Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements

Yahoo Archive
1
Todd,

Could you explain in greater detail how the XPP machines and the thin
clients were configured? Or, perhaps you have a book, article, or
advertisement which you could reference?

I like the sound of this approach and am considering implementing it
here.

-Daniel Toffolo

--- In vantage@yahoogroups.com, "todd Anderson" <todd.anderson@s...>
wrote:
> Charles,
>
> A few months back I purchased 7 PC's from Dell Financial Services
coming off
> of lease with XP-Pro installed.
>
> On average P1500-P2000 with 512-1000 meg of RAM. These were all
Small form
> factor Dell GX240's.
>
> I setup them up with the normal desktop programs plus Vantage etc.
There
> are a few trick settings you have to watch out for.
>
> Once loaded and configured I stacked them up in my server room with
just
> power cords and network cables. I did have 1
monitor/keyboard/mouse sitting
> next to the stack that I could plug into any of the 7 PCs if I had
to tweak
> them.
>
> Remotes were HP thin clients running CE-net.
>
> Price tag?
>
> 7 PCs with an average price of $ 300 - delivered.
> 7 Thin clients with an average price of $ 350 delivered.
>
> So for $ 4,550 I had 7 thin clients that I could configure any way
I wanted
> without running into weird MS licensing issues or Terminal Server
issues.
> About $ 650 per user which is less then the cost of a new PC.
>
> Over time I could upgrade any of the PCs as required while letting
others
> just get -old-.
>
> For remote sites linking over partial T-1's startup time for
Vantage dropped
> from 4-5 minutes to 8-10 seconds. They were shocked at the speed
increase
> and I no longer had issues with how to support PCs that were 300
miles away.
>
> Mind you - it took me 3 years to get management to even let me try
this ...
>
> I'm sure there is some point where Terminal Services makes economic
sense.
> I'm just not sure where that line is.
>
> This is also an excellent solution to getting PCs out of nasty shop
floor
> situations. The thin clients have no fans or moving parts so they
are
> fairly immune to bad environments.
>
> Todd Anderson
> Anderson Computer Services
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Charles Paluska - HPN
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:53 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
> I'm beginning to think it might be cheaper/better to just have a
rack of XP
> Pro's running remote desktop and round robin DNS.
>
> Charles
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Wojewoda" <twojewoda@p...>
> To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
> > ?
> > Don't worry, I'm sure Epicor has an addisional service that will
provide
> you with a server for a great discounted price of 200% of it shelf
price.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com on behalf of todd Anderson
> > Sent: Thu 8/18/2005 4:20 PM
> > To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
> >
> >
> >
> > Just out of curiosity - how much does it cost for a server with
12 gig of
> > RAM these days?
> >
> > I'm guessing we are talking multiple processors?
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of
> > Chris Robisch
> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:01 PM
> > To: Yahoo Vantage
> > Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
> >
> >
> > Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on
one
> > Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.
> >
> > What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?
> >
> > How many using TS? not using TS? happy?
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
2
Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on one Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.

What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?

How many using TS? not using TS? happy?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3
Just out of curiosity - how much does it cost for a server with 12 gig of
RAM these days?

I'm guessing we are talking multiple processors?

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Chris Robisch
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:01 PM
To: Yahoo Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on one
Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.

What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?

How many using TS? not using TS? happy?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
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upport&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+
database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=UAiQi3Ftbp7Qnq6
ys_yZxg> database software

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_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4
?
Don't worry, I'm sure Epicor has an addisional service that will provide you with a server for a great discounted price of 200% of it shelf price.

________________________________

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com on behalf of todd Anderson
Sent: Thu 8/18/2005 4:20 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements



Just out of curiosity - how much does it cost for a server with 12 gig of
RAM these days?

I'm guessing we are talking multiple processors?

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Chris Robisch
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:01 PM
To: Yahoo Vantage
Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on one
Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.

What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?

How many using TS? not using TS? happy?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




SPONSORED LINKS
Technical
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Technical+support&w1=Technical+support&
w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+databas
e+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=D_JdAFeHAoeH6OugOKk1Yg
> support Vantage
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vantage&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantage
&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+software
&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=8zJYQk3edGWFMUVgup9jKw>
Database
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e&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+softwar
e&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=PnI9nhHllVsjEbHxRXs1IQ>
Database
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Technic
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=fKR9gtx-Yh-
u9MWSh0_-hA> management software Membership
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Technic
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=Nu4StMQZ8LT
26M5TzRGQlg> database software Church
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Church+database+software&w1=Technical+s
upport&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+
database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=UAiQi3Ftbp7Qnq6
ys_yZxg> database software

_____

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* Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage> "
on the web.


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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_____




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
Yahoo! Groups Links











********************
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5
I'm beginning to think it might be cheaper/better to just have a rack of XP
Pro's running remote desktop and round robin DNS.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Wojewoda" <twojewoda@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


> ?
> Don't worry, I'm sure Epicor has an addisional service that will provide
you with a server for a great discounted price of 200% of it shelf price.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com on behalf of todd Anderson
> Sent: Thu 8/18/2005 4:20 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
>
> Just out of curiosity - how much does it cost for a server with 12 gig of
> RAM these days?
>
> I'm guessing we are talking multiple processors?
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
> Chris Robisch
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:01 PM
> To: Yahoo Vantage
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
> Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on one
> Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.
>
> What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?
>
> How many using TS? not using TS? happy?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Technical
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Technical+support&w1=Technical+support&
>
w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+databas
>
e+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=D_JdAFeHAoeH6OugOKk1Yg
> > support Vantage
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vantage&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantage
>
&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+software
> &w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=8zJYQk3edGWFMUVgup9jKw>
> Database
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantag
>
e&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+softwar
> e&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=PnI9nhHllVsjEbHxRXs1IQ>
> Database
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Technic
>
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
>
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=fKR9gtx-Yh-
> u9MWSh0_-hA> management software Membership
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Technic
>
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
>
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=Nu4StMQZ8LT
> 26M5TzRGQlg> database software Church
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Church+database+software&w1=Technical+s
>
upport&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+
>
database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=UAiQi3Ftbp7Qnq6
> ys_yZxg> database software
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "vantage <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage>
"
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:vantage-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ********************
> This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying,
distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any
reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission
in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in
its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
6
Charles,

A few months back I purchased 7 PC's from Dell Financial Services coming off
of lease with XP-Pro installed.

On average P1500-P2000 with 512-1000 meg of RAM. These were all Small form
factor Dell GX240's.

I setup them up with the normal desktop programs plus Vantage etc. There
are a few trick settings you have to watch out for.

Once loaded and configured I stacked them up in my server room with just
power cords and network cables. I did have 1 monitor/keyboard/mouse sitting
next to the stack that I could plug into any of the 7 PCs if I had to tweak
them.

Remotes were HP thin clients running CE-net.

Price tag?

7 PCs with an average price of $ 300 - delivered.
7 Thin clients with an average price of $ 350 delivered.

So for $ 4,550 I had 7 thin clients that I could configure any way I wanted
without running into weird MS licensing issues or Terminal Server issues.
About $ 650 per user which is less then the cost of a new PC.

Over time I could upgrade any of the PCs as required while letting others
just get -old-.

For remote sites linking over partial T-1's startup time for Vantage dropped
from 4-5 minutes to 8-10 seconds. They were shocked at the speed increase
and I no longer had issues with how to support PCs that were 300 miles away.

Mind you - it took me 3 years to get management to even let me try this ...

I'm sure there is some point where Terminal Services makes economic sense.
I'm just not sure where that line is.

This is also an excellent solution to getting PCs out of nasty shop floor
situations. The thin clients have no fans or moving parts so they are
fairly immune to bad environments.

Todd Anderson
Anderson Computer Services

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Charles Paluska - HPN
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:53 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


I'm beginning to think it might be cheaper/better to just have a rack of XP
Pro's running remote desktop and round robin DNS.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Wojewoda" <twojewoda@...>
To: <vantage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


> ?
> Don't worry, I'm sure Epicor has an addisional service that will provide
you with a server for a great discounted price of 200% of it shelf price.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com on behalf of todd Anderson
> Sent: Thu 8/18/2005 4:20 PM
> To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
>
> Just out of curiosity - how much does it cost for a server with 12 gig of
> RAM these days?
>
> I'm guessing we are talking multiple processors?
>
> _____
>
> From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
> Chris Robisch
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:01 PM
> To: Yahoo Vantage
> Subject: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
> Have received advice from Epicor to not put more than 22 users on one
> Terminal Server and it should have 12gig RAM for those 22 users.
>
> What are the recommendations from those running v8 live?
>
> How many using TS? not using TS? happy?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must
have
> already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
> (1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
> Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
> (2) To search through old msg's goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
> (3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Technical
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Technical+support&w1=Technical+support&
> &k=Technical+support&w1=Technical+support&
>
w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+databas
>
e+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=D_JdAFeHAoeH6OugOKk1Yg
> > support Vantage
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vantage&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantage
> &k=Vantage&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantage
>
&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+software
> &w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=8zJYQk3edGWFMUVgup9jKw>
> Database
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantag
> &k=Database&w1=Technical+support&w2=Vantag
>
e&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+database+softwar
> e&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=PnI9nhHllVsjEbHxRXs1IQ>
> Database
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Database+management+software&w1=Technic
> &k=Database+management+software&w1=Technic
>
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
>
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=fKR9gtx-Yh-
> u9MWSh0_-hA> management software Membership
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Membership+database+software&w1=Technic
> &k=Membership+database+software&w1=Technic
>
al+support&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Members
>
hip+database+software&w6=Church+database+software&c=6&s=148&.sig=Nu4StMQZ8LT
> 26M5TzRGQlg> database software Church
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Church+database+software&w1=Technical+s
> &k=Church+database+software&w1=Technical+s
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upport&w2=Vantage&w3=Database&w4=Database+management+software&w5=Membership+
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7
Todd,
Do you have the full vantage server setup on each PC client? If so
doesn't patch admin take a long time?

Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements

Charles,

A few months back I purchased 7 PC's from Dell Financial Services coming
off of lease with XP-Pro installed.

On average P1500-P2000 with 512-1000 meg of RAM. These were all Small
form factor Dell GX240's.

I setup them up with the normal desktop programs plus Vantage etc.
There are a few trick settings you have to watch out for.
8
Charles,

The PCs located in the server room are 100% identical to any other
---desktop--- PC in the office except they are --only-- accessed remotely
from the thin clients.

Actually, I also had PC-Anywhere on them so I could link to them from my
desktop while the remote users were linked via RDP for tech support.

If I had needed to I would have stacked up 20 boxes. Actually, if I had my
choice I'd put ---ALL--- PCs in a room away from the users and give them all
thin clients. That would make maintenance a dream.

It's all about space/heat/electricity vs. 1 or more large servers running
WTS for which you need client licenses.

Replacing 1 or more super servers is expensive. With even 20 PCs stacked up
somewhere with a switch you can upgrade as needed depending on client
requirements.

If I had a choice I would have jumped at doing a PC blade installation. The
problem I had with blades was the $ 700 per blade price tag for P1000
performance. For less then 1/2 that price I doubled the performance.

Aspacia / Michael Barry - Last I knew you folks were selling a PC blade
solution - can you pipe in on general pricing and capabilities of PC blades
instead of WTS ??? When do blades make sense?

Todd Anderson



_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
PLAMAN DICK
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:03 AM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


Todd,
Do you have the full vantage server setup on each PC client? If so
doesn't patch admin take a long time?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9
Todd,

Blade PC's deliver the highest ROI under three scenarios. First, if
it is impractical for users to exist in a thin client deployment
utilizing shared resources. This can occur if an application is prone
to devour client side resources that would drain other users from
needed CPU cycles. A shared resource deployment also suffers from a
single point of failure so if that client side application has, for
example, a memory leak...down goes the whole server. Not so with PC
blades where each user has a dedicated system with physically
separate hardware.

The second scenario is a business requirement for reliability/uptime.
Well engineered PC Blade solutions are not simply a cadre of rack
mounted PC's but are also switching backplanes and a set of
management applications that allow hot swapping a user in real time.
For example, with blade PC systems, let's say a users system becomes
unstable for whatever reason (virus du jour, spyware, fan failure,
etc...) an administrator can simply swap the user profile to another
system using the management software and voila, they're back up in
seconds. The administrator can then address the issue with the faulty
blade and switch the user back when it is resolved. The time and
productivity savings over the typical crash cart visit to the desk
can be significant.

The third scenario is security. By locking all of the hardware in a
secure environment and having a node on the desktop with no
peripheral access it becomes much more difficult to breach the
network both physically and electronically.

Blades also work very well in environments that are typically hostile
to PC's: shop floor, operating rooms, exam rooms, warehouses, etc.
Anywhere that there are physical contaminants or the box would
interfere with the business process (can you see the sys admin coming
into the exam room during an exam...) the blade is a better solution.

So what are the downsides? Well racking up all those P IV's together
in tight proximity generates a significant amount of heat so you have
to make sure that the temperature in your room is adequately
controled and that can be costly. Second, of course, is cost. The
complete Blade PC solution with blade, node, backplane, software, etc
will run about the same as a high end laptop ($1500 - $2500) per
system. The trick is, that they will run 60-80% lower annual
maintenance costs and upwards of 99.999% uptime. Typical ROI
calculations show a 9 to 18 month return compared to standard PC's.

I've blathered on enough so if anyone is interested please feel free
to contact me off list and I'll be happy to get you all of the
information that you want.

Best regards,

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
98 Main Street, Suite 353
Tiburon, CA 94920
415-461-4735
312-803-0730 fax


---- Original Message ----
From: todd.anderson@...
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:24:48 -0500

>Charles,
>
>The PCs located in the server room are 100% identical to any other
>---desktop--- PC in the office except they are --only-- accessed
>remotely
>from the thin clients.
>
>Actually, I also had PC-Anywhere on them so I could link to them from
>my
>desktop while the remote users were linked via RDP for tech support.
>
>If I had needed to I would have stacked up 20 boxes. Actually, if I
>had my
>choice I'd put ---ALL--- PCs in a room away from the users and give
>them all
>thin clients. That would make maintenance a dream.
>
>It's all about space/heat/electricity vs. 1 or more large servers
>running
>WTS for which you need client licenses.
>
>Replacing 1 or more super servers is expensive. With even 20 PCs
>stacked up
>somewhere with a switch you can upgrade as needed depending on client
>requirements.
>
>If I had a choice I would have jumped at doing a PC blade
>installation. The
>problem I had with blades was the $ 700 per blade price tag for P1000
>performance. For less then 1/2 that price I doubled the performance.
>
>Aspacia / Michael Barry - Last I knew you folks were selling a PC
>blade
>solution - can you pipe in on general pricing and capabilities of PC
>blades
>instead of WTS ??? When do blades make sense?
>
>Todd Anderson
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of
>PLAMAN DICK
>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:03 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
>Todd,
>Do you have the full vantage server setup on each PC client? If so
>doesn't patch admin take a long time?
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>--------------------~-->
><font face=arial size=-1><a
>href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hbqmu6q/M=362329.6886308.7839368.
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>/SIG=11dvsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992
>">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk
>back!</a>.</font>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------~
>->
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
10
Does anyone have any hard #'s on WTS solutions for 10/20/30 users?

Prices for servers plus licenses etc ...

What does it end up costing per user?

Looks like the options are
(1) PCs as remotes
(2) PC blade servers
(3) WTS

For companies with remote facilities, especially companies with only a few
remote users, what are you using?

Todd Anderson
Anderson Computer Services

_____

From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Barry
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 3:47 PM
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements


Todd,

Blade PC's deliver the highest ROI under three scenarios. First, if
it is impractical for users to exist in a thin client deployment
utilizing shared resources. This can occur if an application is prone
to devour client side resources that would drain other users from
needed CPU cycles. A shared resource deployment also suffers from a
single point of failure so if that client side application has, for
example, a memory leak...down goes the whole server. Not so with PC
blades where each user has a dedicated system with physically
separate hardware.

The second scenario is a business requirement for reliability/uptime.
Well engineered PC Blade solutions are not simply a cadre of rack
mounted PC's but are also switching backplanes and a set of
management applications that allow hot swapping a user in real time.
For example, with blade PC systems, let's say a users system becomes
unstable for whatever reason (virus du jour, spyware, fan failure,
etc...) an administrator can simply swap the user profile to another
system using the management software and voila, they're back up in
seconds. The administrator can then address the issue with the faulty
blade and switch the user back when it is resolved. The time and
productivity savings over the typical crash cart visit to the desk
can be significant.

The third scenario is security. By locking all of the hardware in a
secure environment and having a node on the desktop with no
peripheral access it becomes much more difficult to breach the
network both physically and electronically.

Blades also work very well in environments that are typically hostile
to PC's: shop floor, operating rooms, exam rooms, warehouses, etc.
Anywhere that there are physical contaminants or the box would
interfere with the business process (can you see the sys admin coming
into the exam room during an exam...) the blade is a better solution.

So what are the downsides? Well racking up all those P IV's together
in tight proximity generates a significant amount of heat so you have
to make sure that the temperature in your room is adequately
controled and that can be costly. Second, of course, is cost. The
complete Blade PC solution with blade, node, backplane, software, etc
will run about the same as a high end laptop ($1500 - $2500) per
system. The trick is, that they will run 60-80% lower annual
maintenance costs and upwards of 99.999% uptime. Typical ROI
calculations show a 9 to 18 month return compared to standard PC's.

I've blathered on enough so if anyone is interested please feel free
to contact me off list and I'll be happy to get you all of the
information that you want.

Best regards,

Michael

Michael Barry
Aspacia Systems Inc
98 Main Street, Suite 353
Tiburon, CA 94920
415-461-4735
312-803-0730 fax


---- Original Message ----
From: todd.anderson@...
To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:24:48 -0500

>Charles,
>
>The PCs located in the server room are 100% identical to any other
>---desktop--- PC in the office except they are --only-- accessed
>remotely
>from the thin clients.
>
>Actually, I also had PC-Anywhere on them so I could link to them from
>my
>desktop while the remote users were linked via RDP for tech support.
>
>If I had needed to I would have stacked up 20 boxes. Actually, if I
>had my
>choice I'd put ---ALL--- PCs in a room away from the users and give
>them all
>thin clients. That would make maintenance a dream.
>
>It's all about space/heat/electricity vs. 1 or more large servers
>running
>WTS for which you need client licenses.
>
>Replacing 1 or more super servers is expensive. With even 20 PCs
>stacked up
>somewhere with a switch you can upgrade as needed depending on client
>requirements.
>
>If I had a choice I would have jumped at doing a PC blade
>installation. The
>problem I had with blades was the $ 700 per blade price tag for P1000
>performance. For less then 1/2 that price I doubled the performance.
>
>Aspacia / Michael Barry - Last I knew you folks were selling a PC
>blade
>solution - can you pipe in on general pricing and capabilities of PC
>blades
>instead of WTS ??? When do blades make sense?
>
>Todd Anderson
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: vantage@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vantage@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of
>PLAMAN DICK
>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:03 AM
>To: vantage@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Vantage] Vantage 8 Terminal Server Requirements
>
>
>Todd,
>Do you have the full vantage server setup on each PC client? If so
>doesn't patch admin take a long time?
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>--------------------~-->
><font face=arial size=-1><a
>href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hbqmu6q/M=362329.6886308.7839368.
>1510227/D=groups/S=1705007183:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1124479469/A=2894321/R=0
>/SIG=11dvsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992
>">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk
>back!</a>.</font>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------~
>->
>
>Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You
>must have already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable
>access. )
>(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder
>and Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
>(2) To search through old msg's goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
>(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Useful links for the Yahoo!Groups Vantage Board are: ( Note: You must have
already linked your email address to a yahoo id to enable access. )
(1) To access the Files Section of our Yahoo!Group for Report Builder and
Crystal Reports and other 'goodies', please goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/files/.
(2) To search through old msg's goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/messages
(3) To view links to Vendors that provide Vantage services goto:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantage/links




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