What have people experienced with implementations a t small sho

Shirley

You are not alone . . . . .

Regards Chris Reed
PWSL
,

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday 25 May, 2001 14:04
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations a t
small shops.

Thad I completely agree that Paper docs can be more practical at times than
data entry. Paper less doesn't mean NO paper it means LESS paper. I just
don't agree with a plant manager trying to schedule a 10 million dollar
plant on a 3 foot by 4 foot sheet of paper, (Which ours does), or to manage
a factory Inventory on index cards, (Which ours does) or to reveiw open
orders due dates from sheets in ring binders, or to require our shipping
manager to hand write shipping information (in three diferent areas of the
shop) or to demand our operators to write down redundant information for
each machine cycle. Maybe I'm just ahead of my time here but I think a
plant manger should be planning better efficiancies than spending 70% of his
time calculating and recalcualting changing situations.
Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron
Without any formal system currently - does this mean a manual system without
any computers? Or just that you weren't using an integrated software?

Either way it just plain takes time (& lots of it) to learn the software and
plan how you are going to use it. What type of information are you wanting
it to generate and what kind of info are you depending on now? You will
still need that in the future. Financial statements, inventory reports,
etc. etc. I also counted our implementation planning in months (4-6)rather
than weeks. The fewer the users, the more information about the company
each individual knows, but it still takes time. We are a precision machine
shop, with around 60 employees and about 10 office users.

Is there specific information you are seeking? Mike Lowe's offer sounds
wonderful and he has more experience, but I would also be willing to give
you feedback.

Hope this helps.

Deb
Reeder & Kline

-----Original Message-----
From: rjohnson@... [mailto:rjohnson@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:31 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations at
small shops.


What have people experienced with Vantage implementations at small
shops? How much time has it taken to Implement Vantage to a point
that the system adds value to a company (2 weeks 4 weeks, etc.)
Granted this is a very small shop (less than 10 office users) and
only the basic modules are going to be used. Additionally, the
company is without any formal system currently.

Just curious what small shops have experienced with similar sized
implementations.

Many Thanks



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have 11 office users and 4 data collection, about 75 employees. We
had no real formal system except a job numbered labor collection system
by job. It took 3-4 months. We also had a language problem with most
of the production workers speaking only Spanish.

-----Original Message-----
From: rjohnson@...
[SMTP:rjohnson@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:31 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Vantage] What have people experienced with
implementations at small shops.

What have people experienced with Vantage implementations at
small
shops? How much time has it taken to Implement Vantage to a
point
that the system adds value to a company (2 weeks 4 weeks, etc.)
Granted this is a very small shop (less than 10 office users)
and
only the basic modules are going to be used. Additionally, the
company is without any formal system currently.

Just curious what small shops have experienced with similar
sized
implementations.

Many Thanks



To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report
Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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"We started in 1997
and still aren't fully implimented because of a manufacturing department
that believes more in PENCILS than electrons."

We've been using Vantage since late 98. We have 20 licenses, but only about
half of those are data entry. We find that it is more practical many times
to have something written in pencil on a form, and have that form initialed,
before it ever gets entered in the database.

We don't currently have anyone in manufacturing, except the Manufacturing
Manager who is in charge of purchasing subcontract ops, entering anything in
vantage. In fact, we still use the old fashioned pencil time cards,
combined with a time clock which isn't directly connected to vantage.
Before a part makes it into the system, we fill out a form in pencil, and
have it signed in pen.

Whenever a change needs to be made on a part entry, there are also approvals
in pencil.

We have close to 70 employees, most of which can write much faster in pencil
than on the keyboard.

Besides, you can't chew on a keyboard.

~Thaddeus

-----Original Message-----
From: Nora Story [mailto:Nora_Story@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:43 PM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations
at small shops.


Wow, Shirley! And I thought our company was the only slacker in the bunch.
Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.
Nora Story
Spectra Technologies, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [SMTP:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:03 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with
implementations at
small shops.


" the company is without any formal system currently"

The above will be both a curse and a blessing. My suggestion is that when
you do implement, you write formal procedures and work instructions as you
go. While that may seem to be excess work, you will benefit to no end
after
you've implemented. Vantage CAN be implimented in a year or less, BUT
everybody MUST be on board. Each person not buying into your
implimentation
will add at least 6 months to you your implimentation. We started in 1997
and still aren't fully implimented because of a manufacturing department
that believes more in PENCILS than electrons.

Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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Thad I completely agree that Paper docs can be more practical at times than
data entry. Paper less doesn't mean NO paper it means LESS paper. I just
don't agree with a plant manager trying to schedule a 10 million dollar
plant on a 3 foot by 4 foot sheet of paper, (Which ours does), or to manage
a factory Inventory on index cards, (Which ours does) or to reveiw open
orders due dates from sheets in ring binders, or to require our shipping
manager to hand write shipping information (in three diferent areas of the
shop) or to demand our operators to write down redundant information for
each machine cycle. Maybe I'm just ahead of my time here but I think a
plant manger should be planning better efficiancies than spending 70% of his
time calculating and recalcualting changing situations.
Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron

-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations a
t small shops.


" We find that it is more practical many times
to have something written in pencil on a form, and have that form
initialed,
before it ever gets entered in the database.

We don't currently have anyone in manufacturing, except the Manufacturing
Manager who is in charge of purchasing subcontract ops, entering anything
in
vantage. In fact, we still use the old fashioned pencil time cards,
combined with a time clock which isn't directly connected to vantage.
Before a part makes it into the system, we fill out a form in pencil, and
have it signed in pen.

Whenever a change needs to be made on a part entry, there are also
approvals
in pencil.

We have close to 70 employees, most of which can write much faster in
pencil
than on the keyboard.

Besides, you can't chew on a keyboard.

~Thaddeus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shirley,

My president would be thrilled with your setup. He is always saying how
much better things were when we used the pencil and paper. He TRUSTED the
figures more back then.

With sympathy,

Darren

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations
a t small shops.


Thad I completely agree that Paper docs can be more practical at times than
data entry. Paper less doesn't mean NO paper it means LESS paper. I just
don't agree with a plant manager trying to schedule a 10 million dollar
plant on a 3 foot by 4 foot sheet of paper, (Which ours does), or to manage
a factory Inventory on index cards, (Which ours does) or to reveiw open
orders due dates from sheets in ring binders, or to require our shipping
manager to hand write shipping information (in three diferent areas of the
shop) or to demand our operators to write down redundant information for
each machine cycle. Maybe I'm just ahead of my time here but I think a
plant manger should be planning better efficiancies than spending 70% of his
time calculating and recalcualting changing situations.
Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron

-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations a
t small shops.


" We find that it is more practical many times
to have something written in pencil on a form, and have that form
initialed,
before it ever gets entered in the database.

We don't currently have anyone in manufacturing, except the Manufacturing
Manager who is in charge of purchasing subcontract ops, entering anything
in
vantage. In fact, we still use the old fashioned pencil time cards,
combined with a time clock which isn't directly connected to vantage.
Before a part makes it into the system, we fill out a form in pencil, and
have it signed in pen.

Whenever a change needs to be made on a part entry, there are also
approvals
in pencil.

We have close to 70 employees, most of which can write much faster in
pencil
than on the keyboard.

Besides, you can't chew on a keyboard.

~Thaddeus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

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There's trust and then there's trust...we had the paper index cards, counted
the inventory every three months AND IT WAS NEVER RIGHT!!!! I finally
convinced the president of the company to let me collect the "white cards"
-- I asked him how old he was when he took off the training wheels on his 2
wheeler. But it's a constant battle, they all want those white boards and a
thing they had here that was called "the Travel log" -an excel spreadsheet
that went on for miles. One person spent every Friday - ALL DAY - walking
around the shop to see where every job was.

I guess if you can convince them to look at $10 million a year with 70
employees vs. $6 million a year with 58 employees, that helps.

Get them that book "WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?"

Lydia

(I so good at this, I can't spell my dang name today!)


-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with
implementations a t small shops.

Shirley,

My president would be thrilled with your setup. He is always saying how
much better things were when we used the pencil and paper. He TRUSTED the
figures more back then.

With sympathy,

Darren

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations
a t small shops.


Thad I completely agree that Paper docs can be more practical at times than
data entry. Paper less doesn't mean NO paper it means LESS paper. I just
don't agree with a plant manager trying to schedule a 10 million dollar
plant on a 3 foot by 4 foot sheet of paper, (Which ours does), or to manage
a factory Inventory on index cards, (Which ours does) or to reveiw open
orders due dates from sheets in ring binders, or to require our shipping
manager to hand write shipping information (in three diferent areas of the
shop) or to demand our operators to write down redundant information for
each machine cycle. Maybe I'm just ahead of my time here but I think a
plant manger should be planning better efficiancies than spending 70% of his
time calculating and recalcualting changing situations.
Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron

-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations a
t small shops.


" We find that it is more practical many times
to have something written in pencil on a form, and have that form
initialed,
before it ever gets entered in the database.

We don't currently have anyone in manufacturing, except the Manufacturing
Manager who is in charge of purchasing subcontract ops, entering anything
in
vantage. In fact, we still use the old fashioned pencil time cards,
combined with a time clock which isn't directly connected to vantage.
Before a part makes it into the system, we fill out a form in pencil, and
have it signed in pen.

Whenever a change needs to be made on a part entry, there are also
approvals
in pencil.

We have close to 70 employees, most of which can write much faster in
pencil
than on the keyboard.

Besides, you can't chew on a keyboard.

~Thaddeus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Our Owner will scratch out a multimillion dollar design concept on a 17x22
piece of paper. However, before it is quoted, it is assigned a part number
in vantage, and a formal quote is made up. Usually he'll give it to a cad
guy to draw up. He's one of those owners that realizes that its just as
necessary to use computers to automate a company, just as in the automation
of a machine.

A machinist working on three seperate jobs is not going to type in the
operations he's working on on a computer. Rather, at the end of the day
he'll write a time card, then clock out.

He is not allowed to work off of a hand sketch, unless that sketch is
stamped master, and given a part number in vantage, by the manufacturing
manager or document control.

I was in no way implying that we go backwards and toss vantage and
electronic data out, I was just affirming the fact that until everyone in
the shop has their own computer, and is faster at typing than writing, or
faster at CAD than on the drawing board, there will always be a place in our
shop for paper data.

Best Regards,

Thaddeus Jacobs
Assistant LAN Technologist / Vantage Support
Kinematic Automation, Inc
mailto:tjacobs@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Lydia Coffman [mailto:lcoffman@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:43 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations
a t small shops.


There's trust and then there's trust...we had the paper index cards, counted
the inventory every three months AND IT WAS NEVER RIGHT!!!! I finally
convinced the president of the company to let me collect the "white cards"
-- I asked him how old he was when he took off the training wheels on his 2
wheeler. But it's a constant battle, they all want those white boards and a
thing they had here that was called "the Travel log" -an excel spreadsheet
that went on for miles. One person spent every Friday - ALL DAY - walking
around the shop to see where every job was.

I guess if you can convince them to look at $10 million a year with 70
employees vs. $6 million a year with 58 employees, that helps.

Get them that book "WHO MOVED MY CHEESE?"

Lydia

(I so good at this, I can't spell my dang name today!)


-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Mann [mailto:dmann@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:36 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with
implementations a t small shops.

Shirley,

My president would be thrilled with your setup. He is always saying how
much better things were when we used the pencil and paper. He TRUSTED the
figures more back then.

With sympathy,

Darren

-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Graver [mailto:shirleyg@...]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:04 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations
a t small shops.


Thad I completely agree that Paper docs can be more practical at times than
data entry. Paper less doesn't mean NO paper it means LESS paper. I just
don't agree with a plant manager trying to schedule a 10 million dollar
plant on a 3 foot by 4 foot sheet of paper, (Which ours does), or to manage
a factory Inventory on index cards, (Which ours does) or to reveiw open
orders due dates from sheets in ring binders, or to require our shipping
manager to hand write shipping information (in three diferent areas of the
shop) or to demand our operators to write down redundant information for
each machine cycle. Maybe I'm just ahead of my time here but I think a
plant manger should be planning better efficiancies than spending 70% of his
time calculating and recalcualting changing situations.
Shirley Graver
(End User)
Sys Admin
Rubber associates Inc.
Cleveland/Akron

-----Original Message-----
From: Thad Jacobs [mailto:tjacobs@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:11 AM
To: 'vantage@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Vantage] What have people experienced with implementations a
t small shops.


" We find that it is more practical many times
to have something written in pencil on a form, and have that form
initialed,
before it ever gets entered in the database.

We don't currently have anyone in manufacturing, except the Manufacturing
Manager who is in charge of purchasing subcontract ops, entering anything
in
vantage. In fact, we still use the old fashioned pencil time cards,
combined with a time clock which isn't directly connected to vantage.
Before a part makes it into the system, we fill out a form in pencil, and
have it signed in pen.

Whenever a change needs to be made on a part entry, there are also
approvals
in pencil.

We have close to 70 employees, most of which can write much faster in
pencil
than on the keyboard.

Besides, you can't chew on a keyboard.

~Thaddeus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
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linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/. Note: You must have already
linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/