Are there any downsides going from v10 to Kinetic Cloud?

Hello Everyone,

I’m new in my business role and this is my first ever exposure to Epicor. I’m still learning so please be nice. :slight_smile:

One of my first tasks is evaluating the project case for upgrading Epicor (which will happen) but evaluating whether we should stay on-premise or move to the cloud. From what I’m finding out so far is we don’t have much complexity that I’m aware of, but I’m still doing more research on that. We have about 20-25 concurrent user licenses for the business. One of the biggest concerns so far is making sure we’re upgraded often. I’ve reviewed documentation for both on-premise and cloud environments, while I do have a soft spot for the old ideology of controlling your systems/data, the cloud version just looks so much more promising.

So what I’m asking is that if costs are not a deal-breaker and our customizations can be addressed by the cloud tools, is there a reason not to go cloud?

Much help is appreciated!

Welcome @ccampos24747 !

I am a big fan of the cloud, especially for small companies. There is a loss of control when transitioning to the cloud, but Epicor is working on providing some of that control back. Things like refreshing the data model. You come across small things that are annoying, but honestly, if you were not coming from an existing install, you would not notice.

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There are a lot of folks who can chime in with advice here.
I am moving from on prem E10 to cloud.
I will suggest you get access to the analyzer tool. It’s a cloud based tool that will provide a lot of information about your environment. It run in 10 mins and it’s free. Ask your CAM.
Upgrade cadence on cloud is aggressive, but I’m prepared for it. You need to make that determination for your team.
Are you going to insights this year? You should! And come to our meetup. Network and make some friends who can help you.
I am presenting on should you upgrade to the cloud. I don’t mind practicing my slides with you if you’re interested. I just need to start them :flushed:

That seems like a big ask for someone who is just learning Epicor. Make sure you do a good search of the forums here, there have been some good discussions in the past about migrating, what the differences are, and when its a good choice.

These two statements have me wondering if you have an accurate understanding of the the difference between the cloud and on premise. They are the exact same software, just one is hosted locally, and the other is hosted in a cloud, Epicor’s or otherwise. Don’t get the Kinetic UI mixed up with cloud.

The other statement that has me concerned is cloud tools addressing customizations. Its not going to uplift Classic UI customizations to Kinetic UI customizations. Can you tell us more about the kind of customizations you guys use?

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As a fellow cloud user, and appreciative user of EpiUsers, I’d be happy to look them over.

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Hi!

Well I have experience as a BA in the engineering applications and systems space. That’s where I got all my PM experience in with mission critical systems. The task isn’t immediate or pressing, so there’s plenty of time for me to do my research (which I’m doing) as I’ve already engaged the account rep on my own and received lots of great information for understanding everything. I received access to the analyzer as well so that’s nice.

What I meant by my first statement when I said “version” was more or less the offering itself of the time upgrades, scalability, and just overall less burden internally for managing our on on-prem environment. I did read that both versions are the same, just one has less flexibility and control due to it being managed by Epicor themselves. More on that later!

The second statement was just more of a open, very generalized statement to get conversation going for me to learn! What criteria led your company to pursue the option that they did? I’d be interested on learning as the input may shed light on some of my areas here that I need to learn.

Thanks for the response!

P.S. pardon my typos…my fingers seem to miss a key here and there.

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To be honest, I was left out of the decision making process, which turned out to
be a good idea, as I was dead set against it.

They don’t do that anymore, but we (the royal we, not me :rofl: ) made a good decision.

We’ve been happy overall.

Okay, sounds like you do have a grasp. I apologize if I implied you weren’t qualified, that wasn’t my intent.

I wasn’t with the company when we made the choice, but I believe the hope was that if we went with cloud we could do away with internal IT. It certainly can reduce your IT needs, but operating Epicor, or even reporting errors and creating cases, requires some IT talent.

We were early adopters of cloud, I think even on E9. It was probably cheap at that time to grow their userbase as well. In the past, the restrictions were pretty severe and I did stumble over them. Now that we are on a modern “Public Cloud” offering I haven’t found it bad at all, and its set to get even better from what I hear.

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Yes, at the 2 companies that I have taken to the cloud, cost of hardware was the main driver.

There’s also a third option, private cloud like azure.

No worries. I was very lazy in my original post, but thought I’d shed more light on my background. I’m also learning terminology for Epicor and what’s interchangeable and not, etc… Our IT staff is a staff of 3 (including manager) and our main duties are projects along with new solutions. W do some help desk work but other than that, we are that IT talent that you referred to. :slight_smile:

That all aside, I’m keen on reducing footprints where possible and implementing integrations where I can to tie technologies together. I’m not sure if I’ll be at Insights this year, but will definitely make the case for it for next year.

What version are you on now? Your profile says “2014”, so most likely 9, but maybe 10. The technical issues will sort themselves out (they always do), but your users are going to see a MASSIVE change.

I was in IT for 30 years or so before coming over to the Dark Side (becoming a consultant), and like you, I’d be on the team for projects like this, and one thing that was always hard to explain was the impact on the user base. If your management team “gets it”, that is a HUGE advantage. If they don’t, buckle up.

And welcome to the group!

In my opinion, going from on-prem to the cloud is not that hard of a jump. Even going from Epicor 10 to Epicor 11 (or 2023/2024) isn’t that much of a jump. The biggest jump is going from the classic forms to the Kinetic forms, especially if you’ve got a lot of UI customizations with business logic embedded in the customizations.

Now, going to the cloud will bring about the issue with customizations because of the way Epicor cadence works. You’re going to be upgrading every six months whether you like it or not (you can flex a few months, but you’re still upgrading). And, at some point, Epicor is still holding the “classic forms are going away” promise (threat) in their pocket. Originally, we’re probably pretty close to when that was originally going to happen, but they’ve put that off indefinitely. If you’re on the cloud and they put a sunset date for classic forms, you could have a lot of redevelopment to do.

Finally, I had a client switch from on-prem to cloud a few years ago, and old-school me was pretty leery of it. I have been pleasantly surprised, and I now have a few clients on the cloud (including 99% kinetic forms). There are certainly some things that a bit tougher with on-premise, but nothing that can’t be worked around. And the entire reason for going cloud is a bigger benefit than the nuisance issues that have work arounds. To me, the biggest nuisances are (1) SSRS development is more challenging, (2) no SQL access for ad-hoc queries or quick looks at data, (3) setting up any interfaces with local machines is a little more challenging. Again, nothing that’s a deal-killer.

I tell people if the business case for the cloud is there, then make the jump as long as you don’t have MAJOR (and I mean MAJOR) classic UI customizations/integrations.

HTH. Kevin

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:sob:

I think the key point that should be realized for companies with a small IT staff or no staff.
The cloud does operate well, but at times, you may need to do some technical steps that you need personal that are comfortable do these steps.
Sometimes it creating a BAQ to analyze the data.
Other times it may require a data fix to be run.

Mandatory reminder that all SaaS is cloud but not all cloud is SaaS. Fixing:

“Now, going to Epicor SaaS will bring about the issue with customizations because of the way Epicor cadence works.”

You can go to the cloud with other 3rd party hosting companies who have a more relaxed update cadence or you can host in the cloud on your own and keep the cadence you’re comfortable with.

And I’m seeing a similar confusion of Kinetic UI with cloud too. While there is a classic client, you’ll be able to run it on prem or in the cloud. Once the classic client is deprecated, SaaS users will lose the classic client first, but other cloud and on-prem users will be able to use it until they want/need to catch up to the current release or switch to another ERP system – which will most likely also be web-based. :person_shrugging:

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Me. This.

Before 2022.2 came out, I kept all my clients on (mostly) Classic, with occasional bursts of Kinetic forms (at least the ones with fewest issues) when convenient. Since 2022.2, I’m going all Kinetic. Keep in mind I deal with end users 95% of the time, who have no idea what BAQ or BPM mean and think a Function is something from Algebra back in middle school. If your USER BASE has been in Epicor for any length of time, this will rock their world to the very core.

USING Epicor, or any other software package, eventually becomes muscle memory. You don’t THINK about what you’re clicking, you just click there and think about what you need to do in that space. Well, we’re moving that space. Sometimes to a whole different screen.

PLEASE don’t forget the folks who actually have to USE this to get their work done.

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We’ve been on SaaS, Public Gov. Cloud specifically, for a few years. I agree with a lot of the feedback so far. My “two cents” is: if you like to stay on the most current version and don’t have any integrations or customizations that require on-prem, go for it. Overall, I’ve been happy with it! Yes, converting experienced users from classic to Kinetic forms or from the smart client to the web client is challenging, but we’re getting there. Introducing new users to the web client is so much nicer, in my opinion.

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Timing is everything, I guess. I got an email notice today that Epicor is having a webinar coming up on April 16 for “first-hand advice from Kinetic Cloud Customers”. I don’t think I’m allowed to post details of it here, but if you’re interested and didn’t get the invite, contact your CAM.

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Not sure why it said 2014, but we’re actually on 10.2.7000 which puts us at around…2018/2019 for that implementation. I had asked about our UI customizations and they’re very few like just some check boxes here and there. There are some SSRS items that are done, but I’ll need to research more about what they’re used for and if there’s anything that was introduced in the latest version of Epicor that can do what those do.