We’ll make you a cool shirt.
4 Likes
That’s what I was getting at here in my post above:
2 Likes
Yep I read that, well said. The more people that chime in and say we will be ditching support after 2028 the better.
3 Likes
Am I the only one who feels that it’s batshit crazy to offer the software to a 3rd party hosting vendor but not the customer?
Is it a matter of infra support?.. because here’s an idea, just dont support that. You dont already.
13 Likes
It’s not the infrastructure; it’s the forced removal of updates and support for perpetual licenses.
2 Likes
Yes this. They don’t care about the hosting. This is purely about forcing everyone to a subscription model.
4 Likes
I guess it’s easier than just saying “pay us double”
6 Likes
I agree with you. I think for them it’s the support model as a whole that they are rethinking. This is my opinion, but I would say being able to simplify the support they provide which could save them money to spend on other things. Not that I agree with the approach thus far.
I understand the idea of it but if we are already going to go to a browser based client, then what difference does it make if it’s served over the intranet or internet? Make it a choice if you want true SaaS and Epicor handles the infrastructure, then go Cloud. Otherwise, I can handle the infrastructure and will host in my own “private cloud” (aka on-prem). It’s why a lot of us love Epicor, because we can own it and control it.
The Cloud hype phase is not over yet (along with AI), who knows where this all lands. As of now, to be in the Cloud is expensive and expensive doesn’t always equate to better. Putting all your eggs in one basket can be a dangerous thing when the basket breaks.
4 Likes
It’s actually the complete opposite. Right now, there are many many customers supporting themselves, without any help at all from Epicor support. Forcing everyone into cloud brings that entire burden onto Epicor support, since nobody will have access to anything anymore.
10 Likes
If I had a dollar for every time I did EVERYTHING possible to AVOID Epicor support, I’d just buy an Epicor cloud license (and pull my hair out waiting on them to fix things).
15 Likes
Are you saying you don’t pay for software maintenance and therefore do not have access to EpicCare? Or you do have that ability, but choose not to use it?
2 Likes
I’m saying that on prem customers, whether or not they are actively paying for support, do ALL of their own system support to keep everything running day to day. That encompasses thousands of tasks per year. If you take away their ability to host themselves, those tasks don’t go away, they become the responsibility of Epicor support.
How does that simplify the support offering? Answer: it doesn’t
6 Likes
While I definitely agree there would be a high revenue consideration behind this change, I also expect there to be many competition and technology reasons too.
Just like is shown in this thread, there are many (but overall, a small vocal percentage) that are still adamant about wanting Epicor to continue supporting WinForms for years to come when the reality is that continued support of WinForms for the few, in the larger context, would naturally limit the evolution and capabilities for the majority now. I know that in addition to there being larger Epicor Kinetic support requirements/complexity to continue WinForms support, there has been many Kinetic improvements and changes deemed not yet practical or possible due to it.
It is certainly a shame that there has been a number of challenges with the Kinetic UI framework implementation but overall, it is a far superior framework in so many aspects and practically from a go-forwards support, competition, and growth perspective, it is the only viable option in my view.
While from a technology perspective, I think there is a couple of elements here. Within controlled Cloud contexts, there is a LOT more flexibility around the deployment and optimization of the stack and also what technologies/tools are used.
From a flexibility around the deployment and optimization perspective, even though I know there are many highly capable Epicor Kinetic administrators, there is still MANY organizations with less capable teams, often unknowingly, who have already run into ‘challenges’ in just understanding the technologies (i.e. lack of SQL Server knowledge) and following the installation manuals and processes for current Kinetic ERP versions. Many who have then often just blamed Epicor for any challenges or issues they encountered. Meaning either branching again between on-premises and Cloud deployment configurations would likely have to happen or there would have to be major considerations and limitations in terms of the deployment and optimization changes…
…which would also include limiting what technologies and tools can be used. With a lot of the industry going SaaS and subscription based, a lot of the best tools and technologies themselves now require subscriptions to implement and use. I know from experience that there has been a number of frameworks, controls, and tools that we have seen and would have loved to have experimented with implementing just to have discovered that due licensing and subscription limitations, we would not be able to from a product distribution/licensing perspective. With more emphasis on being current in the tools and technologies being used for UX and security needs, I could envisage there being lots of potential risks and challenges around indefinitely supporting on-premises installations.
Overall, I don’t like the decision at the moment. Particularly after the contradictory statements made previously. But I am also a little relieved that there is still practically 5+ years until the final crunch time for officially actively supported On-Premise installations and that it was communicated now and not any later.
I do think that there is a little more to it than just the revenue aspect, as per the above, and I do hope that there can be lots of constructive engagement (and resolution) regarding the items that may hold back customers from migrating to Epicor Cloud or affiliated partner clouds. While it has taken a while for some items, I have seen a lot of huge improvements by the various Epicor teams over the last 18 months and do hope that without the Epicor Classic support constraints and many of the major Epicor Cloud improvements now in place, Epicor can continue to, and increase, their development velocity, quality, and rollout of other sought after solutions and improvements.
7 Likes
I’m looking at it from the perspective of:
Beginning in 2030, all customers who remain on-premises will
transition to Sustaining Support, which provides limited technical
and application assistance.
From their perspective, beginning in 2030, Epicor could focus more support resources on Epicor Kinetic. It was the “limited” that led me down that direction of them focusing more internal resources on Kinetic and essentially giving them a way out on supporting older versions.
For the record, we are on-prem, and we do almost ALL of our support internally. I still have to log the occasional ticket with EpicCare, and I would like for it to stay that way.
5 Likes
Sounds like someone who hasn’t been working in application studio recently.. I don’t think very many people see winforms as the future, but it didn’t have to be this bad either 
Epicor knows there are lots of technically minded people here, and we have been given technical reasons for certain changes before directly from devs. I think the lack of that kind of explanation points towards $$$ reasons being the larger motivator..
11 Likes
Salesforce knows how to run SaaS software though. Epicor doesn’t not. I get value in return for a SF SaaS subscription.
Reports work - all the time. Uptime is great. Updates don’t nuke base system functionality. They have an update dashboard the highlights exactly what’s changing. And even highlights what you need to test/change. And it tracks if you’ve tested the changes.
8 Likes