspeed, and
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EDN's Designing with LEDs workshop, held in Santa Clara, CA, on April
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This webcast allows you to hear the LED Manufacturers' Panel
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----

Presenters:

Francis Nguyen
Senior Product Marketing Manager,
OSRAM Opto Semiconductors

Francis Nguyen is a Senior Product Manager at OSRAM Opto
Semiconductors Inc, where he is responsible for product marketing of
Intelligent Displays and LED products used in LED displays, LCD
backlighting and Projection Displays. Francis has held various
engineering and product management positions in LED and Display
products at OSRAM. He holds a B.Sc in E.E. from the University of
Hong Kong. Prior to joining OSRAM/Siemens in 1991, Francis had worked
in the semiconductor industry for 20 years and his experience included
designing automatic assembly equipment and also manufacturing
engineering in a semiconductor assembly facility. OSRAM Opto is one
of the leading LED suppliers and is vertically integrated, having its
own design and manufacturing facilities in chip fabrication and
back-end assembly.



Paul Scheidt
Product Manager. Lighting Division,
Cree Components

Paul Scheidt is the Product Marketing Manager, LED Components at Cree.
Paul's experience and leadership has been important in developing
successful tools for educating and disseminating information about LED
lighting. Prior to joining Cree in 2005, he did both software and
hardware testing at IBM. Paul has an MBA from NC State University
where he also graduated with a dual B.S. degree in Computer
Engineering and Electrical Engineering.



Willem Sillevis-Smitt
Strategic Marketing Director,
Philips Lumileds

Willem Sillevis-Smitt is Strategic Marketing Director at Philips
Lumileds. Willem has been within the Lighting Industry since 1995 and
with Philips Lumileds since 2000. Before joining Philips Lumileds, he
worked in fluorescent and compact fluorescent (CFL) in various roles.
For Philips Lumileds Willem has worked in supply chain and operations,
development and marketing / business development based out of Europe,
Asia and now San Jose Ca. His current focus is to translate market and
customer needs into current and future product requirements.



Moderator:

Margery Conner
LED Conference Chair,
Technical Editor,
EDN

Margery Conner joined Reed's electronics-industry portal, e-inSITE, as
a technical editor in 1998 and became editorial director in 1999. She
created some of the earliest e-mail newsletters for the electronics
industry, including narrowly-focused niche newsletters. She also
developed a video-on-demand news program for the electronics-OEM
market. When EDN magazine absorbed e-inSITE, she moved over to EDN
where she covers Power Systems as well as Components. She has a BSEE
from the University of California, Irvine and 10 years of experience
as a design engineer and engineering manager.



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I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would be interested in the feedback on this as well.

Mark

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Caughey
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:26 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting





I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in
our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience
in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this
is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have not converted, but have investigated.

Make sure to include T5 lighting in your investigation.

Doug Oswald
MIS
Fleetwood Fixtures
Todd,

I sent you a response off line, but your server rejected it. Let me know how to get through, and I will be happy to send you my thoughts. Or, give me a call.

Thom Rose
Controller
Electric Mirror LLC
HOTEL LUXURY

"The World Leader in Back-lit Mirrors & Mirror TV Technology"

T 425 776-4946
A 11831 Beverly Park Rd, Bldg D, Everett, WA 98204 USA
www.electricmirror.com<http://www.electricmirror.com>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Todd Caughey wrote:
> I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

It's a nice idea, but... I suspect lighting costs are a relatively
small portion of your energy costs. Think 80/20 rule; I'd bet lighting
is 15% or less of your bill. Better to go after the big consumption
areas first. I'd guess your top 3 are HVAC, shop machinery and computer
equipment. Of course anything you reduce also helps out on the HVAC
during cooling months. Or do you get those in MN? hehe.

-Wayne
Thanks. It's a mix between capital expense and up front cash versus savings. HVAC will eventually get it's turn as this building approaches 20 years old in a couple years but will be a huge expense up front. While heating is far more of an issue we actually do do cooling as well. Lights are less expensive.

We had a lighting salesperson in today pushing T8 lights (I asked about T5 and he said payback would be better for us with T8) and he said LED was not effective enough yet for high bay locations. They top out at about 17 feet and we need 30'. He figured we would cut the electric bill by about $30K and payback the switch in 18 months. The opinion on LED sort of matches what I've been finding from other sources...not ready for prime time, yet. Someday yes but not now.

Actually our Gorilla in the room energy cost is in the plant equipment (stamping presses, compressors, CNC mills and Lasers).

A lot of the topic for us, aside from saving some dollars, relates to ISO 14001.

-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayne
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:13 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting




Todd Caughey wrote:
> I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

It's a nice idea, but... I suspect lighting costs are a relatively
small portion of your energy costs. Think 80/20 rule; I'd bet lighting
is 15% or less of your bill. Better to go after the big consumption
areas first. I'd guess your top 3 are HVAC, shop machinery and computer
equipment. Of course anything you reduce also helps out on the HVAC
during cooling months. Or do you get those in MN? hehe.

-Wayne




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wayne writes:

> It's a nice idea, but... I suspect lighting costs are a relatively
> small portion of your energy costs. Think 80/20 rule; I'd bet lighting
> is 15% or less of your bill. Better to go after the big consumption
> areas first.

Great advice.

I sometimes find some good articles on LED lighting at the Electronic Design
News website. They usually cover LED stuff every so often. This is from
earlier this month:

http://www.edn.com/blog/1470000147/post/80044208.html?nid=3351&rid=8437785

Mark W.
Todd,

If you look around, T5 is mentioned as the solution for 25' and higher. T8 is for 18' and lower.

(taken from lightingassociates dot org)

Q: "T8 or T5-HO: Which lamp type should I use?"
A: Numerous discussions surround the decision to use T8 or T5-HO lamps when replacing an HID fixture. As a manufacturer that utilizes both lamp types in our fixture designs, we would like to offer some important points you may want to consider. If you ask the right questions, you should get the answers that will help lead you to the right decision. For clarification, we are addressing the use of T8 and T5-HO lamps in industrial applications, specifically high and low-bay lighting. Indirect lighting for office space is a separate topic.
We feel T8 lamps provide a better quality of light with less glare in areas where the fixture height is lower than 20 feet. The T5-HO lamp delivers a brighter light source within a smaller diameter allowing us to design the reflector with better optic precision. This provides better quality light output and higher fixture efficiency. As a general rule of thumb, a T5-HO fixture should be used in applications above 20 feet and T8 fixtures below 20 feet. There is a gap between 18 and 25-foot heights where either T8 or T5-HO fixtures can be used successfully. This is were you really need to pay attention to what your asking for and what you may get.

Doug


We had a lighting salesperson in today pushing T8 lights (I asked about T5 and he said payback would be better for us with T8) and he said LED was not effective enough yet for high bay locations. They top out at about 17 feet and we need 30'.
LED is great for close proximity work spaces but (as said earlier by someone) not really ready for high bay lighting.

You want to save energy? Invest in efficient air compressors (on timers) and hunt down every air leak you can find.

If you've got CNC, painting & assembly areas, you've got air (some likely being waste).

Also look at solar for flat roofs... Most power companies will put up the cash to install (as that is cheaper than beefing up strained power grids).

Rob




________________________________
From: Mark Wonsil <mark_wonsil@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:19:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting





Wayne writes:

> It's a nice idea, but... I suspect lighting costs are a relatively
> small portion of your energy costs. Think 80/20 rule; I'd bet lighting
> is 15% or less of your bill. Better to go after the big consumption
> areas first.

Great advice.

I sometimes find some good articles on LED lighting at the Electronic Design
News website. They usually cover LED stuff every so often. This is from
earlier this month:

http://www.edn com/blog/ 1470000147/ post/80044208. html?nid= 3351&rid= 8437785

Mark W.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Todd,



We recently upgraded our shop and office lights and went with the T8's. If I remember correctly the bulbs last a lot longer than the T5's and use less energy. We also got a significant rebate from the Power Company for doing so, you may want to look into that. We received a credit for every old style fixture we took out.



Elizabeth







To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
From: caugheyt@...
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting







I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks. I am pretty sure we are in the loop with Xcel Energy since we are on a summer cutback program on very hot days that gets us a discount if we keep the power below a certain limit. So we all sit around in hot dark offices so the plant keeps running. ;)

We'll probably also look into Federal tax credits too, if any. I verified that our plant height (at least where lights would hang) is 19', in the range for T8s, so that's good.

-Todd C.


-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of E. Hahn
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting


Hi Todd,



We recently upgraded our shop and office lights and went with the T8's. If I remember correctly the bulbs last a lot longer than the T5's and use less energy. We also got a significant rebate from the Power Company for doing so, you may want to look into that. We received a credit for every old style fixture we took out.



Elizabeth







To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
From: caugheyt@...
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting







I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links
Another way to save electricity costs is to reduce your demand rate. The power company monitors your peak usage, usually between 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM and again between 3:00 PM and 5:00 PM to record the maximum (peak) demand for the day. Based on that, your demand rate is set and all electricity used is priced accordingly.

Large motors, etc. use a lot of power in the first few minutes when they are powered on. Simply making sure you start such motors in a staggered fashion rather than all at once can significantly reduce your peak demand rate and greatly reduce your electricity costs. We actually wired our 15 largest motors (large hydraulic presses) so that they would not be able to be started within 3 minutes of one another. It's not a green solution like LED lighting because you are not really reducing the amount of electricity you are using, just the price per KWH.

You can get hourly demand data from the power company. It can be a VERY significant $$ savings.

Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting





Thanks. I am pretty sure we are in the loop with Xcel Energy since we are on a summer cutback program on very hot days that gets us a discount if we keep the power below a certain limit. So we all sit around in hot dark offices so the plant keeps running. ;)

We'll probably also look into Federal tax credits too, if any. I verified that our plant height (at least where lights would hang) is 19', in the range for T8s, so that's good.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of E. Hahn
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

Hi Todd,

We recently upgraded our shop and office lights and went with the T8's. If I remember correctly the bulbs last a lot longer than the T5's and use less energy. We also got a significant rebate from the Power Company for doing so, you may want to look into that. We received a credit for every old style fixture we took out.

Elizabeth

To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
From: caugheyt@...
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks. I'll check that too. Our plant manager told me this morning we're going with the T8s. The power company will rebate about $26K for it and the payback in power savings for the rest will be 20 months. One area of the plant will be done by next week to check out the light quality. Another interesting facet...no rebates from Xcel for LED lights, only florescent lights. Another saving, in Summer anyway, the old Sodium Vapor lights run 1,100° and there are 283 of them in the plant. Should reduce the cooling load and natural gas assisted heat pumps are cheaper for heating in Winter.
-Todd C.

________________________________
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gclauser
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:49 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting




Another way to save electricity costs is to reduce your demand rate. The power company monitors your peak usage, usually between 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM and again between 3:00 PM and 5:00 PM to record the maximum (peak) demand for the day. Based on that, your demand rate is set and all electricity used is priced accordingly.

Large motors, etc. use a lot of power in the first few minutes when they are powered on. Simply making sure you start such motors in a staggered fashion rather than all at once can significantly reduce your peak demand rate and greatly reduce your electricity costs. We actually wired our 15 largest motors (large hydraulic presses) so that they would not be able to be started within 3 minutes of one another. It's not a green solution like LED lighting because you are not really reducing the amount of electricity you are using, just the price per KWH.

You can get hourly demand data from the power company. It can be a VERY significant $$ savings.

Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

Thanks. I am pretty sure we are in the loop with Xcel Energy since we are on a summer cutback program on very hot days that gets us a discount if we keep the power below a certain limit. So we all sit around in hot dark offices so the plant keeps running. ;)

We'll probably also look into Federal tax credits too, if any. I verified that our plant height (at least where lights would hang) is 19', in the range for T8s, so that's good.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of E. Hahn
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

Hi Todd,

We recently upgraded our shop and office lights and went with the T8's. If I remember correctly the bulbs last a lot longer than the T5's and use less energy. We also got a significant rebate from the Power Company for doing so, you may want to look into that. We received a credit for every old style fixture we took out.

Elizabeth

To: vantage@yahoogroups.com<mailto:vantage%40yahoogroups.com>
From: caugheyt@...<mailto:caugheyt%40harveyvogel.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you're heavy motor start draw process equipment oriented (equipment unlike CNC machines that are purposefully hard start to minimize cycle times) putting hydralic softstarts (slip clutches) on drives can help tremendously. AC variable controllers are a good second choice (but don't last as long as the bullet proofhydraulic clutch units). You can usually even retrofit these to old compressors and see noticeable power use reductions.

Rob


Â



________________________________
From: gclauser <gclauser@...>
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:48:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting





Another way to save electricity costs is to reduce your demand rate. The power company monitors your peak usage, usually between 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM and again between 3:00 PM and 5:00 PM to record the maximum (peak) demand for the day. Based on that, your demand rate is set and all electricity used is priced accordingly.

Large motors, etc. use a lot of power in the first few minutes when they are powered on. Simply making sure you start such motors in a staggered fashion rather than all at once can significantly reduce your peak demand rate and greatly reduce your electricity costs. We actually wired our 15 largest motors (large hydraulic presses) so that they would not be able to be started within 3 minutes of one another. It's not a green solution like LED lighting because you are not really reducing the amount of electricity you are using, just the price per KWH.

You can get hourly demand data from the power company. It can be a VERY significant $$ savings.

Greg

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Caughey
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

Thanks. I am pretty sure we are in the loop with Xcel Energy since we are on a summer cutback program on very hot days that gets us a discount if we keep the power below a certain limit. So we all sit around in hot dark offices so the plant keeps running. ;)

We'll probably also look into Federal tax credits too, if any. I verified that our plant height (at least where lights would hang) is 19', in the range for T8s, so that's good.

-Todd C.

-----Original Message-----
From: vantage@yahoogroups .com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of E. Hahn
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

Hi Todd,

We recently upgraded our shop and office lights and went with the T8's. If I remember correctly the bulbs last a lot longer than the T5's and use less energy. We also got a significant rebate from the Power Company for doing so, you may want to look into that. We received a credit for every old style fixture we took out.

Elizabeth

To: vantage@yahoogroups .com
From: caugheyt@harveyvoge l.com
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:25:30 -0500
Subject: [Vantage] [WAY OT] LED Plant Lighting

I have been drafted on to a team investigating LED lighting options in our plant to save some electricity dollars. Anyone have any experience in their facility with this? Feel free to contact me off-list since this is so far off topic unless there are others are also interested.

Thanks,
Todd Caughey
Harvey Vogel Mfg. Co.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive. com/explore? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_BR_ life_in_synch_ 052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vantage/ linksYahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]